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NYL_WNBA_FAN
Joined: 28 May 2007
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 Posted: 07/08/18 3:00 pm ::: |
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| Bad shooters missing 3s is one thing. Good ones missing open 3s is another. Nurse is down to about 25% from 3 after shooting nearly 45 in college. While you’d expect a drop off, she’s obviously a better shooter than she’s shown. The Libs are 1-11 from 3, with Tina’s being the only make, on generally open 3s from shooters you’d classify at least as decent.
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NYL_WNBA_FAN
Joined: 28 May 2007
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| Posted: 07/08/18 3:03 pm ::: |
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| Michelle89 wrote: |
| ucbart wrote: |
| Michelle89 wrote: |
| Shades wrote: |
| Definitely Cambage's fault on that one. You can't arm-bar your defender's throat. Cambage falls down like a little girl after Zahui takes offense. |
Yeah i agree. Cambage knows how to exaggerate her falls |
Tina gets to get my vote as "her team would be royally !@#$%# without her." |
Dont know why its a reaction to my post but right now they are shit WITH her. So thats a problem |
Def a problem but it’s not her fault. She plays hard. She’s having an excellent season. She’s led substandard teams to 20+ wins like 5 times in her career. What more can she do?
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The poster formerly known as LibWNBAFan.
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NYL_WNBA_FAN
Joined: 28 May 2007
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| Posted: 07/08/18 3:09 pm ::: |
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| I don’t think I’ve ever been this down as a Libs fan. Even in ‘06 when we lost VJ, Crystal and Baranova it was no secret we’d be terrible. Adding Nurse and Boys to a 22-win team shouldn’t result in 5-13 with horrible defense from a team where defense was its staple. Even people who thought the team wasn’t that good couldn’t have envisioned an implosion this great.
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zune69
Joined: 27 May 2010
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| Posted: 07/08/18 3:12 pm ::: |
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Great first half from Skylar...It's great to see the Wings role players stepping up,especially Stevens and Gray....How far Dallas goes in the playoffs will greatly depend on those two players and G.Johnson.
I said the Liberty would miss the playoffs before the season started...So i'm not surprised at how bad they're playing.
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myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008
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| Posted: 07/08/18 3:15 pm ::: |
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| Cambage is just such a woman mountain! Every one else look like midgets next to her.
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toad455
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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Location: NJ
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| Posted: 07/08/18 3:22 pm ::: |
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| Cambage heating up now. This one's over.
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Aladyyn
Joined: 23 Jul 2017
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| Posted: 07/08/18 3:23 pm ::: |
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| Skylar is so good
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Aladyyn
Joined: 23 Jul 2017
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| Posted: 07/08/18 3:29 pm ::: |
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| That was a great outlet by Cambage, damn
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toad455
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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Location: NJ
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| Posted: 07/08/18 3:31 pm ::: |
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| Zahui B trying to keep the Liberty in this.
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Michelle89
Joined: 17 Nov 2010
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| Posted: 07/08/18 3:34 pm ::: |
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| NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote: |
| Michelle89 wrote: |
| ucbart wrote: |
| Michelle89 wrote: |
| Shades wrote: |
| Definitely Cambage's fault on that one. You can't arm-bar your defender's throat. Cambage falls down like a little girl after Zahui takes offense. |
Yeah i agree. Cambage knows how to exaggerate her falls |
Tina gets to get my vote as "her team would be royally !@#$%# without her." |
Dont know why its a reaction to my post but right now they are shit WITH her. So thats a problem |
Def a problem but it’s not her fault. She plays hard. She’s having an excellent season. She’s led substandard teams to 20+ wins like 5 times in her career. What more can she do? |
Nothing. She does everything that she can but they need more talent. Everybody else has a big 2nd scorer or more talent overall.
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ChicagoAnnie
Joined: 04 Sep 2009
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| Posted: 07/08/18 3:37 pm ::: |
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| whooo... when skylar is ON, she is ON.
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ucbart
Joined: 21 Nov 2004
Posts: 2815
Location: New York
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| Posted: 07/08/18 3:45 pm ::: |
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| Michelle89 wrote: |
| ucbart wrote: |
| Michelle89 wrote: |
| Shades wrote: |
| Definitely Cambage's fault on that one. You can't arm-bar your defender's throat. Cambage falls down like a little girl after Zahui takes offense. |
Yeah i agree. Cambage knows how to exaggerate her falls |
Tina gets to get my vote as "her team would be royally !@#$%# without her." |
Dont know why its a reaction to my post but right now they are shit WITH her. So thats a problem |
Sorry, I was reading your post and then I thought of it. Yes, they are shit with her, but not 0-for the season like they would be without her.
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WNBA 09
Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 12528
Location: Dallas , Texas
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| Posted: 07/08/18 3:52 pm ::: |
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| Michelle89 wrote: |
| ucbart wrote: |
| Michelle89 wrote: |
| Shades wrote: |
| Definitely Cambage's fault on that one. You can't arm-bar your defender's throat. Cambage falls down like a little girl after Zahui takes offense. |
Yeah i agree. Cambage knows how to exaggerate her falls |
Tina gets to get my vote as "her team would be royally !@#$%# without her." |
Dont know why its a reaction to my post but right now they are shit WITH her. So thats a problem |
+1 Michelle
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Aladyyn
Joined: 23 Jul 2017
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| Posted: 07/08/18 3:56 pm ::: |
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| The Liberty commentators were struggling to think of comparables to Skylar and really, who is there that is comparable to her? Basically every scoring point guard these guys is a long-range gunner/jump shooter in general while Skylar is a driver to the rim first and foremost. John Wall is the only real current comparable I can think of and even that feels quite off.
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WNBA 09
Joined: 26 Jun 2009
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Location: Dallas , Texas
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| Posted: 07/08/18 3:57 pm ::: |
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| Aladyyn wrote: |
| The Liberty commentators were struggling to think of comparables to Skylar and really, who is there that is comparable to her? Basically every scoring point guard these guys is a long-range gunner/jump shooter in general while Skylar is a driver to the rim first and foremost. John Wall is the only real current comparable I can think of and even that feels quite off. |
I like the Westbrook comparison. Lead guard who can score pass and rebound at a high level. Micheal Westbrook = Skylar Diggins
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Aladyyn
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WNBA 09
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NYSports56
Joined: 03 Jul 2018
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| Posted: 07/08/18 11:07 pm ::: |
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I sure do miss the Good Ol' Days when the Liberty were losing CLOSE games.
The Liberty aren't just missing from the perimeter. They are taking wide open shots, at appropriate times within the framework of the offense. And they're still missing. Everybody but Tina was 0 for (lots) from 3 point range until Prince made one late in the first half.
It's hard to blame Katie's Xs and Os when the play works and the players keep missing.
It was one of Zahui B's best games. She provided needed offense, and also played the best post defense I have ever seen her play against Cambage on several possessions. The technical foul was tough; the Liberty can't afford to give away points. I can understand how she was boiling aleady because of the incident with Cambage on the other side of the court. The way I saw that interaction, Cambage delivered a blow worthy of the flagrant, and then flopped. But c'mon, Amanda; you know the rules and you know refs call technicals!
I have no excuse for Zellous's technical, but enough already! Again, sometimes the officials make bad calls.
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Lib Fan
Joined: 10 May 2005
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Location: New York City
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| Posted: 07/09/18 1:05 am ::: |
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| NYSports56 wrote: |
I sure do miss the Good Ol' Days when the Liberty were losing CLOSE games.
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No in the "Good Ol' Days" The Liberty were winning close games...in MSG
Time for Katie to give the bench more playing time ...
we are a Lottery team !
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NYSports56
Joined: 03 Jul 2018
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| Posted: 07/09/18 1:31 am ::: |
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| Lib Fan wrote: |
| NYSports56 wrote: |
I sure do miss the Good Ol' Days when the Liberty were losing CLOSE games.
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No in the "Good Ol' Days" The Liberty were winning close games...in MSG
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I know. I just thought it would be ironic to refer back to a losing streak as "the Good Ol' Days." Back then, not too many people knew exactly how bad this team would be. I know I didn't.
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NYL_WNBA_FAN
Joined: 28 May 2007
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| Posted: 07/09/18 9:53 am ::: |
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| NYSports56 wrote: |
I sure do miss the Good Ol' Days when the Liberty were losing CLOSE games.
The Liberty aren't just missing from the perimeter. They are taking wide open shots, at appropriate times within the framework of the offense. And they're still missing. Everybody but Tina was 0 for (lots) from 3 point range until Prince made one late in the first half.
It's hard to blame Katie's Xs and Os when the play works and the players keep missing.
It was one of Zahui B's best games. She provided needed offense, and also played the best post defense I have ever seen her play against Cambage on several possessions. The technical foul was tough; the Liberty can't afford to give away points. I can understand how she was boiling aleady because of the incident with Cambage on the other side of the court. The way I saw that interaction, Cambage delivered a blow worthy of the flagrant, and then flopped. But c'mon, Amanda; you know the rules and you know refs call technicals!
I have no excuse for Zellous's technical, but enough already! Again, sometimes the officials make bad calls. |
Zahui’s post D is better than people think it is. It’s stunning how many wide open shots they missed, indicating the problem is definitely in their heads. Meanwhile, it seems teams rarely miss open 3s against us and make a good amount of contested ones.
This is, quite honestly, unchartered territory for a Libs team that actually has enough good players to be doing better. On an Indy broadcast early this year Debbie Antonelli said she thought the Liberty could go to the finals. Other coaches have said (Brian Agler) that the Liberty are better than their record.
Even Nurse, who is a legit 40% candidate from 3, is shooting in the 20s. Say what you want about Piph or Sugar, but Nurse is an excellent shooter. Piph’s career 3 point % is actually pretty good too. It’s a virus that has spread at this point.
Where I do hold Katie accountable is all those crazy lineups early in the year along with lessening Nurse’s minutes earlier in the year (maybe she’s bricking 3s because she’s tight). It’s all now spiraled out of control. Their D is awful too, which falls on the coach.
And nobody could have thought the Libs would be 11th out of 12 in defensive points per possession through 19 games. Nobody. Nobody. Ugh.
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toad455
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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Location: NJ
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| Posted: 07/09/18 10:24 am ::: |
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| I've also wondered how playing in Westchester affects them. Do they all still live in NYC and have to do an hour+ commute for practice and games?
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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| Posted: 07/09/18 10:29 am ::: |
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| toad455 wrote: |
| I've also wondered how playing in Westchester affects them. Do they all still live in NYC and have to do an hour+ commute for practice and games? |
They have always lived in the same area that they practice. It’s much more convenient now.
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Last edited by Shades on 07/09/18 10:41 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Bob Lamm
Joined: 11 Apr 2010
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| Posted: 07/09/18 10:30 am ::: |
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In the winter and as the season began, I was one of the more skeptical Liberty fans posting here. I found some fans' view of the team overly optimistic. But I certainly didn't expect this horrendous first half of the season. Or that the team would be doing so badly defensively.
I believe that (at least temporarily) Katie Smith has wrecked Kia Nurse's confidence. Nurse started wonderfully, then suddenly her minutes were drastically reduced. That could be a jolt for any player, but even more so for a rookie. And it's harder to maintain a good shooting percentage from the outside when playing time is limited and erratic.
I've just looked at the current Liberty stats. Apart from Charles (33.9 minutes per game) and Allen (only 8.1), the other 10 Liberty players are between Zellous (24.2) and Stokes (13.1). This reminds me a little of playing on a junior high school rec league team where the priority was to make sure each kid got a good number of minutes. Sorry, but this is professional basketball. Hard to name teams that have had great success with one star and 10 other players sharing relatively equal minutes. And isn't possible that the confidence of ALL these 10 players (and Allen as well) is affected by somewhat limited, erratic, unpredictable use by their coach?
The weaknesses of the roster overwhelmingly aren't on Katie Smith. But the USE of that roster is completely under her control.
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NYL_WNBA_FAN
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| Posted: 07/09/18 10:47 am ::: |
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By the way, separate from everything, Diggins has shot 53.3% against NY from 3 this year while shooting 31.5% overall. Including the two times she she got fouled yesterday shooting 3s and after awhile you say the Libs are snakebit or teams just smell blood against them. A lot of those shots were contested in transition. Some were also because Hartley on D scares nobody. But we’ve seen a lot of crazy 3 point outbursts against us this year. Contested, uncontested. Great shooters, so-so ones. In transition. Tough shots. Open ones. It feels like it doesn’t matter. Plus even the missed threes often result in offensive rebounds which doesn’t help.
To Bob’s point I think I was the fan who picked them highest (5th) but even I recognized that with the crazy talent in the league this year, their fortunes were unpredictable. Sadly, the Libs have not capitalized on the league’s parity, the parity being expected.
And yeah. The magnitude of this implosion. Couldn’t have been expected. It feels like even when we play good D it isn’t enough. Dallas made tough shots yesterday. It stlll resulted in 97 points. Plus, Diggins’ hot shooting helped set up even more efficiency in her penetrations than usual. Katie clearly adjusted the way NY defended her throughout the course of the game. They were good adjustments in my opinion. Getting out on her earlier. Some high pick and roll hedges. Still didn’t help. I’m just shaking my head at this point. Even when stuff is implemented and executed properly the end result just isn’t there.
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