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NYL_WNBA_FAN
Joined: 28 May 2007 Posts: 14097
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Posted: 07/06/18 10:17 am ::: |
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I’m just waking up angry with this one thought. The sheer effort isn’t there to the extent that they need. How many times in the last three games have people not picked up the right man going back down court after MADE baskets? That should NEVER happen. Let alone the transition D after misses where nobody can be bothered to stop the ball (other than Boyd and Nurse) until the D is already broken down. And poor Tina carrying the team on her back while some of her teammates can’t be bothered to play D. She did an admirable job guarding EDD. Scoring, passing and rebounding vs. double teams and such a poor response from her teammates.
At this point I’m willing to watch Boyd, Zahui and Nurse play 30 minutes each and it’s not only for developmental reasons. We know those three will give it everything they’ve got even if there will be mental mistakes in the process. I’m tired of seeing the lack of heart. And I love Z. She’s one of my fav players but she’s culpable too. She said in an article before the season that the team needed to show more heart in one and dones. So where’s your presence and leadership now that the team is struggling?
_________________ The poster formerly known as LibWNBAFan.
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toad455
Joined: 16 Nov 2005 Posts: 22474 Location: NJ
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Posted: 07/06/18 10:24 am ::: |
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For this first time in a while, I'm actually rooting for a different team this season. I've given up on the Liberty this season. From Smith's unexplainable rotations, her unwilling ability to have her team play D, to not using Nurse and Zahui B more and mostly for the team being displaced in Westchester. There's just no desire to watch this team anymore this season.
_________________ LET'S GO LIBERTY!!!!!!
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NYL_WNBA_FAN
Joined: 28 May 2007 Posts: 14097
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Posted: 07/06/18 10:31 am ::: |
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I feel you. I’m trying to hang in there plus obviously I have the season tickets. At some point they’ll have to admit the obvious...that they’re going nowhere and they need to look harder at the younger players. When they do I feel like at least viewing their development will be a plus in this otherwise horrible season.
Vegas seems to be finding its way under Laimbeer. I’ll keep an eye on them too I guess.
_________________ The poster formerly known as LibWNBAFan.
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NYL_WNBA_FAN
Joined: 28 May 2007 Posts: 14097
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Posted: 07/06/18 10:36 am ::: |
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Oh and assuming we miss the playoffs, our odds of moving up are 24.8%. Not great but hardly impossible.
_________________ The poster formerly known as LibWNBAFan.
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Lib Fan
Joined: 10 May 2005 Posts: 4593 Location: New York City
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Posted: 07/06/18 11:41 am ::: |
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NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote: |
I feel you. I’m trying to hang in there plus obviously I have the season tickets. At some point they’ll have to admit the obvious...that they’re going nowhere and they need to look harder at the younger players. |
Oh where do you sit ?
and you have not gotten to that point yet ?
_________________ Lets Go Liberty
Brooklyn 2021
Bring Back Maddie!
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NYL_WNBA_FAN
Joined: 28 May 2007 Posts: 14097
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Posted: 07/06/18 12:05 pm ::: |
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I’ve gotten pretty close to that point. I’m just figuring Katie will get to that point too sooner or later.
_________________ The poster formerly known as LibWNBAFan.
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Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005 Posts: 24356 Location: London
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Posted: 07/06/18 12:26 pm ::: |
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You wonder if Charles will get 'injured' once the playoff spots start to look really distant rather than just unlikely. You could imagine her not wanting to bother carrying the offense on her back at that point, plus winning becomes a negative in some ways at some point. |
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Nixtreefan
Joined: 14 Nov 2012 Posts: 2539
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bballjunkie
Joined: 12 Aug 2014 Posts: 785
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Posted: 07/06/18 5:37 pm ::: |
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WNBA 09 wrote: |
NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote: |
Regarding the discussion about Samuelson, I watched the whole UConn-ND game to really get a feel. Offensively, I like the handle for a 6'3" player and really like the passing. I think that height will be tough to match up against.
On defense, she struggled, as she did rebounding. However, she did play through an ankle injury that she had surgery on in April, so whether that impacted her play is up in the air. I'll say if she was reasonably mobile for a 6'3" player while playing on an ankle that required surgery after the season, that bodes well for significant improvement,
Here's the thing to me with the other parts of her game. You don't want to look at her junior year as being representative of what she will always be. Players alter their diets, their workouts and just learn things that improve their style of play. I'm looking at physical attributes that will carry over to the pro game. Her problem on defense is the size of her body. Her lateral movement is acceptable. Her length is very good. So the question becomes, is her body projectible to add muscle? I'd say the answer is yes. Her legs are rail thin. Her arms are thin and not terribly muscular. Her shoulders, however, are not thin. That demonstrates to me that her likelihood of adding muscle and overall body strength are good, because she has a projectible frame. And I admit she was just bouncing off of people, especially under the glass. But first off, was the ankle (balance and base) a factor in that? And again, the question is not what she is today. The question is, what can she become? I think her body frame leaves room for improvement.
Also, I don't want a guard 5'10" or under unless that guard proves to be a very gifted passer. I've had enough of the players who score and bring little else to the table. I like Arike and I like Durr. I don't, however, love either one for NY unless they upgrade the playmaking aspects of their play. We have enough guards who score but don't have a complete profile otherwise. A lineup with KLS and Nurse will wind up causing matchup problems for opponents once you put four players 6 feet or better on the floor together. Especially when four of those players can actually pass the ball and make their teammates better.
Again, KLS would not be my preferred choice. I'd prefer Ionescu (if she declares) or either of McCowan or Brown. I do think for the Liberty KLS is a better choice than smaller guards who may not have versatility. We have too many already. |
There's that being naive / blind to UCONN players having deficiencies as i spoke about . She was a horrible defender before she had ankle surgery a FULL year before the ND - UCONN match up . Her minute restrictions had been over since the December match up with ND so im not buying her ankle as an excuse tbh . But If the Libs want KLS im fine with that , we will take Ogumbowale or Durr if we are anywhere near the Top 6 picks Again #WFFL |
Wrong. Get your facts straight. KLS suffered the injury during the Cal game when their player landed on the back of her ankle when she was going up for a rebound. That tore her ligaments and tendon. Minutes had nothing to do with her injury as she decided to put off surgery and play in pain. They had problems with the brace and it was adapted to try and stop the ankle going over. She played in pain for the rest of the season and was an AA basically on 1 leg. 4 fouls, 2 of which were bogus in the semi early in the game screwed with her and 2 of our other players.
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WNBA 09
Joined: 26 Jun 2009 Posts: 12538 Location: Dallas , Texas
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Posted: 07/06/18 6:00 pm ::: |
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bballjunkie wrote: |
WNBA 09 wrote: |
NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote: |
Regarding the discussion about Samuelson, I watched the whole UConn-ND game to really get a feel. Offensively, I like the handle for a 6'3" player and really like the passing. I think that height will be tough to match up against.
On defense, she struggled, as she did rebounding. However, she did play through an ankle injury that she had surgery on in April, so whether that impacted her play is up in the air. I'll say if she was reasonably mobile for a 6'3" player while playing on an ankle that required surgery after the season, that bodes well for significant improvement,
Here's the thing to me with the other parts of her game. You don't want to look at her junior year as being representative of what she will always be. Players alter their diets, their workouts and just learn things that improve their style of play. I'm looking at physical attributes that will carry over to the pro game. Her problem on defense is the size of her body. Her lateral movement is acceptable. Her length is very good. So the question becomes, is her body projectible to add muscle? I'd say the answer is yes. Her legs are rail thin. Her arms are thin and not terribly muscular. Her shoulders, however, are not thin. That demonstrates to me that her likelihood of adding muscle and overall body strength are good, because she has a projectible frame. And I admit she was just bouncing off of people, especially under the glass. But first off, was the ankle (balance and base) a factor in that? And again, the question is not what she is today. The question is, what can she become? I think her body frame leaves room for improvement.
Also, I don't want a guard 5'10" or under unless that guard proves to be a very gifted passer. I've had enough of the players who score and bring little else to the table. I like Arike and I like Durr. I don't, however, love either one for NY unless they upgrade the playmaking aspects of their play. We have enough guards who score but don't have a complete profile otherwise. A lineup with KLS and Nurse will wind up causing matchup problems for opponents once you put four players 6 feet or better on the floor together. Especially when four of those players can actually pass the ball and make their teammates better.
Again, KLS would not be my preferred choice. I'd prefer Ionescu (if she declares) or either of McCowan or Brown. I do think for the Liberty KLS is a better choice than smaller guards who may not have versatility. We have too many already. |
There's that being naive / blind to UCONN players having deficiencies as i spoke about . She was a horrible defender before she had ankle surgery a FULL year before the ND - UCONN match up . Her minute restrictions had been over since the December match up with ND so im not buying her ankle as an excuse tbh . But If the Libs want KLS im fine with that , we will take Ogumbowale or Durr if we are anywhere near the Top 6 picks Again #WFFL |
Wrong. Get your facts straight. KLS suffered the injury during the Cal game when their player landed on the back of her ankle when she was going up for a rebound. That tore her ligaments and tendon. Minutes had nothing to do with her injury as she decided to put off surgery and play in pain. They had problems with the brace and it was adapted to try and stop the ankle going over. She played in pain for the rest of the season and was an AA basically on 1 leg. 4 fouls, 2 of which were bogus in the semi early in the game screwed with her and 2 of our other players. |
Sureeeee....thats it
_________________ 3-Time WNBA Champion-3-Time National Champion-4-Time Olympic Champion....And Yes DT "We Got Confeti" lol
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NYL_WNBA_FAN
Joined: 28 May 2007 Posts: 14097
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myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008 Posts: 32335
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Posted: 07/07/18 10:44 am ::: |
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I played one season with extensive ligament damage in one ankle (essentially without the tape job the ankle just flops there at the end of the leg - it's pretty gross) and it was not fun. Lots of pain. The good part was that after surgery it only took about three months to be back almost as good as new and it has never bothered me since. So assuming it was a similar thing, I think she really should be back full strength for next season.
_________________ For there is always light,
if only we’re brave enough to see it.
If only we’re brave enough to be it.
- Amanda Gorman
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NYL_WNBA_FAN
Joined: 28 May 2007 Posts: 14097
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Posted: 07/07/18 1:20 pm ::: |
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J-Spoon wrote: |
My counter argument
Tonight we scored 67 points
We have the 10th worst offense
ATM we have one double digit scorer with Nurse clocking in at 2nd most ppg with 9.3
So yes a player whose #1 skill is scoring would be a good addition for NY
Also both players in question shot 40% from 3 and have pretty remarkable physiques for being 5' 10" and 5' 8" respectively
A player who can score a lot will help out their teammates by simply making the other teams defense work harder. If Durr or Ogunbowale live up to their potential they will require double teams making it easier for the other perimeter players to score. Right now team can double and triple Charles and are rarely made to pay for it by the rest of the team, hopefully that would be different if we had an elite scorer on the perimeter.
My comps for them would be for better or worse Sims, Young Prince, Loyd, McBride, Sykes, Hayes, healthy R. Williams, C. Gray without elite play making skill, Deshields pretty much somewhere in that range. Not saying they have identical games to any of those players but I think they will be in the same range career wise with their ability to score (I think they're both a little bigger and stronger than say Plum or K. Mitchell and better scorers than say A. Gray or Davis).
Luckily we will have a whole college season to discuss this. |
Arike is also an energy player, a needed quality as well.
_________________ The poster formerly known as LibWNBAFan.
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WNBA 09
Joined: 26 Jun 2009 Posts: 12538 Location: Dallas , Texas
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Posted: 07/07/18 4:29 pm ::: |
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Im not saying her injury was mot real i mean the gal had surgery for Crist sake . Crazy how when she has a great game at UCONN shes back and 100% but when she performs poorly its awee shes hurt! Tired of it...
_________________ 3-Time WNBA Champion-3-Time National Champion-4-Time Olympic Champion....And Yes DT "We Got Confeti" lol
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NYL_WNBA_FAN
Joined: 28 May 2007 Posts: 14097
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Posted: 07/08/18 4:16 pm ::: |
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Not sure I can do this trip 5 more times. They’re 1-7 in the games I’ve attended. I’ve left early 4 times.
_________________ The poster formerly known as LibWNBAFan.
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toad455
Joined: 16 Nov 2005 Posts: 22474 Location: NJ
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Posted: 07/08/18 5:21 pm ::: |
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NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote: |
Not sure I can do this trip 5 more times. They’re 1-7 in the games I’ve attended. I’ve left early 4 times. |
I was going to go next Sunday, but don't feel like making the trip to watch them lose badly again.
_________________ LET'S GO LIBERTY!!!!!!
Twitter: @TBRBWAY
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NYL_WNBA_FAN
Joined: 28 May 2007 Posts: 14097
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Posted: 07/08/18 6:09 pm ::: |
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I may take the loss on the tickets so as not to pay the metro north at this point. The only plus to the blowouts is being able to catch the early train.
_________________ The poster formerly known as LibWNBAFan.
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toad455
Joined: 16 Nov 2005 Posts: 22474 Location: NJ
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Posted: 07/08/18 6:37 pm ::: |
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With them playing so poorly now, I have to wonder if by the end of the season, they'll get under 1k a game.
_________________ LET'S GO LIBERTY!!!!!!
Twitter: @TBRBWAY
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NYL_WNBA_FAN
Joined: 28 May 2007 Posts: 14097
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Posted: 07/08/18 7:21 pm ::: |
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Watching the Mystics-Storm. In two possessions I saw Bird with a midrange pull-up and Toliver with a 3 with Clark right in her face. And I got to thinking I can’t remember the last time the Libs made a basket that had a really high degree of difficulty. I’m not kidding. I feel like the last time was when Tina hit a bunch of ridiculous fadeaways in the first quarter of the first Vegas game.
Well. I take it back. Piph hit a teardrop plus a foul today. But those are few and far between.
_________________ The poster formerly known as LibWNBAFan.
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LibFan25
Joined: 01 Sep 2012 Posts: 895 Location: NY
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Posted: 07/08/18 8:45 pm ::: |
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<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/vySY9YunYX0" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Katie definitely looks frustrated, she's trying to stay positive but the body language shows.
she needs to change it up like Liambeer did when they were struggling. i mean...what else to lose? try something new Katie maybe put Bec Allen in the lineup and see if this team can wake up
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Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005 Posts: 24356 Location: London
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Posted: 07/08/18 8:58 pm ::: |
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I'm definitely surprised she hasn't made more changes. There's been the very occasional switch, and Piph got promoted into the lineup, but Hartley, Zellous and Vaughn have essentially been starters for every game when they've been available. Try Boyd, try Nurse, try Zahui B, try something. Why keep trotting out the same group for loss after loss when there are so many similarly talented players up and down the bench? No way on earth Laimbeer would've stuck with the same group this long. |
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006 Posts: 63780
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Posted: 07/08/18 9:51 pm ::: |
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She’s pretty good at answering the barrage of questions.
_________________ Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
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zune69
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pilight
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zune69
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