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pilight



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PostPosted: 06/29/18 8:51 am    ::: What's Seattle banning now? Reply Reply with quote

http://www.nwnews.com/index.php/news-features/news-2/16392-seattle-s-plastic-straws-utensils-ban-launches-july-1

Starting July 1, petroleum-based plastic straws, utensils, and cocktail picks will be banned at all Seattle businesses that sell food or drinks.



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Luuuc



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PostPosted: 06/29/18 8:57 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bravo, Seattle.
There's a lot of fuss down here about the banning of single-use plastic bags. Hopefully straws, picks, etc. are not far behind. It's shameful how much of it ends up in the oceans.



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pilight



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PostPosted: 06/29/18 9:08 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Luuuc wrote:
Bravo, Seattle.
There's a lot of fuss down here about the banning of single-use plastic bags. Hopefully straws, picks, etc. are not far behind. It's shameful how much of it ends up in the oceans.


The problem being that even the people who pushed for this ban admit it will have zero impact on the environment. Biodegradable straws are harder to ship and store because they have to be insulated and they go bad after a few months. All this does it hurt small businesses to appease environmental wackos.



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Luuuc



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PostPosted: 06/29/18 9:15 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
Luuuc wrote:
Bravo, Seattle.
There's a lot of fuss down here about the banning of single-use plastic bags. Hopefully straws, picks, etc. are not far behind. It's shameful how much of it ends up in the oceans.


The problem being that even the people who pushed for this ban admit it will have zero impact on the environment. Biodegradable straws are harder to ship and store because they have to be insulated and they go bad after a few months. All this does it hurt small businesses to appease environmental wackos.

Out of curiosity, how are biodegradable straws not better for the environment?
And if the current options aren't great, why wouldn't better ones be developed now that there is incentive to do so? Humans have got a pretty good track record of innovation/adaptation once there is a need.



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toad455



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PostPosted: 06/29/18 10:51 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Plastic straws, bottles and bags are being banned in several countries. They don't get reused or recycled like they should.



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FrozenLVFan



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PostPosted: 06/29/18 11:14 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Luuuc wrote:
Out of curiosity, how are biodegradable straws not better for the environment? And if the current options aren't great, why wouldn't better ones be developed now that there is incentive to do so? Humans have got a pretty good track record of innovation/adaptation once there is a need.


Biodegradable straws have to end up in a compost stream to be eco-friendly. Seattle appears to have a widespread composting program, but a lot of places don't. My bet is that most bio-degradable straws will be thrown in the trash, into the same non-biodegradable plastic Hefty bag with everything else, then go to a landfill or incinerator.

toad455 wrote:
Plastic straws, bottles and bags are being banned in several countries. They don't get reused or recycled like they should.


The recycling issue is going to get worse before it gets better. My town's recycling facility takes less and less stuff every year. The company that takes our facility's output has to deal with a diminishing Asian, i.e. Chinese, market for recyclable goods. Until it becomes financially beneficial for us to recycle our own stuff, we're going to be left with a lot of trash.


PUmatty



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PostPosted: 06/29/18 11:57 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Just don't use straws.

How is this hard?


pilight



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PostPosted: 06/29/18 12:04 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

PUmatty wrote:
Just don't use straws.

How is this hard?


Sure, just because this glass has been used by hundreds of unknown people, handled by a server who only washes her hands when it's legally required, stored in a place chosen for convenience over hygiene, and washed with the cheapest soap available in a machine built mostly for speed, that doesn't mean it's unsafe to put your mouth on it.



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PUmatty



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PostPosted: 06/29/18 12:18 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
PUmatty wrote:
Just don't use straws.

How is this hard?


Sure, just because this glass has been used by hundreds of unknown people, handled by a server who only washes her hands when it's legally required, stored in a place chosen for convenience over hygiene, and washed with the cheapest soap available in a machine built mostly for speed, that doesn't mean it's unsafe to put your mouth on it.


Just like the silverware. Just like the dishes. Just like the materials used to make your food.

If you are that worried about germs, you probably shouldn't be eating in restaurants.


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PostPosted: 06/29/18 12:33 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

PUmatty wrote:
Just don't use straws.

How is this hard?


The temp is supposed to be in the mid-90's here for the next week, and I plan on sucking down a lot of pina coladas and other frosty libations. With a straw. Just shoot me.


Howee



Joined: 27 Nov 2009
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PostPosted: 06/29/18 1:30 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

FrozenLVFan wrote:
PUmatty wrote:
Just don't use straws.

How is this hard?


The temp is supposed to be in the mid-90's here for the next week, and I plan on sucking down a lot of pina coladas and other frosty libations. With a straw. Just shoot me.


Hey. We all gotta die sometime. Frosty pina coladas are as good a way to go as any, straws or not. Hold the bullets.



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jammerbirdi



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PostPosted: 06/29/18 1:57 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

PUmatty wrote:
pilight wrote:
PUmatty wrote:
Just don't use straws.

How is this hard?


Sure, just because this glass has been used by hundreds of unknown people, handled by a server who only washes her hands when it's legally required, stored in a place chosen for convenience over hygiene, and washed with the cheapest soap available in a machine built mostly for speed, that doesn't mean it's unsafe to put your mouth on it.


Just like the silverware. Just like the dishes. Just like the materials used to make your food.

If you are that worried about germs, you probably shouldn't be eating in restaurants.


Who says he eats in restaurants? Wink



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justintyme



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PostPosted: 06/29/18 5:45 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

FrozenLVFan wrote:
PUmatty wrote:
Just don't use straws.

How is this hard?


The temp is supposed to be in the mid-90's here for the next week, and I plan on sucking down a lot of pina coladas and other frosty libations. With a straw. Just shoot me.

Pro-tip from a former bartender: skip the straw and either salt or sugar the rim of your pina colada glass like you would a frozen margarita. Personally, I go for salt as it really makes the fruit flavors pop.



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tfan



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PostPosted: 06/30/18 11:24 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Luuuc wrote:
Bravo, Seattle.
There's a lot of fuss down here about the banning of single-use plastic bags. Hopefully straws, picks, etc. are not far behind. It's shameful how much of it ends up in the oceans.


True.

But a recent article points out how most of it gets there: 90% of the plastic in the ocean comes from 10 rivers in populated countries with "a less than ideal waste management process". That is, the ocean is being used by these countries in place of landfills. Which means that the developed countries are not doing most of it due to their thorough use of landfills, and can only stop ocean plastic pollution a limited amount from internal actions.


Luuuc



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PostPosted: 06/30/18 11:39 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:
Luuuc wrote:
Bravo, Seattle.
There's a lot of fuss down here about the banning of single-use plastic bags. Hopefully straws, picks, etc. are not far behind. It's shameful how much of it ends up in the oceans.


True.

But a recent article points out how most of it gets there: 90% of the plastic in the ocean comes from 10 rivers in populated countries with "a less than ideal waste management process". That is, the ocean is being used by these countries in place of landfills. Which means that the developed countries are not doing most of it due to their thorough use of landfills, and can only stop ocean plastic pollution a limited amount from internal actions.


There are some parallels to greenhouse emissions with that. It's true, but I just think places that are able to, should be taking the lead on it rather than pointing elsewhere and saying "well those people are worse than us so we'll just do nothing". It's disturbing how much plastic is already in the food chain, and plastic hasn't even been around for that many years. The future is scary on the current course.
Plastic in landfill is much better than plastic in the oceans but it's still not really desirable or sustainable. Recycling takes such minimal effort, it bothers me how many people are unwilling to take even easy steps towards reducing waste. Start forcing people to change their behaviours for the better and I think it will become natural pretty quickly. You can bet that plenty of people right now are out there trying to invent the best "green" drinking straw, because the potential payoff is big. There can be a lot of value in being the first to change.



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tfan



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PostPosted: 07/02/18 6:39 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Luuuc wrote:

There are some parallels to greenhouse emissions with that. It's true, but I just think places that are able to, should be taking the lead on it rather than pointing elsewhere and saying "well those people are worse than us so we'll just do nothing".


We can take the lead with regard to limiting plastic use, particularly for plastic isn't recyclable (or work to make all of it is), but we should also point elsewhere and say "you gotta stop using the ocean as a garbage dump". But I think that the developed world is reluctant in this day and age to lecture the developing world and/or they want to cut them some slack.

Quote:

It's disturbing how much plastic is already in the food chain, and plastic hasn't even been around for that many years. The future is scary on the current course.


I don't eat seafood, but I used to get a kick out of buying premium potato chips and other items that would promote that they use sea salt (as opposed to salt from mines in the US). Not any more, because I have read they are finding small plastic particles in sea salt.

Quote:

Plastic in landfill is much better than plastic in the oceans but it's still not really desirable or sustainable. Recycling takes such minimal effort, it bothers me how many people are unwilling to take even easy steps towards reducing waste. Start forcing people to change their behaviours for the better and I think it will become natural pretty quickly. You can bet that plenty of people right now are out there trying to invent the best "green" drinking straw, because the potential payoff is big. There can be a lot of value in being the first to change.


A lot of people do have to be forced. I worked at a company where they wanted people to stop throwing their food waste in their trash cans and use special trash cans in the break rooms and by exits, for it, as they were going to start recycling as much as they could (particularly white printer/copier paper). But a lot of people wouldn't do it, first claiming lack of knowledge of a well publicized policy, and then if you mentioned it again they would get irritated and say they were gonna use their trash can as they saw fit. I saw a memo once congratulating those that followed the policy, but mentioning that many still didn't. If I remember right, they felt that 66% did and 33% didn't. But they didn't hammer people to do it right (I regret not writing to them and pointing out that their management decree was being ignored by large amounts of well compensated educated people - did they want a precedent set for defying management). When stuff sent to the recycler was rejected for contamination, upper management would get on the case of the janitorial staff, not the rank and file managers. I also saw break rooms that had a trash can for garbage and a trash can for empty soda bottles/cans. Some people would put cans in the garbage and garbage with the cans. I have talked to people who get angry about recycling in the same way they get angry about other environmental causes, for whatever reason.


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PostPosted: 07/02/18 7:01 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

justintyme wrote:
FrozenLVFan wrote:
PUmatty wrote:
Just don't use straws.

How is this hard?


The temp is supposed to be in the mid-90's here for the next week, and I plan on sucking down a lot of pina coladas and other frosty libations. With a straw. Just shoot me.

Pro-tip from a former bartender: skip the straw and either salt or sugar the rim of your pina colada glass like you would a frozen margarita. Personally, I go for salt as it really makes the fruit flavors pop.


I'm not salting/sugaring anything. It was 100 degrees here yesterday, we had massive amounts of guests (we're on a lake), and I spent all afternoon pouring pitcherfuls of frozen drinks into big plastic cups. And yes, we used plastic straws. House rule is "One cup/straw per person per day." You lose it, you're SOL for the rest of the day. NMP. I just washed 50+ plastic cups.

I really want someone to take on a crusade against packing peanuts and junk mail, both of which are universally hated by consumers, unnecessary, not recycled appropriately, and not eco-friendly.


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PostPosted: 07/02/18 3:50 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

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