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George W. Bush, 41st President, R.I.P.
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Richard 77



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PostPosted: 12/01/18 12:11 am    ::: George W. Bush, 41st President, R.I.P. Reply Reply with quote

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/george-hw-bush-41st-president-dead-at-94-2018-11-30/



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justintyme



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PostPosted: 12/01/18 12:19 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

RIP



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taropatch



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PostPosted: 12/01/18 1:49 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Thank you for your service to our nation.
Thank you for putting America first on Election Day 2016.
RIP


pilight



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PostPosted: 12/01/18 5:48 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bush's passing marks the end of the fourth time in US history that we've had five living ex-presidents, the most living ex-presidents we've ever had.



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PostPosted: 12/03/18 7:49 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote




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PostPosted: 12/04/18 2:06 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

the guy was no fucking hero as POTUS.



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justintyme



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PostPosted: 12/04/18 3:16 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

cthskzfn wrote:
the guy was no fucking hero as POTUS.

Inability to draw distinction is how we end up with people like Trump. You have to accept that there are legitimate ways to see the world that you may disagree with, and that there are good and decent people who will hold beliefs that you fundamentally oppose.

For although I disagree with a lot of his policy, there was nothing about Bush that ever came off as anything less than genuine and decent. And like it or not, he represented very much the political and policy leanings and beliefs of the country at that time.



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Genero36



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PostPosted: 12/04/18 8:16 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

cthskzfn wrote:
the guy was no fucking hero as POTUS.


Just wait till the orange idiot dies.



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PostPosted: 12/05/18 10:44 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

justintyme wrote:
cthskzfn wrote:
the guy was no fucking hero as POTUS.

Inability to draw distinction is how we end up with people like Trump. You have to accept that there are legitimate ways to see the world that you may disagree with, and that there are good and decent people who will hold beliefs that you fundamentally oppose.

For although I disagree with a lot of his policy, there was nothing about Bush that ever came off as anything less than genuine and decent. And like it or not, he represented very much the political and policy leanings and beliefs of the country at that time.


Here's one way to look at HW:

https://rudepundit.blogspot.com/2018/12/dead-poppy.html



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stever



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PostPosted: 12/05/18 8:59 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/9lu7G7rOiOo" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>



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cthskzfn



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PostPosted: 12/05/18 9:57 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

https://youtu.be/PKMXG70vbkk



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PostPosted: 12/06/18 9:42 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/a25414794/george-hw-bush-racial-demagogue-campaign-governing/

It was during Jon Meacham's paean to our civic religion over the casket of the late George H.W. Bush that I was struck by the thought that, even if you think we need a "civic religion," which I don't, the state of our current civic religion is very much the same as the state of Christianity was in Paris at the end of August in 1572. So I began running down the alleged elements of the creed of this civic religion people talk so much about, and I ran aground on one of them that has been getting quite the workout over the past two weeks.

Nobody with any longterm memory at all doesn't realize that, in 1988 and 1992, the late Mr. Bush ran for office in campaigns thick with calumny and deceit. In 1988, for political gain, he engaged in the personal destruction of Michael Dukakis, using the most poisonous tactics available to any American politician—racism and accusations of disloyalty. (Remember all the stuff about the Pledge of Allegiance?). In 1992, late in the campaign, his people—on the taxpayer's dime, I might add—scoured various passport files to prove that Bill Clinton had become a secret Communist on a visit to Russia, and also went through Clinton's mother's file as well. My own personal gripe is that Bush hired the dirty work out to some godawfully terrible people, without whom American politics would have been infinitely better off. This, I might add, was typical of the way the WASP elite had done business for centuries.

Anyway, apparently, our civic religion requires that we confess our belief that there is some sort of bright line between "campaigning" and "governing." (The gang at MSNBC seems particularly devoted to this part of the creed.) That is all my bollocks, and it's goddamn dangerous thing to accept as axiomatic, as has been demonstrated to the country on a regular basis since January of 2019. (It is the profession of faith that underlies all that hopeful whimpering about how the president* may one day pivot to being president.) The poison injected into the bloodstream during a campaign doesn't magically get cleansed as soon as somebody puts his or her hand on the Bible.

The Reagan-Bush years were years of profound racial reaction and social backlash in this country. Because it was the easiest and surest way to get elected, both men pandered to those forces. Those forces did not dissipate just because, at one point, each of them became president of all the people. Ask the families of the people with AIDS who died of neglect. Ask the black folks who saw the gains of the civil rights movement chipped away, brick by brick. The dumbest thing Mario Cuomo ever said was that thing about how you campaign in poetry but govern in prose. There's an unspoken corollary to that. If you campaign in slander, you govern that way, too. You have no choice.

Demagoguery has been recognized as a mortal threat to democracy as far back as Aristotle. (He took a demagogue named Cleon to the woodshed because Cleon "was the first who shouted on the public platform, who used abusive language, and who spoke with his cloak girt around him, while all the others used to speak in proper dress and manner." Bad hair, too, in all likelihood.) And drawing a distinction between what a politician says while campaigning and what he does while governing demands an ongoing offer of proof rather than a hand-wave of denial. Without that offer of proof, the demagogue cannot help but triumph.

George H.W. Bush campaigned as a demagogue, twice. He was not transformed by his oath of office, which is neither a magic spell nor a religious incantation.



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PostPosted: 12/06/18 11:36 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I was not a fan of his. Years ago, an acquaintance with first hand knowledge told me that George had a long-standing mistress that he finally put aside when elected president. While I don't condemn people for these kinds of foibles, it does add a certain elevated distaste for the hypocrisy that was fostered by the Bush Brand....of family wholesomeness, etc. I actually thought less of Barbara, but....that's another story.

The spectacle that goes with this passing of a president is all part of the drama inherent in our culture's fascination with something resembling 'royalty'. And yes, the Bushes were something of a dynasty.

I choose to believe that neither he nor his son were as malevolent and self-serving as Trump, but....that's not necessarily saying much, either. They WERE wealthy people who definitely sought to enrich themselves in their personal dealings. I can't help but believe that as wealthy Oil People, their decisions on Middle Eastern Affairs were skewed by that perspective, far more than any concern for World Peace and Stability.

That they were a bit less selfish, self-aggrandizing and more cognizant of The Bigger Picture than Trump is, well....not saying much, either, but it's *something*, by contrast. In the sound bites I caught, it certainly seemed as though journalists were making that point for the sake of the current administration.

In a land where Might Makes Right (and "Might" = $$$), will we ever see another Lincoln, who knew what it was to be poor? Clinton and Obama didn't come from wealth....maybe they'll be the closest we'll ever get to replicating that.



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PostPosted: 12/07/18 5:50 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Howee wrote:
I choose to believe that neither he nor his son were as malevolent and self-serving as Trump.


Those are words. Count the bodies.



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tfan



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PostPosted: 12/07/18 10:26 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

jammerbirdi wrote:
Howee wrote:
I choose to believe that neither he nor his son were as malevolent and self-serving as Trump.


Those are words. Count the bodies.


So true. The son should have been hung for war crimes along with his minions.

Sad thing is that these days every president has dead bodies he creates via drone strikes.


justintyme



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PostPosted: 12/07/18 1:41 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:
jammerbirdi wrote:
Howee wrote:
I choose to believe that neither he nor his son were as malevolent and self-serving as Trump.


Those are words. Count the bodies.


So true. The son should have been hung for war crimes along with his minions.

Sad thing is that these days every president has dead bodies he creates via drone strikes.

I was going to say, we selectively point out all the issues with Bush, yet hail Obama and his 13000-is drone strikes.



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pilight



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PostPosted: 12/07/18 2:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

justintyme wrote:
tfan wrote:
jammerbirdi wrote:
Howee wrote:
I choose to believe that neither he nor his son were as malevolent and self-serving as Trump.


Those are words. Count the bodies.


So true. The son should have been hung for war crimes along with his minions.

Sad thing is that these days every president has dead bodies he creates via drone strikes.

I was going to say, we selectively point out all the issues with Bush, yet hail Obama and his 13000-is drone strikes.


#NotAllRebkellians



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Kiss lots of boys
Or kiss lots of girls
If that's something you're into
When the straight and narrow
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Roll up a joint, or don't
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Follow your arrow
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cthskzfn



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PostPosted: 12/07/18 4:33 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
justintyme wrote:
tfan wrote:
jammerbirdi wrote:
Howee wrote:
I choose to believe that neither he nor his son were as malevolent and self-serving as Trump.


Those are words. Count the bodies.


So true. The son should have been hung for war crimes along with his minions.

Sad thing is that these days every president has dead bodies he creates via drone strikes.

I was going to say, we selectively point out all the issues with Bush, yet hail Obama and his 13000-is drone strikes.


#NotAllRebkellians



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PostPosted: 12/07/18 4:34 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

https://theintercept.com/2018/12/07/george-h-w-bush-iran-contra/


THE EFFUSIVE PRAISE being heaped on former President George H.W. Bush — “a calm and vital statesman” who exuded “decency, moderation, compromise” — risks burying his skeletons with him. One of the most notable skeletons that has gotten scant attention in recent days is his role in the Iran-Contra scandal.

As CIA director in the mid-1970s and as Ronald Reagan’s vice president, Bush helped forge a world of strongmen, wars, cartels, and refugees that continues today. In particular, he was deeply involved in the events that became known as the Iran-Contra scandal, a series of illegal operations that began with a secret effort to arm Contra fighters in Nicaragua in the hopes of toppling the leftist Sandinista government; this effort became connected to drug trafficking, trading weapons for hostages with Iran, and banking scandals.

In 1987, Arthur Liman, chief counsel for the Senate Select Committee on Secret Military Assistance to Iran and the Nicaraguan Opposition, described it as a “secret government-within-a-government … with its own army, air force, diplomatic agents, intelligence operatives and appropriations capacity.” Independent counsel Lawrence Walsh, tasked with investigating Iran-Contra, concluded that the White House cover-up “possibly forestalled timely impeachment proceedings against President Reagan and other officials.” Bush was a central figure in this.

Bush’s spy history is murky. According to Russ Baker, author of “Family of Secrets,” a history of the Bush family, in the late 1950s, Bush allegedly allowed the CIA to use an offshore oil rig he owned near Cuba as a staging ground for anti-Castro Cubans to raid their homeland. In 1967, Bush visited Vietnam as a freshman member of Congress, and Baker claims that Bush was accompanied by his business partner, a CIA agent, to investigate the Phoenix Program, the CIA torture and assassination operation that killed more than 20,000 Vietnamese by 1971.

These pieces come together when Bush served as CIA director from January 1976 to January 1977. During his tenure, he met his future national security adviser, Donald Gregg, who was involved in operations linked to the Phoenix Program as a former CIA station chief in Saigon. There, Gregg fought alongside Cuban exile and CIA agent Felix Rodriguez, who helped track down and kill Cuban revolutionary Che Guevara.

Bush was at the CIA during the height of Operation Condor, an international “kidnap-torture-murder apparatus” run by six Latin American dictatorships and coordinated by Washington. In an Operation Condor plot carried out in October 1976, Chilean secret police assassinated former Chilean diplomat Orlando Letelier and American Ronni Moffitt with a car bomb in Washington, D.C. Bush misled an FBI investigation about Chile’s responsibility. Also as spy chief, Bush met his Panamanian counterpart, Manuel Noriega, already suspected at the time of drug trafficking. (As president, Bush ordered the invasion of Panama in 1989 to remove Noriega from power, who was the country’s ruler by that point.)

As vice president, Bush became an architect of the “secret government” that came into being for the Iran-Contra operations. Official investigations of Iran-Contra are limited to the period after October 1984 when Congress banned military and intelligence services from providing direct or indirect support to the Contras. But Gary Webb’s expose on CIA and Contra links to cocaine smuggling, “The Dark Alliance,” dates to 1981 the covert U.S. support for the Contras. Cobbled together from remnants of Nicaragua’s defeated National Guard, the Contras were notorious for torture, assassination, and other atrocities. The Phoenix-Condor link reached Central America, as the CIA recruited veterans of Argentina’s Dirty War to train the Contras, who ignited a decadelong war that killed an estimated 50,000 Nicaraguans.

Rolling Stone dates Bush’s involvement in the Contra war to 1982, when he reportedly conspired with CIA chief William Casey in an operation they code-named “Black Eagle.” Working under Bush, Donald Gregg managed finances and operations for the Contras, according to Rolling Stone. Rodriguez handled arms flights to Central America and negotiated with military commanders there. Historian Douglas Valentine has claimed that in 1981, Bush authorized these veterans of the Phoenix Program to initiate a “Pink Plan” terror war against Central American insurgents.

Black Eagle masked its operation by relying on the Israeli Mossad to acquire and ship weapons to Central America, employing Panamanian airfields and companies as fronts, according to the Rolling Stone story. But the planes, once emptied of their arms cargo in Central America, were repurposed by Noriega and the Medellín cartel to ship drugs back to the United States. The CIA allegedly stuck a deal with the Medellín cartel’s primary contact, Barry Seal. In return for Seal hauling weapons to the Contras, the CIA protected him as his operations smuggled an estimated $3 billion to $5 billion in drugs into the United States.

The White House also leaned on Gulf State monarchies to cough up more than $40 million for the Contras, violating the 1984 congressional ban known as the Boland Amendment. In 1985, Lt. Col. Oliver North coordinated with Israel to ship more than 2,000 anti-tank missiles to Iran through Israel in exchange for Iran’s assistance in freeing American hostages held in the region — and the profits were used to fund the Contras.

The maneuver, which violated the Arms Export Control Act, was extraordinarily cynical. Iran was mired in a brutal war with Iraq, which was backed by Bush and other senior Reagan administration officials beginning in 1982. Through the BNL bank that would later collapse in scandal, Iraq received more than $4 billion of U.S. Department of Agriculture credits. Most of that money reportedly went to buy weaponry even as Iraq waged chemical warfare against Iran and its own Kurdish citizens.

Both the Contra weapons shipments and the arms-for-hostages deals were exposed in 1986.

Much is still not known about Iran-Contra because of document shredding, deceit, and cover-ups by Reagan-era officials. Congress handcuffed its inquiry by failing to subpoena Oval Office recordings and calling knowledgeable witnesses. Robert Parry, an Associated Press reporter who uncovered the arms-for-drugs trade years before Webb, criticized the media for failing to dig into the story and succumbing to White House pressure and perception management.

On Christmas Eve 1992, then-President Bush decapitated the investigation by Walsh. Bush pardoned six figures, including Secretary of Defense Caspar Weinberger, whose trial was about to begin, with Bush likely called to testify. Walsh was livid. Saying “the Iran-Contra cover-up … has now been completed,” he called Bush a “president who has such a contempt for honesty [and] arrogant disregard for the rule of law.” Bush’s pardons are newly relevant because Bush consulted his attorney general at the time, William Barr, who reportedly did not oppose the pardons. Barr has just been named by President Donald Trump as his nominee for attorney general, where he may once again confront the issue of presidential pardons of senior government officials caught in an illegal conspiracy.

Bush’s role in the Iran-Contra scandal shows that his legacy is far darker than what is being reported amid his death and funeral. The truth is that he coddled dictators and death squads, undermined democratic institutions, and trashed the Constitution. He created the conditions that helped give rise to Donald Trump.



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PostPosted: 12/07/18 6:33 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

justintyme wrote:
tfan wrote:
jammerbirdi wrote:
Howee wrote:
I choose to believe that neither he nor his son were as malevolent and self-serving as Trump.

Those are words. Count the bodies.

So true. The son should have been hung for war crimes along with his minions.
Sad thing is that these days every president has dead bodies he creates via drone strikes.

I was going to say, we selectively point out all the issues with Bush, yet hail Obama and his 13000-is drone strikes.


Point made. And understood.

But then, musn't we go back in time and pillory EVERY president who made decisions that cost lives? Shall we pin the ~700,000 soldier casualties of the Civil War on Lincoln? What's Eisenhauer's or JFK's responsibility in the Indochina thang?

These roles as Commanders in Chief will always endow bloodstains on their hands. But....what is the reason for their decisions? To me, the Iraqi war was an avoidable error. However, its victims are no more 'dead' and wasted than any others, are they? And what will history reveal is the 'benefit' of these conflicts that took so many lives? Civil War? World War 1 or 2? Vietnam? Iraqi War?



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cthskzfn



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PostPosted: 12/07/18 7:08 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Howee wrote:
justintyme wrote:
tfan wrote:
jammerbirdi wrote:
Howee wrote:
I choose to believe that neither he nor his son were as malevolent and self-serving as Trump.

Those are words. Count the bodies.

So true. The son should have been hung for war crimes along with his minions.
Sad thing is that these days every president has dead bodies he creates via drone strikes.

I was going to say, we selectively point out all the issues with Bush, yet hail Obama and his 13000-is drone strikes.


Point made. And understood.

But then, musn't we go back in time and pillory EVERY president who made decisions that cost lives? Shall we pin the ~700,000 soldier casualties of the Civil War on Lincoln? What's Eisenhauer's or JFK's responsibility in the Indochina thang?

These roles as Commanders in Chief will always endow bloodstains on their hands. But....what is the reason for their decisions? To me, the Iraqi war was an avoidable error. However, its victims are no more 'dead' and wasted than any others, are they? And what will history reveal is the 'benefit' of these conflicts that took so many lives? Civil War? World War 1 or 2? Vietnam? Iraqi War?



Ike, JFK, LBJ and Nixon are all war criminals. There was no need for US intervention in SE Asia.

The South seceded in order to maintain their slave economy. Fuck them.

Don't forget Reagan and his ruination of Central American self-determination. All these guys are scumbags, because they essentially chose profit over people, and those innocent people, hundreds of thousands in some cases, died because they did so. It's not like they were backed into a corner, explored all avenues, and had no choice.

That these presidents petted their puppies and sang lullabies to their children makes them no less evil, imo.



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pilight



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PostPosted: 12/07/18 7:16 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The US being directly involved in the dime store cold war going on between Iran and Saudi Arabia starts with Bush and Desert Storm. He stuck our first fist into the Middle East tar baby.



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Make lots of noise
Kiss lots of boys
Or kiss lots of girls
If that's something you're into
When the straight and narrow
Gets a little too straight
Roll up a joint, or don't
Just follow your arrow
Wherever it points, yeah
Follow your arrow
Wherever it points
Howee



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PostPosted: 12/08/18 10:00 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
He stuck our first fist into the Middle East tar baby.


Quote:
"Are you deaf or just rude?" demanded Brer Rabbit, losing his temper. "I can't stand folks that are stuck up! You take off that hat and say 'Howdy-do' or I'm going to give you such a lickin'!"


Joel Chandler Harris, from "Brer Rabbit and The Tar Baby".

A GEORGIA folk tale, no less. Cool



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pilight



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PostPosted: 12/08/18 11:08 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Howee wrote:
pilight wrote:
He stuck our first fist into the Middle East tar baby.


Quote:
"Are you deaf or just rude?" demanded Brer Rabbit, losing his temper. "I can't stand folks that are stuck up! You take off that hat and say 'Howdy-do' or I'm going to give you such a lickin'!"


Joel Chandler Harris, from "Brer Rabbit and The Tar Baby".

A GEORGIA folk tale, no less. Cool


It's a syncretic story, taking elements from the west African tale of Ansasi & Moatia and the Cherokee Tar-Wolf.

Most people know it today from Disney's animated version that appeared in Song of the South.



_________________
Make lots of noise
Kiss lots of boys
Or kiss lots of girls
If that's something you're into
When the straight and narrow
Gets a little too straight
Roll up a joint, or don't
Just follow your arrow
Wherever it points, yeah
Follow your arrow
Wherever it points
5thmantheme



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PostPosted: 12/13/18 6:26 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Grampa wanted to watch the funeral service. The tension in the front rows was palpable. Nobody was talking among the VP or Prez lines, except Hillary with Lynne Cheney. No Tipper Gore.

The 1st speaker was Presidential historian Jon Meacham. The Bushes understand the long game and/or tipping their hand. Former Canada Prime Minister Mulroney gave a good speech. Not because of the speech itself, rather his speaking voice was so melted butter smooth. He could do books on tape for the rest of his life, or say announce grocery lists with sugar plums and pumpkin spice.

Grampa fell asleep so I changed the channel.


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