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Inside the WNBA's Fight for Higher Pay
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ClayK



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PostPosted: 11/01/18 12:40 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
ClayK wrote:
Of course, I'd love to hear a counterargument ...

How about something as basic as 'things change'? How many times did leagues try to get soccer to catch on in the US, only to go bust with people endlessly saying "you'll never get Americans to care about that sport"? Now MLS has been around for 25 years, a couple of teams are drawing more than 40,000, and all 23 teams are averaging more than 15,000 people at every game. Or on a different note, had you even heard of UFC/MMA a decade ago? Now the likes of Conor McGregor and Ronda Rousey are genuine global stars.

I tend to feel the comparisons to where the NBA was 22 years after it was founded are pretty ridiculous, because the overall sporting/entertainment climate is so different, but saying this is just how it is and there's no reason it'll ever be any different seems unnecessarily defeatist. Things can and do change - you just have to try to make sure they move in a positive direction.


I like the "things change" argument ... now, I don't think the product will change much, but conceivably people could decide the product is more attractive tomorrow than it was yesterday.



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calbearman76



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PostPosted: 11/01/18 1:53 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

WNBA marketing must be broad-based. To do otherwise would be to jeopardize the major sponsors. But that doesn't mean that there can not also be some microtargeting. The key is to make sure that it doesn't weaken their primary message.

The issue with marketing to LGBT consumers is that it has been seen as running counter to marketing to families. I believe the most significant part of marketing to the LGBT community is just making clear that they are appreciated and don't have to be hidden or placed in a small corner.
Unfortuntely while fathers want their daughters to have opportunities to succeed in the same way as their sons, they don't want them to become lesbians. Over the past two decades this attitude has lessened in some ways but it still exists to various degrees in different areas.


CamrnCrz1974



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PostPosted: 11/01/18 5:17 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GlennMacGrady wrote:
The author of the Inc. article on Kaepernick/Nike is entitled to his opinion about political marketing, but I simply disagree in general and for sports teams in particular.


Author: Geoffrey James
Professional speaker, award-winning sales blogger, and author of Business Without the Bullsh*t and How To Say It: B2B Selling

vs.

GlennMacGrady
Message board poster

GlennMacGrady wrote:
CamrnCrz1974 wrote:
At Mercury games . . . it was quite common to see the LGBT population to represent 40 percent of in-game attendance.


Interesting claim. How would you know this?


1) I knew many of them.
2) I observed many same-sex couples.
3) Stereotyping based on haircuts. Smile

GlennMacGrady wrote:
And if it's true, what would account for such a disproportionate fan base? (I suppose such questions should require a different thread.) In any event, those data, if accurate, convince me that the WNBA should more aggressively target heterosexual fans in order to remedy the cavernous emptiness in almost all arenas.


Your responses here and your ignoring of my other counterpoints to your "arguments" have convinced me that you are either a satirist or wholly unfamiliar with the demographics of the fan bases of women's team sports in the United States.


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PostPosted: 11/02/18 8:58 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Forbes cuts ties with sports business columnist, deletes piece about WNBA player salaries

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2018/11/02/forbes-cuts-ties-with-sports-business-columnist-deletes-piece-about-wnba-player-salaries/?utm_term=.7ae8b98f7da0

Quote:
The NBA voiced concerns with the piece to Forbes editors, who took the league’s concerns to Berri. As the conflict between writer and outlet unfolded, Forbes took down the piece and dismissed Berri as a contributor.



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Richyyy



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PostPosted: 11/02/18 10:06 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Berri's certainly not the most balanced writer in the world, but it's a shame it came to that. Hopefully someone else will publish the same stuff, because it's a perspective worth having out there.



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Randy



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PostPosted: 11/02/18 10:17 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Was he the guy with the 22% number? if so, it seems his article more than anything else is what has galvanized the players.


Shades



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PostPosted: 11/02/18 10:31 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Randy wrote:
Was he the guy with the 22% number? if so, it seems his article more than anything else is what has galvanized the players.


Pretty sure he’s not including housing and food stipends in his figures. I’m guessing those aren’t included in NBA contracts.

He’s somebody that just crunches numbers and doesn’t know the league very well.

Here’s a tweet where he represents Zandalasini playing in Euroleague as a WNBA player needing to supplement her income overseas. Umm, got it a little backwards there? An example of his sloppiness.




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Randy



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PostPosted: 11/02/18 10:38 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
Randy wrote:
Was he the guy with the 22% number? if so, it seems his article more than anything else is what has galvanized the players.


Pretty sure he’s not including housing and food stipends in his figures. I’m guessing those aren’t included in NBA contracts.

He’s somebody that just crunches numbers and doesn’t know the league very well.



If the number he was crunching were real his work might mean something. As it is most of it was guesswork and questionable. One obvious problem - he based the ticket sales revenue on announced attendance which includes people given free tickets including many that never showed up.....


justintyme



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PostPosted: 11/02/18 12:28 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
Umm, got it a little backwards there? An example of his sloppiness.

Not really, as it is consistent with his overarching point, that the league is looked on as a business venture rather than a long term investment.

The WNBA is the too professional league in the world, and if they paid like it players would dedicate themselves to the W first and foremost, including international players (like they do in the NBA).

The best argument for paying players better is not about WNBA profitably, but rather that the NBA could easily eat the losses without blinking (hell, the NBA eats losses bigger than the entire WNBA on contracts for individual players who don't plan out as expexted). If the league looked at the WNBA as a long term investment and funded it heavily so that it could perform at its optimal level, regardless of short term losses that are easily swallowed, it could potentially build another behemoth league as attitudes change over the next half century. Or, if not, at least they have done what they can to make the world a better place by providing equal opportunity within their chosen industry.



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Randy



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PostPosted: 11/02/18 12:55 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

justintyme wrote:
If the league looked at the WNBA as a long term investment and funded it heavily so that it could perform at its optimal level, regardless of short term losses that are easily swallowed, it could potentially build another behemoth league as attitudes change over the next half century. Or, if not, at least they have done what they can to make the world a better place by providing equal opportunity within their chosen industry.


So do you think the players are really thinking the NBA owners rather than the WNBA owners are the ones that should put up more money? It is pretty well established that the WNBA owenrs are not getting rich (in fact they may be getting less rich) by owning their franchises.


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PostPosted: 11/02/18 2:32 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Randy wrote:
justintyme wrote:
If the league looked at the WNBA as a long term investment and funded it heavily so that it could perform at its optimal level, regardless of short term losses that are easily swallowed, it could potentially build another behemoth league as attitudes change over the next half century. Or, if not, at least they have done what they can to make the world a better place by providing equal opportunity within their chosen industry.


So do you think the players are really thinking the NBA owners rather than the WNBA owners are the ones that should put up more money? It is pretty well established that the WNBA owenrs are not getting rich (in fact they may be getting less rich) by owning their franchises.

I don't think the players are looking for anyone to do this in their renegotiation of the CBA. I think they are looking for smaller quality of life upgrades, and perhaps a restructuring of how contracts break down.

I think the league itself should discuss with the NBA about what sort of money it would take per year to bring the league into competitive balance with oversea salaries and to make sure most players would not need to play overseas, to allow for chartered air travel, and whatever other things they would need to make the league run at an elite level. Then see if that number is an amount the league would be willing to set aside into perpetuity as an investment (or perhaps as charity, however one sees it). The NBA generates $7.4 billion per year, would an investment of say, $100-200 million a year even cause them to blink? Yet what could the league do with that sort of influx of money and what effect could it have on the quality of its product?



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Randy



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PostPosted: 11/02/18 3:00 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

My impression is that the players want a lot more than some minor upgrades to pay, travel, etc - they have certainly made noise in that direction. But it may all be posturing. As for the NBA - they could easily afford to set aside more money for the WNBA, but it would probably be a hard sell for their owners (who themselves have been leaving the WNBA.) I think the current scheme is to make ESPN (and perhaps other partners) pay more for WNBA deals than they would have to otherwise. In other words - give a little less in the NBA TV contract and put that amount in the WNBA contract so that NBA players end up paying half the cost of supporting the WNBA. For both the players and the NBA its pocket change.


ClayK



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PostPosted: 11/02/18 3:04 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I like the idea of the NBA giving the WNBA a lot of money and trying to turn it into a profitable operation at some point down the road ...

But I think the businessmen (and they are men) who run the league would rather spend those few million on a backup shooting guard than on an investment that has shown no significant growth in the past 10 years and whose franchises have zero value.

On the other hand, the NBA could easily decide that its charitable obligation is to spend $40 million or so on the WNBA and tell the accountants it's essentially giving the money away.

I guess it comes down to your feeling about the ultimate potential of the WNBA. Not all sports leagues thrive; some don't thrive for a while but then find an audience; and some find a niche and stay there. I wish I could believe that the WNBA would pay back an NBA investment of tens of millions of dollars, but in 20 years, I don't think it's returned a penny in direct income to the NBA.

Change is possible, of course, but it's hard to see where it would come from. At every level of play, males playing basketball draw significantly larger crowds and community interest than females.



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WNBA 09



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PostPosted: 11/02/18 3:29 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Quote:
“The story I’m telling is really simple,” Berri said. “You’ve made this gesture toward the G League to pay them more money and that’s an investment, but the WNBA wants more money and you call that a cost. That, to me, is the story.”



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pilight



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PostPosted: 11/02/18 3:31 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Randy wrote:
My impression is that the players want a lot more than some minor upgrades to pay, travel, etc - they have certainly made noise in that direction. But it may all be posturing.


Standard negotiation tactic. Ask for everything, then bargain down.



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justintyme



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PostPosted: 11/02/18 4:21 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
Change is possible, of course, but it's hard to see where it would come from. At every level of play, males playing basketball draw significantly larger crowds and community interest than females.

It comes from culture change as the old die and the next generation becomes the middle age consumers with extra spending cash (and historically are the biggest sports fans). Remember, for most of the population, women's professional sports is something they were not born into nor was it normalized for them automatically. When they were forming their understandings of what is "entertaining" about sports, it was only men. They can't help but use that as a baseline.

The most recent generation, a much more socially conscious generation, a generation that sees true equality as a cornerstone of morality, will define our culture going forward, and their children who will be utterly immersed in what we now consider "progressive" culture, will 50 years down the road, be the sports consumer.

So the goal should be to make sure that the best possible basketball is being played now, to help normalize this, so that in 50 years it is inconceivable to the average sports fan that women's sports was ever considered less entertaining than men's, and they look back upon us as cultural cavemen (and women).



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ClayK



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PostPosted: 11/03/18 10:35 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

justintyme wrote:
ClayK wrote:
Change is possible, of course, but it's hard to see where it would come from. At every level of play, males playing basketball draw significantly larger crowds and community interest than females.

It comes from culture change as the old die and the next generation becomes the middle age consumers with extra spending cash (and historically are the biggest sports fans). Remember, for most of the population, women's professional sports is something they were not born into nor was it normalized for them automatically. When they were forming their understandings of what is "entertaining" about sports, it was only men. They can't help but use that as a baseline.

The most recent generation, a much more socially conscious generation, a generation that sees true equality as a cornerstone of morality, will define our culture going forward, and their children who will be utterly immersed in what we now consider "progressive" culture, will 50 years down the road, be the sports consumer.

So the goal should be to make sure that the best possible basketball is being played now, to help normalize this, so that in 50 years it is inconceivable to the average sports fan that women's sports was ever considered less entertaining than men's, and they look back upon us as cultural cavemen (and women).


It is possible that the vision outlined above is as utopian as Marx's vision that once children were educated and immersed in the egalitarian values of communism that they would happily give according to their ability and take only according to their need.

It is also possible that it is what will happen moving forward, and slowly but surely more and more sports fans will appreciate female athletes as much as male athletes.

History and anthropology suggest that male competition has always been more attractive to human beings than female, but that could change given cultural changes -- and we are seeing evidence of those changes around the world in more significant areas than sports (genital mutilation is declining in Africa, #MeToo, etc.).

In the short run, though, convincing NBA owners to invest tens of millions of dollars per year more in the WNBA is still a pretty tough sell. A payoff 50 years from now is a little remote for older males, so it would seem that the most likely source of the huge investment needed to make the WNBA a year-round league would have to come from younger men and women with lots of money, with women in that category most likely being the key.

So who are they, and how can they be convinced to invest in the WNBA?



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Hawkeye



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PostPosted: 11/03/18 10:09 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GlennMacGrady wrote:
Hawkeye wrote:
Marketing to the LGBT community is a must.


Why? That's a tiny demographic -- 4.5% of the U.S. population according to the most recent Gallup Poll, a result that's probably above average for historical polls on this subject. 4.5% is less than the percentage of Asians or Methodists in the U.S. population. Would targeted marketing to Asians or Methodists be a "must" for the WNBA? No, it sounds silly.

In addition, while marketing based on identity politics may seem like a virtue-signalling SJW thing to do, the majority of Americans are likely turned off or offended by injecting cultural politics blatantly into sports. It's not smart or successful business to alienate more customers than you attract with targeted marketing.

It would make much more business sense to market to a much larger and noncontroversial demographic, such as another you mention: women in general.


LGBT may be a small percentage of the total US population, but they are a very large percentage of women's basketball and women's sports fans. To dismiss the group and being to small to market to is an error. Writing off the group by looking at the entire population as opposed to the realities of the audience misses the opportunity.


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PostPosted: 11/03/18 10:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GlennMacGrady wrote:
Luuuc wrote:
If there's logic here then I'm not seeing it.


A similar sports example is curling. I enjoy watching curling immensely, but an even tinier fraction of sports fans are interested in curling than pro WBB. To them, it's just an unwatchable repetition of boring rocks sliding on ice. No amount of marketing would significantly change that collective opinion. And it wouldn't be any different if the curlers were 98% or 2% LGBT (or Methodist or Asian).


It all depends on what's on. When I was deployed to Afghanistan during the winter olympics, curling was all over Armed Forces Network. The first couple days I was the only one on the coach watching. As it progresses, a few more came and sat down, not cheering or getting excited as they didn't know what was going on. After a bit over a week, I had about 10 other Air Force folks around me all jumping and hollering "SWEEP SWEEP SWEEP!!! STOP!! YEAH!" as the rock went down the ice. Exposure is the key to advancing any sport.


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PostPosted: 11/04/18 5:18 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Hawkeye wrote:
GlennMacGrady wrote:
Hawkeye wrote:
Marketing to the LGBT community is a must.


Why? That's a tiny demographic -- 4.5% of the U.S. population according to the most recent Gallup Poll, a result that's probably above average for historical polls on this subject. 4.5% is less than the percentage of Asians or Methodists in the U.S. population. Would targeted marketing to Asians or Methodists be a "must" for the WNBA? No, it sounds silly.

In addition, while marketing based on identity politics may seem like a virtue-signalling SJW thing to do, the majority of Americans are likely turned off or offended by injecting cultural politics blatantly into sports. It's not smart or successful business to alienate more customers than you attract with targeted marketing.

It would make much more business sense to market to a much larger and noncontroversial demographic, such as another you mention: women in general.


LGBT may be a small percentage of the total US population, but they are a very large percentage of women's basketball and women's sports fans. To dismiss the group and being to small to market to is an error. Writing off the group by looking at the entire population as opposed to the realities of the audience misses the opportunity.


That’s precisely why you don’t have to market to them. They already attend and seek out the WNBA without marketing. If the goal is to become as popular as the NBA, wouldn’t it make sense to market to the mainstream NBA fans.... make them want to attend games?



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Randy



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PostPosted: 11/04/18 7:16 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Haven't they already tried that? Remember the "Basketball is basketball" ads on TV.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/6-1P83-YThk" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>


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PostPosted: 11/04/18 8:07 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

This is why marketing a league like the WNBA isn't as easy as it might seem. Do you try to maximise the groups who've already shown interest in the league - LGBT and families with young kids - or do you assume you've already got them so you can focus elsewhere? Do you target the group who 'should' be supporting your league - women - or give up on them because of the previous lack of interest and generally lower interest in sport? And in the background of that, you know that long-term you're unlikely to be a genuine 'major' sport without breaking into the main national sporting fanbase - male, white, 18-50ish - so how much time/money do you spend trying to get that group interested?

All with the backdrop of having a limited amount of money to spend on marketing. If you're the NBA, you could just do all of that, with different campaigns if you want, and adverts in different mediums/placements/times. Outside of the ads during NBA games that they likely get for free, the WNBA won't be able to afford prime placement for ads. So you either have to get more inventive, or you target more specifically.

We criticise them a lot, and I'm sure they screw things up and deserve it on occasion, but I don't think this stuff is that easy.



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ClayK



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PostPosted: 11/04/18 11:14 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
This is why marketing a league like the WNBA isn't as easy as it might seem. Do you try to maximise the groups who've already shown interest in the league - LGBT and families with young kids - or do you assume you've already got them so you can focus elsewhere? Do you target the group who 'should' be supporting your league - women - or give up on them because of the previous lack of interest and generally lower interest in sport? And in the background of that, you know that long-term you're unlikely to be a genuine 'major' sport without breaking into the main national sporting fanbase - male, white, 18-50ish - so how much time/money do you spend trying to get that group interested?

All with the backdrop of having a limited amount of money to spend on marketing. If you're the NBA, you could just do all of that, with different campaigns if you want, and adverts in different mediums/placements/times. Outside of the ads during NBA games that they likely get for free, the WNBA won't be able to afford prime placement for ads. So you either have to get more inventive, or you target more specifically.

We criticise them a lot, and I'm sure they screw things up and deserve it on occasion, but I don't think this stuff is that easy.


Another great point ... and let's not forget that in the 12 WNBA markets, recognition and interest is much higher. If 12 more owners were willing to take the plunge, that would help the marketing enormously.

But finding those 12 owners -- who would be willing to lose several million dollars in the first few years and own a franchise that so far (after 20 years) has no value -- is a major problem. I think we all hoped we'd find one of those 12 in NYC when Dolan wanted to sell the Liberty, but no such luck.



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PostPosted: 11/04/18 2:34 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

It might be easier to find owners if they had no salary cap and unlimited free agency - then billionaires could spend as much as they wanted to buy a championship, while penny pinching millionaires (e.g. the current owners) could spend as little as they like. That seems to be the model used overseas where the WNBA players get big paychecks.


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PostPosted: 11/04/18 9:01 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Randy wrote:
It might be easier to find owners if they had no salary cap and unlimited free agency - then billionaires could spend as much as they wanted to buy a championship, while penny pinching millionaires (e.g. the current owners) could spend as little as they like. That seems to be the model used overseas where the WNBA players get big paychecks.


The overseas model is very odd, compared to the American way of thinking. Some of the clubs paying big salaries don't even charge admission ...

But that said, no salary cap? I don't think even the owner with the most billions would go for that ...



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PostPosted: 11/05/18 2:17 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

In a lot of areas, the biggest women’s college basketball demographic seems to be older (at least empty nest) couples. But some UConn fan once said that they asked AARP age UConn fans why they weren’t going to Sun games, and the response was “when they are older it just isn’t the same”.


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PostPosted: 11/05/18 1:43 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
Hawkeye wrote:
GlennMacGrady wrote:
Hawkeye wrote:
Marketing to the LGBT community is a must.


Why? That's a tiny demographic -- 4.5% of the U.S. population according to the most recent Gallup Poll, a result that's probably above average for historical polls on this subject. 4.5% is less than the percentage of Asians or Methodists in the U.S. population. Would targeted marketing to Asians or Methodists be a "must" for the WNBA? No, it sounds silly.

In addition, while marketing based on identity politics may seem like a virtue-signalling SJW thing to do, the majority of Americans are likely turned off or offended by injecting cultural politics blatantly into sports. It's not smart or successful business to alienate more customers than you attract with targeted marketing.

It would make much more business sense to market to a much larger and noncontroversial demographic, such as another you mention: women in general.


LGBT may be a small percentage of the total US population, but they are a very large percentage of women's basketball and women's sports fans. To dismiss the group and being to small to market to is an error. Writing off the group by looking at the entire population as opposed to the realities of the audience misses the opportunity.


That’s precisely why you don’t have to market to them. They already attend and seek out the WNBA without marketing. If the goal is to become as popular as the NBA, wouldn’t it make sense to market to the mainstream NBA fans.... make them want to attend games?


If you ignore them and take them for granted, the stay home and refuse to support the league, even if they are fans of it---Just like the Clinton voters in 2016.

If they were already coming to games in droves, why then when Donna took over did attendance drop by nearly 50%?? Could it be the WNBA turned their backs on the LGBT community to be "family friendly"? The WNBA ignored them and took them for granted and they stayed away.


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PostPosted: 11/05/18 1:44 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Randy wrote:
Haven't they already tried that? Remember the "Basketball is basketball" ads on TV.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/6-1P83-YThk" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>


Marketing to NBA fans


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PostPosted: 11/05/18 3:20 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Randy wrote:
Haven't they already tried that? Remember the "Basketball is basketball" ads on TV.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/6-1P83-YThk" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>


They had the right idea, but maybe something higher quality that I couldn’t splice together myself on a computer. Maybe the scene could be a pickup game with some of your more recognizable WNBA and NBA players actually playing together.

Just more basic advertising is needed too. Let people know that League Pass is only $16.99, and let people know more frequently when the bigger games are on ESPN. Get some ads on ABC.



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PostPosted: 11/06/18 12:33 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Should get ads on daytime TV---game shows and soap operas. LOTS of eyeballs there and LOTS of FEMALE eyeballs there.


ClayK



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PostPosted: 11/06/18 10:20 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Hawkeye wrote:
Should get ads on daytime TV---game shows and soap operas. LOTS of eyeballs there and LOTS of FEMALE eyeballs there.


In the early days, the WNBA was on Lifetime (which may or may not exist any more). They gave it a shot ...



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Happycappie25



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PostPosted: 11/07/18 7:12 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
Hawkeye wrote:
Should get ads on daytime TV---game shows and soap operas. LOTS of eyeballs there and LOTS of FEMALE eyeballs there.


In the early days, the WNBA was on Lifetime (which may or may not exist any more). They gave it a shot ...


Not only does Lifetime exist...they are NWSLs primary partner and content producer

So they're all in on soccer opportunities missed in my book

Otherwise they're known for really awful tv movies.



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ClayK



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PostPosted: 11/07/18 8:39 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Happycappie25 wrote:
ClayK wrote:
Hawkeye wrote:
Should get ads on daytime TV---game shows and soap operas. LOTS of eyeballs there and LOTS of FEMALE eyeballs there.


In the early days, the WNBA was on Lifetime (which may or may not exist any more). They gave it a shot ...


Not only does Lifetime exist...they are NWSLs primary partner and content producer

So they're all in on soccer opportunities missed in my book

Otherwise they're known for really awful tv movies.


Now that's interesting ... I had no idea.

So if the NWSL is working for them, maybe they will do more on the WNBA. Obviously, ESPN won't give them any games to cover, but they could do a WNBA show or two.



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calbearman76



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PostPosted: 11/07/18 10:35 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The female eyeballs on Lifetime have shown very little interest in women's basketball, and I doubt there will be anymore interest in soccer. "Soccer moms" are not soccer fans, they are fans of their children. From what I have observed the WNBA is much more a father-daughter experience than mother-daughter.


Richyyy



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PostPosted: 11/07/18 10:59 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

calbearman76 wrote:
From what I have observed the WNBA is much more a father-daughter experience than mother-daughter.

Have they ever targeted that specific group with advertising? Not the generic 'families', but just dad-daughter. Because I noticed that even in Tenerife for Worlds, never mind the WNBA - you'd see these big tattooed guys who'd scare the crap out of you in a dark alley but they're happily walking along holding the hand of their adorable little girls. It's one of the few places where women's sports have a positive crossover point. It's a sporting event, so the kind of thing guys are used to going to anyway; and women are the focus, so the daughters get to see positive role models and evidence that women can achieve these levels just as much as men can.

Plus if you can draw those groups you hit two positive demographics for the future - average male sports fans, and little girls who grow up to be your future audience/players.



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Randy



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PostPosted: 11/07/18 12:08 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
calbearman76 wrote:
From what I have observed the WNBA is much more a father-daughter experience than mother-daughter.

Have they ever targeted that specific group with advertising? Not the generic 'families', but just dad-daughter. Because I noticed that even in Tenerife for Worlds, never mind the WNBA - you'd see these big tattooed guys who'd scare the crap out of you in a dark alley but they're happily walking along holding the hand of their adorable little girls. It's one of the few places where women's sports have a positive crossover point. It's a sporting event, so the kind of thing guys are used to going to anyway; and women are the focus, so the daughters get to see positive role models and evidence that women can achieve these levels just as much as men can.

Plus if you can draw those groups you hit two positive demographics for the future - average male sports fans, and little girls who grow up to be your future audience/players.



Father's day was promoted as Dads and Daughters day though I don't recall whether there was TV advertising of that and I don't think they promoted anything else related to Dad's/Daughters.

I think the fact is they have tried just about everything over the last 20 years and we all know the results.


hyperetic



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PostPosted: 11/11/18 2:07 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Katie Nolan has issues with WNBA players not being paid enough

https://youtu.be/4kSwF2oAqVI
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