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myrtle



Joined: 02 May 2008
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PostPosted: 12/05/18 7:08 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

If MM got down on her knees and groveled it wouldn't be enough for some. When you have to nitpick at an apology, it's getting pretty petty. Geno and Pat never apologized to each other (to my knowledge) but it doesn't make them less great in terms of coaching. I don't think our POTUS has ever apologized about anything, and lord knows, he has much more to apologize about than any women's basketball coach. If MM hadn't apologized at all, there would be less hubbub about it. So there's a rivalry and it ain't too friendly. Great. IMO it's good for the sport so long as nobody actually gets injured because of it.



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linkster



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PostPosted: 12/05/18 7:19 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

myrtle wrote:
If MM got down on her knees and groveled it wouldn't be enough for some. When you have to nitpick at an apology, it's getting pretty petty. Geno and Pat never apologized to each other (to my knowledge) but it doesn't make them less great in terms of coaching. I don't think our POTUS has ever apologized about anything, and lord knows, he has much more to apologize about than any women's basketball coach. If MM hadn't apologized at all, there would be less hubbub about it. So there's a rivalry and it ain't too friendly. Great. IMO it's good for the sport so long as nobody actually gets injured because of it.


Nice strawmen Myrtle. No one ever asked for an apology and certainly a simple "Sorry" to Dangerfield in the postgame handshake line would have been sufficient.

And what in god's name does the POTUS have to do with this.

Google "cheap shot" and a video of No 24's sleazy attacks would pop up. So if I come up behind a player (one that has been following me around like a shadow), and take out her legs by kicking her behind the knee, not inadvertently in the paint but in the open court with no one else near, knocking her to the floor, and then clothsline that same player from behind, again knocking her to the floor it's no big deal unless she actually gets hurt? I could even excuse one such attack but 2? And you can add in an undercut of Williams as she jumps in the lane to the list of No 24's low-down dirty play.

Any of No 24's attacks could have ended Dangerfield's or William's seasons and possibly careers. It's one thing to inadvertently cause an injury to a competitor and quite another to do it with malice aforethought.

I can excuse an elbow into the ribs during a battle for a rebound or even Shepard pushing Williams to the floor in the paint, but 24's acts weren't in the heat of battle but came after a change of possessions when no one was pushing the tempo. Neither player had the ball or were trying to make a play. Players were simply moving down court. So there was no goal to either attack other than to injure Dangerfield




Last edited by linkster on 12/05/18 7:38 pm; edited 1 time in total
myrtle



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PostPosted: 12/05/18 7:30 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

linkster wrote:
myrtle wrote:
If MM got down on her knees and groveled it wouldn't be enough for some. When you have to nitpick at an apology, it's getting pretty petty. Geno and Pat never apologized to each other (to my knowledge) but it doesn't make them less great in terms of coaching. I don't think our POTUS has ever apologized about anything, and lord knows, he has much more to apologize about than any women's basketball coach. If MM hadn't apologized at all, there would be less hubbub about it. So there's a rivalry and it ain't too friendly. Great. IMO it's good for the sport so long as nobody actually gets injured because of it.


So if I come up behind a player (one that has been following me around like a shadow, and take out her legs, not inadvertently in the paint but in the open court with no one else near, knocking her to the floor, and then clothsline that same player from behind, it's no big deal unless she actually gets hurt?

Any of No 24's attacks could have ended Dangerfield's season and possibly her career. It's one thing to inadvertently cause an injury to a competitor and quite another to do it with malice of forethought.


Yeah, so what is McGraw supposed to do in public other than apologize, which she did? Hopefully she's dealing with it inside the team and directly with #24.



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linkster



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PostPosted: 12/05/18 7:41 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

myrtle wrote:
linkster wrote:
myrtle wrote:
If MM got down on her knees and groveled it wouldn't be enough for some. When you have to nitpick at an apology, it's getting pretty petty. Geno and Pat never apologized to each other (to my knowledge) but it doesn't make them less great in terms of coaching. I don't think our POTUS has ever apologized about anything, and lord knows, he has much more to apologize about than any women's basketball coach. If MM hadn't apologized at all, there would be less hubbub about it. So there's a rivalry and it ain't too friendly. Great. IMO it's good for the sport so long as nobody actually gets injured because of it.


So if I come up behind a player (one that has been following me around like a shadow, and take out her legs, not inadvertently in the paint but in the open court with no one else near, knocking her to the floor, and then clothsline that same player from behind, it's no big deal unless she actually gets hurt?

Any of No 24's attacks could have ended Dangerfield's season and possibly her career. It's one thing to inadvertently cause an injury to a competitor and quite another to do it with malice of forethought.


Yeah, so what is McGraw supposed to do in public other than apologize, which she did? Hopefully she's dealing with it inside the team and directly with #24.


If I lived across the street from you and in a fit of rage trashed your car would you consider it an apology if I ignored you and turned to my parents and said I was sorry to them for not representing the family well?

There was no apology Myrtle. Apologies are directed at the injured party(s).




Last edited by linkster on 12/05/18 8:39 pm; edited 2 times in total
linkster



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PostPosted: 12/05/18 7:44 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

IMO what she said to the Irish fanbase was "sorry we got caught and embarrassed ourselves and our school".


linkster



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PostPosted: 12/05/18 8:38 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Looking at this picture of an "Arike moment" from the Or St game, I have to wonder if she has established a pattern of dangerous and unsportsmanlike play.

https://the-boneyard.com/threads/muffet-tweet.136988/page-10#lg=attachment37141&slide=0


TigerVol



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PostPosted: 12/05/18 8:49 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Brinx wrote:
myrtle wrote:
ucbart wrote:
Ex-Ref wrote:


And if Stewie thought that MM was being petty by blocking her, how petty is Stewie being for putting it on blast? Pretty petty in my book. See, I've been taught that two wrongs don't make a right.



I was waiting to see how a ND fan would spin this. Typical ND, aroorgant bullshit.


Not an ND fan, but I thought the same thing as ex-ref. And really what's the big deal in blocking someone? I do it on facebook all the time, if you don't particularly want to read what they have to say, block 'em. No big deal.


But it's twitter, you won't see someones tweets unless you are following them. So why block her and keep her from following you unless it's to be petty? Looking at both their timelines they don't mention each other ever, nor interact with people in ways that they would be seeing tweets unless they followed each other. So it seems like MM would have had to go out of her way to block Breanna, not just deciding she didn't want to see what she posted anymore.


Also see them if someone you follow likes the post.

I've muted rival team accounts people I follow like when I have no Interest seeing their stuff in my TL.



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mikeyc22



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PostPosted: 12/05/18 9:35 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Jewel Loyd tweeted in support of Stewie LOL. Muffet did not like when she left for the draft early.


FrozenLVFan



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PostPosted: 12/06/18 9:14 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I doubt very much that MM wrote that particular apology. Anything she may have written was undoubtedly tweaked, rewritten, and/or mangled by some PR person before it was posted. That apology said what ND wanted it to say.

I also doubt MM took the time to block Bre this week without provocation. That block was likely from some time in the past in response to some previous ND-UConn dust-up, and Bre just happened to notice it this week when she went on Twitter to look at MM's tweet.


Nixtreefan



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PostPosted: 12/06/18 12:10 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Tara would have benched them and then made them apologize to their own team their own fans and the other team. But then I don't think Tara would have allowed them to act like whiny punks in the first place, after all thats why they got our grad transfer even knowing she was trying to sue Tara for made up crap just because she didnt get her way Wink


summertime blues



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PostPosted: 12/06/18 2:56 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I thought I got away from middle-school drama when my daughter got out of middle school. Apparently not.



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linkster



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PostPosted: 12/06/18 3:20 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

summertime blues wrote:
I thought I got away from middle-school drama when my daughter got out of middle school. Apparently not.


Why am I not surprised. The next time you support UConn/Geno on anything will be the first time.

This is a lot worse than your characterization of "middle school drama". Rolling Eyes

Drama and nothing more?

How would you respond to your daughter getting leg-whipped and in a separate attack taken down by the neck by the same opponent who came at her both times from behind? Would you maybe have something to say at least to the refs?


summertime blues



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PostPosted: 12/06/18 6:44 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

linkster wrote:
summertime blues wrote:
I thought I got away from middle-school drama when my daughter got out of middle school. Apparently not.


Why am I not surprised. The next time you support UConn/Geno on anything will be the first time.

This is a lot worse than your characterization of "middle school drama". Rolling Eyes

Drama and nothing more?

How would you respond to your daughter getting leg-whipped and in a separate attack taken down by the neck by the same opponent who came at her both times from behind? Would you maybe have something to say at least to the refs?


Long answer. Bear with me.

My daughter played soccer. She was a defender. There was a lot of that. In high school, there were some pretty heavy rivalries also, two in particular that I remember.One was with another religious school. After the game, both teams would gather at the center line for the post-game prayer. Amazingly, the kids were pretty darn sincere. It probably helped that many of them had played together in youth soccer prior to high school. The other team was bigger, stronger, and usually beat hell out of our girls, somewhat like UConn does other teams...they were dominant in the conference and extremely physical. It wasn't a friendly rivalry. But at least the kids tried not to carry it into the next week, and neither did the coaches or the parents. Of course the coaches would try to "work" the referees during the game...isn't that part of their job? The only time I ever saw things get out of hand was when my daughter was a junior and they played a team that had an exchange student who's been on a training team for the German junior national team. The girl played the way they do in international soccer and one of our girls took some serious exception to it, to the point of a yellow card (which should have gone to the other girl). Coach took her out, and everyone on the sidelines heard her screaming at him, "Let me back in there! I'll kick her Nazi ass!" But he wouldn't let her back in until she calmed down. Still, when the German girl blew out her knee in a subsequent game, the girls on our team sent her a get well card, reasoning that it would be awful to be hurt and be thousands of miles away from home.

But of course there wasn't social media then, so there was none of this current ridiculousness.



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Howee



Joined: 27 Nov 2009
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PostPosted: 12/06/18 7:29 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

"Dear God:

Please blow up every last brick of Twitter's Headquarters. At night, with nobody around, of course (if anybody gets hurt it'll be Muff's fault, and the Greater Notre Dame establishment).

Please drop an A-bomb on any part of the internet Cloud or any other infrastructure so that Twitter can no longer exist. And PLEASE make Any and All of the Twits/Tweeters/whatever have a Huge Come To Jesus Moment, where they get on their knees and realize how idiotic their behavior is, and how it makes everybody's lives worse, not better.

Amen."



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linkster



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PostPosted: 12/06/18 7:45 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

summertime blues wrote:


Long answer. Bear with me.

My daughter played soccer. She was a defender. There was a lot of that. In high school, there were some pretty heavy rivalries also, two in particular that I remember.One was with another religious school. After the game, both teams would gather at the center line for the post-game prayer. Amazingly, the kids were pretty darn sincere. It probably helped that many of them had played together in youth soccer prior to high school. The other team was bigger, stronger, and usually beat hell out of our girls, somewhat like UConn does other teams...they were dominant in the conference and extremely physical. It wasn't a friendly rivalry. But at least the kids tried not to carry it into the next week, and neither did the coaches or the parents. Of course the coaches would try to "work" the referees during the game...isn't that part of their job? The only time I ever saw things get out of hand was when my daughter was a junior and they played a team that had an exchange student who's been on a training team for the German junior national team. The girl played the way they do in international soccer and one of our girls took some serious exception to it, to the point of a yellow card (which should have gone to the other girl). Coach took her out, and everyone on the sidelines heard her screaming at him, "Let me back in there! I'll kick her Nazi ass!" But he wouldn't let her back in until she calmed down. Still, when the German girl blew out her knee in a subsequent game, the girls on our team sent her a get well card, reasoning that it would be awful to be hurt and be thousands of miles away from home.

But of course there wasn't social media then, so there was none of this current ridiculousness.


Good story.

Getting back to wcbb I have no problem with physical play with a purpose. A hard foul to prevent a layup, hip checks fighting for rebounds or fighting for a loose ball. But in these cases Dangerfield wasn't trying to make a play, didn't even have the ball. One incident occurred at about half court when both players were running down court after a change in possession. No 24 came up from behind Dangerfield and slid down behind her while whipping her leg into the back of Dangerfield's knees, putting her down. The other incident also happened after a change of possession as Dangerfield was running back and still in her own back court. No 24, came up from behind and wrapped her arm around Dangerfield's neck, dragging her down.
There is no way either of those can in any way be called incidental to play. They were, IMO nasty and cowardly acts done out of frustration at the effective close defense Dangerfield was using on her in the 2nd half.

And I don't give a rat's ass about an apology, I only ask that media point out that neither MM nor No 24 apologized. Apologies are directed at the target of the bad behavior, Dangerfield.

My annoyance is mostly with the media who are collectively putting on blinders over this. If you read the articles you would think that the whole to do was over an exchange between Geno and No 24, and how wonderful it is for the game that happened. Little if anything is written about 24's punkish behavior. If this was the NBA No 24 would be facing a suspension for stepping way over the line.


summertime blues



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PostPosted: 12/06/18 11:20 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Since I didn’t see the game, being otherwise occupied, and haven’t watched any clips, i can’t comment on the play. What I will say is that, sitting where I do at JMU games (very close to the court and near the second half home basket), sometimes what looks intentional isn’t, and vice versa. However, from your description, the second one sounds pretty much intentional, even without seeing it. I’d have to see the first one to comment.

But the rest of this drama.....really! On all sides!



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linkster



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PostPosted: 12/07/18 12:42 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

summertime blues wrote:
Since I didn’t see the game, being otherwise occupied, and haven’t watched any clips, i can’t comment on the play. What I will say is that, sitting where I do at JMU games (very close to the court and near the second half home basket), sometimes what looks intentional isn’t, and vice versa. However, from your description, the second one sounds pretty much intentional, even without seeing it. I’d have to see the first one to comment.

But the rest of this drama.....really! On all sides!


The drama comes with the media attention. Stuff for the commentators to fill air time instead of anything relevant.

I hope you get to see the game. It was really a well played game with lots of nice offense from both teams that only got out of hand as far as the score in the last 6 minutes or so.


It's just a shame that Arike is graduating. It would have been a wild scene in Gampel. But Muffet will. Very Happy


ClayK



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PostPosted: 12/07/18 10:58 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

We want more attention paid to women's basketball -- and this kind of thing is part of the attention.

You have to take the bitter with the sweet ...



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Nixtreefan



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PostPosted: 12/07/18 11:06 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

So true, so why is the usual Press Sprechen ignoring the take downs Cool


linkster



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PostPosted: 12/07/18 4:52 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
We want more attention paid to women's basketball -- and this kind of thing is part of the attention.

You have to take the bitter with the sweet ...


My god, Do TV ratings and attendance figures trump hooliganism?

So where do you draw the line? Is anything OK as long as it draws attention to the game? How naive I must be. I thought that one of the goals of sport is to instill sportmanship and good citizenship in it's participants.

Would a player taking a swing at Tara's jaw during a game be "good for wcbb" because it draws attention to the game? Fights in pro sports are hugely popular with fans but I don't think they are good for much.

Tanya Harding's boyfriend certainly drew a lot of attention to figure skating. Was his attack OK because of that?

The on-court behavior last Sunday went beyond being described as chippy. There is no place in sports for behavior that risks serious injury to a player.


linkster



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PostPosted: 12/07/18 4:54 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Nixtreefan wrote:
So true, so why is the usual Press Sprechen ignoring the take downs Cool


Exactly. ESPN and the rest of the media is not in the least interested in showing those replays. Why? They must have shown the Griner punch a couple hundred times and were certainly unanimous in their condemnation.


ClayK



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PostPosted: 12/07/18 6:39 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

My bad ... I'm not advocating this, or saying that it's the kind of thing that should be done. But shit happens, and if a league is getting coverage, so will the shit.

Now if no one cared, then only a few people would know.



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willtalk



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PostPosted: 12/08/18 10:47 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

summertime blues wrote:
Since I didn’t see the game, being otherwise occupied, and haven’t watched any clips, i can’t comment on the play. What I will say is that, sitting where I do at JMU games (very close to the court and near the second half home basket), sometimes what looks intentional isn’t, and vice versa. However, from your description, the second one sounds pretty much intentional, even without seeing it. I’d have to see the first one to comment.

But the rest of this drama.....really! On all sides!
Your entire first paragraph sounds very reasonable and makes a lot of sense. A good policy to follow. Even though you are still relying on the perspective of a another person for your evaluation of the first incident. Still the your last statement " I'd have to see the first one to comment" is basically the best rule to follow in respect to most subjects.

But let me get this straight! You did not see the Uconn game nor any of the clips, yet you chose to comment about the validity of peoples reaction to incidents that occurred. Too bad you did not follow the criteria you set for yourself for that last incident. Even objective and measured words can not really describe an even completely. The term on picture is worth a thousand words was not coined for no reason.

What occurred in the UConn game were not isolated incidents in respect to this player. In the Oregon St game she was hit with a flagrant for a forearm to the head of another player at mid court away from the action as well. She also escaped another flagrant for kicking another player in the head while they were both on the ground.That one possibly was accidental but in context with her other actions it is more probable that it was not. In fact it was that play that impelled the refs to review and assess the flagrant for the previous play. What we are dealing with is a serial flagrant fouler.

This is not just about a basketball game. Not in respect to the player, but also the principle of if rules mean anything if they are selectively enforced. For the player because these actions were so egregious and not as typical as in the past. Something is going on with her that needs to be dealt with. For the game, because sports are also a reflection of our society and people need to feel that rules are applied equally to everyone. When people see that not happening they will justifiably become upset. The term " good sport" used to be synonymous with fairness. "Fairness" is a real issue that has effected and polarized our society today. This has certainly morphed and bled over into the issue being discussed on this thread. To label those opinions and feelings as "Drama" is being dismissive and patronizing. Especially since you have admitted not having seen the very things that triggered that so called "Drama".

The whole point about those fouls (called or uncalled ) boils down to intent. That same principle applies to the post made on this subject. Some might be motivated purely by rivalry. While others in a real concern for justice and the safety of players. I would like to ask you what was the intent for your post? Why did you chose to rebuke people for their reactions to something you were totally unaware and ignorant about?



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PostPosted: 12/08/18 11:06 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I have to agree with summertime. This whole reactionary furor on blogs and fan boards about the tempest in a Twitterpot because someone felt slighted by being blocked by someone else is like a bunch of junior high girls feuding and is not on point at all about flagrant fouls, risk of injury, etc. It's just stupid drama.


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PostPosted: 12/08/18 11:11 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

This thread initially started off with regards to MM and AOs apology but has spread out to include AOs physical play, AOs gametime interaction with Geno and the "Twitter Feud" between MM and BS.

My perspective and this comes from only watching various highlights of the game, I haven't watch the complete game for context , is that AO engaged in flagrant, potentially injurious play in the game. Having not watched the entire game I don't know the context that the referees were coming from. But I think there is a legitimate concern about the behaviors practice by AO over the course of the game

Regarding the apology I think it's purely damage control. I think either after the heat of battle was done MM realized they had behaved in less than sportsman like manner OR other constituents in the Notre Dame community realized that the Notre Dame women's basketball team had behaved in less than exemplary manner.

I think the Twitter thing is DRAMa. It's petty, it's pointless, it's oh so entertaining.



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Last edited by NoDakSt on 12/08/18 11:36 am; edited 1 time in total
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