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cthskzfn
Joined: 21 Nov 2004 Posts: 12851 Location: In a world where a PSYCHOpath like Trump isn't potus.
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myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008 Posts: 32335
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Posted: 02/15/19 11:10 pm ::: |
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pilight wrote: |
UConn ... Their resume is only marginally better than NC State. If the Pack beat Notre Dame this weekend, it will take some serious contortions of logic to keep the Hussies ahead of them. |
Pilight baby, this made me snort my tea.
I do agree however if the Pack beat ND this weekend, they are a helluva lot better than I think they are. They've lost three starters after all, so actually the fact that they've done as well as they have recently is close to miraculous.
_________________ For there is always light,
if only we’re brave enough to see it.
If only we’re brave enough to be it.
- Amanda Gorman
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CBiebel
Joined: 23 Dec 2004 Posts: 1055 Location: PA
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Posted: 02/16/19 5:01 am ::: |
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Nixtreefan wrote: |
Oh boy try not to sound more biased. I like your enthusiasm though.
The way things are going Miss St should only drop 1 spot as their loss is not as bad as NDs losses. However it was at home but I still don't think it will be more than a one spot drop. It will really get interesting if Louisville loses. Baylor and Uconn will stay where they are in the top 4 barring a disastrous loss and if top 4 win out they will stay the same. |
Which do you consider more important, 2 losses to teams ranked #21 and #30 in the RPI or wins against teams currently ranked #2, #8, #9, #13, #14, and #21?
Or is it better for a team to lose only to the #1 and #2 team, but only beat #6 and #11?
Which matters more, the number of losses, or the number of wins against top 25 teams? Head to head (one game, early in the season, with a key starter just coming off injury) or an overall season record?
ND lost at UNC and Miami ( both teams in the top 30 of RPI which is why Creme said they weren't "bad losses").
UConn won by just 10 against #94 RPI SJU and #157 Oklahoma by just 9, I'm not sure the lack of ranked opponents can be ignored. If those two teams were top 30 caliber teams would UConn have won those games?
ND's losses were to all top 30 RPI teams (ND is 7-3 vs top 30 RPI opponents). UConn has had only 5 games against top 30 RPI opponents, and they're 3-2 in those games (and 2 of those wins were home games, while 4 of ND's 7 wins were at home).
So the basic question is, do you count losses more than number of top level wins? Which is more important?
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Nixtreefan
Joined: 14 Nov 2012 Posts: 2539
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linkster
Joined: 27 Jul 2012 Posts: 5423
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Posted: 02/16/19 5:56 pm ::: |
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CBiebel wrote: |
Nixtreefan wrote: |
Oh boy try not to sound more biased. I like your enthusiasm though.
The way things are going Miss St should only drop 1 spot as their loss is not as bad as NDs losses. However it was at home but I still don't think it will be more than a one spot drop. It will really get interesting if Louisville loses. Baylor and Uconn will stay where they are in the top 4 barring a disastrous loss and if top 4 win out they will stay the same. |
Which do you consider more important, 2 losses to teams ranked #21 and #30 in the RPI or wins against teams currently ranked #2, #8, #9, #13, #14, and #21?
Or is it better for a team to lose only to the #1 and #2 team, but only beat #6 and #11?
Which matters more, the number of losses, or the number of wins against top 25 teams? Head to head (one game, early in the season, with a key starter just coming off injury) or an overall season record?
ND lost at UNC and Miami ( both teams in the top 30 of RPI which is why Creme said they weren't "bad losses").
UConn won by just 10 against #94 RPI SJU and #157 Oklahoma by just 9, I'm not sure the lack of ranked opponents can be ignored. If those two teams were top 30 caliber teams would UConn have won those games?
ND's losses were to all top 30 RPI teams (ND is 7-3 vs top 30 RPI opponents). UConn has had only 5 games against top 30 RPI opponents, and they're 3-2 in those games (and 2 of those wins were home games, while 4 of ND's 7 wins were at home).
So the basic question is, do you count losses more than number of top level wins? Which is more important? |
Too bad UNC & Miami aren't in the AAC, then I'm sure UConn would have had a dozen more losses in the last 5 years or so.
I think you could sell air conditioners at the south pole.
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linkster
Joined: 27 Jul 2012 Posts: 5423
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Posted: 02/16/19 6:28 pm ::: |
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You use a game against UNC to make your point? They may be an RPI 30 team but that only proves the bias of the RPI. Massey has UNC at No. 43, 2 slots BELOW No 41 U of Central Fla., whom most here consider a cupcake team on UConn's schedule.
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Davis4632
Joined: 14 Jul 2014 Posts: 861
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Posted: 02/17/19 4:51 pm ::: |
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Maybe Notre Dame should moved to the MAC and keep their same non schedule. It looks like Miami is going to beat ND and Louisville in the same season. The pro-UConn/anti-ND crowd can spin the AAC as a defacto power conference until the cows come and I won't be convinced.
Last edited by Davis4632 on 02/17/19 5:20 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 66896 Location: Where the action is
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Nixtreefan
Joined: 14 Nov 2012 Posts: 2539
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Posted: 02/17/19 7:29 pm ::: |
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Actually, I think it would be harder and it probably hurts more than helps.
_________________ "White privilege is unseen by white pompous asses"
Feelings, nothing more than feelings...
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SDHoops
Joined: 09 Nov 2007 Posts: 1183
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Posted: 02/18/19 3:09 am ::: |
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You know, a lot of schools did some dickhead things to put the UConn hoops teams in the situation they are in..yet the women are still a top 5 team. People are here acting like Geno and crew want to be in the AAC and that it was a preference..oh please! & just FYI, UConn still did this to the former Big East teams and it was the SEC who bragged saying UConn wasn't in a competitive league. Where UConn is now conference-wise, is by design from other ppl to hurt them. If UConn wins it all this year, it will definitely be an underdog story..so stfu some of you UND a** kissers!
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CBiebel
Joined: 23 Dec 2004 Posts: 1055 Location: PA
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Posted: 02/18/19 4:35 am ::: |
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linkster wrote: |
CBiebel wrote: |
Nixtreefan wrote: |
Oh boy try not to sound more biased. I like your enthusiasm though.
The way things are going Miss St should only drop 1 spot as their loss is not as bad as NDs losses. However it was at home but I still don't think it will be more than a one spot drop. It will really get interesting if Louisville loses. Baylor and Uconn will stay where they are in the top 4 barring a disastrous loss and if top 4 win out they will stay the same. |
Which do you consider more important, 2 losses to teams ranked #21 and #30 in the RPI or wins against teams currently ranked #2, #8, #9, #13, #14, and #21?
Or is it better for a team to lose only to the #1 and #2 team, but only beat #6 and #11?
Which matters more, the number of losses, or the number of wins against top 25 teams? Head to head (one game, early in the season, with a key starter just coming off injury) or an overall season record?
ND lost at UNC and Miami ( both teams in the top 30 of RPI which is why Creme said they weren't "bad losses").
UConn won by just 10 against #94 RPI SJU and #157 Oklahoma by just 9, I'm not sure the lack of ranked opponents can be ignored. If those two teams were top 30 caliber teams would UConn have won those games?
ND's losses were to all top 30 RPI teams (ND is 7-3 vs top 30 RPI opponents). UConn has had only 5 games against top 30 RPI opponents, and they're 3-2 in those games (and 2 of those wins were home games, while 4 of ND's 7 wins were at home).
So the basic question is, do you count losses more than number of top level wins? Which is more important? |
Too bad UNC & Miami aren't in the AAC, then I'm sure UConn would have had a dozen more losses in the last 5 years or so.
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No, but they might have ended up with a couple more losses this year, which is what is being discussed, not previous years. In previous years UConn had #1 or #2 RPI and had an SOS that was much better. This year that isn't the case. In previous years UConn wasn't 1-2 vs top 10 teams.
And for the record, you're reading too much into my post. I wasn't actually taking a position one way or the other. I was just pointing out the different perspectives. Which do you value more, the losses or the wins? I wasn't promoting either position, just pointing out different ways of looking at the situation.
My actual position is that there are way too many games to be played for us to really make this decision. You never know if a team like, say, Louisville, might lose a game to a team like, say, Miami...
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Davis4632
Joined: 14 Jul 2014 Posts: 861
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Posted: 02/18/19 7:28 am ::: |
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SDHoops wrote: |
You know, a lot of schools did some dickhead things to put the UConn hoops teams in the situation they are in..yet the women are still a top 5 team. People are here acting like Geno and crew want to be in the AAC and that it was a preference..oh please! & just FYI, UConn still did this to the former Big East teams and it was the SEC who bragged saying UConn wasn't in a competitive league. Where UConn is now conference-wise, is by design from other ppl to hurt them. If UConn wins it all this year, it will definitely be an underdog story..so stfu some of you UND a** kissers! |
UConn was also at fault for the position they're in conference wise.
https://www.courant.com/sports/uconn-huskies/hc-xpm-2012-12-22-hc-what-happened-to-uconn-1219-20121221-story.html
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bballjunkie
Joined: 12 Aug 2014 Posts: 785
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Posted: 02/18/19 11:05 am ::: |
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[quote="CBiebel"][quote="linkster"][quote="CBiebel"][quote="Nixtreefan"]Oh boy try not to sound more biased. I like your enthusiasm though.
The way things are going Miss St should only drop 1 spot as their loss is not as bad as NDs losses. However it was at home but I still don't think it will be more than a one spot drop. It will really get interesting if Louisville loses. Baylor and Uconn will stay where they are in the top 4 barring a disastrous loss and if top 4 win out they will stay the same.[/quote]
Which do you consider more important, 2 losses to teams ranked #21 and #30 in the RPI or wins against teams currently ranked #2, #8, #9, #13, #14, and #21?
Or is it better for a team to lose only to the #1 and #2 team, but only beat #6 and #11?
Which matters more, the number of losses, or the number of wins against top 25 teams? Head to head (one game, early in the season, with a key starter just coming off injury) or an overall season record?
ND lost at UNC and Miami ( both teams in the top 30 of RPI which is why Creme said they weren't "bad losses").
UConn won by just 10 against #94 RPI SJU and #157 Oklahoma by just 9, I'm not sure the lack of ranked opponents can be ignored. If those two teams were top 30 caliber teams would UConn have won those games?
ND's losses were to all top 30 RPI teams (ND is 7-3 vs top 30 RPI opponents). UConn has had only 5 games against top 30 RPI opponents, and they're 3-2 in those games (and 2 of those wins were home games, while 4 of ND's 7 wins were at home).
So the basic question is, do you count losses more than number of top level wins? Which is more important?[/quote]
Too bad UNC & Miami aren't in the AAC, then I'm sure UConn would have had a dozen more losses in the last 5 years or so.
[/quote]
No, but they might have ended up with a couple more losses [b][i]this [/i][/b]year, which is what is being discussed, not previous years. In previous years UConn had #1 or #2 RPI and had an SOS that was much better. This year that isn't the case. In previous years UConn wasn't 1-2 vs top 10 teams.
And for the record, you're reading too much into my post. I wasn't actually taking a position one way or the other. I was just pointing out the different perspectives. Which do you value more, the losses or the wins? I wasn't promoting either position, just pointing out different ways of looking at the situation.
My actual position is that there are way too many games to be played for us to really make this decision. You never know if a team like, say, Louisville, might lose a game to a team like, say, Miami... [/quote]
Losses to top 10 teams LOL, did Louisville and Baylor suddenly drop out of the top positions, keep trying though if you think a loss to UNC is like a loss on the road to top 5 teams. Now if you looked at what has happened this year as no one could have predicted that a lot of teams especially in the 7 to 25 range and more were going to lose on the regular, which messes with everyone s SOS, then I would understand.
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013 Posts: 7821 Location: Shenandoah Valley
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Posted: 02/18/19 11:06 am ::: |
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Davis4632 wrote: |
SDHoops wrote: |
You know, a lot of schools did some dickhead things to put the UConn hoops teams in the situation they are in..yet the women are still a top 5 team. People are here acting like Geno and crew want to be in the AAC and that it was a preference..oh please! & just FYI, UConn still did this to the former Big East teams and it was the SEC who bragged saying UConn wasn't in a competitive league. Where UConn is now conference-wise, is by design from other ppl to hurt them. If UConn wins it all this year, it will definitely be an underdog story..so stfu some of you UND a** kissers! |
UConn was also at fault for the position they're in conference wise.
https://www.courant.com/sports/uconn-huskies/hc-xpm-2012-12-22-hc-what-happened-to-uconn-1219-20121221-story.html |
This ^^^^^^^^
_________________ Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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Nixtreefan
Joined: 14 Nov 2012 Posts: 2539
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Posted: 02/18/19 11:11 am ::: |
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I'm confused I thought this was women's basketball forum.
Looking forward to todays polling shenanigans.
_________________ "White privilege is unseen by white pompous asses"
Feelings, nothing more than feelings...
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linkster
Joined: 27 Jul 2012 Posts: 5423
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Posted: 02/18/19 11:37 am ::: |
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CBiebel wrote: |
No, but they might have ended up with a couple more losses this year, which is what is being discussed, not previous years. In previous years UConn had #1 or #2 RPI and had an SOS that was much better. This year that isn't the case. In previous years UConn wasn't 1-2 vs top 10 teams.
And for the record, you're reading too much into my post. I wasn't actually taking a position one way or the other. I was just pointing out the different perspectives. Which do you value more, the losses or the wins? I wasn't promoting either position, just pointing out different ways of looking at the situation.
My actual position is that there are way too many games to be played for us to really make this decision. You never know if a team like, say, Louisville, might lose a game to a team like, say, Miami... |
LOL If you weren't taking a position then you fooled me. I didn't see but one perspective.
Quote: |
"but they might have ended up with a couple more losses" |
When was the last time UConn lost to a non-top 10 team? ans: 2012, St Johns. 7 years to the day. So yeah, "they might", but you are drawing conclusions based on speculation and I ain't no lawyer but I don't think that's real evidence.
UConn titles vs the rest of wcbb over the last 10 years - 6-4. That's evidence.
NC's in the last 10 years.
AAC - SIX
B12 - TWO
ACC - ONE
SEC - ONE
P12 - ZERO
And all this from what I read here is a pathetic conference. LOL The rest of you can go back to talking about the "competitive balance" in your conferences. Personally, I'm a UConn fan, not an AAC fan, and since like most UConn fans I can't remember the plenitude of conference regular and post season titles I do not care. Take it from someone who knows, winning titles loses it's excitement value after a while and it starts being a standard by which a good season is measured.
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Davis4632
Joined: 14 Jul 2014 Posts: 861
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Posted: 02/18/19 2:25 pm ::: |
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linkster wrote: |
CBiebel wrote: |
No, but they might have ended up with a couple more losses this year, which is what is being discussed, not previous years. In previous years UConn had #1 or #2 RPI and had an SOS that was much better. This year that isn't the case. In previous years UConn wasn't 1-2 vs top 10 teams.
And for the record, you're reading too much into my post. I wasn't actually taking a position one way or the other. I was just pointing out the different perspectives. Which do you value more, the losses or the wins? I wasn't promoting either position, just pointing out different ways of looking at the situation.
My actual position is that there are way too many games to be played for us to really make this decision. You never know if a team like, say, Louisville, might lose a game to a team like, say, Miami... |
LOL If you weren't taking a position then you fooled me. I didn't see but one perspective.
Quote: |
"but they might have ended up with a couple more losses" |
When was the last time UConn lost to a non-top 10 team? ans: 2012, St Johns. 7 years to the day. So yeah, "they might", but you are drawing conclusions based on speculation and I ain't no lawyer but I don't think that's real evidence.
UConn titles vs the rest of wcbb over the last 10 years - 6-4. That's evidence.
NC's in the last 10 years.
AAC - SIX
B12 - TWO
ACC - ONE
SEC - ONE
P12 - ZERO
And all this from what I read here is a pathetic conference. LOL The rest of you can go back to talking about the "competitive balance" in your conferences. Personally, I'm a UConn fan, not an AAC fan, and since like most UConn fans I can't remember the plenitude of conference regular and post season titles I do not care. Take it from someone who knows, winning titles loses it's excitement value after a while and it starts being a standard by which a good season is measured. |
I couldn't tell if you were just a UConn fan only or not considering you prop up other AAC teams over P5 schools. I bet UConn would the drop the AAC like a hot potato if the any of those inferior P5 conferences ever send them an invite to join them. They might would turn down a PAC12 (a conference that hasn't won an NC in WBB since grunge music was relevant) invite because of the logisitcs but desparate times cause for desparate measures.
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linkster
Joined: 27 Jul 2012 Posts: 5423
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Posted: 02/18/19 3:13 pm ::: |
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Davis4632 wrote: |
linkster wrote: |
CBiebel wrote: |
No, but they might have ended up with a couple more losses this year, which is what is being discussed, not previous years. In previous years UConn had #1 or #2 RPI and had an SOS that was much better. This year that isn't the case. In previous years UConn wasn't 1-2 vs top 10 teams.
And for the record, you're reading too much into my post. I wasn't actually taking a position one way or the other. I was just pointing out the different perspectives. Which do you value more, the losses or the wins? I wasn't promoting either position, just pointing out different ways of looking at the situation.
My actual position is that there are way too many games to be played for us to really make this decision. You never know if a team like, say, Louisville, might lose a game to a team like, say, Miami... |
LOL If you weren't taking a position then you fooled me. I didn't see but one perspective.
Quote: |
"but they might have ended up with a couple more losses" |
When was the last time UConn lost to a non-top 10 team? ans: 2012, St Johns. 7 years to the day. So yeah, "they might", but you are drawing conclusions based on speculation and I ain't no lawyer but I don't think that's real evidence.
UConn titles vs the rest of wcbb over the last 10 years - 6-4. That's evidence.
NC's in the last 10 years.
AAC - SIX
B12 - TWO
ACC - ONE
SEC - ONE
P12 - ZERO
And all this from what I read here is a pathetic conference. LOL The rest of you can go back to talking about the "competitive balance" in your conferences. Personally, I'm a UConn fan, not an AAC fan, and since like most UConn fans I can't remember the plenitude of conference regular and post season titles I do not care. Take it from someone who knows, winning titles loses it's excitement value after a while and it starts being a standard by which a good season is measured. |
I couldn't tell if you were just a UConn fan only or not considering you prop up other AAC teams over P5 schools. I bet UConn would the drop the AAC like a hot potato if the any of those inferior P5 conferences ever send them an invite to join them. They might would turn down a PAC12 (a conference that hasn't won an NC in WBB since grunge music was relevant) invite because of the logisitcs but desparate times cause for desparate measures. |
You are believing Art's "fake news". Like most every UConn fan, I would rather be kicking Duke's and UNC's ass's than Tulsa and Wichita St.
As for the top 16, a 1 or a 2 makes little difference.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013 Posts: 14550
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Posted: 02/18/19 6:44 pm ::: |
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bballjunkie wrote: |
So the basic question is, do you count losses more than number of top level wins? Which is more important? |
The committees, men's and women's, have consistently said for many years that good wins count more than losses, good or bad. They have said they want to know that a team has the capability to win tournament games against good teams far more than they worry about upset losses.
They also say that they pay attention and discount losses that occurred when key players (such as Jackie Young vs UNC) were missing, at least if those players are back healthy for the tournament.
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bballjunkie
Joined: 12 Aug 2014 Posts: 785
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Posted: 02/18/19 6:50 pm ::: |
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Really. Please provide those years of comments and include the one where they are talking about your team.
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Davis4632
Joined: 14 Jul 2014 Posts: 861
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Posted: 02/18/19 8:05 pm ::: |
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ArtBest23 wrote: |
bballjunkie wrote: |
So the basic question is, do you count losses more than number of top level wins? Which is more important? |
The committees, men's and women's, have consistently said for many years that good wins count more than losses, good or bad. They have said they want to know that a team has the capability to win tournament games against good teams far more than they worry about upset losses.
They also say that they pay attention and discount losses that occurred when key players (such as Jackie Young vs UNC) were missing, at least if those players are back healthy for the tournament. |
I remember in 2000, The NCCA dropped Cincinnati as an 1 seed because their star player Kenyon Martin broke his leg in the Conference USA tournament.
https://www.deseretnews.com/article/748834/Arizona-stays-as-No-1-seed-but-key-injury-costs-Cincinnati.html
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 66896 Location: Where the action is
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Posted: 02/18/19 8:22 pm ::: |
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Davis4632 wrote: |
ArtBest23 wrote: |
bballjunkie wrote: |
So the basic question is, do you count losses more than number of top level wins? Which is more important? |
The committees, men's and women's, have consistently said for many years that good wins count more than losses, good or bad. They have said they want to know that a team has the capability to win tournament games against good teams far more than they worry about upset losses.
They also say that they pay attention and discount losses that occurred when key players (such as Jackie Young vs UNC) were missing, at least if those players are back healthy for the tournament. |
I remember in 2000, The NCCA dropped Cincinnati as an 1 seed because their star player Kenyon Martin broke his leg in the Conference USA tournament.
https://www.deseretnews.com/article/748834/Arizona-stays-as-No-1-seed-but-key-injury-costs-Cincinnati.html |
OTOH, in 1998 they didn't drop Stanford despite them losing two of their top players, including leading scorer Kristin Folkl
_________________ I'm a lonely frog
I ain't got a home
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013 Posts: 14550
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Posted: 02/18/19 8:55 pm ::: |
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Davis4632 wrote: |
ArtBest23 wrote: |
bballjunkie wrote: |
So the basic question is, do you count losses more than number of top level wins? Which is more important? |
The committees, men's and women's, have consistently said for many years that good wins count more than losses, good or bad. They have said they want to know that a team has the capability to win tournament games against good teams far more than they worry about upset losses.
They also say that they pay attention and discount losses that occurred when key players (such as Jackie Young vs UNC) were missing, at least if those players are back healthy for the tournament. |
I remember in 2000, The NCCA dropped Cincinnati as an 1 seed because their star player Kenyon Martin broke his leg in the Conference USA tournament.
https://www.deseretnews.com/article/748834/Arizona-stays-as-No-1-seed-but-key-injury-costs-Cincinnati.html |
Right, because Martin was done for the year and would not be available in the NCAA tournament. If it had been a one week injury, they likely would have remained a 1. But without Martin they didnt deserve a 1 and indeed lost in the 2nd round.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013 Posts: 14550
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Posted: 02/18/19 9:31 pm ::: |
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So UConn has 2 wins vs the AP top 25 - nos. 5 and 13.
Miss St has 5 - nos. 11, 13, 16, 19 and 21.
Louisville has 5 - nos. 3, 16, 17, 18, and 22.
Oregon has 5 - nos. 6, 7, 12, 17, and 18, and could get another against 12 tonight.
Stanford has 3 - nos. 1, 12 and 17.
Notre Dame has 8 - nos. 4, 9, 10, 11, 12, 15, 22 and 24.
In the rest of the season and conference tournament, ND will likely play three more ranked teams, as likely will Louisville, Stanford, and Oregon. Miss St will likely play two more. UConn will play none.
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patsweetpat
Joined: 14 Jul 2010 Posts: 2313 Location: Culver City, CA
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Posted: 02/18/19 10:03 pm ::: |
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ArtBest23 wrote: |
So UConn has 2 wins vs the AP top 25 - nos. 5 and 13.
Miss St has 5 - nos. 11, 13, 16, 19 and 21.
Louisville has 5 - nos. 3, 16, 17, 18, and 22.
Oregon has 5 - nos. 6, 7, 12, 17, and 18, and could get another against 12 tonight.
Stanford has 3 - nos. 1, 12 and 17.
Notre Dame has 8 - nos. 4, 9, 10, 11, 12, 15, 22 and 24.
In the rest of the season and conference tournament, ND will likely play three more ranked teams, as likely will Louisville, Stanford, and Oregon. Miss St will likely play two more. UConn will play none. |
Pretty sure the committee doesn't look at AP rankings, Art.
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