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CamrnCrz1974
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
Posts: 18371
Location: Phoenix
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 Posted: 02/27/19 1:56 pm ::: |
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| ArtBest23 wrote: |
I think it's a 3 way race, not just 2. I don't know how you can ignore Katie Meier in this discussion with wins over both Notre Dame and Louisville, especially if Miami beats NCSt in their season-ending matchup. I don't think anyone saw that coming. They also beat Cuse and split with FSU, but lost to Clemson. But wins over all of the other of the top 6 in the conference?
A good argument can be made for any of the three, indeed I wrote here in favor of Butler recently. |
ArtBest23, you raise good points about Katie Meier and her candidacy for ACC COY.
It should also be noted that in the five previous seasons (not including 2018-19), Notre Dame went 77-3 in the ACC regular season. The first-ever ACC loss was to Miami (2014-15 season). And in the five seasons (this time including 2018-19) of both Notre Dame and Louisville in the ACC, only two teams have ever defeated both the Irish and Cardinals in the same season -- Wes Moore/NC State in 2016-17 and Katie Meier/Miami in 2018-19.
The ACC preseason polls had Miami 5th (head coaches) or 6th (Blue Ribbon panel) in the ACC. In other words, people expected Miami to be good. But I doubt how many people truly saw Miami with an 11-3 ACC record at this point, with a chance to finish 13-3.
That being said, I am partial to Amanda Butler, whose Clemson squad is 18-10 to date, with an ACC record of 9-6.
--- In the preseason, Clemson was picked to finish 14th in the ACC by the head coaches and 15th in the ACC by the Blue Ribbon panel.
--- The last time Clemson won at least 18 games? 2000-01, under former head coach Jim Davis (he retired after the 2004-05 season).
--- The last time Clemson won at least 9 ACC games? 2001-02, under former head coach Jim Davis (2001-02 was also the last year that Clemson made the NCAA Tournament).
--- Between Davis and Butler, Clemson had three head coaches -- Cristy McKinney, Itoro Umoh-Coleman, and Audra Smith. In five seasons, McKinney went 16–54 in ACC games. In three seasons, Umoh-Coleman had an ACC record of 10-38. And in five years, Smith's conference record was 9-70. In other words, Butler has 9 ACC wins in her first season at the helm of the program, which equals the five years of her predecessor --- and with one conference game remaining.
If Clemson beats Duke -- a team that has defeated Clemson in 22 straight games -- then I think winning 10 conference games after being picked to finish dead last (or second to last) and doing so in the first season as a head coach and for the first time for the program since 2001-02 means that the award should go to Amanda Butler.
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Phil
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
Posts: 1274
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| Posted: 02/27/19 2:43 pm ::: |
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There is always the challenge of whether you reward absolute performance or relative performance.
Both Katie and Amanda have had impressive seasons. I think I agree with you (assuming that this is what you are saying) that Amanda's results exceed expectation more so that Katie, but there's a lot to be said for beating ND and Louisville in the same season.
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ridor
Joined: 18 Oct 2005
Posts: 1055
Location: Frederick, Maryland
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| Posted: 02/27/19 9:47 pm ::: |
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Few thoughts ...
Amanda Butler did do a great job at Clemson. ACC COY goes to her, I bet.
As for my Virginia Cavaliers, the team was depleted and riddled with injuries but the team has better mentality with Tina Thompson on board than with Joanne Boyle. The team has developed the mentality that they can play with anyone else if they wanted to. They are 11-16, 5-9 with two games left: both away at Virginia Tech and at Notre Dame. If they come out 1-1 after the last two games, they would finish the season at 6-10 which is a huge boon considering the fact that they were projected to win only 4 ACC games.
I think in the long run, Tina Thompson is going to do well.
R-
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myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008
Posts: 32335
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| Posted: 02/27/19 11:46 pm ::: |
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| ridor wrote: |
I think in the long run, Tina Thompson is going to do well.
R- |
Hope you're right. It's always hard to pull a 'bottom' team up in a P5 conference. But in the P12 we're seeing it with Utah and Arizona so it certainly is possible.
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if only we’re brave enough to see it.
If only we’re brave enough to be it.
- Amanda Gorman
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PRballer
Joined: 18 Apr 2007
Posts: 2544
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| Posted: 02/28/19 12:17 am ::: |
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| CamrnCrz1974 wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
I think it's a 3 way race, not just 2. I don't know how you can ignore Katie Meier in this discussion with wins over both Notre Dame and Louisville, especially if Miami beats NCSt in their season-ending matchup. I don't think anyone saw that coming. They also beat Cuse and split with FSU, but lost to Clemson. But wins over all of the other of the top 6 in the conference?
A good argument can be made for any of the three, indeed I wrote here in favor of Butler recently. |
ArtBest23, you raise good points about Katie Meier and her candidacy for ACC COY.
It should also be noted that in the five previous seasons (not including 2018-19), Notre Dame went 77-3 in the ACC regular season. The first-ever ACC loss was to Miami (2014-15 season). And in the five seasons (this time including 2018-19) of both Notre Dame and Louisville in the ACC, only two teams have ever defeated both the Irish and Cardinals in the same season -- Wes Moore/NC State in 2016-17 and Katie Meier/Miami in 2018-19.
The ACC preseason polls had Miami 5th (head coaches) or 6th (Blue Ribbon panel) in the ACC. In other words, people expected Miami to be good. But I doubt how many people truly saw Miami with an 11-3 ACC record at this point, with a chance to finish 13-3.
That being said, I am partial to Amanda Butler, whose Clemson squad is 18-10 to date, with an ACC record of 9-6.
--- In the preseason, Clemson was picked to finish 14th in the ACC by the head coaches and 15th in the ACC by the Blue Ribbon panel.
--- The last time Clemson won at least 18 games? 2000-01, under former head coach Jim Davis (he retired after the 2004-05 season).
--- The last time Clemson won at least 9 ACC games? 2001-02, under former head coach Jim Davis (2001-02 was also the last year that Clemson made the NCAA Tournament).
--- Between Davis and Butler, Clemson had three head coaches -- Cristy McKinney, Itoro Umoh-Coleman, and Audra Smith. In five seasons, McKinney went 16–54 in ACC games. In three seasons, Umoh-Coleman had an ACC record of 10-38. And in five years, Smith's conference record was 9-70. In other words, Butler has 9 ACC wins in her first season at the helm of the program, which equals the five years of her predecessor --- and with one conference game remaining.
If Clemson beats Duke -- a team that has defeated Clemson in 22 straight games -- then I think winning 10 conference games after being picked to finish dead last (or second to last) and doing so in the first season as a head coach and for the first time for the program since 2001-02 means that the award should go to Amanda Butler. |
I’m with you on Butler and I predict them to beat Duke and make the NCAAs. Think their guard play is going to wear down the depleted Blue Devils.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 14550
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| Posted: 02/28/19 1:16 pm ::: |
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I certainly don't have any problem with Butler. A couple weeks ago I posted:
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| Amanda Butler may deserve to be coach of the year, BTW. What a turnaround job she has done at Clemson. Big win over FSU tonight. |
I think all three of Butler, Moore and Meier are deserving and I wouldn't complain about any of them. I'd just point out, though, that these coaches- or press-voted _OY awards are fraught with politics and school/geographic biases, and generally are weighted towards winning records. Being the "new girl on the block" from the SEC, and the least successful in absolute terms, may both work against Butler's selection.
I just thought Meier needed to be included in the discussion.
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CamrnCrz1974
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
Posts: 18371
Location: Phoenix
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| Posted: 03/04/19 12:54 pm ::: |
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Attendance numbers (overall games) for the ACC this year:
ACC Mean (average): 3027
ACC Median (middle value): 2417
ACC Range (difference between largest and smallest): 8768
ACC Attendance numbers excluding Notre Dame and Louisville:
Mean (average): 2121
Median (middle value): 1717
Range (difference between largest and smallest): 2804
NOTES:
--- In terms of total overall numbers, Notre Dame and Louisville accounted for 38.87 percent of ACC attendance this year.
--- Despite Duke's worst record since 1992-1993, the Blue Devils rank third in ACC attendance with 3883 per game (bolstered by a sellout crowd -- 9,314 -- against UNC in the season finale).
-- Miami, NC State, and Syracuse will all finish the regular season being ranked in the Top 25, yet collectively averaged 2322 fans per game.
http://theacc.com/documents/2018/11/17//ACC_WBB_STATS.pdf
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CamrnCrz1974
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
Posts: 18371
Location: Phoenix
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| Posted: 03/04/19 1:03 pm ::: |
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ASSIST/TURNOVER RATIO (ACC players, Overall Games)
1. Jackie Young (Notre Dame) -- 2.7 (150 assists, 56 turnovers)
2. Tiana Mangakahia (Syracuse) -- 2.2 (243 assists, 109 turnovers)
Jackie Young came into South Bend as an athletic off-guard with an incredible ability to score and manufacture points (without necessarily being a playmaker or outside shooter). She became Indiana's all-time high school scoring record holder (boys or girls) during her senior season.
And in her first full season as Notre Dame's point guard, she averaged 5.17 assists per game with an A/TO ratio of 2.7-to-1.
Yes, Young played with very good players - Mabrey, Ogunbowale, Shepherd, and Turner who could score and had the ability to take over games when needed. But Young put those players in the best position to score and be dominant.
With those four aforementioned players graduating, it will be interesting to see of Young plays PG next year or if she will be a primary scorer and secondary facilitator, as ND will have a relatively young and inexperienced lineup next year.
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CBiebel
Joined: 23 Dec 2004
Posts: 1055
Location: PA
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| Posted: 03/09/19 4:52 am ::: |
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I saw this and figured this would be the most appropriate thread for it:
Marina Mabrey rooting for her sister's Va Tech team:
https://twitter.com/foxsportssouth/status/1103815526147653634?s=21
BTW, it was a ND NC winner interviewing a ND NC winner. Kelly Deyo used to be known as Kelly Siemon, the PF from ND's 2001 squad.
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Ex-Ref
Joined: 04 Oct 2009
Posts: 8939
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| Posted: 03/09/19 9:50 am ::: |
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| CBiebel wrote: |
I saw this and figured this would be the most appropriate thread for it:
Marina Mabrey rooting for her sister's Va Tech team:
https://twitter.com/foxsportssouth/status/1103815526147653634?s=21
BTW, it was a ND NC winner interviewing a ND NC winner. Kelly Deyo used to be known as Kelly Siemon, the PF from ND's 2001 squad. |
Kelley is my all-time favorite ND player.
_________________
"Women are judged on their success, men on their potential. It’s time we started believing in the potential of women." —Muffet McGraw
“Thank you for showing the fellas that you've got more balls than them,” Haley said, to cheers from the crowd.
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