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tfan
Joined: 31 May 2010 Posts: 9628
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Posted: 11/05/18 2:17 am ::: |
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In a lot of areas, the biggest women’s college basketball demographic seems to be older (at least empty nest) couples. But some UConn fan once said that they asked AARP age UConn fans why they weren’t going to Sun games, and the response was “when they are older it just isn’t the same”.
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Hawkeye
Joined: 10 Aug 2010 Posts: 760 Location: Houston, TX
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Posted: 11/05/18 1:43 pm ::: |
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Shades wrote: |
Hawkeye wrote: |
GlennMacGrady wrote: |
Hawkeye wrote: |
Marketing to the LGBT community is a must. |
Why? That's a tiny demographic -- 4.5% of the U.S. population according to the most recent Gallup Poll, a result that's probably above average for historical polls on this subject. 4.5% is less than the percentage of Asians or Methodists in the U.S. population. Would targeted marketing to Asians or Methodists be a "must" for the WNBA? No, it sounds silly.
In addition, while marketing based on identity politics may seem like a virtue-signalling SJW thing to do, the majority of Americans are likely turned off or offended by injecting cultural politics blatantly into sports. It's not smart or successful business to alienate more customers than you attract with targeted marketing.
It would make much more business sense to market to a much larger and noncontroversial demographic, such as another you mention: women in general. |
LGBT may be a small percentage of the total US population, but they are a very large percentage of women's basketball and women's sports fans. To dismiss the group and being to small to market to is an error. Writing off the group by looking at the entire population as opposed to the realities of the audience misses the opportunity. |
That’s precisely why you don’t have to market to them. They already attend and seek out the WNBA without marketing. If the goal is to become as popular as the NBA, wouldn’t it make sense to market to the mainstream NBA fans.... make them want to attend games? |
If you ignore them and take them for granted, the stay home and refuse to support the league, even if they are fans of it---Just like the Clinton voters in 2016.
If they were already coming to games in droves, why then when Donna took over did attendance drop by nearly 50%?? Could it be the WNBA turned their backs on the LGBT community to be "family friendly"? The WNBA ignored them and took them for granted and they stayed away.
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Hawkeye
Joined: 10 Aug 2010 Posts: 760 Location: Houston, TX
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Posted: 11/05/18 1:44 pm ::: |
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Randy wrote: |
Haven't they already tried that? Remember the "Basketball is basketball" ads on TV.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/6-1P83-YThk" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe> |
Marketing to NBA fans
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006 Posts: 63781
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Posted: 11/05/18 3:20 pm ::: |
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Randy wrote: |
Haven't they already tried that? Remember the "Basketball is basketball" ads on TV.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/6-1P83-YThk" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe> |
They had the right idea, but maybe something higher quality that I couldn’t splice together myself on a computer. Maybe the scene could be a pickup game with some of your more recognizable WNBA and NBA players actually playing together.
Just more basic advertising is needed too. Let people know that League Pass is only $16.99, and let people know more frequently when the bigger games are on ESPN. Get some ads on ABC.
_________________ Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
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Hawkeye
Joined: 10 Aug 2010 Posts: 760 Location: Houston, TX
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Posted: 11/06/18 12:33 am ::: |
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Should get ads on daytime TV---game shows and soap operas. LOTS of eyeballs there and LOTS of FEMALE eyeballs there.
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005 Posts: 11150
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Posted: 11/06/18 10:20 am ::: |
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Hawkeye wrote: |
Should get ads on daytime TV---game shows and soap operas. LOTS of eyeballs there and LOTS of FEMALE eyeballs there. |
In the early days, the WNBA was on Lifetime (which may or may not exist any more). They gave it a shot ...
_________________ Oṃ Tāre Tuttāre Ture Svāhā
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Happycappie25
Joined: 07 Feb 2006 Posts: 4174 Location: QUEENS!!!!
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Posted: 11/07/18 7:12 am ::: |
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ClayK wrote: |
Hawkeye wrote: |
Should get ads on daytime TV---game shows and soap operas. LOTS of eyeballs there and LOTS of FEMALE eyeballs there. |
In the early days, the WNBA was on Lifetime (which may or may not exist any more). They gave it a shot ... |
Not only does Lifetime exist...they are NWSLs primary partner and content producer
So they're all in on soccer opportunities missed in my book
Otherwise they're known for really awful tv movies.
_________________ "Leave it to the NCAA women's basketball committee to turn a glass slipper into glass ceiling" Graham Hays
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005 Posts: 11150
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Posted: 11/07/18 8:39 am ::: |
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Happycappie25 wrote: |
ClayK wrote: |
Hawkeye wrote: |
Should get ads on daytime TV---game shows and soap operas. LOTS of eyeballs there and LOTS of FEMALE eyeballs there. |
In the early days, the WNBA was on Lifetime (which may or may not exist any more). They gave it a shot ... |
Not only does Lifetime exist...they are NWSLs primary partner and content producer
So they're all in on soccer opportunities missed in my book
Otherwise they're known for really awful tv movies. |
Now that's interesting ... I had no idea.
So if the NWSL is working for them, maybe they will do more on the WNBA. Obviously, ESPN won't give them any games to cover, but they could do a WNBA show or two.
_________________ Oṃ Tāre Tuttāre Ture Svāhā
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calbearman76
Joined: 02 Nov 2009 Posts: 5155 Location: Carson City
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Posted: 11/07/18 10:35 am ::: |
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The female eyeballs on Lifetime have shown very little interest in women's basketball, and I doubt there will be anymore interest in soccer. "Soccer moms" are not soccer fans, they are fans of their children. From what I have observed the WNBA is much more a father-daughter experience than mother-daughter.
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Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005 Posts: 24356 Location: London
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Posted: 11/07/18 10:59 am ::: |
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calbearman76 wrote: |
From what I have observed the WNBA is much more a father-daughter experience than mother-daughter. |
Have they ever targeted that specific group with advertising? Not the generic 'families', but just dad-daughter. Because I noticed that even in Tenerife for Worlds, never mind the WNBA - you'd see these big tattooed guys who'd scare the crap out of you in a dark alley but they're happily walking along holding the hand of their adorable little girls. It's one of the few places where women's sports have a positive crossover point. It's a sporting event, so the kind of thing guys are used to going to anyway; and women are the focus, so the daughters get to see positive role models and evidence that women can achieve these levels just as much as men can.
Plus if you can draw those groups you hit two positive demographics for the future - average male sports fans, and little girls who grow up to be your future audience/players. |
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Randy
Joined: 08 Oct 2011 Posts: 10911
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Posted: 11/07/18 12:08 pm ::: |
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Richyyy wrote: |
calbearman76 wrote: |
From what I have observed the WNBA is much more a father-daughter experience than mother-daughter. |
Have they ever targeted that specific group with advertising? Not the generic 'families', but just dad-daughter. Because I noticed that even in Tenerife for Worlds, never mind the WNBA - you'd see these big tattooed guys who'd scare the crap out of you in a dark alley but they're happily walking along holding the hand of their adorable little girls. It's one of the few places where women's sports have a positive crossover point. It's a sporting event, so the kind of thing guys are used to going to anyway; and women are the focus, so the daughters get to see positive role models and evidence that women can achieve these levels just as much as men can.
Plus if you can draw those groups you hit two positive demographics for the future - average male sports fans, and little girls who grow up to be your future audience/players. |
Father's day was promoted as Dads and Daughters day though I don't recall whether there was TV advertising of that and I don't think they promoted anything else related to Dad's/Daughters.
I think the fact is they have tried just about everything over the last 20 years and we all know the results.
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hyperetic
Joined: 11 Oct 2005 Posts: 5361 Location: Fayetteville
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scrappy
Joined: 18 May 2006 Posts: 1880
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Posted: 11/16/18 2:41 pm ::: |
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just fold the league and suspend it for a couple years. as a matter of fact, players should start their own league, then they can pay whatever they think the deserve.
_________________ She's blonde, she can block. She is 6 foot five, she can deny. Though she is tall, she definitely can score. ya'al think she is quite nice, but on the court she can put up a fight.
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WNBA 09
Joined: 26 Jun 2009 Posts: 12538 Location: Dallas , Texas
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Posted: 11/16/18 5:11 pm ::: |
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scrappy wrote: |
just fold the league and suspend it for a couple years. as a matter of fact, players should start their own league, then they can pay whatever they think the deserve. |
Or just bring back the ABL . They were fine before the NBA took over then gave up .
_________________ 3-Time WNBA Champion-3-Time National Champion-4-Time Olympic Champion....And Yes DT "We Got Confeti" lol
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005 Posts: 11150
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Posted: 11/17/18 11:54 am ::: |
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WNBA 09 wrote: |
scrappy wrote: |
just fold the league and suspend it for a couple years. as a matter of fact, players should start their own league, then they can pay whatever they think the deserve. |
Or just bring back the ABL . They were fine before the NBA took over then gave up . |
The ABL was never fine ... it was bleeding money from day one, in part because the player salaries were unrealistic.
_________________ Oṃ Tāre Tuttāre Ture Svāhā
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WNBA 09
Joined: 26 Jun 2009 Posts: 12538 Location: Dallas , Texas
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Posted: 11/19/18 1:35 pm ::: |
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ClayK wrote: |
WNBA 09 wrote: |
scrappy wrote: |
just fold the league and suspend it for a couple years. as a matter of fact, players should start their own league, then they can pay whatever they think the deserve. |
Or just bring back the ABL . They were fine before the NBA took over then gave up . |
The ABL was never fine ... it was bleeding money from day one, in part because the player salaries were unrealistic. |
So has the WNBA always has been without those ABL salaries .
_________________ 3-Time WNBA Champion-3-Time National Champion-4-Time Olympic Champion....And Yes DT "We Got Confeti" lol
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hyperetic
Joined: 11 Oct 2005 Posts: 5361 Location: Fayetteville
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Posted: 11/19/18 2:04 pm ::: |
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I think their request for a comparable percentage of the profits is not asking too much. |
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005 Posts: 11150
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Posted: 11/19/18 2:13 pm ::: |
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hyperetic wrote: |
I think their request for a comparable percentage of the profits is not asking too much. |
I think they're asking for a percentage of the revenue, which is somewhat different. If they got a percentage of the profits, they might not get paid at all.
_________________ Oṃ Tāre Tuttāre Ture Svāhā
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Luuuc #NATC
Joined: 10 Feb 2005 Posts: 21929
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Posted: 11/19/18 8:44 pm ::: |
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WNBA CBA Negotiations: Adam Silver, Terri Jackson Discuss The Stakes And The Grand Bargain
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Acting WNBA president Mark Tatum responded on ESPN's Outside The Lines last month that "the Players' Association has all of those financials. They have access to that. We’ve shared it with them, and what we are looking forward to doing is having a fully open, transparent and engaging discussion around the business realities that exist in the league.”
That would seem to be a difficult place from which to build trust, and weeks later, that problem has only deepened. As a league source put it, "between the professional staffs of the Players' Association and the league office, there is zero disagreement on financials."
Terri Jackson, executive director of the WNBPA, disagrees that there is zero disagreement.
"That would be an incorrect statement," Jackson said by email when asked about that quote. |
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There are 12 WNBA team owners, whose teams collectively own 50% of the WNBA. The other 50% of the WNBA is owned, collectively, by the 30 NBA owners, through a company called "WNBA Holdings." What this means is that in order to sign off on any collective bargaining agreement, Silver needs to convince not only the WNBA owners who are directly affected by any changes, but also a majority of the 30 NBA owners, many of whom are involved with the league only in the sense that it appears as a single line item on their budget. |
https://www.forbes.com/sites/howardmegdal/2018/11/19/wnba-cba-adam-silver-terri-jackson-discuss-stakes-and-the-grand-bargain/
_________________ Thanks for calling. I wait all night for calls like these.
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Randy
Joined: 08 Oct 2011 Posts: 10911
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005 Posts: 11150
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Posted: 11/20/18 11:37 am ::: |
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That's really interesting ... I had thought the NBA contributed to the funding of the league office, to the tune of several million dollars, but if the NBA actually owns half of the WNBA, it could explain a lot of things.
For example, if the NBA is absorbing half the losses, then it makes it much less painful to own a franchise (though of course they presumably take half the profits).
But that is also puzzling, because does the NBA own half of each franchise? Or a higher percentage, maybe all, in some others?
It does make sense, though, because the NBA definitely wants a monopoly on all professional basketball in North America (excluding college, of course), and this way it's a relatively inexpensive way of keeping a rival women's league from springing up -- which would surely happen if the WNBA folded.
_________________ Oṃ Tāre Tuttāre Ture Svāhā
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tfan
Joined: 31 May 2010 Posts: 9628
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Posted: 11/20/18 5:15 pm ::: |
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Quote: |
Nneka Ogwumike: "we never get to see the numbers. We don't know how the league is doing."
Mark Tatum: "the Players' Association has all of those financials."
league source: "between the professional staffs of the Players' Association and the league office, there is zero disagreement on financials."
Terri Jackson: "As I’ve commented earlier in the week, we are awaiting complete information from the league." |
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 66922 Location: Where the action is
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005 Posts: 11150
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Posted: 12/04/18 10:39 am ::: |
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An interesting article ...
So one underlying assumption is that the WNBA owners are actually making a profit off of the league, and that profit -- or part of it -- should be going to the players.
This may or may not be true, but it doesn't seem likely to me. One issue, it seems to me, is the cost of the venues (as we've seen in New York). In general, the WNBA has opted to pay more for professional venues in order to upgrade its image, and the percentage of seats sold in those arenas is considerably less than the percentage of seats sold by the Sonics in their arena.
If we assume that the $60 million in revenue is correct, and the $18 million increase needed to get to 50% of revenue is correct, then each of the teams either has or would have to be able to find $1.5 million (on average) to give to the players.
If the teams are making $1.5 million in profit each year, they could give all of that money to the players, keeping none for themselves. More logically, and more fair, would be a 67%-33% split for the players -- which would require, according to my likely inaccurate mental math, a profit of $2.2 million or so per team.
But if each team were making $2.2 million per year, one would think a franchise like the Liberty would have value on the open market, but since no WNBA team has ever really been sold, that seems unlikely.
But let's say each team is making $1 million per year (which also seems unlikely given that franchises have no value). If they allocate $670,000 to the players, they still need to come up with $900,000 or so to get to the $1.5 million mark.
So what cuts in other expenses do teams make that saves/generates $900,000? My sense is that's a pretty huge operational cut, and there's not that much fat in any WNBA budget.
The bottom line, so to speak, is that if indeed the WNBA had money to spare to increase player salaries, its franchises would be profitable enough to generate investor interest. But since there is no investor interest, it seems highly unlikely that there is that much profit being generated, or that there is that much excess spending in administrative and operational costs.
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Nixtreefan
Joined: 14 Nov 2012 Posts: 2539
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Posted: 12/04/18 10:55 am ::: |
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Maybe the coaches are getting too much money or some of them as it seems relative to the season and the fact that some are getting more than double the top players.
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