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WNBA 09



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PostPosted: 06/06/18 10:58 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
tfan wrote:
toad455 wrote:
They really should allow 6 games at MSG. The two kids days, Pride day, a game vs. the Mystics to please Delle Donne's fans, and a game vs. LA and someone else at the end of the season. Those 6 should draw 10k each or more. The rest can be played at WCC.


Delle Donne draws a large amount of people from Delaware to MSG?


yes. whether when she was with the Sky or Mystics, they get a solid 500+ people to come up. The entire section behind the visitors bench is filled with her fans.


Is NY Closer to Delaware than DC ? I remember she had a huge following her first year or two but haven't heard of these such crowds making the trip since she's been in DC.



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LibFan25



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PostPosted: 06/09/18 8:11 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

i want Boyd back in the starting lineup, Hartley is a good offense player but her defense has been bad as hell of late, it seem like Jaz Thomas could drive on her anytime she wanted too. very frustrating watching up close

another note, we need Stokes back badly. we got killed on the boards last game with that annoying small lineup Katie puts out there

other then that i think we be fine if Katie can a get better in end game situations maybe we can win a few....ya know? lol cuz all the games have been close, the potential to be good this year is there for the taking...


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PostPosted: 06/10/18 8:25 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Division of minutes today against Indiana (rounded to nearest minute), with Stokes and Prince out:

Charles 34, Vaughn 24, Zahui B. 18

Nurse 28, Hartley 28, Zellous 21, Coleman 19, Rodgers 15, Boyd 12, Allen zero

Here are the season averages through seven games (rounded to the nearest minute):

Charles 35, Stokes 19, Vaughn 17, Zahui B. 12

Nurse 29, Hartley 28, Zellous 25, Coleman 25, Rodgers 15, Allen 12, Boyd 9, Prince zero

If Stokes and Prince can return and everyone can somehow stay healthy for a while, it'll be very interesting to see how minutes are distributed.



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PostPosted: 06/12/18 2:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

It's full speed ahead for Liberty coach Katie Smith

http://www.espn.com/wnba/story/_/id/23769358/full-speed-ahead-new-york-liberty-coach-katie-smith



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toad455



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PostPosted: 06/12/18 3:17 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Prince and Stokes activated for Wednesday's game. Liberty at full strength.

https://twitter.com/Pat_Ralph/status/1006626593706512386?s=19



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PostPosted: 06/12/18 3:44 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
Prince and Stokes activated for Wednesday's game. Liberty at full strength.

https://twitter.com/Pat_Ralph/status/1006626593706512386?s=19


Very good news. Perhaps they will play limited minutes in their first game back. But soon enough, as I addressed above, it's going to be very interesting to see how Katie Smith uses these 12 players. Who plays, how much, when during the game, and at what positions.



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NYL_WNBA_FAN



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PostPosted: 06/12/18 5:10 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

WNBA Fans’ Nation, a seemingly reliable site on Facebook run by someone who knows his/her stuff, reports that Piph is a go tomorrow night and that Stokes is expected to play. Hopefully the info is accurate. Based on what I’ve seen this person write, I believe it probably is.



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NYL_WNBA_FAN



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PostPosted: 06/12/18 5:32 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

And whether Piph plays tomorrow night or not it begs one question. Sooner or later she’s coming back. How are we going to find minutes for all these guards? Say what you want about them individually but Hartley, Piph, Z, Sugar and Nurse are all 20+ minute players. They’re all mainly 2 guards, some of whom can play other positions. Coleman is playing well too. If games were 60 minutes instead of 40 we’d be set. And with post still being a need, is there an available trade for a post? They’re hard to obtain though.

Still, having all these solid players on the perimeter without enough minutes for them doesn’t make sense when we have a clear pressing need at another position.



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Last edited by NYL_WNBA_FAN on 06/12/18 5:35 pm; edited 2 times in total
toad455



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PostPosted: 06/12/18 5:33 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Yeah, he/she is typically accurate. The best source on Facebook now. He/she also reads these boards, so....



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PostPosted: 06/12/18 6:00 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:
And whether Piph plays tomorrow night or not it begs one question. Sooner or later she’s coming back. How are we going to find minutes for all these guards? Say what you want about them individually but Hartley, Piph, Z, Sugar and Nurse are all 20+ minute players. They’re all mainly 2 guards, some of whom can play other positions. Coleman is playing well too. If games were 60 minutes instead of 40 we’d be set. And with post still being a need, is there an available trade for a post? They’re hard to obtain though.

Still, having all these solid players on the perimeter without enough minutes for them doesn’t make sense when we have a clear pressing need at another position.


All true, as you and many others said through the winter and the preseason. I'm guessing that a trade for a post player who will be genuinely helpful will be hard to make. For me, if everyone is healthy then Rebecca Allen looks like the most expendable player on the roster. (Not that I mean to dump on her.) Zellous, Coleman, and Nurse can all play at 3. Is there any financial issue in releasing Allen and signing a post player? Is there anyone out there that would help?



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mercfan3



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PostPosted: 06/12/18 6:42 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bob Lamm wrote:
NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:
And whether Piph plays tomorrow night or not it begs one question. Sooner or later she’s coming back. How are we going to find minutes for all these guards? Say what you want about them individually but Hartley, Piph, Z, Sugar and Nurse are all 20+ minute players. They’re all mainly 2 guards, some of whom can play other positions. Coleman is playing well too. If games were 60 minutes instead of 40 we’d be set. And with post still being a need, is there an available trade for a post? They’re hard to obtain though.

Still, having all these solid players on the perimeter without enough minutes for them doesn’t make sense when we have a clear pressing need at another position.


All true, as you and many others said through the winter and the preseason. I'm guessing that a trade for a post player who will be genuinely helpful will be hard to make. For me, if everyone is healthy then Rebecca Allen looks like the most expendable player on the roster. (Not that I mean to dump on her.) Zellous, Coleman, and Nurse can all play at 3. Is there any financial issue in releasing Allen and signing a post player? Is there anyone out there that would help?


We will give you Talbot and Little for Hartley and Zahui. Twisted Evil



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NYL_WNBA_FAN



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PostPosted: 06/12/18 7:16 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bob Lamm wrote:
NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:
And whether Piph plays tomorrow night or not it begs one question. Sooner or later she’s coming back. How are we going to find minutes for all these guards? Say what you want about them individually but Hartley, Piph, Z, Sugar and Nurse are all 20+ minute players. They’re all mainly 2 guards, some of whom can play other positions. Coleman is playing well too. If games were 60 minutes instead of 40 we’d be set. And with post still being a need, is there an available trade for a post? They’re hard to obtain though.

Still, having all these solid players on the perimeter without enough minutes for them doesn’t make sense when we have a clear pressing need at another position.


All true, as you and many others said through the winter and the preseason. I'm guessing that a trade for a post player who will be genuinely helpful will be hard to make. For me, if everyone is healthy then Rebecca Allen looks like the most expendable player on the roster. (Not that I mean to dump on her.) Zellous, Coleman, and Nurse can all play at 3. Is there any financial issue in releasing Allen and signing a post player? Is there anyone out there that would help?


Not sure about the financial aspect but I’m skeptical that signing a post player is potentially helpful, given the undersized nature of the posts who have been discussed. As far as trading, it remains to be seen if anyone is even available. Tall/long/somewhat athletic posts are a valuable commodity. Very difficult to acquire without giving up a lot.



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PostPosted: 06/12/18 8:39 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bob Lamm wrote:
Is there any financial issue in releasing Allen and signing a post player?

Nope, surely no way they gave her any guaranteed money, so should be a straight cut for nothing.



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PostPosted: 06/12/18 10:59 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Las Vegas is starting rookies Wilson and Park, which means veterans Hamby, Bone, and Swords are coming off the bench with Harrison waiting in the wings. No way Bill needs six post players. Meanwhile, LVA is last in the league in 3-point shooting -- both makes and percentage. We know Bill loves Sugar's defense, so if she has another good game shooting 3's tomorrow and raises her value... Wink



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PostPosted: 06/13/18 12:28 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

My 3 plans for a 5th post

Prince for IMS (This also allows Atl to waive one of Lucas or Dietrick and bring in a new player maybe S. Thomas, Burdick, Larkins if they want more expeience or someone else).

Rodgers (or Hartley) and 2nd round pick for Harrison (LV gets a strong defensive guard who knows Laimbeer's system and a mid 2nd round pick in a good draft for a player who Bill has yet to work with).

Waive R. Allen sign vet Cannon or Hamson or younger post with Liberty experience Bulgak or Burdick (I realize 3 of them are on the small side but I think they all could jump ahead of Vaughn on the depth chart and will bring some fire). (With Prince, Boyd and Rodgers return Nurse will get most of her minutes at the 3 and we have Zellous as another option behind Coleman so there just aren't any minutes for R. Allen unless we keep playing her or Coleman some as a stretch 4 in the smaller line up).

Realistic plan cross fingers for Stokes to come back strong, draft a post next year, convince Nayo to return.


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PostPosted: 06/13/18 8:20 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

J-Spoon the Prince for IMS deal would be more than fair the Atlanta, but I'm just not a Prince fan


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PostPosted: 06/13/18 8:33 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I would just be in favor of waiving Allen and bringing in Larkins. Would prefer a Young post to develop, but outside of Bulgak and Kaylee Jensen our options are limited. Or a two player trade for a post and we sign Samuelson. Wings are short on players, maybe Rodgers and R. Allen for Powers? I doubt they'd trade Thornton. Or Gulich is sitting on the Mercury's bench, maybe Prince and Allen for Gulich? And we sign Samuelson.

PG: Hartley/Boyd
SG: Zellous/Nurse/Rodgers
SF: Coleman/Samuelson
PF: Charles/Zahui B
C: Stokes/Gulich/Vaughn



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PostPosted: 06/13/18 10:34 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

1) Rebecca Allen has virtually no trade value. Maybe you can swap her for another team's deep bench player where the specific needs of both teams match. Otherwise, using Allen as a throw-in to a larger deal won't add much since there are any number of unemployed players who have roughly the same level of talent and accomplishments.

2) Prince had a pretty decent 2017 season: 12 ppg and her defense was much improved after the All-Star break. Piph is also the best player on the team at creating off the dribble. She is not someone you casually trade away.

3) I like Harrison, but people need to remember she has a history of health issues -- missing 10 games with an ankle injury as a sophomore, missing 5 games with a sprained knee as a senior before ultimately tearing her ACL later in the year, and now she has some mystery ailment. I'd still be willing to trade for Harrison, but let's not go crazy and overpay. She has that injury-prone look.

4) If you go out and sign someone with limited or diminished skill off the streets, the primary objective should be size and vertical ability. We already have enough mediocre play from 6-3/6-2 post players (listed height notwithstanding). Part of what's killing us is all the 6-6/6-8 centers who are making our post players look like children. So, I would go for someone like Hamson. Not a huge fan, but she appears to be a legit 6-7 and her small sample size stats (mostly the case with marginal players) for rebounding and shot-blocking range from decent to great. For what it's worth, Hamson is coming off a big year in Australia (1st in blocks, 2nd in rebounds). Not necessarily meaningful, but it should be noted that not every American who goes there automatically puts up big numbers (e.g., Hamblin and Cloud). Also, Hamson is probably the best athlete of the bunch. We have video evidence that she can easily dunk, and she was an All-American volleyball player as well as a basketball star.

5) I'd be interested in IMS or Coates, who both look available. However, I don't see a match. Neither Atlanta nor Chicago needs perimeter players. That's why I suggested LVA. They have a desperate need for 3-Pt shooting, and on top of that Laimbeer knows the Liberty roster well. He would see more value in our players than anyone else because he has an idea of how they'd fit into his systems.



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PostPosted: 06/13/18 6:30 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

IMS for AZB?


toad455



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PostPosted: 06/13/18 6:38 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Randy wrote:
IMS for AZB?


No. But I'd do IMS for Vaughn.



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PostPosted: 06/13/18 6:44 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I think we are at an impasse.


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PostPosted: 06/13/18 8:05 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Randy wrote:
IMS for AZB?


Pretty sure they'd rather have the 2019 Aces second round pick for Zahui, especially now that the fans have pulled up the stakes.



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PostPosted: 06/13/18 8:09 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NVM


willtalk



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PostPosted: 06/13/18 10:51 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
I would just be in favor of waiving Allen and bringing in Larkins. Would prefer a Young post to develop, but outside of Bulgak and Kaylee Jensen our options are limited. Or a two player trade for a post and we sign Samuelson. Wings are short on players, maybe Rodgers and R. Allen for Powers? I doubt they'd trade Thornton. Or Gulich is sitting on the Mercury's bench, maybe Prince and Allen for Gulich? And we sign Samuelson.

PG: Hartley/Boyd
SG: Zellous/Nurse/Rodgers
SF: Coleman/Samuelson
PF: Charles/Zahui B
C: Stokes/Gulich/Vaughn
I doubt they trade Gulich. She is a rookie and Griner is playing a lot of min. They need her in case Griner has an injury. They basically can just sit her on the bench while getting few minutes because it works for them. She is just insurance, but an insurance that they need.


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PostPosted: 06/14/18 1:14 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

OK I am out of trade ideas

What I will say is

we have too many perimeter players

and not enough posts

I would pretty much be willing to trade any of our perimeter players (except for Nurse as she is our rookie with upside) for an OK post or post with potential.

I agree that we need more size but I would still be OK with a different or additional 6" 2-4" player who plays with energy, or simply grabs some boards and can make a couple of shots consistently. (I'm really not excited about only having Vaughn and Zahui B as the 3rd and 4th post. Stokes isn't doing well at the moment but I at least think she has and understands her role. Zahui B and Vaughn look like they are still trying to find a spot, but they also look nervous to try and step up. Vaughn tonight hit some nice mid-range shots, if she was doing that every game 10-15 minutes a night I would be all for it, she also look small out there for her position so pretty much needs to have an impact on offense or she is a liability. Zahui looks like she just can't do what worked for her in college or what works for her over-seas in the W, and possibly suffers from not being given/earning enough minutes to find her momentum.)

The thing about our team that is making me crazy right now is everyone outside of Charles is inconsistent. And now that we have more options It feels like instead of developing roles we're just going to keep bouncing people in and out until something (or nothing works).

Even with Nurse's struggles this game I felt like she was trying to give energy, and had some sense of what she needs to do to contribute. I get that feeling from Zellous as well, even if she got ejected tonight, and I see that to a lesser extent from Coleman.

I guess Boyd and Rodgers need a little bit more time until I give up, Boyd looks great when she is pushing the tempo, and driving past her defender but it doesn't seem to be having the impact on the actual game. Rodgers basically need to make all her shots because she has decided when she is in she is supposed to be taking all the shots when it comes to her I think she sees her role as instant offense off the bench, and we need the offense, but if her shot is not falling she still plays like she's McCoughtry or Deshields but she's hasn't been that player since college. I kind of think Sugar needs to start and focus more on defense, passing and playing as a shooter as part of the system off of Charles' inside game but she would have to take Zellous or Coleman's spot in the starting line up and I don't think the coach has that much faith in her. I feel like we have a perimeter full of support players but no perimeter star to compliment Charles in the post and doing by committee isn't going to cut it, but it what we have to do.

Oh well I will think something different tomorrow. It is too early to tank but some size or a guard like Durr or Ogunbowale who is actually going to score 10-15 ppg could really help.


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PostPosted: 06/14/18 1:33 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Also yes I would waive R. Allen and give Hamson a shot

Hartley/Boyd
Zellous/Rodgers/Prince
Coleman/Nurse
Charles/Zahui B
Stokes/Hamson/Vaughn

(I would also like to see one of Rodgers, Boyd, Prince or Nurse step up to the point where they knock one of the starters off the front line, or become that bench player who gets more minutes than the starter but ATM I feel much more confident in Hartley, Zellous and shocked to say Coleman. Even with the subtraction of R. Allen it still feels like their are too many players competing for the 120 minutes on the perimeter but no one is stepping up and demanding those minutes through their play. OK I'm being a little impatient with the players just back from injury).


WNBA 09



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PostPosted: 06/14/18 10:21 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

J-Spoon wrote:
Also yes I would waive R. Allen and give Hamson a shot

Hartley/Boyd
Zellous/Rodgers/Prince
Coleman/Nurse
Charles/Zahui B
Stokes/Hamson/Vaughn

(I would also like to see one of Rodgers, Boyd, Prince or Nurse step up to the point where they knock one of the starters off the front line, or become that bench player who gets more minutes than the starter but ATM I feel much more confident in Hartley, Zellous and shocked to say Coleman. Even with the subtraction of R. Allen it still feels like their are too many players competing for the 120 minutes on the perimeter but no one is stepping up and demanding those minutes through their play. OK I'm being a little impatient with the players just back from injury).


Ouchhh Shocked



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PostPosted: 06/14/18 1:47 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

So, I did a little research. On the left are some team statistics compared to last year. On the right is a summary of key statistics for each game, as well as a quick and dirty analysis of why the Liberty won or lost.



Certain trends are emerging. First of all, the team is shooting a lot more 3's without an increase in accuracy. Actually, the rate has gone down although their rank hasn't. Why are they shooting almost seven more 3s per game? Is it planned? Has Katie Smith taken an analytical approach and decided to be the Quentin Hillsman of the WNBA? Is it because she has given the players more freedom and this is what they've decided to do with it? When I drill down, I see that Charles and Zahui combined have gone from 2.3 3PA to 5.9 3PA, so that's 3.6 more from the post. This isn't justified because they're shooting 21.3%. The other big factor for the increase in 3PA is probably personnel related. They replaced NRE and L. Allen who combined for 0-17 for all of 2017 with Coleman and Nurse who are already 23-65 35.4% in eight games. The impact is a little overstated because Coleman/Nurse have also been filling in for the missing Rodgers/Prince combination who put up 9.2 3PA (34.2% made) in 2017. So, it looks like the increase in shooting 3s is partly players' choice and partly personnel change. Either way, if you're only 8th in accuracy, then you shouldn't be first in attempts.

Interestingly, in the last two games, shooting a lot of 3s probably helped New York win against Indiana, but helped them lose against LVA. Just as importantly, shooting a lot of 3s is probably decreasing their FT attempts. NY is currently last in the league at getting to the line. That certainly contributed to last night's loss, but it also hurt them in a loss to Phoenix. Their overall numbers would be much worse if not for an outlier performance of 30-32 in the first Indiana game.

The other two major changes from last season -- really the last five seasons -- is the drop-off in both rebounding and opponent's field goal percentage. The decrease in rebounding is probably partly due to the use of the small line-up, as well as Stokes being missing for a number of games. It's also likely that the increase in 3Pt shots has impacted their offensive rebounding. O-boards have gone down from 10.7 to 9.1, but the drop has been much worse in certain games. On the flip side, offensive rebounds are up for their opponents, and overall the differential has dropped from +3.2 in 2017 to +0.6 in 2018. The defensive rebounding differential has dropped even more drastically, going from +3.7 to -1.4.

As far as the defensive field goal percentage goes, I thought we would see an increase in 2nd chance points because of offensive rebounds given up. The number is actually slightly down, although it was certainly a problem against CT. I'm not exactly sure why the defensive FG% is worse. Some of it may be general ineffectiveness resulting from the small line-up. Giving up more rebounds can also lead to the opponent getting easier baskets, although the fastbreak points differential isn't that large. Maybe there's been a change to the defensive approach that is not obvious in the stats.

To sum it up, New York is shooting more 3s and fewer free throws on offense. They are less effective at preventing made shots on defense, and they are worse in rebounding on both sides of the ball. Again, how much of this is the result of scheme changes versus early season chemistry issues combined with injuries is hard to say. I have no idea what Katie Smith is trying to do. The only thing we've heard is that there will be more movement and freedom on offense this year, and then the usual comments about running more. I don't really notice more movement, and the freedom seems to be resulting in a lot of one-on-one dribbling which eventually leads to a 3Pt shot. As far as running goes, it's amusing since they've gone from 11th in fastbreak points to 12th. If the team is running, it's not resulting in points.



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You must barter your life to make sure you are living
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PostPosted: 06/14/18 4:58 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Thanks for this research and valuable analysis.



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PostPosted: 06/14/18 5:45 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Great stuff ... one thing coaches can do is emphasize. Laimbeer always emphasized physicality, which translates directly to rebounds and usually to free-throw attempts. It also helps out defensively, assuming the refs let some things go.

It doesn't appear Smith is emphasizing the same things, or at least emphasizing them effectively. (Note that Charles had one rebound last game.)

Coaches can't control talent level, and I don't think New York is in the top half of the league in that regard, but it does seem they should be playing better.



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PostPosted: 06/14/18 6:21 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I think under Laimbeer the Liberty usually played above their talent level. Now they may be playing below it, but injuries, late arrivals and the unbalanced roster may be the main cause. Takes time to learn how to be a head coach just like any other job as well.


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PostPosted: 06/14/18 8:04 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Randy wrote:
I think under Laimbeer the Liberty usually played above their talent level. Now they may be playing below it, but injuries, late arrivals and the unbalanced roster may be the main cause. Takes time to learn how to be a head coach just like any other job as well.

True, but aren't most teams suffering late arrivals and injuries? And isn't the make-up of this year's team similar to past years (i.e., there has been little player turnover => -Nayo, -Allen +Nurse, +Coleman +Boyd)?


Randy



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PostPosted: 06/14/18 8:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Not all teams are afflicted with the same problems, but certainly some were. Also, as I recall the Liberty didn't start out all that great last year, but went on a late season run with a 10 game win streak. So a lot of the over performance so to speak happened in the last weeks of the year.


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PostPosted: 06/14/18 9:50 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:
So, I did a little research. On the left are some team statistics compared to last year. On the right is a summary of key statistics for each game, as well as a quick and dirty analysis of why the Liberty won or lost.



Certain trends are emerging. First of all, the team is shooting a lot more 3's without an increase in accuracy. Actually, the rate has gone down although their rank hasn't. Why are they shooting almost seven more 3s per game? Is it planned? Has Katie Smith taken an analytical approach and decided to be the Quentin Hillsman of the WNBA? Is it because she has given the players more freedom and this is what they've decided to do with it? When I drill down, I see that Charles and Zahui combined have gone from 2.3 3PA to 5.9 3PA, so that's 3.6 more from the post. This isn't justified because they're shooting 21.3%. The other big factor for the increase in 3PA is probably personnel related. They replaced NRE and L. Allen who combined for 0-17 for all of 2017 with Coleman and Nurse who are already 23-65 35.4% in eight games. The impact is a little overstated because Coleman/Nurse have also been filling in for the missing Rodgers/Prince combination who put up 9.2 3PA (34.2% made) in 2017. So, it looks like the increase in shooting 3s is partly players' choice and partly personnel change. Either way, if you're only 8th in accuracy, then you shouldn't be first in attempts.

Interestingly, in the last two games, shooting a lot of 3s probably helped New York win against Indiana, but helped them lose against LVA. Just as importantly, shooting a lot of 3s is probably decreasing their FT attempts. NY is currently last in the league at getting to the line. That certainly contributed to last night's loss, but it also hurt them in a loss to Phoenix. Their overall numbers would be much worse if not for an outlier performance of 30-32 in the first Indiana game.

The other two major changes from last season -- really the last five seasons -- is the drop-off in both rebounding and opponent's field goal percentage. The decrease in rebounding is probably partly due to the use of the small line-up, as well as Stokes being missing for a number of games. It's also likely that the increase in 3Pt shots has impacted their offensive rebounding. O-boards have gone down from 10.7 to 9.1, but the drop has been much worse in certain games. On the flip side, offensive rebounds are up for their opponents, and overall the differential has dropped from +3.2 in 2017 to +0.6 in 2018. The defensive rebounding differential has dropped even more drastically, going from +3.7 to -1.4.

As far as the defensive field goal percentage goes, I thought we would see an increase in 2nd chance points because of offensive rebounds given up. The number is actually slightly down, although it was certainly a problem against CT. I'm not exactly sure why the defensive FG% is worse. Some of it may be general ineffectiveness resulting from the small line-up. Giving up more rebounds can also lead to the opponent getting easier baskets, although the fastbreak points differential isn't that large. Maybe there's been a change to the defensive approach that is not obvious in the stats.

To sum it up, New York is shooting more 3s and fewer free throws on offense. They are less effective at preventing made shots on defense, and they are worse in rebounding on both sides of the ball. Again, how much of this is the result of scheme changes versus early season chemistry issues combined with injuries is hard to say. I have no idea what Katie Smith is trying to do. The only thing we've heard is that there will be more movement and freedom on offense this year, and then the usual comments about running more. I don't really notice more movement, and the freedom seems to be resulting in a lot of one-on-one dribbling which eventually leads to a 3Pt shot. As far as running goes, it's amusing since they've gone from 11th in fastbreak points to 12th. If the team is running, it's not resulting in points.


Tremendous analysis. Nice respite for me personally in two ways...first off because it's completely accurate and second because it gets away from the raw emotion of losing so badly and gets into the why.

A few things to add on my part. The lack of fastbreak points I think is directly attributed to Hartley's below average ball-handling and court vision for a point guard. She's kind of fast but it's negated by that ridiculously high handle and the fact that she never looks upcourt for streaking players who might get easy layups. Another thing that I think is directly related to the lack of a true point guard is that I don't feel the 3-point shooters are consistently getting the ball in the right places at the right times. That can be traced to the ball still getting stuck on one side of the floor too often without ball movement to the opposite side. It's hard to rely on an offense involving players breaking down the defense when there's a lack of consistency in that area from the PG spot. I'll get to defense in a minute but I think you could get away without a true PG in a Laimbeer offense because Tina was also used as a facilitator. Now that's not as frequently the case. I'm not sold they can be a 20+ win team without a PG running this offense. As you pointed out, there's also a difference between using the 3 as a weapon with your best outside shooters and being overly reliant on it with players who are regularly bricking it. Our 10 game winning streak was sparked by getting back to using Charles in the post as the primary source of offense. It led to her back spasms. And it wasn't a recipe for playoff success. I think their current style of offense can be, but who facilitates for whom still has to be addressed and answered consistently.

The defense...decidedly average without Kiah. Rebounding the same. Hopefully increased minutes and health will punctuate her to spark our D. She had 3 blocks and numerous shot alterations last night. She's very fit. I'm optimistic she will help our defense and rebounding improve. She can make up somewhat for the fact that Hartley and Coleman are turnstiles. Young destroyed Coleman offensively and Hartley has been subpar on D much of the year. I thought she was better last year on D.

I do not have the same confidence in our ability to facilitate consistent offense. Maybe Piph will help but when is she playing, at what position and with whom? Who's our primary perimeter scorer? Now that Sugar is back Nurse barely shoots the damn ball. It should be more balanced. I'm ready for Sugar to be out (traded) at this point. I'm tired of seeing her chuck up bad shots at a high rate.



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PostPosted: 06/14/18 10:05 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

As far as guards go, NY has too many 2/3's and no true PG. You had one in training camp, but cut her, and she's playing pretty well for LV. Presently, she's 6th in the league in assists/game despite averaging 24 minutes/game and only starting 6 of the 10 games this season (coming off the bench in the other 4). At least Bill gave her a chance.


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PostPosted: 06/14/18 10:59 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I just love it when NY fans get into some analysis here.



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PostPosted: 06/14/18 11:13 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Fighting Artichoke wrote:
As far as guards go, NY has too many 2/3's and no true PG. You had one in training camp, but cut her, and she's playing pretty well for LV. Presently, she's 6th in the league in assists/game despite averaging 24 minutes/game and only starting 6 of the 10 games this season (coming off the bench in the other 4). At least Bill gave her a chance.


I agree with this completely.

The other problem (though I guess if handle correctly could be a boon) is that based on one factor or another when healthy and in their current form (not what they were two years ago) we have no clear top dog or even top tier on the perimeter.

In Washington you know Toliver is getting 30 minutes, LV McBride and Young, Chi Sloot, Quigley, Deshields, LA Gray, Sims, Beard (and they are so good players like Pondecter, Williams and Carson know they're only getting 10 to 16 minutes off the bench) PX DT and Bonner, Minn (well Minny is working with a similar situation But) Whalen, Augustus, Dallas Diggins and the sophomores, Seattle Bird and Loyd, Atl McCoughtry and Hayes, Conn J. Thomas and C. Williams with Bentley to give instant offense off the bench and Strick to shoot the lights out, Even in Indy we already know they will live and die with the Mitchell's and Wheeler and Johnson will be the veteran stability.

IN NY who should be your 30 minute a night lead guard? or go to perimeter performer?
Hartley, Boyd, Rodgers, Prince, Nurse, Zellous or Coleman?
A couple years ago that might have been Prince and Rodgers but now it is anyone and thus it is no one.


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PostPosted: 06/15/18 12:22 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Fighting Artichoke wrote:
As far as guards go, NY has too many 2/3's and no true PG. You had one in training camp, but cut her, and she's playing pretty well for LV. Presently, she's 6th in the league in assists/game despite averaging 24 minutes/game and only starting 6 of the 10 games this season (coming off the bench in the other 4). At least Bill gave her a chance.


Yeah, I've been warning about the excess of wings for three seasons now. However, to be fair, just two games ago it was Hartley who was sixth in the league in assists at 4.8 with a sparkling 3.0 ATO. This early in the season, we still have small sample sizes so averages change quickly. Also, it was Laimbeer who first cut Allen last season. What got her a second chance was Prince leaving midseason to play with Russia.



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PostPosted: 06/15/18 12:04 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Libs are sixth in the league in points per possession. With a 102.9 defensive points per possession and only a .501 rebounding percentage. That’s including the abysmal Wednesday game which undoubtedly took the offensive numbers down. Hopefully as Stokes, Boyd and Piph play more and as Coleman, Hartley and Vaughn play less, those defense and rebounding numbers should improve. Our points per possession are tied with LA. Our defense is nowhere close. If we get back to playing Liberty defense and having Liberty rebounding it’s not the ultimate panacea. But it would definitely be a step or two in the right direction.



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PostPosted: 06/15/18 12:26 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

And on Wednesday we barely scored with Stokes on the floor. However, Vegas was by my count 7-22 from the floor when Stokes was in. .318 from the field.



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PostPosted: 06/15/18 9:30 pm    ::: Coaching wasn't in Katie Smith's plan Reply Reply with quote

http://www.startribune.com/coaching-wasn-t-in-katie-smith-s-plan-but-the-former-lynx-standout-is-firmly-at-the-helm-for-the-liberty/485720301/

Quote:
Here is one thing Lynx coach Cheryl Reeve and Katie Smith agree on — completely, 100 percent: Neither one thought Smith would ever walk into Target Center as a head coach.

“I said more than once I didn’t want to coach,” Smith said.

Said Reeve: “She always said, ‘I am not going to coach.’ ”

But here we are.



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PostPosted: 06/17/18 8:33 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The Liberty Try to Make Westchester Feel Like Home
Quote:
a more serious question emerged as Charles and Moore, both Olympic gold medalists and former league most valuable players, dueled inside the Westchester County Center in front of an announced crowd of 2,319.
What constitutes a proper environment for women’s basketball?
The Liberty are searching for that answer as they attempt to create a professional sports atmosphere in a facility that has a sliver of the resources and reputation of Madison Square Garden, their previous home.
“I can’t disrespect M.S.G. and say the County Center is close to it,” said Charles, the Liberty forward who grew up in Queens attending the team’s games at the Garden. “I’m not going to say that.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/17/sports/basketball/liberty-westchester-wnba.html



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PostPosted: 06/17/18 8:57 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Quote:
W.N.B.A. President Lisa Borders said the league had been pleased with the fan response to the Liberty’s move.

“This move to a smaller venue has created an intimate and exciting environment for the passionate fan base,” she said. “Madison Square Garden, one of the world’s most coveted — and arguably most expensive — venues at which to hold games and events, was no longer an ideal location to play a full season of Liberty games given the economics.”


Such BS by Borders.



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PostPosted: 06/17/18 8:59 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
Quote:
W.N.B.A. President Lisa Borders said the league had been pleased with the fan response to the Liberty’s move.

“This move to a smaller venue has created an intimate and exciting environment for the passionate fan base,” she said. “Madison Square Garden, one of the world’s most coveted — and arguably most expensive — venues at which to hold games and events, was no longer an ideal location to play a full season of Liberty games given the economics.”

Such BS by Borders.

I sure hope it is BS, because I would be appalled if they really are pleased.



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PostPosted: 06/17/18 9:02 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Also sad to hear the locker rooms are FOUR(4) flights up!!! And that the backstage accommodations are "high school level quality". So yeah, if the Liberty are to be here long term, which I hope they're not, upgrades need to be made.



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PostPosted: 06/17/18 9:24 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The only positive spin I can put on it is,

If we get new ownership, willing to put up some money, but Barclay Center is still considered too expensive maybe the actually in the city college venues that we wrote off as too small, are no longer too small. And I would be willing to bet that they have better facilities than the WCC.

(Ironically I was walking around the city after work today and walked past Fordham and thought, yeah I really wish the Liberty were playing there. I also past Colombia).

for people in the know what are the capacities of

Fordham
Colombia
NYU
Rutgers
ST. John's
LIU Brooklyn
Hunter


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PostPosted: 06/17/18 9:27 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Rose Hill Gymnasium at Fordham only seats 3,200 and is VERY OLD. Levien Gym at Columbia only holds 2,500 but was recently upgraded in 2002.



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PostPosted: 06/17/18 9:32 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
Levien Gym at Columbia only holds 2,500

*looks on Google maps* - ok, that could work.
*looks at photos* - yikes. small. but wait ... what is this strange seating arrangement? It appears that ... you can see the court from all the seats? Surprised
Looks amateur, yet still better than WCC, and at least located where the small amount of seats it has would be occupied.



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PostPosted: 06/17/18 9:35 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Luuuc wrote:
toad455 wrote:
Levien Gym at Columbia only holds 2,500

*looks on Google maps* - ok, that could work.
*looks at photos* - yikes. small. but wait ... what is this strange seating arrangement? It appears that ... you can see the court from all the seats? Surprised
Looks amateur, yet still better than WCC, and at least located where the small amount of seats it has would be occupied.


It's also almost entirely bleacher seating.




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PostPosted: 06/17/18 11:28 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I've seen a lot of games at Columbia. It is ridiculous and shameful that we have to have a conversation about a professional basketball team making Levien Gymasium its home. But no more ridiculous and shameful than playing in White Plains to a tiny crowd.

As toad has said, the statement by Lisa Borders is utter bs.



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