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calbearman76



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PostPosted: 02/10/19 1:21 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Unless Charles wants out of New York I can't understand the Liberty going with anything but a big. I actually prefer McGowan to Brown, but either way getting a big to take the defensive burden off of Charles makes the most sense.


root_thing



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PostPosted: 02/10/19 3:16 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

calbearman76 wrote:
Unless Charles wants out of New York I can't understand the Liberty going with anything but a big. I actually prefer McGowan to Brown, but either way getting a big to take the defensive burden off of Charles makes the most sense.


I agree. Beyond what a big post can bring in terms of production, she will help remove some of the burden from Tina -- both in terms of playing responsibilities and physical pounding. For old-time NY basketball fans, think of what Charles Oakley did for Patrick Ewing. Oakley provided a lot of the rebounding, and he banged on opposing post players so that they had less energy left to unload on Ewing. The situation is reversed here with the center protecting our star PF. However, the concept is the same -- someone else does the dirty work and absorbs body blows on behalf of your star.



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Richyyy



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PostPosted: 02/10/19 3:39 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Charles's rebounding also fell off precipitously last season (12.3%, after never being under 16 in any WNBA season in her career). So someone who could fill in what's become a hole would be useful, whether it's about the pounding or not.

Although there's still the possibility that they think the best player available at #2 is one of the perimeter players, and that they can fill the space inside with some combination of #14, free agency and internal development. Optimistic as that might be.



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root_thing



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PostPosted: 02/10/19 4:10 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Honestly, I think some of that drop-off in rebounding was effort. When you're getting blown out, or later in the season when it was clear NY wasn't making the playoffs, I don't think Tina was able to dig deep and give the proverbial 110%. If the team is more competitive this year, I can see Tina's production bouncing back just based on motivation alone.



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Even now by the gate with your long hair blowing
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Richyyy



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PostPosted: 02/10/19 5:28 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Yeah, that's probably fair to a certain extent. Smith carried on playing her a ridiculous amount of minutes late in the season when they weren't fighting for anything besides lottery position. Wouldn't blame her for creating her own 'rest' in that situation.



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NYL_WNBA_FAN



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PostPosted: 02/10/19 5:45 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:
calbearman76 wrote:
Unless Charles wants out of New York I can't understand the Liberty going with anything but a big. I actually prefer McGowan to Brown, but either way getting a big to take the defensive burden off of Charles makes the most sense.


I agree. Beyond what a big post can bring in terms of production, she will help remove some of the burden from Tina -- both in terms of playing responsibilities and physical pounding. For old-time NY basketball fans, think of what Charles Oakley did for Patrick Ewing. Oakley provided a lot of the rebounding, and he banged on opposing post players so that they had less energy left to unload on Ewing. The situation is reversed here with the center protecting our star PF. However, the concept is the same -- someone else does the dirty work and absorbs body blows on behalf of your star.


This was my original rationale for wanting McCowan. It still might be the best rationale of all our draft rationales. Not just for rebounding, defense, and physical play. Not just for 2019. But mainly to preserve as much of Tina's longevity as possible. I wouldn't be mad at Collier for some similar reasons. She won't bang opposing Centers on defense but she will attack the glass on both ends and she can score in the post. Both of those attributes would take some physical pressure off of Tina. That's the main downside to drafting Durr, who maddeningly looks more and more like the best player likely to be available at #2. Tina has had back issues each of the last two seasons. Preserving her for as long as possible...that needs to be a priority.



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NYL_WNBA_FAN



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PostPosted: 02/10/19 5:49 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:
Honestly, I think some of that drop-off in rebounding was effort. When you're getting blown out, or later in the season when it was clear NY wasn't making the playoffs, I don't think Tina was able to dig deep and give the proverbial 110%. If the team is more competitive this year, I can see Tina's production bouncing back just based on motivation alone.


I think that was part of it, but there was a precipitous drop-off in rebounding in the first third of the season. Tina averaged like 9 rebounds for the first 6 games or so and then had an absolute drop-off after that...when they were still looking like they might be a decent team. She missed a game with back spasms late in the year (second year in a row she has had them) so no telling if physical issues played a role in the rebounding drop-off. We do know it's been two years in a row though. Either way, that's a concern.



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LibFan25



Joined: 01 Sep 2012
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PostPosted: 02/10/19 6:48 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The question will be for the Libs is...will they pick the best available player or a need? both offense and defense is a "need"

i'm all about getting the best player available, and to me Asia Durr is looking like the best one in my opinion.

honestly though, our defense last year was so bad i wouldn't even be mad if we go defense. but we gotta score the ball too right? Charles needs help in that department also...

watched the Oregon vs Stanford game earlier today, this is my first time watching Ionescu this year she is really good


Randy



Joined: 08 Oct 2011
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PostPosted: 02/10/19 7:43 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

LibFan25 wrote:
The question will be for the Libs is...will they pick the best available player or a need? both offense and defense is a "need"

i'm all about getting the best player available, and to me Asia Durr is looking like the best one in my opinion.

honestly though, our defense last year was so bad i wouldn't even be mad if we go defense. but we gotta score the ball too right? Charles needs help in that department also...

watched the Oregon vs Stanford game earlier today, this is my first time watching Ionescu this year she is really good


To me the most persuasive argument I've heard is "help Tina on the boards". McCowen could clearly seem to do that. If not her then Brown.

I watched the part of the game when Oregon's lead went to 24 by halftime. I was going to the rest on DVR to check out Smith.* I see from the box score there is no point in that. Yeah that Ionescu kid is good.

* I kept wondering who she was. That told me something right there. Razz


hangtyme24



Joined: 21 May 2006
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PostPosted: 02/10/19 7:50 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

LibFan25 wrote:
The question will be for the Libs is...will they pick the best available player or a need? both offense and defense is a "need"

i'm all about getting the best player available, and to me Asia Durr is looking like the best one in my opinion.

honestly though, our defense last year was so bad i wouldn't even be mad if we go defense. but we gotta score the ball too right? Charles needs help in that department also...

watched the Oregon vs Stanford game earlier today, this is my first time watching Ionescu this year she is really good


Sounds to me like you don’t know what NY should do either. Should be an exciting next few months.



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libertycrazy97



Joined: 20 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: 02/10/19 7:51 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bob Lamm wrote:
root_thing wrote:
Bob Lamm wrote:

Has it been confirmed that Faris has been signed?

And why is Rebecca Allen on this list? The WNBA website has her listed as a restricted free agent, just like Boyd and Zahui B.


The Faris and Allen signings are based on Tweets from Rachel Galligan. They haven't been confirmed officially anywhere that I can find.


Thanks for this response. On Feb. 2nd, libertycrazy97 posted on this thread that Allen had torn her ACL and was out for the season. That's why I was so puzzled reading that Allen had been signed.

Now I see that, according to Galligan, Allen did NOT tear her ACL and has signed with the Liberty.

Being a Liberty fan seems like an endless guessing game.


I saw online she did. Then Galligan said it was false. A fan in Poland replied to her saying the report there was she hurt her knee. It would actually be nice if Tsai and the liberty actually report whats going on. Trying to find out info on your team cause you love them so is hard.


hangtyme24



Joined: 21 May 2006
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PostPosted: 02/10/19 7:57 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

libertycrazy97 wrote:
Bob Lamm wrote:
root_thing wrote:
Bob Lamm wrote:

Has it been confirmed that Faris has been signed?

And why is Rebecca Allen on this list? The WNBA website has her listed as a restricted free agent, just like Boyd and Zahui B.


The Faris and Allen signings are based on Tweets from Rachel Galligan. They haven't been confirmed officially anywhere that I can find.


Thanks for this response. On Feb. 2nd, libertycrazy97 posted on this thread that Allen had torn her ACL and was out for the season. That's why I was so puzzled reading that Allen had been signed.

Now I see that, according to Galligan, Allen did NOT tear her ACL and has signed with the Liberty.

Being a Liberty fan seems like an endless guessing game.


I saw online she did. Then Galligan said it was false. A fan in Poland replied to her saying the report there was she hurt her knee. It would actually be nice if Tsai and the liberty actually report whats going on. Trying to find out info on your team cause you love them so is hard.


I believe it was originally reported as an ACL, but ended up being an MCL. Allen replied to someone on Twitter that she’ll be ready in a few months.



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LibFan25



Joined: 01 Sep 2012
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PostPosted: 02/10/19 7:58 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Randy wrote:
LibFan25 wrote:
The question will be for the Libs is...will they pick the best available player or a need? both offense and defense is a "need"

i'm all about getting the best player available, and to me Asia Durr is looking like the best one in my opinion.

honestly though, our defense last year was so bad i wouldn't even be mad if we go defense. but we gotta score the ball too right? Charles needs help in that department also...

watched the Oregon vs Stanford game earlier today, this is my first time watching Ionescu this year she is really good


To me the most persuasive argument I've heard is "help Tina on the boards". McCowen could clearly seem to do that. If not her then Brown.

I watched the part of the game when Oregon's lead went to 24 by halftime. I was going to the rest on DVR to check out Smith.* I see from the box score there is no point in that. Yeah that Ionescu kid is good.

* I kept wondering who she was. That told me something right there. Razz


lol the moral to the story is the Libs need help everywhere.

*i did watch the game by the way if you tryna be funny there




Last edited by LibFan25 on 02/10/19 8:08 pm; edited 1 time in total
LibFan25



Joined: 01 Sep 2012
Posts: 561
Location: NY


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PostPosted: 02/10/19 8:01 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

hangtyme24 wrote:
LibFan25 wrote:
The question will be for the Libs is...will they pick the best available player or a need? both offense and defense is a "need"

i'm all about getting the best player available, and to me Asia Durr is looking like the best one in my opinion.

honestly though, our defense last year was so bad i wouldn't even be mad if we go defense. but we gotta score the ball too right? Charles needs help in that department also...

watched the Oregon vs Stanford game earlier today, this is my first time watching Ionescu this year she is really good


Sounds to me like you don’t know what NY should do either. Should be an exciting next few months.


lol its been a long, quiet, dead offseason, i still have more days, weeks, and months to talk in circles. join us


root_thing



Joined: 28 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: 02/10/19 10:06 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

No worries, Liberty fans. This is how New York gets to 18 players in time for camp:

1 Nurse is under a rookie contract
2 Stokes was given a contract extension last season according to WNBA.com
3 Rodgers was given a contract extension last season according to WNBA.com
4 Hartley is under contract according to Medgal’s spreadsheet
5 Galligan tweets that Allen re-signs
6 Galligan tweets that Faris signs a training camp contract
7 Tina is listed as cored on WNBA.com
8 Zahui B. confirmed as an RFA on WNBA.com. She can’t leave if the Liberty match.
9 Boyd confirmed as an RFA on WNBA.com. She can’t leave if the Liberty match.
10-12 The Liberty have all three of their draft picks.
13. The Liberty usually sign a “leftover” veteran late:
• 2018 Marissa Coleman signs May 1
• 2016 Lindsay Harding signs April 18, Jennifer Lacy signs May 7
• 2015 Candice Wiggins signs March 9
14-15 There are usually a couple of camp invites for people playing overseas. Some occur early, but others come late. Shay Murphy, Jacki Gemelos, Nayo Raincock-Ekunwe, Talia Caldwell, and Elin Eldebrink are recent examples.
16-18 After the draft, there are usually some camp invites for undrafted players. Kolby Morgan, Kai James, Renee Bennett, Ivey Slaughter, and Alisia Jenkins are recent examples.

See, that was easy. Wink



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Even now by the gate with your long hair blowing
And the colors of the day that lie along your arms
You must barter your life to make sure you are living
And the crowd that has come
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And the bells and wind and the dream
Shades



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PostPosted: 02/10/19 10:23 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Why do you want 18 players?



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root_thing



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PostPosted: 02/10/19 11:51 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
Why do you want 18 players?


All teams carry extra players because of the late arrivals from overseas. If nothing else, you need bodies in camp so you can practice. I arbitrarily chose the number 18. Some teams bring in over 20. It all depends on how many players you expect to arrive late.



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J-Spoon



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PostPosted: 02/11/19 12:23 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Draft-wise I am still team Durr and Arike is my 1a, Tina might need help in the post but she also needs someone to take the pressure off her on the offensive end. Maybe if we had a player who could score 12-15 points a night and was always consider a threat to score with the ball in her hand Tina wouldn't have to be double or tripled team on every possession. (I am aware I have made that point over and over again.) I have also come to the conclusion that if McCowan is still on the board NY will likely take her, but tbh I still prefer Anigwe to either Brown or McCowan and if someone had a time machine and went to 2021 and returned and said in year 3 Anigwe was putting up Ogwumike sisters like number while Brown was closer to a bigger Lavender and McCowan was a starting level Mcgee-Stafford I wouldn't be shocked, but I also wouldn't be bold enough to pick Anigwe #2 so with that said here is a trade idea maybe

a Sign and trade of Zahui B (or Boyd) and the #2 pick for Thorton and the #5 pick.

Thought process- if Dallas doesn't get a center (or anything) for Cambage they can pick one of the two giants in this draft, McCowan or Brown seem like a good fit in Dallas and the Wings would also get a back up stretch post in Zahui B or a starting/back up (when Diggins returns) PG in Boyd. Thorton could start for NY at SF from day 1, she seems to fit the Liberty mold and NY could draft Anigwe at #5 to become a two headed physical rebounding center with Stokes. Thoughts?


root_thing



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PostPosted: 02/11/19 1:28 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I'm OK with the concept, but not in that combination. If you read the Wings threads, Dallas fans seem to complain a lot about Thornton playing SF. And it's not like she's any kind of big scorer who is going to relieve our offensive problems. On the other side, I don't think Agler would want Zahui B. He's a big defensive guy, and Amanda is shaky on defense in multiple ways. He might take Boyd, but she's our starting PG. Are you saying Thornton is worth Boyd and three slots in the draft? I'd rather keep Boyd and the #2. I subjectively think Brittany is the better player and using either PER (13.4 vs 12.6) or PIE (12.0 vs 7.7) she is statistically better than Thornton.



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Even now by the gate with your long hair blowing
And the colors of the day that lie along your arms
You must barter your life to make sure you are living
And the crowd that has come
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And the bells and wind and the dream
J-Spoon



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PostPosted: 02/11/19 3:12 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

OK back to the drawing board

how about just draft Durr #2 Han Xu #14 and Blockton (Or Heideman) #26 and call it a day

Boyd/Hartley
Durr/Rodgers/Blockton
Nurse/Allen
Charles/Zahui B/Raincock-Ekunwe
Stokes/Han Xu

(I would be OK if we swapped in Zelous but if we are trying to develop some youth Xu and Blockton could be something in a couple of seasons, Blockton could also play some 3)


Bob Lamm



Joined: 11 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: 02/11/19 10:14 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

J-Spoon wrote:
OK back to the drawing board

how about just draft Durr #2 Han Xu #14 and Blockton (Or Heideman) #26 and call it a day

Boyd/Hartley
Durr/Rodgers/Blockton
Nurse/Allen
Charles/Zahui B/Raincock-Ekunwe
Stokes/Han Xu

(I would be OK if we swapped in Zelous but if we are trying to develop some youth Xu and Blockton could be something in a couple of seasons, Blockton could also play some 3)


With projections like this--not that I can suggest anything better--the coming season looks to me like another dreary summer at a minor-league facility. For 2018, New York finished 7-27. Dallas was the 8th seed at 15-19. I find it hard to imagine this roster winning 15 games. (No criticism intended of J-Spoon or others who've offered projected rosters.)


toad455



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PostPosted: 02/11/19 10:23 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

2018 was a disaster with nobody wanting to play in Westchester. 2019 we can officially mark it as a rebuilding year. I'm setting my hopes on #Brooklyn2020.



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Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 02/11/19 11:44 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
2018 was a disaster with nobody wanting to play in Westchester. 2019 we can officially mark it as a rebuilding year. I'm setting my hopes on #Brooklyn2020.


I agree.


Bob Lamm



Joined: 11 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: 02/11/19 11:48 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Just announced on the Liberty's Facebook page: the team has signed Amanda Zahui B., Rebecca Allen, and Nayo Raincock-Ekunwe, Kelly Faris has been added to the training camp roster.

Interesting that Brittany Boyd isn't among these signings. We'll see if she is signed soon.


Shades



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: 02/11/19 11:57 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

J-Spoon wrote:
OK back to the drawing board

how about just draft Durr #2 Han Xu #14 and Blockton (Or Heideman) #26 and call it a day

Boyd/Hartley
Durr/Rodgers/Blockton
Nurse/Allen
Charles/Zahui B/Raincock-Ekunwe
Stokes/Han Xu

(I would be OK if we swapped in Zelous but if we are trying to develop some youth Xu and Blockton could be something in a couple of seasons, Blockton could also play some 3)


Doesn’t seem out of the realm of possibility. I like the idea of Tsai wanting Han on the team (if he’s that hands-on). Even if Han doesn’t show up, that’s still a decent post rotation. I remember the Libs being a better team with Rainey.

I’m curious about the sudden obsession with Marquette players. Doesn’t matter which one, you want a Marquette player. How about Mabrey as your fifth guard? She’d fit in with the Jersey scene.



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