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Seattle Storm and the White House
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Luuuc
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Joined: 10 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: 09/21/18 1:21 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I guess the danger of groups speaking out in that way is that there could be individuals within that group who might actually be thrilled to meet the POTUS. I don't know that being a true team player should extend to off-court unity to that extent.
But if they really do all feel that way then by all means express it.

(I have to say that for me - someone who pretty much despises the current prez - the temptation would be very high to take the high road and try to make the visit happen, in the hope of getting the opportunity to express a true opinion or two to him in person, or at very least troll him.)



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GlennMacGrady



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PostPosted: 09/21/18 2:27 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Hoopsmom wrote:
I think that the Seattle Storm coming out in public saying they wouldn’t go even if they were invited is extremely disrespectful to our nation, and especially to many, many fans of the WNBA. Keep your politics to yourselves. We don’t watch you, support you, buy tickets and t-shirts and other merchandise, for your political views. We watch you and pay money for you to entertain us by playing a basketball game. Period.


I agree with you 100%, Hoopsmom.

I don't want to see politics when I go to any sports contest, nor when I watch late night comedy television (where have you gone, Johnny Carson!), nor when I watch the Oscars or Emmies or similar TV shows. I want escapist entertainment from these events -- not preachy, tediously partisan, echo chamber, political talking points or demonstrations. So, I don't watch any of those TV programs anymore. It's that simple.

Since this thread was started about Sue Bird, perhaps we should be discussing why she's a low information, left wing, knee-jerk political hack, and an immoral purveyor of pornographic pictures. Oh, some of you don't like those viewpoints and don't think they should be expressed here? Good. I don't want political-cultural-religious topics discussed on a web sports forum, except in an Area 51 equivalent.

To suggest that one can't discuss sports without injecting politics is ludicrous. People have done so all my long lifetime in living rooms, kitchens, bar rooms, gyms, arenas, stadiums, press boxes, cars, planes, and in the remotest wilderness campsites. It's easy. And strongly desirable, not only by the vast majority of women's basketball fans who post on the internet, but the vast majority of all people who post on all forums all over the internet.
Nixtreefan



Joined: 14 Nov 2012
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PostPosted: 09/21/18 2:33 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I hear ya and if the current situation were different but when my Mario Kart has been infiltrated by an unwanted tiny penis, what s a fan supposed to do.


craigmont



Joined: 14 Sep 2005
Posts: 980
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PostPosted: 09/21/18 3:22 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Hoopsmom wrote:
I think that the Seattle Storm coming out in public saying they wouldn’t go even if they were invited is extremely disrespectful to our nation, and especially to many, many fans of the WNBA. Keep your politics to yourselves. We don’t watch you, support you, buy tickets and t-shirts and other merchandise, for your political views. We watch you and pay money for you to entertain us by playing a basketball game. Period.


As soon as they got off the plane, a local TV reporter was in their faces asking if they would accept a White House invitation from President Trump.

And to expect WNBA players not to have an opinion about this particular President is oblivious bordering on asinine. Maybe they don't want to be grabbed by their private parts.

This works both ways. You want athletes to shut up and dribble, well how about keeping the politics out of sports?


Silky Johnson



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PostPosted: 09/21/18 3:40 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Luuuc wrote:
(I have to say that for me - someone who pretty much despises the current prez - the temptation would be very high to take the high road and try to make the visit happen, in the hope of getting the opportunity to express a true opinion or two to him in person, or at very least troll him.)

Eh, I've met a sitting US President: you don't really get the opportunity for "face time" that people who've never met the President seem to assume that you would. My experience very much resembled an assembly line.



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Silky Johnson



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PostPosted: 09/21/18 3:51 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GlennMacGrady wrote:
... I want escapist entertainment from these events...

Not all of us have the privilege of getting to "escape" from those things.

Quote:
Since this thread was started about Sue Bird, perhaps we should be discussing why she's a low information, left wing, knee-jerk political hack, and an immoral purveyor of pornographic pictures. Oh, some of you don't like those viewpoints and don't think they should be expressed here?

On the contrary, I would be very interested in having that discussion. Can we start with why you're working from the premise that the Compiler is "low information"?

Quote:
To suggest that one can't discuss sports without injecting politics is ludicrous.

No, it isn't. Politics have been a part of sports since sports happened. The ancient Olympics were political. You can discuss sports without discussing politics, but believing that politics is not a part of sports requires some level of (most likely willful) ignorance.



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Silky Johnson



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PostPosted: 09/21/18 3:55 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

craigmont wrote:
As soon as they got off the plane, a local TV reporter was in their faces asking if they would accept a White House invitation from President Trump.

And then, there's this. Let's not pretend like the Compiler, or any of the other Storm players, just randomly got in front of a microphone and announced, unsolicited, that they weren't going to the White House.

As memory serves, there was a Republican in the White House when the Compiler was winning NCAA National Championships, and when she won her first Olympic Gold Medal, and when she won her first WNBA Championship. And it didn't stop her from going, then, so I'm pretty sure that her objection to going now is something that is above and beyond mere partisan politics. But, whatever, you do you.



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Last edited by Silky Johnson on 09/21/18 3:58 pm; edited 1 time in total
Luuuc
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PostPosted: 09/21/18 3:56 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Silky Johnson wrote:
Luuuc wrote:
(I have to say that for me - someone who pretty much despises the current prez - the temptation would be very high to take the high road and try to make the visit happen, in the hope of getting the opportunity to express a true opinion or two to him in person, or at very least troll him.)

Eh, I've met a sitting US President: you don't really get the opportunity for "face time" that people who've never met the President seem to assume that you would. My experience very much resembled an assembly line.

Still enough time for a quick "you suck!" as he waddles past?



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Silky Johnson



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PostPosted: 09/21/18 4:01 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Luuuc wrote:
Silky Johnson wrote:
Luuuc wrote:
(I have to say that for me - someone who pretty much despises the current prez - the temptation would be very high to take the high road and try to make the visit happen, in the hope of getting the opportunity to express a true opinion or two to him in person, or at very least troll him.)

Eh, I've met a sitting US President: you don't really get the opportunity for "face time" that people who've never met the President seem to assume that you would. My experience very much resembled an assembly line.

Still enough time for a quick "you suck!" as he waddles past?


42 didn't waddle so much, but point taken.



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Randy



Joined: 08 Oct 2011
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PostPosted: 09/21/18 4:06 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Luuuc wrote:
Silky Johnson wrote:
Luuuc wrote:
(I have to say that for me - someone who pretty much despises the current prez - the temptation would be very high to take the high road and try to make the visit happen, in the hope of getting the opportunity to express a true opinion or two to him in person, or at very least troll him.)

Eh, I've met a sitting US President: you don't really get the opportunity for "face time" that people who've never met the President seem to assume that you would. My experience very much resembled an assembly line.

Still enough time for a quick "you suck!" as he waddles past?


He said the prez was sitting so that won't work either.


Bob Lamm



Joined: 11 Apr 2010
Posts: 5065
Location: New York City


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PostPosted: 09/21/18 4:10 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Silky Johnson wrote:
GlennMacGrady wrote:
... I want escapist entertainment from these events...

Not all of us have the privilege of getting to "escape" from those things.

Quote:
Since this thread was started about Sue Bird, perhaps we should be discussing why she's a low information, left wing, knee-jerk political hack, and an immoral purveyor of pornographic pictures. Oh, some of you don't like those viewpoints and don't think they should be expressed here?

On the contrary, I would be very interested in having that discussion. Can we start with why you're working from the premise that the Compiler is "low information"?

Quote:
To suggest that one can't discuss sports without injecting politics is ludicrous.

No, it isn't. Politics have been a part of sports since sports happened. The ancient Olympics were political. You can discuss sports without discussing politics, but believing that politics is not a part of sports requires some level of (most likely willful) ignorance.


Yes, yes, and yes, Silky Johnson. Thanks.

It's especially ironic to try to claim a wall between politics and sports on a WNBA message board. Three crucial factors that hurt the WNBA's fan appeal are sexism, racism, and homophobia.



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Silky Johnson



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PostPosted: 09/21/18 4:19 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Randy wrote:
Luuuc wrote:
Silky Johnson wrote:
Luuuc wrote:
(I have to say that for me - someone who pretty much despises the current prez - the temptation would be very high to take the high road and try to make the visit happen, in the hope of getting the opportunity to express a true opinion or two to him in person, or at very least troll him.)

Eh, I've met a sitting US President: you don't really get the opportunity for "face time" that people who've never met the President seem to assume that you would. My experience very much resembled an assembly line.

Still enough time for a quick "you suck!" as he waddles past?


He said the prez was sitting so that won't work either.


LOL!



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tfan



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PostPosted: 09/22/18 12:57 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bob Lamm wrote:

Three crucial factors that hurt the WNBA's fan appeal are sexism, racism, and homophobia.


Those sound like social issues, not political issues.

The biggest factor is likely that women are not as athletic as men (and that difference is more noticeable or impactful in basketball than other sports).

Given that TV networks pay the NBA billions of dollars a year to broadcast 164 or so regular season games nationally, plus all the playoff games, in addition to all the local broadcasts, it seems that extremely large amounts of sports fans don't have a problem watching mostly black teams play basketball games.

For most of the WNBA's existence, there was almost no one out. Michelle Van Gorp and Sue Wicks (after retirement) are the only two I can think of who were out before the 2010's when the younger players started coming out (which influenced vets like Sue Bird who came out in her 15th year while dating someone had been out for 3 or 4 years). There was a perception that WNBA players were lesbian solely based on the butchness of the game and some of the players. Back in the early days of the WNBA before Wicks and Van Gorp were out, Saturday Night Live Weekend Update joked there were only two gay-themed shows on TV - Will and Grace and the WNBA. So I wonder if the issue is that the players are lesbian or that they are muscular and butch. But maybe that is the same issue.


Carol Anne



Joined: 09 Apr 2005
Posts: 1739
Location: Seattle


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PostPosted: 09/22/18 8:30 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GlennMacGrady wrote:
...Since this thread was started about Sue Bird, perhaps we should be discussing why she's a low information, left wing, knee-jerk political hack, and an immoral purveyor of pornographic pictures. Oh, some of you don't like those viewpoints and don't think they should be expressed here? Good. I don't want political-cultural-religious topics discussed on a web sports forum, except in an Area 51 equivalent....

Take your political opinions there, please.


StevenHW



Joined: 25 Jul 2005
Posts: 10979
Location: Sacramento, California


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PostPosted: 09/22/18 3:35 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:
Bob Lamm wrote:

Three crucial factors that hurt the WNBA's fan appeal are sexism, racism, and homophobia.


Those sound like social issues, not political issues.

The biggest factor is likely that women are not as athletic as men (and that difference is more noticeable or impactful in basketball than other sports).

Given that TV networks pay the NBA billions of dollars a year to broadcast 164 or so regular season games nationally, plus all the playoff games, in addition to all the local broadcasts, it seems that extremely large amounts of sports fans don't have a problem watching mostly black teams play basketball games.

There was a perception that WNBA players were lesbian solely based on the butchness of the game and some of the players. Back in the early days of the WNBA before Wicks and Van Gorp were out, Saturday Night Live Weekend Update joked there were only two gay-themed shows on TV - Will and Grace and the WNBA. So I wonder if the issue is that the players are lesbian or that they are muscular and butch. But maybe that is the same issue.


I seem to recall Sheryl Swoopes was out in 2006 or maybe a bit later. And she landed an endorsement from Olivia Travel Cruises.



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calbearman76



Joined: 02 Nov 2009
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PostPosted: 09/22/18 5:21 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

To get back to the original issue I believe the original context of inviting winning teams to the White House was a nice, apolitical attempt to spotlight American excellence. Unfortunately it isn't that way anymore. Our current President isn't the first to intertwine sports and political propaganda, but he has been more blatant about it.

I support the Storm not wanting to be a part of that charade. If the Democrats take the House in November I hope that Nancy Pelosi and the Democrats will invite them to the Capitol for an appropriate celebration of their accomplishment. Yes, that would be a political statement as well, but it would also be about female empowerment and giving these great athletes recognition for their great accomplishment.


Iluvacc



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PostPosted: 09/22/18 10:10 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Silky Johnson wrote:
GlennMacGrady wrote:
... I want escapist entertainment from these events...

Not all of us have the privilege of getting to "escape" from those things.



Ding Ding Ding we have a winner folks!

If only it was that easy


Bob Lamm



Joined: 11 Apr 2010
Posts: 5065
Location: New York City


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PostPosted: 09/22/18 10:33 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Iluvacc wrote:
Silky Johnson wrote:
GlennMacGrady wrote:
... I want escapist entertainment from these events...

Not all of us have the privilege of getting to "escape" from those things.



Ding Ding Ding we have a winner folks!

If only it was that easy


Yes, indeed. Silky Johnson has made a very crucial observation.



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tfan



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PostPosted: 09/22/18 11:58 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

StevenHW wrote:

I seem to recall Sheryl Swoopes was out in 2006 or maybe a bit later. And she landed an endorsement from Olivia Travel Cruises.


Yeah, I forgot about Swoopes who came out in October, 2005 (then in 2011 came out as NSGAA). I misremembered Sue Wicks coming out after she retired. Her last year was 2002 and she is reported as first coming out in an interview published in the May 2002 issue of Time Out New York. I thought that when she came out she also made the statement that "I can’t say how many players are gay, but it would be easier to count the straight ones". But that occurred in an August 8, 2000 Village Voice article (not in relation to her sexuality but with regard to being "willing to discuss the league’s squeamishness about lesbians").

Will and Grace ran from 1998 to 2006, so the SNL joke occurred in that period. But it went "show blah in which so and so stars as a gay male character was just canceled. That leaves only two gay-themed shows on television..." I believe that show was Normal, Ohio, which starred John Goodman and was canceled in early December 2000. I don't know how many people were aware of the Sue Wicks Village Voice article, but I would estimate it to be low. However, it did occur before Goodman's show got canceled so it could be said that it was why SNL joked about the league as mostly lesbian, rather than assumptions based on looking at the games or general impressions of pro female athletes.


Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 09/23/18 12:31 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:
StevenHW wrote:

I seem to recall Sheryl Swoopes was out in 2006 or maybe a bit later. And she landed an endorsement from Olivia Travel Cruises.


Yeah, I forgot about Swoopes who came out in October, 2005 (then in 2011 came out as NSGAA). I misremembered Sue Wicks coming out after she retired. Her last year was 2002 and she is reported as first coming out in an interview published in the May 2002 issue of Time Out New York. I thought that when she came out she also made the statement that "I can’t say how many players are gay, but it would be easier to count the straight ones". But that occurred in an August 8, 2000 Village Voice article (not in relation to her sexuality but with regard to being "willing to discuss the league’s squeamishness about lesbians").

Will and Grace ran from 1998 to 2006, so the SNL joke occurred in that period. But it went "show blah in which so and so stars as a gay male character was just canceled. That leaves only two gay-themed shows on television..." I believe that show was Normal, Ohio, which starred John Goodman and was canceled in early December 2000. I don't know how many people were aware of the Sue Wicks Village Voice article, but I would estimate it to be low. However, it did occur before Goodman's show got canceled so it could be said that it was why people viewed the league as mostly lesbian, rather than assumptions based on looking at the games.


I know Alisa Solomon, who was covering the New York Liberty for the Village Voice in 2000 and who did that interview with Sue Wicks. As a resident of New York then and now, my strong feeling is that the sports section of the Voice wasn't read by all that many Voice readers. It was a small section at the back of the paper. Virtually no one bought the Voice to read about sports. The section was eventually discontinued.

I highly doubt that many basketball fans in New York City or anywhere else knew about that statement by Sue Wicks. Indeed, over the last 18 years, I've mentioned that memorable quote from Wicks many times to people interested in sports--some of them LGBT--and not a single one had heard of it.

P.S. I neglected to say that it was remarkable of Wicks to make that public statement in 2000. At that time, the WNBA and the Liberty were doing all they could to conceal the fact that many players AND many fans were lesbians. I was stunned when I read that statement in the Voice and made clear to Alisa Solomon my respect for her for raising that subject with Sue Wicks and my respect for Wicks for such an honest, provocative statement.



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