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LitePal



Joined: 08 Sep 2005
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PostPosted: 11/03/18 11:34 am    ::: Anonymous Coach Survey Reply Reply with quote

This is actually fun because it's like a Rebkell poll only with coaches.

The only thing that is strange is seeing McCallie on the "Overrated" list since almost no one except her and the Duke AD think she's anything special. The other two "Overrated" are Aston and Close, which are very sensible choices.

https://highposthoops.com/2018/11/02/coaches-get-candid-anonymous-ncaa-coach-poll/


Howee



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PostPosted: 11/03/18 2:10 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Well, THERE'S some interesting fodder for us Action-Starved fans! Laughing

Many of those categories and selections leave one pondering, "What were they thinking?"

For example, I don't think Rueck is 'underrated'. Maybe to newbies, but....most people who've been following the game KNOW how spectacular his success has been, given where he started and where he is now. And Doug Bruno? His quality is legendary....he's HOF material, even if he never wins a championship. The Mid-Major coaches named are definitely underrated, imo. And Karl Smesko deserves to be in those ranks, imo.

And, re: "Most underrated player"....Ruthy? Really? She has justifiably already earned some awesome accolades. What do 'they' mean by "underrated"? I think most of her opponents (and fans) have her rated just fine.



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root_thing



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PostPosted: 11/03/18 2:23 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I'm surprised so many people want to grab a beer with Holly Warlick.



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Fighting Artichoke



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PostPosted: 11/03/18 3:53 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Why did they show the Notre Dame cathedral in France as the picture for the University of Notre Dame? Oops!


Howee



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PostPosted: 11/03/18 4:58 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Fighting Artichoke wrote:
Why did they show the Notre Dame cathedral in France as the picture for the University of Notre Dame? Oops!


I *thought* that didn't resemble South Bend....or ANY part of Indiana. Laughing



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ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 11/03/18 5:38 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:
I'm surprised so many people want to grab a beer with Holly Warlick.


I think she rides a big Harley, does long distance rides, seems like a nice person.

I think she might be interesting to have a beer with.


LitePal



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PostPosted: 11/03/18 5:48 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Nikki Fargas also rides a big Harley and does long distances rides. No comment on her as a nice person. I suspect a conversation over beer with her would be all about her.

I agree Holly seems like a very cool lady.


ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 11/03/18 6:07 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

LitePal wrote:
Nikki Fargas also rides a big Harley and does long distances rides. No comment on her as a nice person. I suspect a conversation over beer with her would be all about her.

I agree Holly seems like a very cool lady.


I think Holly and Nikki together run some annual long distance charity ride for cancer.


myrtle



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PostPosted: 11/03/18 6:29 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Quote:
Question 8: You have the #1 pick in a draft of every current college player (in their current class). Who do you pick with the goal of winning a national championship before they graduate?

1. Sabrina Ionescu, Oregon

2. Megan Walker, UConn

3. Satou Sabally, Oregon


Wonder if they mis-read the question. Ionescu understandably but Walker and Sabally? I thought maybe they thought it who was most likely to win one. Even if you're going strictly with underclassmen to give them multiple years, this doesn't seem like a wise draft to me.



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summertime blues



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PostPosted: 11/03/18 10:23 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
LitePal wrote:
Nikki Fargas also rides a big Harley and does long distances rides. No comment on her as a nice person. I suspect a conversation over beer with her would be all about her.

I agree Holly seems like a very cool lady.


I think Holly and Nikki together run some annual long distance charity ride for cancer.


Holly is actually a hoot behind the scenes. Mikes and cameras make her freeze up.



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FrozenLVFan



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PostPosted: 11/04/18 8:35 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

summertime blues wrote:
ArtBest23 wrote:
LitePal wrote:
Nikki Fargas also rides a big Harley and does long distances rides. No comment on her as a nice person. I suspect a conversation over beer with her would be all about her.

I agree Holly seems like a very cool lady.


I think Holly and Nikki together run some annual long distance charity ride for cancer.


Holly is actually a hoot behind the scenes. Mikes and cameras make her freeze up.


That may be one reason her players seem to love her and a lot of Tenn fans hate her. I have a lot of respect for Holly, but I think she would benefit tremendously from taking a public speaking course in the off-season.

Do you all think this survey is legit? I can't imagine a lot of coaches calling someone else out for being overrated even if done anonymously. That's pretty classless. Possibly only 10 coaches out of the 235 solicited even bothered to respond.


Fighting Artichoke



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PostPosted: 11/04/18 10:08 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

FrozenLVFan wrote:
summertime blues wrote:
ArtBest23 wrote:
LitePal wrote:
Nikki Fargas also rides a big Harley and does long distances rides. No comment on her as a nice person. I suspect a conversation over beer with her would be all about her.

I agree Holly seems like a very cool lady.


I think Holly and Nikki together run some annual long distance charity ride for cancer.


Holly is actually a hoot behind the scenes. Mikes and cameras make her freeze up.


That may be one reason her players seem to love her and a lot of Tenn fans hate her. I have a lot of respect for Holly, but I think she would benefit tremendously from taking a public speaking course in the off-season.

Do you all think this survey is legit? I can't imagine a lot of coaches calling someone else out for being overrated even if done anonymously. That's pretty classless. Possibly only 10 coaches out of the 235 solicited even bothered to respond.

+1


Shades



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PostPosted: 11/04/18 10:45 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

FrozenLVFan wrote:

Do you all think this survey is legit? I can't imagine a lot of coaches calling someone else out for being overrated even if done anonymously. That's pretty classless.


Well it is a Megdal production, so he tends to give the hardcore fan what they want instead of the usual powder puff stuff associated with classy articles. I’m a little indifferent about what coaches think about themselves. Survey the fans about the coaches and broadcasters.



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ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 11/04/18 4:30 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

FrozenLVFan wrote:
summertime blues wrote:
ArtBest23 wrote:
LitePal wrote:
Nikki Fargas also rides a big Harley and does long distances rides. No comment on her as a nice person. I suspect a conversation over beer with her would be all about her.

I agree Holly seems like a very cool lady.


I think Holly and Nikki together run some annual long distance charity ride for cancer.


Holly is actually a hoot behind the scenes. Mikes and cameras make her freeze up.


That may be one reason her players seem to love her and a lot of Tenn fans hate her. I have a lot of respect for Holly, but I think she would benefit tremendously from taking a public speaking course in the off-season.

Do you all think this survey is legit? I can't imagine a lot of coaches calling someone else out for being overrated even if done anonymously. That's pretty classless. Possibly only 10 coaches out of the 235 solicited even bothered to respond.


Unfortunately for her, I don't think there is any particular correlation between being a nice, well-liked person and being a good coach. The former might help you recruit, but it won't help you manage game time strategy. And if you worry too much about being liked it can actually work against building an organized disciplined team.


readyAIMfire53



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PostPosted: 11/05/18 1:16 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

One thing coaches, media that actually follow the sport and the great majority of rebkell agrees on is McCallie is overrated. Serious speculation about her holding blackmail material on AD White in order to stay employed.



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ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 11/05/18 9:21 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

readyAIMfire53 wrote:
Serious speculation


Well there's a classic non sequitur.


[/url]


cthskzfn



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PostPosted: 11/05/18 12:51 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

FrozenLVFan wrote:
summertime blues wrote:
ArtBest23 wrote:
LitePal wrote:
Nikki Fargas also rides a big Harley and does long distances rides. No comment on her as a nice person. I suspect a conversation over beer with her would be all about her.

I agree Holly seems like a very cool lady.


I think Holly and Nikki together run some annual long distance charity ride for cancer.


Holly is actually a hoot behind the scenes. Mikes and cameras make her freeze up.


That may be one reason her players seem to love her and a lot of Tenn fans hate her. I have a lot of respect for Holly, but I think she would benefit tremendously from taking a public speaking course in the off-season.

Do you all think this survey is legit? I can't imagine a lot of coaches calling someone else out for being overrated even if done anonymously. That's pretty classless. Possibly only 10 coaches out of the 235 solicited even bothered to respond.



I suspect LV fans who hate her do so, most likely, because she's a shitty coach.



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pilight



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PostPosted: 11/05/18 12:58 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:
I'm surprised so many people want to grab a beer with Holly Warlick.


She's probably got a ton of good stories about Pat Summitt



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ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 11/05/18 2:40 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

cthskzfn wrote:



I suspect LV fans who hate her do so, most likely, because she's a shitty coach.


50% simply because she's not Pat. 50% because she's not a very good coach.


CamrnCrz1974



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PostPosted: 11/05/18 3:22 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

"Overrated" vs, "Underachieving"

These two are different terms with divergent meanings.

It would be curious to see how High Post Hoops defined "overrated" for purposes of the story.

Also, the article notes reaching out to over 200 coaches, but does not give the number of coaches who responded.


acsuc99



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PostPosted: 11/05/18 5:36 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I don't get the over the top hate in Karen Aston's coaching.

Is she a great coach? No. But Texas was going the way of Georgia and was totally off the WCBB scene. She has kept good talent home and now takes them to the regionals. That is certainly better than where they were.

Ditto Cori Close. Poor thing plays in front of HUNDREDS of fans for a program that gets zero attention.

What evidence is there that they are worse coaches than Hollie Warlick who mysteriously didn't make it despite deserving the top honors.


ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 11/05/18 6:48 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

acsuc99 wrote:
I don't get the over the top hate in Karen Aston's coaching.

Is she a great coach? No. But Texas was going the way of Georgia and was totally off the WCBB scene. She has kept good talent home and now takes them to the regionals. That is certainly better than where they were.

Ditto Cori Close. Poor thing plays in front of HUNDREDS of fans for a program that gets zero attention.

What evidence is there that they are worse coaches than Hollie Warlick who mysteriously didn't make it despite deserving the top honors.


I think Aston has had far more talent than Warlick and done nothing more with it. As I wrote the other day, before this survey came out:

ArtBest23 wrote:


I think Aston has taken over from McCallie as the leader of the "gets the least from the most" gang. The starting 5 would probably include Aston, McCallie, Close, Warlick, and Gustafson [sic Gottlieb].


Aston has recruited well (which anyone should be able to do at Texas). And totally wasted that talent.

Not sure Warlick is "overrated" because few call her a great coach. Some fans and media still try to pretend that Aston is.


Howee



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PostPosted: 11/05/18 6:53 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

acsuc99 wrote:
I don't get the over the top hate in Karen Aston's coaching.

Is she a great coach? No. But Texas was going the way of Georgia and was totally off the WCBB scene. She has kept good talent home and now takes them to the regionals. That is certainly better than where they were.

Ditto Cori Close. Poor thing plays in front of HUNDREDS of fans for a program that gets zero attention.

What evidence is there that they are worse coaches than Hollie Warlick who mysteriously didn't make it despite deserving the top honors.


Agreed.

Again, the article might be good fodder for conversation, but it really can't be considered all that valid. And there is a HUGE difference between "overrated" and Not Making A Big Difference. Holly and JP took legendary programs and have DIMINISHED them. Karen and Scott have taken dying programs and resurrected them to national powerhouses.



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ClayK



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PostPosted: 11/05/18 7:23 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Howee wrote:
acsuc99 wrote:
I don't get the over the top hate in Karen Aston's coaching.

Is she a great coach? No. But Texas was going the way of Georgia and was totally off the WCBB scene. She has kept good talent home and now takes them to the regionals. That is certainly better than where they were.

Ditto Cori Close. Poor thing plays in front of HUNDREDS of fans for a program that gets zero attention.

What evidence is there that they are worse coaches than Hollie Warlick who mysteriously didn't make it despite deserving the top honors.


Agreed.

Again, the article might be good fodder for conversation, but it really can't be considered all that valid. And there is a HUGE difference between "overrated" and Not Making A Big Difference. Holly and JP took legendary programs and have DIMINISHED them. Karen and Scott have taken dying programs and resurrected them to national powerhouses.


And though Cori Close gets lots of criticism, she has also moved a team from irrelevance into relevance.



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LitePal



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PostPosted: 11/05/18 8:56 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

[quote]And though Cori Close gets lots of criticism, she has also moved a team from irrelevance into relevance.[/quote]

Excuse me? You were the one who high handedly said that it was Nikki Caldwell who moved UCLA to relevance and the school didn't care when they let LSU pay her a ridiculous salary to get her away from UCLA. Now it's Cori Close? You might try keeping your conversations to your alma maters, Cal and UCSB, where there is plenty for you to boo hoo about.

And UCLA had the third highest average attendance in the Pac last season, behind only Oregon and OSU and yes, ahead of Stanford at 3,114.


ClayK



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PostPosted: 11/06/18 10:31 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

LitePal wrote:
Quote:
And though Cori Close gets lots of criticism, she has also moved a team from irrelevance into relevance.


Excuse me? You were the one who high handedly said that it was Nikki Caldwell who moved UCLA to relevance and the school didn't care when they let LSU pay her a ridiculous salary to get her away from UCLA. Now it's Cori Close? You might try keeping your conversations to your alma maters, Cal and UCSB, where there is plenty for you to boo hoo about.

And UCLA had the third highest average attendance in the Pac last season, behind only Oregon and OSU and yes, ahead of Stanford at 3,114.


Sorry ... didn't mean to offend you.

Nikki left in 2011 and in her first three seasons, Cori was 72-60, with one 26-8 season. Since then, she's 78-26.

So from the perspective of this century, Vargas bumped it way up after replacing Kathy Olivier, and despite a minor slump, Close kept the Bruins there.

From the perspective of this decade, Close started slow, with three of her first four seasons not exactly qualifying as sterling, but then took a major jump. So one could say that UCLA was still relevant in her first four years, but I do think it's fair to say the program is much more relevant now.

Again, my apologies for my high-handedness ...



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ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 11/06/18 11:59 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Strikes me as more relevant to the issue is what did she do with the number 1 recruiting class in the country?

Answer seems to be "not much".

Seems they were "relevant" because they were supposed to be really good more than because they actually were really good.


LitePal



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PostPosted: 11/06/18 12:27 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

With the #1 class, Close never won the Pac title, never won the Pac championship and finished in the Elite Eight in her last season. Kathy Olivier also made it to the Elite Eight. Close's percentage overall is .636 and in the Pac 627, Olivier was .527 and 526. Fargas, not VARGAS was 735 and 741.

And just to be clear, you were the one who said UCLA didn't care about womens basketball because they wouldn't pony up 750k to keep Caldwell. Now Close has made them relevant?

As I said, you can concentrate on Gottleib and Hendrickson.


ClayK



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PostPosted: 11/06/18 4:10 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

LitePal wrote:
With the #1 class, Close never won the Pac title, never won the Pac championship and finished in the Elite Eight in her last season. Kathy Olivier also made it to the Elite Eight. Close's percentage overall is .636 and in the Pac 627, Olivier was .527 and 526. Fargas, not VARGAS was 735 and 741.

And just to be clear, you were the one who said UCLA didn't care about womens basketball because they wouldn't pony up 750k to keep Caldwell. Now Close has made them relevant?

As I said, you can concentrate on Gottleib and Hendrickson.


I would stand by the statement on UCLA's payment ...

And it's "Henrickson," not "Hendrickson."

I do feel that everyone on this board has the right to comment on whatever they like, so I'm afraid I will likely continue to offend you on occasion. Nothing personal, but if I have something I'd like to say about UCLA, I will most likely do so.



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ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 11/07/18 12:37 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Loyola Marymount 69, UCLA 63.

Was someone discussing UCLA's relevance and Coach Close's role therein?


LitePal



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PostPosted: 11/07/18 12:57 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

You can stand by your statement on UCLA's payment because it clearly shows you know nothing about UC economics. Of course, UCLA was never in a position where they were almost going to eliminate certain sports altogether because their athletic budget was in such disarray. Like, oh, Cal? Part of that is understanding what to pay a coach in a non-revenue sport. They might have been stuck with, oh, maybe Gottleib at 620K?

Tonight Close's UCLA lost to crosstown LMU, not even rivals, in a terrible display of basketball. It was LMU's first victory over UCLA ever. Whatever relevance you may think she's brought to UCLA with her #1 class is quickly disappearing. I have no problem with different opinions but saying that Close brought relevance to UCLA is just wrong.


ClayK



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PostPosted: 11/07/18 8:45 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

LitePal wrote:
You can stand by your statement on UCLA's payment because it clearly shows you know nothing about UC economics. Of course, UCLA was never in a position where they were almost going to eliminate certain sports altogether because their athletic budget was in such disarray. Like, oh, Cal? Part of that is understanding what to pay a coach in a non-revenue sport. They might have been stuck with, oh, maybe Gottleib at 620K?

Tonight Close's UCLA lost to crosstown LMU, not even rivals, in a terrible display of basketball. It was LMU's first victory over UCLA ever. Whatever relevance you may think she's brought to UCLA with her #1 class is quickly disappearing. I have no problem with different opinions but saying that Close brought relevance to UCLA is just wrong.


LMU got a great game from former Cal player and highly ranked (as a prep) Gabby Green, among other things. Close justified her ranking on this list with this one, though ...

Ugly way to start the season for a No. 23 (supposedly) team ...



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