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Aces @ Mystics - 8/03/18 [Cancelled]
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Who will win this game?
Aces
37%
 37%  [ 6 ]
Mystics
62%
 62%  [ 10 ]
Total Votes : 16

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WNBA 09



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PostPosted: 08/03/18 10:16 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

SportsGuru wrote:
WNBA 09 wrote:
SportsGuru wrote:
The ownership (MGM Resorts International) should be fined and the WNBA should execute a forfeit against the Las Vegas Aces for refusing to play the game. MGM Resorts International when finding out the travel situation with the Aces should've done an emergency petition to WNBA League Office so their corporate jet could be used for the Aces travel to Washington, D.C.

I feel for the Aces players and Staff but MGM Resorts International could've alleviated the situation.

The Mystics were at the arena waiting for the Aces who refuse to show up, the game should be forfeited and a win awarded to the Mystics.


Are you aware if MGM knew the process? They are the newest members so are you 100% sure this was made as a point of emphasis? And if so why did the W not reach out to LVFO? It was all over social media and W offices were tagged in every post so whats good for the goose....This could be one of the ugliest CBA negotiations we've ever seen smh Embarassed. I feel as though this was the spark to the fire.


Bill Laimbeer has been around long enough, he should've been on the blow horn to his superiors at MGM Resorts International. Heck, there's no way if I'm the GM & Head Coach of the Las Vegas Aces will I have my players sleeping in an airport. The so call GM/Head Coach after attempting to get decent accommodations from higher ups should've whipped out the company plastic card.


You should swing him a DM for verification before assuming...ijs. We all know hes a user here.



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SportsGuru



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PostPosted: 08/03/18 10:27 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

WNBA 09 wrote:
SportsGuru wrote:
WNBA 09 wrote:
SportsGuru wrote:
The ownership (MGM Resorts International) should be fined and the WNBA should execute a forfeit against the Las Vegas Aces for refusing to play the game. MGM Resorts International when finding out the travel situation with the Aces should've done an emergency petition to WNBA League Office so their corporate jet could be used for the Aces travel to Washington, D.C.

I feel for the Aces players and Staff but MGM Resorts International could've alleviated the situation.

The Mystics were at the arena waiting for the Aces who refuse to show up, the game should be forfeited and a win awarded to the Mystics.


Are you aware if MGM knew the process? They are the newest members so are you 100% sure this was made as a point of emphasis? And if so why did the W not reach out to LVFO? It was all over social media and W offices were tagged in every post so whats good for the goose....This could be one of the ugliest CBA negotiations we've ever seen smh Embarassed. I feel as though this was the spark to the fire.


Bill Laimbeer has been around long enough, he should've been on the blow horn to his superiors at MGM Resorts International. Heck, there's no way if I'm the GM & Head Coach of the Las Vegas Aces will I have my players sleeping in an airport. The so call GM/Head Coach after attempting to get decent accommodations from higher ups should've whipped out the company plastic card.


You should swing him a DM for verification before assuming...ijs. We all know hes a user here.


Yeah I know LVFO or whatever his handle is these days uses this board from time to time. I'm not here to kiss his or anyone else backside The Las Vegas Aces Player's weren't treated with respect and I don't care who I upset by saying so.


PUmatty



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PostPosted: 08/03/18 10:31 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

SportsGuru wrote:
The ownership (MGM Resorts International) should be fined and the WNBA should execute a forfeit against the Las Vegas Aces for refusing to play the game. MGM Resorts International when finding out the travel situation with the Aces should've done an emergency petition to WNBA League Office so their corporate jet could be used for the Aces travel to Washington, D.C.

I feel for the Aces players and Staff but MGM Resorts International could've alleviated the situation.

The Mystics were at the arena waiting for the Aces who refuse to show up, the game should be forfeited and a win awarded to the Mystics.


I don't know why I am bothering ...

If weather was making it so planes couldn't take off, how in the world would a private plane (that they are not allowed to use, btw) have made any difference?


SportsGuru



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PostPosted: 08/03/18 10:41 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

PUmatty wrote:
SportsGuru wrote:
The ownership (MGM Resorts International) should be fined and the WNBA should execute a forfeit against the Las Vegas Aces for refusing to play the game. MGM Resorts International when finding out the travel situation with the Aces should've done an emergency petition to WNBA League Office so their corporate jet could be used for the Aces travel to Washington, D.C.

I feel for the Aces players and Staff but MGM Resorts International could've alleviated the situation.

The Mystics were at the arena waiting for the Aces who refuse to show up, the game should be forfeited and a win awarded to the Mystics.


I don't know why I am bothering ...

If weather was making it so planes couldn't take off, how in the world would a private plane (that they are not allowed to use, btw) have made any difference?


Weather Forecast, we all watch it to prepare for everyday travel. Also, the team is own by a Major Resort, someone could've easily made a call to a competitor for decent accommodations for the players so they wouldn't have to sleep in an airport.


FrozenLVFan



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PostPosted: 08/03/18 11:54 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

PUmatty wrote:
SportsGuru wrote:
The ownership (MGM Resorts International) should be fined and the WNBA should execute a forfeit against the Las Vegas Aces for refusing to play the game. MGM Resorts International when finding out the travel situation with the Aces should've done an emergency petition to WNBA League Office so their corporate jet could be used for the Aces travel to Washington, D.C.

I feel for the Aces players and Staff but MGM Resorts International could've alleviated the situation.

The Mystics were at the arena waiting for the Aces who refuse to show up, the game should be forfeited and a win awarded to the Mystics.


I don't know why I am bothering ...

If weather was making it so planes couldn't take off, how in the world would a private plane (that they are not allowed to use, btw) have made any difference?


One potential difference is that a private plane, once in the air, could follow a non-stop flight plan to avoid bad weather and to eliminate the possibility of a second delay at another airport which could happen with commercial flights requiring a connection.


bballgrl



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PostPosted: 08/04/18 12:01 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

This is a big mess! I don't for one minute think that the Aces didn't want to play the game. What do you think their legs would have been like in addition to being tired and be expected to run up and down the floor. Bill at least is being concerned for his players. I bet that if the Sparks would find themselves in the same situation they wouldn't have to forfit the game. A poster on here mentioned that Washington had that bad leak and that game was rescheduled so why can't this one be.


WNBA 09



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PostPosted: 08/04/18 12:25 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

SportsGuru wrote:
WNBA 09 wrote:
SportsGuru wrote:
WNBA 09 wrote:
SportsGuru wrote:
The ownership (MGM Resorts International) should be fined and the WNBA should execute a forfeit against the Las Vegas Aces for refusing to play the game. MGM Resorts International when finding out the travel situation with the Aces should've done an emergency petition to WNBA League Office so their corporate jet could be used for the Aces travel to Washington, D.C.

I feel for the Aces players and Staff but MGM Resorts International could've alleviated the situation.

The Mystics were at the arena waiting for the Aces who refuse to show up, the game should be forfeited and a win awarded to the Mystics.


Are you aware if MGM knew the process? They are the newest members so are you 100% sure this was made as a point of emphasis? And if so why did the W not reach out to LVFO? It was all over social media and W offices were tagged in every post so whats good for the goose....This could be one of the ugliest CBA negotiations we've ever seen smh Embarassed. I feel as though this was the spark to the fire.


Bill Laimbeer has been around long enough, he should've been on the blow horn to his superiors at MGM Resorts International. Heck, there's no way if I'm the GM & Head Coach of the Las Vegas Aces will I have my players sleeping in an airport. The so call GM/Head Coach after attempting to get decent accommodations from higher ups should've whipped out the company plastic card.


You should swing him a DM for verification before assuming...ijs. We all know hes a user here.


Yeah I know LVFO or whatever his handle is these days uses this board from time to time. I'm not here to kiss his or anyone else backside The Las Vegas Aces Player's weren't treated with respect and I don't care who I upset by saying so.


But your orginal comment was about how they should be fined? Confused



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root_thing



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PostPosted: 08/04/18 1:15 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Just because MGM Resorts International owns the Aces doesn't make them responsible for the day-to-day operations of the team. The franchise is a separate corporation. How they function is their own responsibility and that of the WNBA. If all WNBA teams travel by commercial flight, then the Aces have to travel commercial. In fact, if MGM provided an unfair advantage to their team through the use of a private jet, then that itself might be some kind of violation.

This is a weather issue. Games get canceled in other sports too. The WNBA League Office should have stepped in and canceled the game earlier as they saw the problems develop. They're the ones who put the Aces in this untenable position. It sounds like the Aces did everything within reason to get to the game. Telling exhausted players they have to go directly to the arena and immediately play a game after a day-long journey where they barely had any sleep is unreasonable. They should not have to forfeit the game. This was beyond their control -- certainly much less so than Washington's arena leak that canceled a game. If that didn't warrant a forfeiture, then bad weather -- an act of God -- certainly doesn't either.



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PostPosted: 08/04/18 5:36 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Sleeping in the airport is one thing, but couldn't they have bought one-day passes to the first-class lounge so they don't have to use their carry-on bag as a pillow? Shocked

Even if the players had to pay for it themselves, the United and American Express Platinum lounge passes in LV are ~$50, have daybeds and free food/drink. Or are lounges not allowed due to it being a part of the unfair advantage? Question



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Richyyy



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PostPosted: 08/04/18 6:24 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:
This is a weather issue. Games get canceled in other sports too. The WNBA League Office should have stepped in and canceled the game earlier as they saw the problems develop. They're the ones who put the Aces in this untenable position. It sounds like the Aces did everything within reason to get to the game.

That depends. They booked a pretty late flight in terms of the initial option, when most teams probably would've booked a much earlier option, giving them more leeway if things went wrong. Does that make them culpable?

Also of note, no idea how reliable this guy is as a source, but according to him the Aces were given approval the day before to use a charter if necessary to get to this game: https://twitter.com/BySamGordon/status/1025535333545308163



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PostPosted: 08/04/18 6:26 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

No one can control the weather, but the Aces chose to fly to D.C. just about as late as possible Thursday. Take a morning flight like everyone else does. Poor planning.


Randy



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PostPosted: 08/04/18 7:10 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Aces started trying to get to DC the day before the game. The post below was posted on August 2 by pilight at 7:49 PM - Aces had already been waiting for 7 hours at the airport.

http://boards.rebkell.net/viewtopic.php?t=94780&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=50



They also slept overnight at the airport and stated in their statement they had been traveling over 24 hours. So they can't be blamed for taking too late of a flight.

Also - even if authorized to get a charter it may not have been possible to get one willing to fly in bad weather and any available might have been in high demand.

As for not buying them a hotel room - the issue may have been the airlines doing their usual game of telling people - to stay at the gate or just not telling them anything.


Quote:


Also, reliability issues with commercial schedules...

https://twitter.com/kaymac_2123/status/1025179027424694277

Quote:
Going on hour 7 in the airport. Hoping we can get this resolved. Not trying to travel all night with a stop and have to play a big game tomorrow #SOS #CompetitiveDisadvantage #LAPhotobomb 😂



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PostPosted: 08/04/18 7:36 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

But that's the whole point of most teams booking to leave earlier - things can go this wrong and you still have time for a little sleep and/or a shootaround before the game. It's another thing to throw on the list if you're Washington and you have to argue that you should be awarded the win rather than having to reschedule - we would've got there sooner, and played.

The charter thing's weird, because why would they have been granted permission unless someone saw it might be necessary and asked, intending to potentially use it as an option? Maybe they asked and then couldn't find one (wouldn't MGM have their own planes that might be available?), but still odd.

It's also all obviously complicated by there being so little time left in the season. If this happens in May then you've got lots of time to find a slot to reschedule, and to offer a little leniency to the team that pulled out. At this point I really think granting Washington the win is the most likely outcome.



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SportsGuru



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PostPosted: 08/04/18 7:37 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

It sounds to me MGM got caught being cheap. A Non-Stop Commercial Flight should've been scheduled in advance from Las Vegas to BWI, DCA or to Philly with a bus or train ride to DC

MGM Resorts International calls itself being a 1st class organization, well the Aces weren't treated with 1st class treatment. It probably sounds harsh but it appears to me MGM Resort International are using the Las Vegas Aces as a stepping stone to acquire a NBA team.


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PostPosted: 08/04/18 8:24 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

It'll be interesting to hear Borders put a positive spin on this if she issues a press release.



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Randy



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PostPosted: 08/04/18 8:43 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

SportsGuru wrote:
It sounds to me MGM got caught being cheap. A Non-Stop Commercial Flight should've been scheduled in advance from Las Vegas to BWI, DCA or to Philly with a bus or train ride to DC

MGM Resorts International calls itself being a 1st class organization, well the Aces weren't treated with 1st class treatment. It probably sounds harsh but it appears to me MGM Resort International are using the Las Vegas Aces as a stepping stone to acquire a NBA team.


Not sure that's a valid criticism. The original flight the team scheduled was cancelled after an 8 hour delay. So they were re-routed through Dallas and things went downhill from there.



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PostPosted: 08/04/18 9:09 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Randy wrote:
SportsGuru wrote:
It sounds to me MGM got caught being cheap. A Non-Stop Commercial Flight should've been scheduled in advance from Las Vegas to BWI, DCA or to Philly with a bus or train ride to DC

MGM Resorts International calls itself being a 1st class organization, well the Aces weren't treated with 1st class treatment. It probably sounds harsh but it appears to me MGM Resort International are using the Las Vegas Aces as a stepping stone to acquire a NBA team.


Not sure that's a valid criticism. The original flight the team scheduled was cancelled after an 8 hour delay. So they were re-routed through Dallas and things went downhill from there.


I wonder what MGM Resorts International would've done if one of their higher ups was sitting in a Las Vegas Airport all that time and had an important meeting to attend.


Shades



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PostPosted: 08/04/18 11:12 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/mystics-game-with-las-vegas-is-canceled-when-aces-refuse-to-play-after-travel-woes/2018/08/03/8622d4f2-974f-11e8-810c-5fa705927d54_story.html?utm_term=.b5f315018bc9

Quote:
The WNBA is reviewing the matter and won’t be making additional comment for at least 24 hours, according to a person familiar with the league’s thinking who spoke to The Washington Post on the condition of anonymity because of the sensitive nature of the circumstances. It’s the first time in WNBA history that a game was canceled, according to the Elias Sports Bureau.


Feinberg?

So in 22 years, this is the first time players were inconvenienced because they didn’t sleep in beds instead of chairs?

Quote:
Because the league used the word “canceled” in its official release, it appears highly unlikely, people familiar with the situation said, that the game would be rescheduled. The Mystics almost certainly would protest a rescheduled game because not only were they prepared to play, but the Aces were in town, having landed at Reagan National Airport at about 2:20 p.m.



Quote:
“I’m really disappointed that the Las Vegas players and organization didn’t come to compete,” Washington Coach and General Manager Mike Thibault said. “Every team I’ve been around in the WNBA or the NBA or the old CBA goes through this. College teams go through it, and you have an obligation to the fans who paid money to come watch you play. If you’re there and in the city and can play, you should show up and play.”



Quote:
At first I was shocked, and then I didn’t believe it,” Mystics forward Monique Currie said. “I thought maybe they would come, but then when Coach came in and told us it was official, kind of still processing it and trying to figure out what it means for the league, where we’re going in the future and what type of situations and issues we have to deal with in this league.”


It’s a new era. Somebody will be filling a protest and supporting each other through social media every time a situation is less than perfect.

Quote:
“No shoot around. No night of sleep. No beds. No food,” Las Vegas guard Kayla McBride tweeted before the team’s flight took off from Dallas. “Right now we will land in DC at 245pm that has us going straight to the gym bc of traffic and bags . . . and you want us to play? Oh ok.”


There was no food, no water, no air to breathe. No sunlight to produce Vitamin D. We walked 5 miles through sand dunes to get to the airport. No wi-fi passwords. We felt like prisoners in shackles. We arrived nearly 6 hours before the game, and you expect us to play?

Quote:
The circumstances are hardly unique to Las Vegas. The Mystics this season arrived at their hotel for a game at Seattle at 3:30 a.m. and tipped off at 4 p.m. the same day.

Thibault also recounted the time as coach of the Connecticut Sun when, during a 2003 blackout, he and his players bused back to their arena from Cleveland, changed and arrived in New York less than an hour before tip-off.



Quote:
“This is a first for me, so I have not experienced that,” said Currie, a 12-year veteran in the WNBA. “I can’t be in [the Aces’] shoes, and I don’t know how they’re feeling. It’s been a long day for them; I do understand that. The competitor in me, I know that I would have played. But people have their feelings, and like I said, I can’t speak for them.”



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PostPosted: 08/04/18 11:57 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/mystics-game-with-las-vegas-is-canceled-when-aces-refuse-to-play-after-travel-woes/2018/08/03/8622d4f2-974f-11e8-810c-5fa705927d54_story.html?utm_term=.b5f315018bc9

Quote:
The circumstances are hardly unique to Las Vegas. The Mystics this season arrived at their hotel for a game at Seattle at 3:30 a.m. and tipped off at 4 p.m. the same day.


After a 4 p.m. tip at LA the prior day, as well.


SportsGuru



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PostPosted: 08/04/18 3:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I wonder how many times the Harlem Globetrotters in their history traveling the world ran into the same situation the Las Vegas Aces had in their mishap travel to Washington DC but the Harlem Globetrotters still performed.


FrozenLVFan



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PostPosted: 08/04/18 5:58 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

This could have been avoided if LV mgmt had been more proactive and after obtaining that league permission, actually found a charter when the initial flight out of LV had been held up for the mechanical issues x 4 hrs, instead of waiting an additional 4 hrs, then scrambling with connections in Dallas which were delayed further due to weather. I'd bet they could have landed somewhere within a couple hrs of DC by 12MN ET.


toad455



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PostPosted: 08/04/18 6:43 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

So now official announcement from Borders about this? I guess not until Monday now?



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SportsGuru



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PostPosted: 08/04/18 8:05 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

FrozenLVFan wrote:
This could have been avoided if LV mgmt had been more proactive and after obtaining that league permission, actually found a charter when the initial flight out of LV had been held up for the mechanical issues x 4 hrs, instead of waiting an additional 4 hrs, then scrambling with connections in Dallas which were delayed further due to weather. I'd bet they could have landed somewhere within a couple hrs of DC by 12MN ET.


I've been saying all along the Las Vegas Aces Management wasn't proactive enough to aleve the mishaps the Las Vegas Aces' team had traveling to DC. This Aces forfeiture and fine should be on the Las Vegas Aces Management including Bill Laimbeer not the Players.


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PostPosted: 08/04/18 8:10 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Aces waiting to hear WNBA decision on canceled game

https://apnews.com/c69ffcda43674cc88d60d1781e34750b/Aces-waiting-to-hear-WNBA-decision-on-canceled-game

Quote:
We requested the game be postponed and rescheduled and understood there may be consequences for this



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PostPosted: 08/04/18 8:41 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
Aces waiting to hear WNBA decision on canceled game

https://apnews.com/c69ffcda43674cc88d60d1781e34750b/Aces-waiting-to-hear-WNBA-decision-on-canceled-game

Quote:
We requested the game be postponed and rescheduled and understood there may be consequences for this


The Las Vegas Aces Organization and Players still don't get it, Friday Night was not only a schedule game but It was also Breast Cancer Awareness night at the Cap One Arena in Washington, D.C.


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PostPosted: 08/04/18 11:12 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

SportsGuru wrote:
pilight wrote:
Aces waiting to hear WNBA decision on canceled game

https://apnews.com/c69ffcda43674cc88d60d1781e34750b/Aces-waiting-to-hear-WNBA-decision-on-canceled-game

Quote:
We requested the game be postponed and rescheduled and understood there may be consequences for this


The Las Vegas Aces Organization and Players still don't get it, Friday Night was not only a schedule game but It was also Breast Cancer Awareness night at the Cap One Arena in Washington, D.C.


But were the 100 fans in attendance just as happy getting autographs and interacting with the players?



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PostPosted: 08/05/18 1:08 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

myrtle wrote:
But were the 100 fans in attendance just as happy getting autographs and interacting with the players?


I suppose you think you are being very funny. Ha ha.

But what the LV players did had real consequences, from a business perspective in term of the Mystics' owners, and to the fans who were there. There are huge costs to opening an arena, even if you own it. You are paying the arena game-day staff (ushers, ticket takers, cleaners, etc.), the security people, the concessions. And now the refund of ticket payments.

In terms of the fans, it's a huge, time-consuming pain in the ass to get to that arena in the middle of downtown DC on a weekday evening during rush hour, whether you are driving or taking Metro. And costly; Metro isn't cheap, and it costs a bundle to park. Imagine having crawled into the city in rush hour traffic and then forked over $25 to park only to learn that the LV players were in town but were refusing to come over to the arena and play. I'm sure the fans were just delighted.

So, ha ha,you are so clever.


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PostPosted: 08/05/18 6:52 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

One issue not raised is whether the Mystics will be giving fans refunds. Does anybody know what happens in baseball when a game is rained out? Or what the Mystics did when their arena had the leak in the roof?



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PostPosted: 08/05/18 7:17 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The Mystics said on the night that all tickets would be automatically refunded, plus everyone would get a ticket for another Mystics game, plus they had that autograph session instead of the game. Washington did pretty much everything you could ask of them given the situation they were left in.

How they handle the cash issues could be another awkward little element of this. If the League decides the Aces should've played, does the Aces organisation owe the Mystics money? Do the Aces players or the WNBPA owe them money? Have fun with that one.



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PostPosted: 08/05/18 10:10 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Randy wrote:
One issue not raised is whether the Mystics will be giving fans refunds. Does anybody know what happens in baseball when a game is rained out? Or what the Mystics did when their arena had the leak in the roof?


The Mystics announced very early, essentially right at the same time as the game cancellation, that they would both give refunds and a ticket to a future game. When a baseball games gets rained out fans are generally given the alternative of a refund or a ticket to a future game.


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PostPosted: 08/05/18 11:30 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
The Mystics said on the night that all tickets would be automatically refunded, plus everyone would get a ticket for another Mystics game, plus they had that autograph session instead of the game. Washington did pretty much everything you could ask of them given the situation they were left in.

How they handle the cash issues could be another awkward little element of this. If the League decides the Aces should've played, does the Aces organisation owe the Mystics money? Do the Aces players or the WNBPA owe them money? Have fun with that one.


I can see Aces Management pointing out they got the team to DC safely but the Aces Players and WNBAPA decided not to play the game, the Aces Players and WNBAPA then will give evidence of what a Doctor said, the NBA will tell the WNBA the heck with this horse manure, forfeit the game, issue a fine against Aces Management for the money the Mystics loss and take the Aces 2019 1st rd draft pick from them.


sportsfan48



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PostPosted: 08/05/18 1:57 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I know that there are teams who have gotten to the city and arena late because of travel problems. It has happened to the Mercury a couple of times. But their circumstances were traveling a much shorter distance and inconvenienced a lot less. Has there ever been a situation where a team had to spend 24+ hours in travel time without proper rest and nutrients just prior to a game?

I do not think there are many, if any, on this board or anywhere else who can speak for how the players felt after their ordeal. We are talking about a 24+ timeframe. The ACES players are the only ones who can make the determination of how they felt. They are professionals which, IMO, makes it even more important that they make a wise, thoughtful, and researched decision concerning their health.

And most important, you cannot downplay the possibility of injury. If the league does not support the decision of the players (which was based on safety and possibility of injury with proven support) they are basically saying that they don't care if players are at greater risk for injury. The message they would send, IMO, is that the league is more interested in the bottom line than the health and safety of their players. Just because they were in town before the game and it has happened to others does not warrant an immediate "they must play" decision.

I am not an ACES fan, BTW. I am a fan of the WNBA, however, and want to see the players healthy and able to play to the best of their ability.


WNBA 09



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PostPosted: 08/05/18 2:33 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

No ones taking anyones 2019 1st rd pick. Laughing



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Richyyy



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PostPosted: 08/05/18 2:35 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

sportsfan48 wrote:
And most important, you cannot downplay the possibility of injury. If the league does not support the decision of the players (which was based on safety and possibility of injury with proven support) they are basically saying that they don't care if players are at greater risk for injury. The message they would send, IMO, is that the league is more interested in the bottom line than the health and safety of their players. Just because they were in town before the game and it has happened to others does not warrant an immediate "they must play" decision.

But then where do you draw the line? Because teams deal with 'some' delays all the time, and then play anyway. At what point does it become okay to say "well we're here now, but we're not playing anyway"? And in their standard scheduling the WNBA implicitly say they're okay with whatever increased possibility of injury comes with playing back-to-backs, invariably with a flight either the night of the first game or morning of the second.

And beyond that, how much do you say it's the Aces' fault anyway for not scheduling an earlier flight in the first place? There are a lot of flights scheduled from Vegas to the various Washington airports over the course of a day, and if they booked earlier they'd have had more options and chances to get there anyway.

I do agree that the League is going to have to be careful with how they word their response to all this, and how they apportion blame. Player safety obviously has to be important (although I bet they can find doctors who'd claim the increase in chance of injury was minimal). But you also can't set a precedent for teams to get out of scheduling they don't like by just not showing up and getting away with it. Much as I'd have liked a quick response from the League I kinda understand them taking their time to gauge all of the factors involved.



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SportsGuru



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PostPosted: 08/05/18 2:50 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

sportsfan48 wrote:
I know that there are teams who have gotten to the city and arena late because of travel problems. It has happened to the Mercury a couple of times. But their circumstances were traveling a much shorter distance and inconvenienced a lot less. Has there ever been a situation where a team had to spend 24+ hours in travel time without proper rest and nutrients just prior to a game?

I do not think there are many, if any, on this board or anywhere else who can speak for how the players felt after their ordeal. We are talking about a 24+ timeframe. The ACES players are the only ones who can make the determination of how they felt. They are professionals which, IMO, makes it even more important that they make a wise, thoughtful, and researched decision concerning their health.

And most important, you cannot downplay the possibility of injury. If the league does not support the decision of the players (which was based on safety and possibility of injury with proven support) they are basically saying that they don't care if players are at greater risk for injury. The message they would send, IMO, is that the league is more interested in the bottom line than the health and safety of their players. Just because they were in town before the game and it has happened to others does not warrant an immediate "they must play" decision.

I am not an ACES fan, BTW. I am a fan of the WNBA, however, and want to see the players healthy and able to play to the best of their ability.


Players are at risk anytime they lace up their sneakers. I wonder what Michael Jordan's doctor told him when he was sick as a canine before the game he scored 38 points.


NYL_WNBA_FAN



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PostPosted: 08/05/18 3:04 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I can’t decide how I feel about it. On one hand, we’ve seen an unusually condensed schedule that resulted in an 11am flight cross-country the day after a night game. Even factoring the loss of 3 hours, that’s still plenty of time to get to DC in an ordinary situation, so I’m not sure I fault Vegas there. And the scheduling leaves little margin for error for a long trip so close to the next game.

OTOH, if you allow the rescheduling of this game then you’re basically saying the rules don’t matter, as well as establishing a precedent for other teams to do the same.

Personally I think the league should have postponed the game as soon as it was evident that travel from Dallas wasn’t happening in a timely manner. But I get why people wouldn’t agree and why the Mystics would be upset.



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FrozenLVFan



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PostPosted: 08/06/18 11:23 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
But then where do you draw the line? Because teams deal with 'some' delays all the time, and then play anyway. At what point does it become okay to say "well we're here now, but we're not playing anyway"? And in their standard scheduling the WNBA implicitly say they're okay with whatever increased possibility of injury comes with playing back-to-backs, invariably with a flight either the night of the first game or morning of the second.


I think there's an easy solution going forward. The league removes the travel restrictions and puts the onus squarely on the team management for all travel arrangements. The team has to show up for the game and play, unless there's clearly an extenuating circumstance like a blizzard or terrorist attack. If they don't play, they forfeit.* That eliminates all these grey areas and forces the FO to do its job.

*And remove any incentive to forfeit by disallowing that loss to factor into any lottery decision.


shontay33



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PostPosted: 08/06/18 12:54 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

SportsGuru wrote:
The ownership (MGM Resorts International) should be fined and the WNBA should execute a forfeit against the Las Vegas Aces for refusing to play the game. MGM Resorts International when finding out the travel situation with the Aces should've done an emergency petition to WNBA League Office so their corporate jet could be used for the Aces travel to Washington, D.C.

I feel for the Aces players and Staff but MGM Resorts International could've alleviated the situation.

The Mystics were at the arena waiting for the Aces who refuse to show up, the game should be forfeited and a win awarded to the Mystics.


Isn't it a league rule that teams have to fly commercial? Also, It may have been too late to petition. Besides, if the airlines canceled flights then obliviously the weather would have been too bad for them to fly charter unless they could have flown in to the closest city not affected by weather and then took a charter bus. Even then with the weather conditions, there is no guarantee that they would have gotten there in enough time anyway.


CamrnCrz1974



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PostPosted: 08/06/18 1:05 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

shontay33 wrote:
SportsGuru wrote:
The ownership (MGM Resorts International) should be fined and the WNBA should execute a forfeit against the Las Vegas Aces for refusing to play the game. MGM Resorts International when finding out the travel situation with the Aces should've done an emergency petition to WNBA League Office so their corporate jet could be used for the Aces travel to Washington, D.C.


Isn't it a league rule that teams have to fly commercial? Also, It may have been too late to petition. Besides, if the airlines canceled flights then obliviously the weather would have been too bad for them to fly charter unless they could have flown in to the closest city not affected by weather and then took a charter bus. Even then with the weather conditions, there is no guarantee that they would have gotten there in enough time anyway.


The WNBA gave emergency permission to the Aces and their ownership, MGM Resorts International, late Thursday/early Friday to try to get a charter flight. But nothing could be found that quickly.


http://www.espn.com/wnba/story/_/id/24284445/will-las-vegas-aces-controversial-decision-not-play-travel-woes-effect-change-costly


RI_Sun_Fan



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PostPosted: 08/06/18 1:33 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Since it looks the Aces decided not to play, according to their statement, could the Aces players be fined a game check for not reporting to work ?


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PostPosted: 08/06/18 3:49 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

RI_Sun_Fan wrote:
Since it looks the Aces decided not to play, according to their statement, could the Aces players be fined a game check for not reporting to work ?


I think they could be and deciding that issue may be what is taking so long. While I think the league should try to reschedule the game, I doubt they will. I expect it to go down as a forfeit and players getting a nominal fine would not surprise me at all.



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TigerVol



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PostPosted: 08/06/18 4:42 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Randy wrote:
RI_Sun_Fan wrote:
Since it looks the Aces decided not to play, according to their statement, could the Aces players be fined a game check for not reporting to work ?


I think they could be and deciding that issue may be what is taking so long. While I think the league should try to reschedule the game, I doubt they will. I expect it to go down as a forfeit and players getting a nominal fine would not surprise me at all.


Reschedule it when? After the last game reducing Washington's rest and prep time before the playoffs (which I like as a dream fan but I'd have a duck if I were the mystics).

One of the challenges this league still faces is operating successfully within a ton of constraints.

Have to play a certain number of games for the season to work - financially or otherwise.

Season length is dictated or at least heavily influenced by start/finish of other leagues and international tournaments. By ncaa to some degree.

Add to that arena availability and cramming that many games in a relatively Short period of time leaves little flexibility.

In an ideal scenario the top players either only play in the wnba or drive their participation in other leagues by the wnba calendar. The wnba could add more weeks to include some flexibility and more travel days. Even in an Olympic or fiba year.

But we don't have ideal. The league has to compromise on a number of fronts to exist and likely will for some time.

I'm sure some things can improve but looking at the big picture of current state - the need to compromise... For players, leagues and owners isn't going away until the league grows a lot... Or the overseas market falls apart.

I think the league is reasonably stable but not close to the point where there isn't a scenario that makes it more cost effective to fold.



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bballgrl



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PostPosted: 08/07/18 12:16 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

RP wrote:
Shades wrote:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/mystics-game-with-las-vegas-is-canceled-when-aces-refuse-to-play-after-travel-woes/2018/08/03/8622d4f2-974f-11e8-810c-5fa705927d54_story.html?utm_term=.b5f315018bc9

Quote:
The circumstances are hardly unique to Las Vegas. The Mystics this season arrived at their hotel for a game at Seattle at 3:30 a.m. and tipped off at 4 p.m. the same day.


After a 4 p.m. tip at LA the prior day, as well.


Arriving at a hotel at 3:am they had several hours to get in a bed and sleep as well has have breakfast and probably lunch before a 4pm tip off.
that is quite different from what happened with the Aces.


CourtsideTix



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PostPosted: 08/07/18 6:05 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Randy wrote:

I think they could be and deciding that issue may be what is taking so long. While I think the league should try to reschedule the game, I doubt they will. I expect it to go down as a forfeit and players getting a nominal fine would not surprise me at all.


Apart from the reasons why the game should be a forfeit by the Aces, as discussed over in the "what should happen" thread (and by people like Mechelle Voepel on ESPN), there is no date during the few remaining days of the regular season on which the game could be held that would not create a back to back for the Mystics, which would not be right. (I didn't even look at whether travel would also be involved for them if such a game were to be added.)

And the idea that some folks here have floated of playing the game on Aug. 20 is beyond ridiculous, with teams playing their last regular season games on Aug. 19 and the first round of the playoffs starting on Aug. 21.


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