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I am stunned by the pre-season AP All America selections

 
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ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 11/01/18 3:30 pm    ::: I am stunned by the pre-season AP All America selections Reply Reply with quote

Ok, all five of these names are good and arguably deserving, but how
do you put together a group of five and not include the most dominating player in WCBB, Teaira McCowan? And Durr, who wasn't even chosen as ACC pre-season POY by the ACC coaches or media gets the most votes of anyone? Seriously?

And am I crazy in thinking that McCowan belongs on the first team way before Kalani Brown? Oh, what the heck, she only led her team to the National Championship game two years in a row. Frankly, I think she's the most obvious choice for all American right now.

And, as an aside, whoever voted for Chennedy Carter should be banned from the panel for life.

------------------------------
The Associated Press 2018-19 preseason All-America women's basketball team, with school, height, year and votes from a 31-member national media panel (key 2017-18 statistics in parentheses):

Asia Durr, Louisville, 5-10, senior, 29 votes (18.7 ppg, 3.1 rpg, 2.3 apg, 41.5 3pt fg pct, 84.8 ft pct, 1.0 steals)

Sabrina Ionescu, Oregon, 5-11, junior, 29 votes (19.7 ppg, 6.7 rpg, 7.8 apg, 43.8 3pt fg pct, 80.5 ft pct, 1.7 steals, 35.6 minutes)

Katie Lou Samuelson, UConn, 6-3, senior, 28 votes (17.4 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 3.8 apg, 53.0 fg pct, 47.5 3pt fg pct, 83.5 ft pct, 1.2 steals)

Arike Ogunbowale, Notre Dame, 5-8, senior, 24 votes (20.8 ppg, 5.4 rpg, 2.8 apg, 1.4 steals)

Kalani Brown, Baylor, 6-7, senior, 18 votes (20.0 ppg, 10.5 rpg, 64.2 fg pct, 1.5 blocks)

Others receiving votes: Teaira McCowan, Mississippi State, 12; Megan Gustafson, Iowa, 10; Napheesa Collier, UConn, 4; Chennedy Carter, Texas A&M, 1


ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 11/01/18 3:34 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Sorry for the duplicate thread.

I started typing my post above before Calbearman's post appeared. Lo and behold, when I hit submit, I saw I was late.


WNBA 09



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PostPosted: 11/01/18 4:09 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

+1 Art Not sure how they decided Brown before McCowan .



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PostPosted: 11/01/18 4:24 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I'm not stunned by any of the choices, but I think folks are overly impressed by Brown, McCowan and even Ionescu. All three are slow for their positions, the big galoots ponderously so.

Based on her freshman performance, I think Chennedy Carter may have more shooting/combo guard potential than Ogunbowale, Durr or Ionescu. If she played on a team where she didn't have to be a one-woman show, where she could be set up by her teammates for higher quality shots, her stats might be Himalayan.
bballnut901



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PostPosted: 11/01/18 5:35 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Never understood all the love for Durr aside from her outplaying Mitchell and Ogunbowale in head to head regular season battles. She really doesn't do much besides score the basketball. I'd put her at the 5th or 6th slot after KLS, McCowan, Ionescu, Arike, and maybe Brown.

McCowan was undervalued by voters last year and appears to be undervalued once again. No, she's not flashy and she hasn't shown the most developed offensive game, but no one impacts the game like she does on both ends. How do you leave her off after she averaged 21 points and 18 rebounds per game in the NCAA tournament?

I wouldn't put her on preseason first team, but I will not be surprised to see Collier on 1st team by end of the year...there's a good chance she flourishes again without Stevens in the lineup. Also keeping an eye out for any of the other ND starters, Slocum and a couple of others. Lots of good players in WCBB this year.


PickledGinger



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PostPosted: 11/01/18 5:36 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GlennMacGrady wrote:
I'm not stunned by any of the choices, but I think folks are overly impressed by Brown, McCowan and even Ionescu. All three are slow for their positions, the big galoots ponderously so.


Shocked

I don't know who you've been watching, but Ionescu is butter. She's going to be the best WNBA point guard in history.


WNBA 09



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PostPosted: 11/01/18 8:58 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

bballnut901 wrote:
Never understood all the love for Durr aside from her outplaying Mitchell and Ogunbowale in head to head regular season battles. She really doesn't do much besides score the basketball. I'd put her at the 5th or 6th slot after KLS, McCowan, Ionescu, Arike, and maybe Brown.

McCowan was undervalued by voters last year and appears to be undervalued once again. No, she's not flashy and she hasn't shown the most developed offensive game, but no one impacts the game like she does on both ends. How do you leave her off after she averaged 21 points and 18 rebounds per game in the NCAA tournament?

I wouldn't put her on preseason first team, but I will not be surprised to see Collier on 1st team by end of the year...there's a good chance she flourishes again without Stevens in the lineup. Also keeping an eye out for any of the other ND starters, Slocum and a couple of others. Lots of good players in WCBB this year.


I understand putting her behind Brown , McCowan & Ionescu , but what exactly does KLS or Arike do other than score ? Specifically what do they on the court thats leaps and bounds ahead of Durr ? Im not seeing any glaring differences.



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SpaceJunkie



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PostPosted: 11/01/18 9:46 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I was wondering, is there even an actual purpose for preseason All-American teams when a game hasn't even been played yet? Or is it just like the polls, and its only purpose is for clicks and fan outrage?


CBiebel



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PostPosted: 11/01/18 9:54 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

SpaceJunkie wrote:
I was wondering, is there even an actual purpose for preseason All-American teams when a game hasn't even been played yet? Or is it just like the polls, and its only purpose is for clicks and fan outrage?


Pretty much that's it... Wink


ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 11/01/18 9:56 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

SpaceJunkie wrote:
I was wondering, is there even an actual purpose for preseason All-American teams when a game hasn't even been played yet? Or is it just like the polls, and its only purpose is for clicks and fan outrage?


What 's the point of ANY poll, all American team, or individual award? They're all just opinions by whoever makes up the voting pool whether they're pre-season, post-season or mid-season. The only things that aren't are game results reflected in conference season and tournament titles, and the national championship tournament results.


myrtle



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PostPosted: 11/01/18 9:59 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I've thought Brown was better than McCowan for a long time. Definitely more polished. But McCowan is very big and can dominate in college pretty much based on size. She also had a pretty darn good supporting cast the past couple of years which made it hard to double her. We shall see if that's still true...



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PostPosted: 11/01/18 10:34 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

WNBA 09 wrote:
bballnut901 wrote:
Never understood all the love for Durr aside from her outplaying Mitchell and Ogunbowale in head to head regular season battles. She really doesn't do much besides score the basketball. I'd put her at the 5th or 6th slot after KLS, McCowan, Ionescu, Arike, and maybe Brown.

McCowan was undervalued by voters last year and appears to be undervalued once again. No, she's not flashy and she hasn't shown the most developed offensive game, but no one impacts the game like she does on both ends. How do you leave her off after she averaged 21 points and 18 rebounds per game in the NCAA tournament?

I wouldn't put her on preseason first team, but I will not be surprised to see Collier on 1st team by end of the year...there's a good chance she flourishes again without Stevens in the lineup. Also keeping an eye out for any of the other ND starters, Slocum and a couple of others. Lots of good players in WCBB this year.


I understand putting her behind Brown , McCowan & Ionescu , but what exactly does KLS or Arike do other than score ? Specifically what do they on the court thats leaps and bounds ahead of Durr ? Im not seeing any glaring differences.


Well, I'd say KLS is The Best Flopper in the game right now. That's gotta count for something, no? And Arike DID dance with the stars, albeit briefly.



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Fighting Artichoke



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PostPosted: 11/02/18 9:32 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

WNBA 09 wrote:
bballnut901 wrote:
Never understood all the love for Durr aside from her outplaying Mitchell and Ogunbowale in head to head regular season battles. She really doesn't do much besides score the basketball. I'd put her at the 5th or 6th slot after KLS, McCowan, Ionescu, Arike, and maybe Brown.

McCowan was undervalued by voters last year and appears to be undervalued once again. No, she's not flashy and she hasn't shown the most developed offensive game, but no one impacts the game like she does on both ends. How do you leave her off after she averaged 21 points and 18 rebounds per game in the NCAA tournament?

I wouldn't put her on preseason first team, but I will not be surprised to see Collier on 1st team by end of the year...there's a good chance she flourishes again without Stevens in the lineup. Also keeping an eye out for any of the other ND starters, Slocum and a couple of others. Lots of good players in WCBB this year.


I understand putting her behind Brown , McCowan & Ionescu , but what exactly does KLS or Arike do other than score ? Specifically what do they on the court thats leaps and bounds ahead of Durr ? Im not seeing any glaring differences.


Stats besides scoring

Rebounds

Durr 3.1
Arike 5.4
KLS 4.5

Assists

Durr 2.3
Arike 2.8
KLS 3.8

Steals

Durr 1.0
Arike 1.4
KLS 1.2

Blocks

Durr 0.15
Arike 0.05
KLS 0.16

Note that KLS's stats do not include the NCAA tournament because the UConn website did not update them after the end of March (only 32 games were included).


SDHoops



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PostPosted: 11/02/18 10:50 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

lol @ McGowan leading her team to the title game two years in a row. Umm you must have never watched a game because it was the guard play including that of Vivians, Schaefer, and William that made it ten times easier for Tiera to get post looks. If MSU gets back to the Final Four, I will crown her the player of the century....


ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 11/02/18 11:48 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

SDHoops wrote:
lol @ McGowan leading her team to the title game two years in a row. Umm you must have never watched a game because it was the guard play including that of Vivians, Schaefer, and William that made it ten times easier for Tiera to get post looks. If MSU gets back to the Final Four, I will crown her the player of the century....


I completely disagree. I think their guards alone (even with Vivians) were as a group pretty run of the mill and would have taken them nowhere. They're less impressive this year. McCowan's dominating presence rebounding and defending made everything work. It's why she almost never left the court during the tournament and why ND went right to the paint with ease when she had to sit due to foul trouble in the final.

As I said, I think she is the single most dominant player in the game this season. I expect to see her play a larger offensive role. And I don't think any coaches are losing sleep worrying about MissSt's guards.

Hey, I don't think she's perfect. Her footwork stinks, she misses lots of bunnies and free throws. But her strength and height means no one matches up with her. I hope Vic uses her more effectively on offense this year because I consider her underutilized so far.


bballjunkie



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PostPosted: 11/02/18 12:23 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

[quote="Fighting Artichoke"][quote="WNBA 09"][quote="bballnut901"]Never understood all the love for Durr aside from her outplaying Mitchell and Ogunbowale in head to head regular season battles. [b]She really doesn't do much besides score the basketball. I'd put her at the 5th or 6th slot after KLS, McCowan, Ionescu, Arike, and maybe Brown. [/b]

McCowan was undervalued by voters last year and appears to be undervalued once again. No, she's not flashy and she hasn't shown the most developed offensive game, but no one impacts the game like she does on both ends. How do you leave her off after she averaged 21 points and 18 rebounds per game in the NCAA tournament?

I wouldn't put her on preseason first team, but I will not be surprised to see Collier on 1st team by end of the year...there's a good chance she flourishes again without Stevens in the lineup. Also keeping an eye out for any of the other ND starters, Slocum and a couple of others. Lots of good players in WCBB this year.[/quote]

I understand putting her behind Brown , McCowan & Ionescu , [b][u]but what exactly does KLS or Arike do other than score ?[/u][/b] Specifically what do they on the court thats leaps and bounds ahead of Durr ? Im not seeing any glaring differences.[/quote]

Stats besides scoring

Rebounds

Durr 3.1
Arike 5.4
KLS 4.5

Assists

Durr 2.3
Arike 2.8
KLS 3.8

Steals

Durr 1.0
Arike 1.4
KLS 1.2

Blocks

Durr 0.15
Arike 0.05
KLS 0.16

Note that KLS's stats do not include the NCAA tournament because the UConn website did not update them after the end of March (only 32 games were included).[/quote]

KLS only played 32 games.

More relevant stats

Asst/to

Durr 1.2
AO 1.9
KLS 2.8

Fg% 3%

Durr 44 fg 41 (3)
AO 43 fg 38 (3)
KLS 53 fg 48 (3)


Nixtreefan



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PostPosted: 11/02/18 12:28 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Thats quite a difference.

I am with Glenn on the whole BIGS and Ionescu thing. I get that teams will want a BIG but neither seem ready and it is interesting that they chose Brown over McCowan as much as they did. Ionescu was exposed in USA and the 3x3, she is not a PG.


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PostPosted: 11/02/18 12:29 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Now do a P5 opponent only chart.



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PostPosted: 11/02/18 2:09 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

KLS is 6-3, which is very tall for an elite 3pt shooter, and she can thus launch quality jump shots over defenders that the much shorter Durr and Ogunbowale couldn't.

Her height also allows her to move into the low post, where she has very good back-to-the basket post moves and is completely ambidextrous. In fact, as a righty, she says she prefers to shoot layups and drop steps lefty. KLS's outside accuracy and inside scoring repertoire will almost certainly result in her having a higher FG% than AO or AD.

Finally, at 6-3 with reasonable quickness, KLS can defend the 5, 4, 3 and even a slow 2 player. Geno has also played her at the top of a zone, where her height and wingspan can cause lots of disruption.

I'd easily take KLS over Durr or Ogunbowale. Unless maybe I was desperate for a ball handler, but are AO and AD really ball handlers either?
WNBA 09



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PostPosted: 11/02/18 3:37 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GlennMacGrady wrote:
KLS is 6-3, which is very tall for an elite 3pt shooter, and she can thus launch quality jump shots over defenders that the much shorter Durr and Ogunbowale couldn't.

Her height also allows her to move into the low post, where she has very good back-to-the basket post moves and is completely ambidextrous. In fact, as a righty, she says she prefers to shoot layups and drop steps lefty. KLS's outside accuracy and inside scoring repertoire will almost certainly result in her having a higher FG% than AO or AD.

Finally, at 6-3 with reasonable quickness, KLS can defend the 5, 4, 3 and even a slow 2 player. Geno has also played her at the top of a zone, where her height and wingspan can cause lots of disruption.

I'd easily take KLS over Durr or Ogunbowale. Unless maybe I was desperate for a ball handler, but are AO and AD really ball handlers either?


Try telling that to a WNBA GM in next years draft.



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Davis4632



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PostPosted: 11/03/18 2:35 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I'm not shocked at all.IMO, It's not like McCowan head and shoulders above Brown in the talent department. I can see Carter making some AAs teams if she averages 20+ points per game and if Texas A&M finishes in the op half of the SEC.

I wouldn't be surprised if KLS is taking in the draft before Durr and Ogunbowale.


ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 11/03/18 7:49 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Davis4632 wrote:
I'm not shocked at all.IMO, It's not like McCowan head and shoulders above Brown in the talent department. I can see Carter making some AAs teams if she averages 20+ points per game and if Texas A&M finishes in the op half of the SEC.

I wouldn't be surprised if KLS is taking in the draft before Durr and Ogunbowale.


ONLY because she's 6 inches taller
Height always gets bonus points.

And of course this isn't a WNBA mock draft.


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