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Maori Davenport Suspension
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osubeavers



Joined: 07 Jan 2017
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Location: West Hills, Portland, OR


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PostPosted: 01/09/19 10:37 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

myrtle wrote:
osubeavers wrote:
pilight wrote:
Statement by AHSAA Central Board of Control President Johnny Hardin

http://www.ahsaa.com/Media/AHSAANOW/News-Articles/ArticleID/1399/statement-by-ahsaa-central-board-of-control-president-johnny-hardin

Quote:
However, if exceptions are made, there would no longer be a need for an Amateur Rule. The Rules are applied equally to ALL athletes. Furthermore, most eligibility violations are the result of adults failing to follow the rules. Here, the student’s mother as a certified AHSAA Coach should know the rules; the School’s Principal should know the rules, the Head Basketball Coach, as not only a Coach but also as a former Central Board member, should know the rules.
Students often have to pay the price for the mistakes of their parents or coaches. Always have always will. Let this serve as an example to those adults to be responsible to the children who rely on their knowledge and judgment. In the bigger picture, a high school athlete losing a season of eligibility due to a clear rules violation is hardly the end of the world. If she is talented she will not be denied a college scholarship opportunity.


wow! Shocked I think if you were in that situation yourself, or your kid, you would hardly feel that way. For a top athlete to miss out a whole year playing the sport you love and excel at because of bureaucratic nonsense could in fact feel like the end of the world for that kid. If it had happened to me as a senior in high school, I would have been devastated. Again, this was an error from USAB - perhaps USAB should be fined rather than punishing the kid.
A list of the number of things the average high-schooler might consider “the end of the world” would be lengthy. And it wouldn’t necessarily involve their health, security or future opportunities.



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CourtsideTix



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PostPosted: 01/10/19 10:01 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

osubeavers wrote:
Students often have to pay the price for the mistakes of their parents or coaches. Always have always will. Let this serve as an example to those adults to be responsible to the children who rely on their knowledge and judgment. In the bigger picture, a high school athlete losing a season of eligibility due to a clear rules violation is hardly the end of the world. If she is talented she will not be denied a college scholarship opportunity.


Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes


pilight



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PostPosted: 01/10/19 2:10 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

If she's not reinstated, USA Basketball should go ahead and give her the $850



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ClayK



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PostPosted: 01/10/19 5:03 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
If she's not reinstated, USA Basketball should go ahead and give her the $850


Post of the month ...



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CourtsideTix



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PostPosted: 01/10/19 5:18 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

"Alabama House Republicans Call for Maori Davenport Reinstatement"

Quote:
The 77 Republicans in the Alabama House of Representatives have called for the Alabama High School Athletic Association to restore the eligibility for Charles Henderson High School basketball player Maori Davenport.

The House Republican caucus announced in a press release today that it unanimously passed a resolution supporting reinstatement of Davenport’s eligibility immediately, the caucus announced in a press release.


https://www.al.com/news/2019/01/alabama-house-republicans-call-for-maori-davenport-reinstatement.html?fbclid=IwAR360leJD_kl7IxaCbRzqJZ8LrqBo8gWU07IRYoDV5bEKK9Quk97vOOl_3w


taropatch



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PostPosted: 01/10/19 5:52 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Quote:
The AHSAA also used a case in Illinois as an example of how things should be done in this type of situation.

“It should be pointed out that a high school student from Illinois also received payment from USA Basketball. However, that student called her high school once she received the check and then returned the check to USA Basketball without cashing or depositing it,” said Hardin in a statement.

USA basketball says that statement is inaccurate.

A spokesperson told WBRC the player “did cash the check after receiving it from USA Basketball.”


Peoples of Illinois is eligible to play.
Davenport of Alabama is not.

One of these states is a blue state. Guess which one Very Happy


pilight



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PostPosted: 01/11/19 7:54 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Legal Implications of Maori Davenport's Eligibility to Play High School Basketball

https://www.si.com/college-basketball/2019/01/10/maori-davenport-usa-basketball-legal-controversy



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toad455



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PostPosted: 01/11/19 8:38 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

This should be that complicated. Just let her play!!



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Ex-Ref



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PostPosted: 01/11/19 9:03 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

OK, so let's say that her mother does know the rules about accepting payment (which she probably does).

It sounds like they knew that USAB was going to contact the AHSAA and get approval before sending the payment.

So when a check arrives (they don't do automatic deposit???*), isn't it fair to think that the AHSAA approved it and take it to the bank?

*Would that have made a difference the Savarese if it had be auto deposit or would he still say that it was accepting payment?



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ClayK



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PostPosted: 01/11/19 10:18 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

No one has yet explained to me why it should be a problem if any high school player gets paid to play basketball.

Again, if a girl in drama gets paid to be in a summer stock production, is she prohibited from being in the school play?



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PostPosted: 01/11/19 10:35 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
No one has yet explained to me why it should be a problem if any high school player gets paid to play basketball.

Again, if a girl in drama gets paid to be in a summer stock production, is she prohibited from being in the school play?


My guess is that no one has explained it to you because we are all getting tired of explaining it to you.



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CourtsideTix



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PostPosted: 01/11/19 11:26 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Today's New York Times: "An Adult’s ‘Clerical Error’ Threatens a Girl’s High School Hoop Dreams"

Quote:
Tara Davenport emphasized that neither she nor her daughter hid the check. They simply thought that U.S.A. Basketball had done its due diligence and that they could accept it.

“I reported it as soon as I knew that Maori wasn’t supposed to have it,” she said.

Kelley, the high school principal, and Miller, the U.S.A. Basketball spokesman, focused on how institutionalized these payments are. After U.S.A. Basketball sent the check but before Davenport received it, Kelley wrote, she received a call from Jeff Walz. Walz is the women’s basketball coach at the University of Louisville, and was also the coach of the United States under-18 team. Walz asked Tara Davenport if she had received the check yet. She said she had not, and asked whether Maori could accept it. Walz told her that she was allowed to, and that it was permitted by the N.C.A.A.

Louisville officials did not respond to a request to comment.


https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/11/sports/basketball/alabama-girl-maori-davenport-.html


FrozenLVFan



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PostPosted: 01/11/19 11:32 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The AHSAA member schools, including Davenport's school, previously determined what payments are allowable and what aren't. Davenport broke the rules, The AHSAA administrators are obligated to uphold the rules which are in effect. It's as simple as that. Unless/until the schools vote to change the rules, or there is a legal challenge to the rules which will likely take until the season is over, she remains ineligible. I don't understand why this is so incomprehensible.

It's sad that neither USAB, Davenport's school, or her mother were looking out for her interests. USAB needs to clean house of incompetent staff, and the school needs to revamp its education for its coaches.


pilight



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PostPosted: 01/11/19 11:50 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

FrozenLVFan wrote:
The AHSAA member schools, including Davenport's school, previously determined what payments are allowable and what aren't. Davenport broke the rules, The AHSAA administrators are obligated to uphold the rules which are in effect. It's as simple as that. Unless/until the schools vote to change the rules, or there is a legal challenge to the rules which will likely take until the season is over, she remains ineligible. I don't understand why this is so incomprehensible.

It's sad that neither USAB, Davenport's school, or her mother were looking out for her interests. USAB needs to clean house of incompetent staff, and the school needs to revamp its education for its coaches.


They've made exceptions before.

The idea that the AHSAA is looking out for her interests is just silly.



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pilight



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PostPosted: 01/11/19 12:02 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Judge’s rules in Maori Davenport’s favor and she can play tonight

https://www.al.com/sports/2019/01/judges-rules-in-maori-davenports-favor-and-she-can-play-tonight.html
Quote:

The AHSAA offered this response about the lawsuit: "“We’re aware of the litigation and in discussions to formulate an appropriate response,”



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ClayK



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PostPosted: 01/11/19 12:10 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
Judge’s rules in Maori Davenport’s favor and she can play tonight

https://www.al.com/sports/2019/01/judges-rules-in-maori-davenports-favor-and-she-can-play-tonight.html
Quote:

The AHSAA offered this response about the lawsuit: "“We’re aware of the litigation and in discussions to formulate an appropriate response,”


Sometimes justice is delivered ...



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ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 01/11/19 12:23 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

That's what you get when you have elected judges. Politics. Ever see Miracle on 34th St.?

It's highly unlikely there is even a shred of a legal claim here, but the popular thing is to let her play until they hold a hearing and the association responds to the suit. I can almost hear the judge's campaign manager telling him he's got to rule for the player.

He'll probably schedule the hearing for mid April.


toad455



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PostPosted: 01/11/19 12:59 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
Judge’s rules in Maori Davenport’s favor and she can play tonight

https://www.al.com/sports/2019/01/judges-rules-in-maori-davenports-favor-and-she-can-play-tonight.html
Quote:

The AHSAA offered this response about the lawsuit: "“We’re aware of the litigation and in discussions to formulate an appropriate response,”


About time!



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BamaEd



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PostPosted: 01/11/19 3:46 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Very happy my home state had someone to at least temporarily end this PR nightmare.

I think she should be allowed to play. If they want to punish her, then consider the games she's missed as punishment.

Some folks on the board are adamant that she should be suspended for the season. Is it because that's what the AHSAA said the rule is so it should be upheld? Or is it because you believe in the rule and how it was interpreted? I'm just curious is all.


Youth Coach



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PostPosted: 01/11/19 6:19 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I don't know that anyone should get all excited about the judge letting her play. If she plays and at the end of the upcoming hearing the board wins, they'll just retroactively punish the team and strip them of any wins/titles they may win because they used what they'll consider an ineligible player.

It's stupid, but you know damn well it will happen.
toad455



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PostPosted: 01/11/19 10:13 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Apparently the stats department couldn't keep up tonight. Charles Henderson High School won 72-17!




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GlennMacGrady



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PostPosted: 01/12/19 1:06 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Youth Coach wrote:
I don't know that anyone should get all excited about the judge letting her play. If she plays and at the end of the upcoming hearing the board wins, they'll just retroactively punish the team and strip them of any wins/titles they may win because they used what they'll consider an ineligible player.


That's right, and also the school may be retroactively fined. Here's a good legal analysis of what will happen after the judge's ex parte restraining order expires after 10 days:

Despite Temporary Motion to Play, Maori Davenport's Eligibility Case Is Far From Settled

I'm discomfited that a judge would interfere with the decisions of a purely private and voluntary athletic organization, and moreover do so on an ex parte basis (i.e., without the other party, the AHSAA, even having the opportunity to respond). Unfortunately for our three branch democracy, judicial arrogance and tyranny have been on the rise at every level for the past 60 years, with individual judges imposing their own subjective social, cultural and political preferences, instead of deferring to the legislative and executive branches where those decisions are intended to be made. And Art Best is correct: a locally elected judge is most likely to bend to perceived voter pressures rather than sticking to the rule of law.

On the tangential question of why schools or athletic associations should have rules about amateurism, "pure amateurism" is, like it or not, the entire purpose of the AHSAA, for which schools such as Davenport's voluntarily join. The second sentence of the AHSAA's founding Constitution declares: "The object of this Association shall be to promote pure amateur athletic competition in the high schools of Alabama."
pilight



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PostPosted: 01/12/19 1:29 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The schools join the AHSAA, not the students, so any punishment should be levied against the school



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calbearman76



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PostPosted: 01/12/19 1:31 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GlennMacGrady wrote:
Youth Coach wrote:
I don't know that anyone should get all excited about the judge letting her play. If she plays and at the end of the upcoming hearing the board wins, they'll just retroactively punish the team and strip them of any wins/titles they may win because they used what they'll consider an ineligible player.


That's right, and also the school may be retroactively fined. Here's a good legal analysis of what will happen after the judge's ex parte restraining order expires after 10 days:

Despite Temporary Motion to Play, Maori Davenport's Eligibility Case Is Far From Settled

I'm discomfited that a judge would interfere with the decisions of a purely private and voluntary athletic organization, and moreover do so on an ex parte basis (i.e., without the other party, the AHSAA, even having the opportunity to respond). Unfortunately for our three branch democracy, judicial arrogance and tyranny have been on the rise at every level for the past 60 years, with individual judges imposing their own subjective social, cultural and political preferences, instead of deferring to the legislative and executive branches where those decisions are intended to be made. And Art Best is correct: a locally elected judge is most likely to bend to perceived voter pressures rather than sticking to the rule of law.

On the tangential question of why schools or athletic associations should have rules about amateurism, "pure amateurism" is, like it or not, the entire purpose of the AHSAA, for which schools such as Davenport's voluntarily join. The second sentence of the AHSAA's founding Constitution declares: "The object of this Association shall be to promote pure amateur athletic competition in the high schools of Alabama."



If the AHSAA were truly interested in pure amateurism there would be a lot of high quality football talent sitting at home on Friday night and Saturday during the fall. There have many cases of football players getting large sums of money, sometimes just for playing for high school teams and more often in the college recruiting process. There was also the case of Chuck Person being involved in paying high school basketball players to play at Auburn. The holier than thou concept of "pure amateurism" is much more of a "don't ask don't tell" policy where everyone looks the other way at major violations but then tries to show how tough they are by ruling against a girl. For what - accepting a payment from an organization that fosters girls amateur sports that made a mistake, and then repaying it when the issue was raised.


If I sit at a traffic light that doesn't change for 20 minutes that cycles through several times but never displays an arrow to turn left I am justified to go through that light when it is safe to do so. No rule is 100% inviolable and the judge was right to view the equities of the case.


GlennMacGrady



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PostPosted: 01/12/19 3:44 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

calbearman76 wrote:
GlennMacGrady wrote:
Youth Coach wrote:
I don't know that anyone should get all excited about the judge letting her play. If she plays and at the end of the upcoming hearing the board wins, they'll just retroactively punish the team and strip them of any wins/titles they may win because they used what they'll consider an ineligible player.


That's right, and also the school may be retroactively fined. Here's a good legal analysis of what will happen after the judge's ex parte restraining order expires after 10 days:

Despite Temporary Motion to Play, Maori Davenport's Eligibility Case Is Far From Settled

I'm discomfited that a judge would interfere with the decisions of a purely private and voluntary athletic organization, and moreover do so on an ex parte basis (i.e., without the other party, the AHSAA, even having the opportunity to respond). Unfortunately for our three branch democracy, judicial arrogance and tyranny have been on the rise at every level for the past 60 years, with individual judges imposing their own subjective social, cultural and political preferences, instead of deferring to the legislative and executive branches where those decisions are intended to be made. And Art Best is correct: a locally elected judge is most likely to bend to perceived voter pressures rather than sticking to the rule of law.

On the tangential question of why schools or athletic associations should have rules about amateurism, "pure amateurism" is, like it or not, the entire purpose of the AHSAA, for which schools such as Davenport's voluntarily join. The second sentence of the AHSAA's founding Constitution declares: "The object of this Association shall be to promote pure amateur athletic competition in the high schools of Alabama."


. . . the judge was right to view the equities of the case.


You're missing the socio-political and legal points.

First of all, no judge, as a general rule, should be interfering in the decisions of a voluntarily organized private group. For example, should judges be deciding whether a boy scout was properly denied a merit badge or whether someone violated a membership rule of the Moose Lodge? Secondly, the judge acted without considering "the equities of the case." He acted solely on completely unproven and unsupported ex parte allegations of "arbitrariness, collusion and fraud" by the AHSAA without the AHSAA having any opportunity to make an appearance or to be heard. The judge should not have issued the temporary restraining order, but should simply have scheduled an evidentiary hearing to listen to both sides. That will now happen at some unknown date in the future.

I have no knowledge about your football examples, but a better traffic violation analogy would be speeding, which like the AHSAA's monetary prohibition is a strict liability offense. It's not a defense that you didn't know that speeding was against the law, or that you didn't know the exact speed limit, or that you didn't know you were speeding, or that you didn't intend to speed, or that your speedometer gave you mistaken information, or that the person who gave you the car said it was legal to speed in it, or that you slowed down to a legal speed after you saw the cop, or that you promise not to speed in the future.

It's possible that due to public pressure that the AHSAA will not contest the lawsuit at the eventual hearing and that Davenport will fully prevail that way. Such a duck would allow the AHSAA to say that they upheld their rule, as their bylaws required them to, but were stymied by the court.
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