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538 on women's basketball's dynasties

 
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ClayK



Joined: 11 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: 03/07/19 11:02 am    ::: 538 on women's basketball's dynasties Reply Reply with quote

Interesting stuff ...

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/louisiana-tech-was-the-uconn-of-the-80s/



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linkster



Joined: 27 Jul 2012
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PostPosted: 03/07/19 11:25 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

It's a nice read. Of course what it measures isn't the actual strength of these programs but their RPI numbers, at least in the RPI era.
I would love to see a ranking of the actual budgets of programs, which I think would correlate with their levels of success. Woman's basketball state used to list the wbb budget for teams but no longer. I suspect that the fall of programs like La Tech had a lot to do with them not having the resources to give players top notch living arrangements, extensive tutoring services, chartered flights to games around the country and multi-million dollar salaries for their coaches. Tenn used to outspend everyone else by a large amount. I also think that Tenn still offers a great deal to recruits. It would explain how a clueless coach like Warlick still attracts top ranked HS players.


calbearman76



Joined: 02 Nov 2009
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PostPosted: 03/07/19 1:25 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

linkster wrote:
It's a nice read. Of course what it measures isn't the actual strength of these programs but their RPI numbers, at least in the RPI era.
I would love to see a ranking of the actual budgets of programs, which I think would correlate with their levels of success. Woman's basketball state used to list the wbb budget for teams but no longer. I suspect that the fall of programs like La Tech had a lot to do with them not having the resources to give players top notch living arrangements, extensive tutoring services, chartered flights to games around the country and multi-million dollar salaries for their coaches. Tenn used to outspend everyone else by a large amount. I also think that Tenn still offers a great deal to recruits. It would explain how a clueless coach like Warlick still attracts top ranked HS players.


Actually I suspect you have it backwards. I don't think it had to do with Louisiana Tech spending less but rather so ma y power 5 conferences spending more. Whether it is La Tech, Old Dominion or Cheney St, their success was made in the earlier years when no one was spending on the sport. They were able to establish success and maintain it because they were able to recruit based on that success. Once the larger schools at least started devoting some resources to the sport they were able to overwhelm the schools with much more limited overall sports budgets.


linkster



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PostPosted: 03/07/19 1:45 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

calbearman76 wrote:
linkster wrote:
It's a nice read. Of course what it measures isn't the actual strength of these programs but their RPI numbers, at least in the RPI era.
I would love to see a ranking of the actual budgets of programs, which I think would correlate with their levels of success. Woman's basketball state used to list the wbb budget for teams but no longer. I suspect that the fall of programs like La Tech had a lot to do with them not having the resources to give players top notch living arrangements, extensive tutoring services, chartered flights to games around the country and multi-million dollar salaries for their coaches. Tenn used to outspend everyone else by a large amount. I also think that Tenn still offers a great deal to recruits. It would explain how a clueless coach like Warlick still attracts top ranked HS players.


Actually I suspect you have it backwards. I don't think it had to do with Louisiana Tech spending less but rather so ma y power 5 conferences spending more. Whether it is La Tech, Old Dominion or Cheney St, their success was made in the earlier years when no one was spending on the sport. They were able to establish success and maintain it because they were able to recruit based on that success. Once the larger schools at least started devoting some resources to the sport they were able to overwhelm the schools with much more limited overall sports budgets.


You got it right. But isn't the rise and fall of dynasties more to do with the arrival and departure of outstanding coaches? If Barmore was in his prime today he wouldn't be at LAT. They couldn't afford him. Instead they got Summitt Jr. Back in the 80's virtually nobody got rich coaching women. Today we have Geno, who started in 1985 for 25K, making a couple of million if you count his outside income.


calbearman76



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PostPosted: 03/07/19 3:46 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I agree. Wendy Larry kept the ODU program at a fairly high level, not quite nationally relevant but a perennial conference winner. Once she left ODU quickly sank.


CamrnCrz1974



Joined: 18 Nov 2004
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PostPosted: 03/07/19 3:55 pm    ::: Re: 538 on women's basketball's dynasties Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
Interesting stuff ...

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/louisiana-tech-was-the-uconn-of-the-80s/


This was a very interesting article. I always love FiveThirtyEight's use of polling data and statistics for politics. And they have had good articles about sports and the use of analytics.

It is good to see FiveThirtyEight have a prominent feature on women's basketball in advance of the NCAAT.


summertime blues



Joined: 16 Apr 2013
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PostPosted: 03/07/19 4:28 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

calbearman76 wrote:
I agree. Wendy Larry kept the ODU program at a fairly high level, not quite nationally relevant but a perennial conference winner. Once she left ODU quickly sank.


What happened at ODU had a lot to do with the AD, Wood Selig, who decided that WBB just wasn’t a priority. Because of that, ODU started sliding before Wendy left, but he managed to see to it that she was blamed for it. He hired Karen Barefoot, who managed to let it go downhill further before being fired. Apparently there was a lot of pressure from alumni after that which forced more emphasis on WBB again and that was behind the hiring of Nikki McCray-Penson. I don’t know that she’ll be able to get the program anywhere near back to its former glory, but in two years, starting almost literally from nothing, she’s made it respectable.



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