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| Total Votes : 16 |
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myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008
Posts: 32335
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 Posted: 08/04/18 11:12 pm ::: |
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| SportsGuru wrote: |
The Las Vegas Aces Organization and Players still don't get it, Friday Night was not only a schedule game but It was also Breast Cancer Awareness night at the Cap One Arena in Washington, D.C. |
But were the 100 fans in attendance just as happy getting autographs and interacting with the players?
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CourtsideTix
Joined: 19 Nov 2004
Posts: 4565
Location: Washington, DC
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| Posted: 08/05/18 1:08 am ::: |
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| myrtle wrote: |
| But were the 100 fans in attendance just as happy getting autographs and interacting with the players? |
I suppose you think you are being very funny. Ha ha.
But what the LV players did had real consequences, from a business perspective in term of the Mystics' owners, and to the fans who were there. There are huge costs to opening an arena, even if you own it. You are paying the arena game-day staff (ushers, ticket takers, cleaners, etc.), the security people, the concessions. And now the refund of ticket payments.
In terms of the fans, it's a huge, time-consuming pain in the ass to get to that arena in the middle of downtown DC on a weekday evening during rush hour, whether you are driving or taking Metro. And costly; Metro isn't cheap, and it costs a bundle to park. Imagine having crawled into the city in rush hour traffic and then forked over $25 to park only to learn that the LV players were in town but were refusing to come over to the arena and play. I'm sure the fans were just delighted.
So, ha ha,you are so clever.
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Randy
Joined: 08 Oct 2011
Posts: 10911
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| Posted: 08/05/18 6:52 am ::: |
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| One issue not raised is whether the Mystics will be giving fans refunds. Does anybody know what happens in baseball when a game is rained out? Or what the Mystics did when their arena had the leak in the roof?
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Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005
Posts: 24349
Location: London
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| Posted: 08/05/18 7:17 am ::: |
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The Mystics said on the night that all tickets would be automatically refunded, plus everyone would get a ticket for another Mystics game, plus they had that autograph session instead of the game. Washington did pretty much everything you could ask of them given the situation they were left in.
How they handle the cash issues could be another awkward little element of this. If the League decides the Aces should've played, does the Aces organisation owe the Mystics money? Do the Aces players or the WNBPA owe them money? Have fun with that one. |
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calbearman76
Joined: 02 Nov 2009
Posts: 5155
Location: Carson City
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| Posted: 08/05/18 10:10 am ::: |
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| Randy wrote: |
| One issue not raised is whether the Mystics will be giving fans refunds. Does anybody know what happens in baseball when a game is rained out? Or what the Mystics did when their arena had the leak in the roof? |
The Mystics announced very early, essentially right at the same time as the game cancellation, that they would both give refunds and a ticket to a future game. When a baseball games gets rained out fans are generally given the alternative of a refund or a ticket to a future game.
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SportsGuru
Joined: 20 May 2005
Posts: 4977
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| Posted: 08/05/18 11:30 am ::: |
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| Richyyy wrote: |
The Mystics said on the night that all tickets would be automatically refunded, plus everyone would get a ticket for another Mystics game, plus they had that autograph session instead of the game. Washington did pretty much everything you could ask of them given the situation they were left in.
How they handle the cash issues could be another awkward little element of this. If the League decides the Aces should've played, does the Aces organisation owe the Mystics money? Do the Aces players or the WNBPA owe them money? Have fun with that one. |
I can see Aces Management pointing out they got the team to DC safely but the Aces Players and WNBAPA decided not to play the game, the Aces Players and WNBAPA then will give evidence of what a Doctor said, the NBA will tell the WNBA the heck with this horse manure, forfeit the game, issue a fine against Aces Management for the money the Mystics loss and take the Aces 2019 1st rd draft pick from them.
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sportsfan48
Joined: 17 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 08/05/18 1:57 pm ::: |
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I know that there are teams who have gotten to the city and arena late because of travel problems. It has happened to the Mercury a couple of times. But their circumstances were traveling a much shorter distance and inconvenienced a lot less. Has there ever been a situation where a team had to spend 24+ hours in travel time without proper rest and nutrients just prior to a game?
I do not think there are many, if any, on this board or anywhere else who can speak for how the players felt after their ordeal. We are talking about a 24+ timeframe. The ACES players are the only ones who can make the determination of how they felt. They are professionals which, IMO, makes it even more important that they make a wise, thoughtful, and researched decision concerning their health.
And most important, you cannot downplay the possibility of injury. If the league does not support the decision of the players (which was based on safety and possibility of injury with proven support) they are basically saying that they don't care if players are at greater risk for injury. The message they would send, IMO, is that the league is more interested in the bottom line than the health and safety of their players. Just because they were in town before the game and it has happened to others does not warrant an immediate "they must play" decision.
I am not an ACES fan, BTW. I am a fan of the WNBA, however, and want to see the players healthy and able to play to the best of their ability.
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WNBA 09
Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 12528
Location: Dallas , Texas
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Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005
Posts: 24349
Location: London
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| Posted: 08/05/18 2:35 pm ::: |
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| sportsfan48 wrote: |
| And most important, you cannot downplay the possibility of injury. If the league does not support the decision of the players (which was based on safety and possibility of injury with proven support) they are basically saying that they don't care if players are at greater risk for injury. The message they would send, IMO, is that the league is more interested in the bottom line than the health and safety of their players. Just because they were in town before the game and it has happened to others does not warrant an immediate "they must play" decision. |
But then where do you draw the line? Because teams deal with 'some' delays all the time, and then play anyway. At what point does it become okay to say "well we're here now, but we're not playing anyway"? And in their standard scheduling the WNBA implicitly say they're okay with whatever increased possibility of injury comes with playing back-to-backs, invariably with a flight either the night of the first game or morning of the second.
And beyond that, how much do you say it's the Aces' fault anyway for not scheduling an earlier flight in the first place? There are a lot of flights scheduled from Vegas to the various Washington airports over the course of a day, and if they booked earlier they'd have had more options and chances to get there anyway.
I do agree that the League is going to have to be careful with how they word their response to all this, and how they apportion blame. Player safety obviously has to be important (although I bet they can find doctors who'd claim the increase in chance of injury was minimal). But you also can't set a precedent for teams to get out of scheduling they don't like by just not showing up and getting away with it. Much as I'd have liked a quick response from the League I kinda understand them taking their time to gauge all of the factors involved. |
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SportsGuru
Joined: 20 May 2005
Posts: 4977
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| Posted: 08/05/18 2:50 pm ::: |
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| sportsfan48 wrote: |
I know that there are teams who have gotten to the city and arena late because of travel problems. It has happened to the Mercury a couple of times. But their circumstances were traveling a much shorter distance and inconvenienced a lot less. Has there ever been a situation where a team had to spend 24+ hours in travel time without proper rest and nutrients just prior to a game?
I do not think there are many, if any, on this board or anywhere else who can speak for how the players felt after their ordeal. We are talking about a 24+ timeframe. The ACES players are the only ones who can make the determination of how they felt. They are professionals which, IMO, makes it even more important that they make a wise, thoughtful, and researched decision concerning their health.
And most important, you cannot downplay the possibility of injury. If the league does not support the decision of the players (which was based on safety and possibility of injury with proven support) they are basically saying that they don't care if players are at greater risk for injury. The message they would send, IMO, is that the league is more interested in the bottom line than the health and safety of their players. Just because they were in town before the game and it has happened to others does not warrant an immediate "they must play" decision.
I am not an ACES fan, BTW. I am a fan of the WNBA, however, and want to see the players healthy and able to play to the best of their ability. |
Players are at risk anytime they lace up their sneakers. I wonder what Michael Jordan's doctor told him when he was sick as a canine before the game he scored 38 points.
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NYL_WNBA_FAN
Joined: 28 May 2007
Posts: 14097
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| Posted: 08/05/18 3:04 pm ::: |
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I can’t decide how I feel about it. On one hand, we’ve seen an unusually condensed schedule that resulted in an 11am flight cross-country the day after a night game. Even factoring the loss of 3 hours, that’s still plenty of time to get to DC in an ordinary situation, so I’m not sure I fault Vegas there. And the scheduling leaves little margin for error for a long trip so close to the next game.
OTOH, if you allow the rescheduling of this game then you’re basically saying the rules don’t matter, as well as establishing a precedent for other teams to do the same.
Personally I think the league should have postponed the game as soon as it was evident that travel from Dallas wasn’t happening in a timely manner. But I get why people wouldn’t agree and why the Mystics would be upset.
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FrozenLVFan
Joined: 08 Jul 2014
Posts: 3511
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| Posted: 08/06/18 11:23 am ::: |
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| Richyyy wrote: |
| But then where do you draw the line? Because teams deal with 'some' delays all the time, and then play anyway. At what point does it become okay to say "well we're here now, but we're not playing anyway"? And in their standard scheduling the WNBA implicitly say they're okay with whatever increased possibility of injury comes with playing back-to-backs, invariably with a flight either the night of the first game or morning of the second. |
I think there's an easy solution going forward. The league removes the travel restrictions and puts the onus squarely on the team management for all travel arrangements. The team has to show up for the game and play, unless there's clearly an extenuating circumstance like a blizzard or terrorist attack. If they don't play, they forfeit.* That eliminates all these grey areas and forces the FO to do its job.
*And remove any incentive to forfeit by disallowing that loss to factor into any lottery decision.
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shontay33
Joined: 01 Jun 2006
Posts: 471
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| Posted: 08/06/18 12:54 pm ::: |
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| SportsGuru wrote: |
The ownership (MGM Resorts International) should be fined and the WNBA should execute a forfeit against the Las Vegas Aces for refusing to play the game. MGM Resorts International when finding out the travel situation with the Aces should've done an emergency petition to WNBA League Office so their corporate jet could be used for the Aces travel to Washington, D.C.
I feel for the Aces players and Staff but MGM Resorts International could've alleviated the situation.
The Mystics were at the arena waiting for the Aces who refuse to show up, the game should be forfeited and a win awarded to the Mystics. |
Isn't it a league rule that teams have to fly commercial? Also, It may have been too late to petition. Besides, if the airlines canceled flights then obliviously the weather would have been too bad for them to fly charter unless they could have flown in to the closest city not affected by weather and then took a charter bus. Even then with the weather conditions, there is no guarantee that they would have gotten there in enough time anyway.
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CamrnCrz1974
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
Posts: 18371
Location: Phoenix
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| Posted: 08/06/18 1:05 pm ::: |
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| shontay33 wrote: |
| SportsGuru wrote: |
| The ownership (MGM Resorts International) should be fined and the WNBA should execute a forfeit against the Las Vegas Aces for refusing to play the game. MGM Resorts International when finding out the travel situation with the Aces should've done an emergency petition to WNBA League Office so their corporate jet could be used for the Aces travel to Washington, D.C. |
Isn't it a league rule that teams have to fly commercial? Also, It may have been too late to petition. Besides, if the airlines canceled flights then obliviously the weather would have been too bad for them to fly charter unless they could have flown in to the closest city not affected by weather and then took a charter bus. Even then with the weather conditions, there is no guarantee that they would have gotten there in enough time anyway. |
The WNBA gave emergency permission to the Aces and their ownership, MGM Resorts International, late Thursday/early Friday to try to get a charter flight. But nothing could be found that quickly.
http://www.espn.com/wnba/story/_/id/24284445/will-las-vegas-aces-controversial-decision-not-play-travel-woes-effect-change-costly
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RI_Sun_Fan
Joined: 16 Jan 2010
Posts: 858
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| Posted: 08/06/18 1:33 pm ::: |
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| Since it looks the Aces decided not to play, according to their statement, could the Aces players be fined a game check for not reporting to work ?
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Randy
Joined: 08 Oct 2011
Posts: 10911
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| Posted: 08/06/18 3:49 pm ::: |
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| RI_Sun_Fan wrote: |
| Since it looks the Aces decided not to play, according to their statement, could the Aces players be fined a game check for not reporting to work ? |
I think they could be and deciding that issue may be what is taking so long. While I think the league should try to reschedule the game, I doubt they will. I expect it to go down as a forfeit and players getting a nominal fine would not surprise me at all.
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TigerVol
Joined: 16 Jul 2008
Posts: 2209
Location: ATL
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| Posted: 08/06/18 4:42 pm ::: |
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| Randy wrote: |
| RI_Sun_Fan wrote: |
| Since it looks the Aces decided not to play, according to their statement, could the Aces players be fined a game check for not reporting to work ? |
I think they could be and deciding that issue may be what is taking so long. While I think the league should try to reschedule the game, I doubt they will. I expect it to go down as a forfeit and players getting a nominal fine would not surprise me at all. |
Reschedule it when? After the last game reducing Washington's rest and prep time before the playoffs (which I like as a dream fan but I'd have a duck if I were the mystics).
One of the challenges this league still faces is operating successfully within a ton of constraints.
Have to play a certain number of games for the season to work - financially or otherwise.
Season length is dictated or at least heavily influenced by start/finish of other leagues and international tournaments. By ncaa to some degree.
Add to that arena availability and cramming that many games in a relatively Short period of time leaves little flexibility.
In an ideal scenario the top players either only play in the wnba or drive their participation in other leagues by the wnba calendar. The wnba could add more weeks to include some flexibility and more travel days. Even in an Olympic or fiba year.
But we don't have ideal. The league has to compromise on a number of fronts to exist and likely will for some time.
I'm sure some things can improve but looking at the big picture of current state - the need to compromise... For players, leagues and owners isn't going away until the league grows a lot... Or the overseas market falls apart.
I think the league is reasonably stable but not close to the point where there isn't a scenario that makes it more cost effective to fold.
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bballgrl
Joined: 15 Sep 2007
Posts: 3629
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| Posted: 08/07/18 12:16 am ::: |
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| RP wrote: |
| Shades wrote: |
https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/mystics-game-with-las-vegas-is-canceled-when-aces-refuse-to-play-after-travel-woes/2018/08/03/8622d4f2-974f-11e8-810c-5fa705927d54_story.html?utm_term=.b5f315018bc9
| Quote: |
| The circumstances are hardly unique to Las Vegas. The Mystics this season arrived at their hotel for a game at Seattle at 3:30 a.m. and tipped off at 4 p.m. the same day. |
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After a 4 p.m. tip at LA the prior day, as well. |
Arriving at a hotel at 3:am they had several hours to get in a bed and sleep as well has have breakfast and probably lunch before a 4pm tip off.
that is quite different from what happened with the Aces.
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CourtsideTix
Joined: 19 Nov 2004
Posts: 4565
Location: Washington, DC
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| Posted: 08/07/18 6:05 am ::: |
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| Randy wrote: |
I think they could be and deciding that issue may be what is taking so long. While I think the league should try to reschedule the game, I doubt they will. I expect it to go down as a forfeit and players getting a nominal fine would not surprise me at all. |
Apart from the reasons why the game should be a forfeit by the Aces, as discussed over in the "what should happen" thread (and by people like Mechelle Voepel on ESPN), there is no date during the few remaining days of the regular season on which the game could be held that would not create a back to back for the Mystics, which would not be right. (I didn't even look at whether travel would also be involved for them if such a game were to be added.)
And the idea that some folks here have floated of playing the game on Aug. 20 is beyond ridiculous, with teams playing their last regular season games on Aug. 19 and the first round of the playoffs starting on Aug. 21.
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