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WNBA 09



Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 7578
Location: Dallas , Texas


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PostPosted: 06/06/18 10:58 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
tfan wrote:
toad455 wrote:
They really should allow 6 games at MSG. The two kids days, Pride day, a game vs. the Mystics to please Delle Donne's fans, and a game vs. LA and someone else at the end of the season. Those 6 should draw 10k each or more. The rest can be played at WCC.


Delle Donne draws a large amount of people from Delaware to MSG?


yes. whether when she was with the Sky or Mystics, they get a solid 500+ people to come up. The entire section behind the visitors bench is filled with her fans.


Is NY Closer to Delaware than DC ? I remember she had a huge following her first year or two but haven't heard of these such crowds making the trip since she's been in DC.



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LibFan25



Joined: 01 Sep 2012
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PostPosted: 06/09/18 8:11 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

i want Boyd back in the starting lineup, Hartley is a good offense player but her defense has been bad as hell of late, it seem like Jaz Thomas could drive on her anytime she wanted too. very frustrating watching up close

another note, we need Stokes back badly. we got killed on the boards last game with that annoying small lineup Katie puts out there

other then that i think we be fine if Katie can a get better in end game situations maybe we can win a few....ya know? lol cuz all the games have been close, the potential to be good this year is there for the taking...


Bob Lamm



Joined: 11 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: 06/10/18 8:25 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Division of minutes today against Indiana (rounded to nearest minute), with Stokes and Prince out:

Charles 34, Vaughn 24, Zahui B. 18

Nurse 28, Hartley 28, Zellous 21, Coleman 19, Rodgers 15, Boyd 12, Allen zero

Here are the season averages through seven games (rounded to the nearest minute):

Charles 35, Stokes 19, Vaughn 17, Zahui B. 12

Nurse 29, Hartley 28, Zellous 25, Coleman 25, Rodgers 15, Allen 12, Boyd 9, Prince zero

If Stokes and Prince can return and everyone can somehow stay healthy for a while, it'll be very interesting to see how minutes are distributed.



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Shades



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PostPosted: 06/12/18 2:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

It's full speed ahead for Liberty coach Katie Smith

http://www.espn.com/wnba/story/_/id/23769358/full-speed-ahead-new-york-liberty-coach-katie-smith



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toad455



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PostPosted: 06/12/18 3:17 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Prince and Stokes activated for Wednesday's game. Liberty at full strength.

https://twitter.com/Pat_Ralph/status/1006626593706512386?s=19



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Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 06/12/18 3:44 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
Prince and Stokes activated for Wednesday's game. Liberty at full strength.

https://twitter.com/Pat_Ralph/status/1006626593706512386?s=19


Very good news. Perhaps they will play limited minutes in their first game back. But soon enough, as I addressed above, it's going to be very interesting to see how Katie Smith uses these 12 players. Who plays, how much, when during the game, and at what positions.



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Let's remember Anucha Browne, who was sexually harassed by Isiah Thomas. In recent years, she served as a vice president of the NCAA focusing on women's basketball championships. Now she is part of the Senior Management Team of UNICEF USA.
NYL_WNBA_FAN



Joined: 28 May 2007
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PostPosted: 06/12/18 5:10 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

WNBA Fans’ Nation, a seemingly reliable site on Facebook run by someone who knows his/her stuff, reports that Piph is a go tomorrow night and that Stokes is expected to play. Hopefully the info is accurate. Based on what I’ve seen this person write, I believe it probably is.



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NYL_WNBA_FAN



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PostPosted: 06/12/18 5:32 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

And whether Piph plays tomorrow night or not it begs one question. Sooner or later she’s coming back. How are we going to find minutes for all these guards? Say what you want about them individually but Hartley, Piph, Z, Sugar and Nurse are all 20+ minute players. They’re all mainly 2 guards, some of whom can play other positions. Coleman is playing well too. If games were 60 minutes instead of 40 we’d be set. And with post still being a need, is there an available trade for a post? They’re hard to obtain though.

Still, having all these solid players on the perimeter without enough minutes for them doesn’t make sense when we have a clear pressing need at another position.



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Last edited by NYL_WNBA_FAN on 06/12/18 5:35 pm; edited 2 times in total
toad455



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PostPosted: 06/12/18 5:33 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Yeah, he/she is typically accurate. The best source on Facebook now. He/she also reads these boards, so....



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Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 06/12/18 6:00 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:
And whether Piph plays tomorrow night or not it begs one question. Sooner or later she’s coming back. How are we going to find minutes for all these guards? Say what you want about them individually but Hartley, Piph, Z, Sugar and Nurse are all 20+ minute players. They’re all mainly 2 guards, some of whom can play other positions. Coleman is playing well too. If games were 60 minutes instead of 40 we’d be set. And with post still being a need, is there an available trade for a post? They’re hard to obtain though.

Still, having all these solid players on the perimeter without enough minutes for them doesn’t make sense when we have a clear pressing need at another position.


All true, as you and many others said through the winter and the preseason. I'm guessing that a trade for a post player who will be genuinely helpful will be hard to make. For me, if everyone is healthy then Rebecca Allen looks like the most expendable player on the roster. (Not that I mean to dump on her.) Zellous, Coleman, and Nurse can all play at 3. Is there any financial issue in releasing Allen and signing a post player? Is there anyone out there that would help?



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Let's remember Anucha Browne, who was sexually harassed by Isiah Thomas. In recent years, she served as a vice president of the NCAA focusing on women's basketball championships. Now she is part of the Senior Management Team of UNICEF USA.
mercfan3



Joined: 23 Nov 2004
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PostPosted: 06/12/18 6:42 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bob Lamm wrote:
NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:
And whether Piph plays tomorrow night or not it begs one question. Sooner or later she’s coming back. How are we going to find minutes for all these guards? Say what you want about them individually but Hartley, Piph, Z, Sugar and Nurse are all 20+ minute players. They’re all mainly 2 guards, some of whom can play other positions. Coleman is playing well too. If games were 60 minutes instead of 40 we’d be set. And with post still being a need, is there an available trade for a post? They’re hard to obtain though.

Still, having all these solid players on the perimeter without enough minutes for them doesn’t make sense when we have a clear pressing need at another position.


All true, as you and many others said through the winter and the preseason. I'm guessing that a trade for a post player who will be genuinely helpful will be hard to make. For me, if everyone is healthy then Rebecca Allen looks like the most expendable player on the roster. (Not that I mean to dump on her.) Zellous, Coleman, and Nurse can all play at 3. Is there any financial issue in releasing Allen and signing a post player? Is there anyone out there that would help?


We will give you Talbot and Little for Hartley and Zahui. Twisted Evil



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NYL_WNBA_FAN



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PostPosted: 06/12/18 7:16 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bob Lamm wrote:
NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:
And whether Piph plays tomorrow night or not it begs one question. Sooner or later she’s coming back. How are we going to find minutes for all these guards? Say what you want about them individually but Hartley, Piph, Z, Sugar and Nurse are all 20+ minute players. They’re all mainly 2 guards, some of whom can play other positions. Coleman is playing well too. If games were 60 minutes instead of 40 we’d be set. And with post still being a need, is there an available trade for a post? They’re hard to obtain though.

Still, having all these solid players on the perimeter without enough minutes for them doesn’t make sense when we have a clear pressing need at another position.


All true, as you and many others said through the winter and the preseason. I'm guessing that a trade for a post player who will be genuinely helpful will be hard to make. For me, if everyone is healthy then Rebecca Allen looks like the most expendable player on the roster. (Not that I mean to dump on her.) Zellous, Coleman, and Nurse can all play at 3. Is there any financial issue in releasing Allen and signing a post player? Is there anyone out there that would help?


Not sure about the financial aspect but I’m skeptical that signing a post player is potentially helpful, given the undersized nature of the posts who have been discussed. As far as trading, it remains to be seen if anyone is even available. Tall/long/somewhat athletic posts are a valuable commodity. Very difficult to acquire without giving up a lot.



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Richyyy



Joined: 17 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: 06/12/18 8:39 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bob Lamm wrote:
Is there any financial issue in releasing Allen and signing a post player?

Nope, surely no way they gave her any guaranteed money, so should be a straight cut for nothing.



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root_thing



Joined: 28 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: 06/12/18 10:59 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Las Vegas is starting rookies Wilson and Park, which means veterans Hamby, Bone, and Swords are coming off the bench with Harrison waiting in the wings. No way Bill needs six post players. Meanwhile, LVA is last in the league in 3-point shooting -- both makes and percentage. We know Bill loves Sugar's defense, so if she has another good game shooting 3's tomorrow and raises her value... Wink



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PostPosted: 06/13/18 12:28 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

My 3 plans for a 5th post

Prince for IMS (This also allows Atl to waive one of Lucas or Dietrick and bring in a new player maybe S. Thomas, Burdick, Larkins if they want more expeience or someone else).

Rodgers (or Hartley) and 2nd round pick for Harrison (LV gets a strong defensive guard who knows Laimbeer's system and a mid 2nd round pick in a good draft for a player who Bill has yet to work with).

Waive R. Allen sign vet Cannon or Hamson or younger post with Liberty experience Bulgak or Burdick (I realize 3 of them are on the small side but I think they all could jump ahead of Vaughn on the depth chart and will bring some fire). (With Prince, Boyd and Rodgers return Nurse will get most of her minutes at the 3 and we have Zellous as another option behind Coleman so there just aren't any minutes for R. Allen unless we keep playing her or Coleman some as a stretch 4 in the smaller line up).

Realistic plan cross fingers for Stokes to come back strong, draft a post next year, convince Nayo to return.


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PostPosted: 06/13/18 8:20 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

J-Spoon the Prince for IMS deal would be more than fair the Atlanta, but I'm just not a Prince fan


toad455



Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: 06/13/18 8:33 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I would just be in favor of waiving Allen and bringing in Larkins. Would prefer a Young post to develop, but outside of Bulgak and Kaylee Jensen our options are limited. Or a two player trade for a post and we sign Samuelson. Wings are short on players, maybe Rodgers and R. Allen for Powers? I doubt they'd trade Thornton. Or Gulich is sitting on the Mercury's bench, maybe Prince and Allen for Gulich? And we sign Samuelson.

PG: Hartley/Boyd
SG: Zellous/Nurse/Rodgers
SF: Coleman/Samuelson
PF: Charles/Zahui B
C: Stokes/Gulich/Vaughn



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root_thing



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PostPosted: 06/13/18 10:34 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

1) Rebecca Allen has virtually no trade value. Maybe you can swap her for another team's deep bench player where the specific needs of both teams match. Otherwise, using Allen as a throw-in to a larger deal won't add much since there are any number of unemployed players who have roughly the same level of talent and accomplishments.

2) Prince had a pretty decent 2017 season: 12 ppg and her defense was much improved after the All-Star break. Piph is also the best player on the team at creating off the dribble. She is not someone you casually trade away.

3) I like Harrison, but people need to remember she has a history of health issues -- missing 10 games with an ankle injury as a sophomore, missing 5 games with a sprained knee as a senior before ultimately tearing her ACL later in the year, and now she has some mystery ailment. I'd still be willing to trade for Harrison, but let's not go crazy and overpay. She has that injury-prone look.

4) If you go out and sign someone with limited or diminished skill off the streets, the primary objective should be size and vertical ability. We already have enough mediocre play from 6-3/6-2 post players (listed height notwithstanding). Part of what's killing us is all the 6-6/6-8 centers who are making our post players look like children. So, I would go for someone like Hamson. Not a huge fan, but she appears to be a legit 6-7 and her small sample size stats (mostly the case with marginal players) for rebounding and shot-blocking range from decent to great. For what it's worth, Hamson is coming off a big year in Australia (1st in blocks, 2nd in rebounds). Not necessarily meaningful, but it should be noted that not every American who goes there automatically puts up big numbers (e.g., Hamblin and Cloud). Also, Hamson is probably the best athlete of the bunch. We have video evidence that she can easily dunk, and she was an All-American volleyball player as well as a basketball star.

5) I'd be interested in IMS or Coates, who both look available. However, I don't see a match. Neither Atlanta nor Chicago needs perimeter players. That's why I suggested LVA. They have a desperate need for 3-Pt shooting, and on top of that Laimbeer knows the Liberty roster well. He would see more value in our players than anyone else because he has an idea of how they'd fit into his systems.



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Even now by the gate with your long hair blowing
And the colors of the day that lie along your arms
You must barter your life to make sure you are living
And the crowd that has come
You give them the colors
And the bells and wind and the dream
Randy



Joined: 08 Oct 2011
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PostPosted: 06/13/18 6:30 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

IMS for AZB?


toad455



Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: 06/13/18 6:38 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Randy wrote:
IMS for AZB?


No. But I'd do IMS for Vaughn.



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Randy



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PostPosted: 06/13/18 6:44 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I think we are at an impasse.


Shades



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PostPosted: 06/13/18 8:05 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Randy wrote:
IMS for AZB?


Pretty sure they'd rather have the 2019 Aces second round pick for Zahui, especially now that the fans have pulled up the stakes.



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PostPosted: 06/13/18 8:09 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NVM


willtalk



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PostPosted: 06/13/18 10:51 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
I would just be in favor of waiving Allen and bringing in Larkins. Would prefer a Young post to develop, but outside of Bulgak and Kaylee Jensen our options are limited. Or a two player trade for a post and we sign Samuelson. Wings are short on players, maybe Rodgers and R. Allen for Powers? I doubt they'd trade Thornton. Or Gulich is sitting on the Mercury's bench, maybe Prince and Allen for Gulich? And we sign Samuelson.

PG: Hartley/Boyd
SG: Zellous/Nurse/Rodgers
SF: Coleman/Samuelson
PF: Charles/Zahui B
C: Stokes/Gulich/Vaughn
I doubt they trade Gulich. She is a rookie and Griner is playing a lot of min. They need her in case Griner has an injury. They basically can just sit her on the bench while getting few minutes because it works for them. She is just insurance, but an insurance that they need.


J-Spoon



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PostPosted: 06/14/18 1:14 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

OK I am out of trade ideas

What I will say is

we have too many perimeter players

and not enough posts

I would pretty much be willing to trade any of our perimeter players (except for Nurse as she is our rookie with upside) for an OK post or post with potential.

I agree that we need more size but I would still be OK with a different or additional 6" 2-4" player who plays with energy, or simply grabs some boards and can make a couple of shots consistently. (I'm really not excited about only having Vaughn and Zahui B as the 3rd and 4th post. Stokes isn't doing well at the moment but I at least think she has and understands her role. Zahui B and Vaughn look like they are still trying to find a spot, but they also look nervous to try and step up. Vaughn tonight hit some nice mid-range shots, if she was doing that every game 10-15 minutes a night I would be all for it, she also look small out there for her position so pretty much needs to have an impact on offense or she is a liability. Zahui looks like she just can't do what worked for her in college or what works for her over-seas in the W, and possibly suffers from not being given/earning enough minutes to find her momentum.)

The thing about our team that is making me crazy right now is everyone outside of Charles is inconsistent. And now that we have more options It feels like instead of developing roles we're just going to keep bouncing people in and out until something (or nothing works).

Even with Nurse's struggles this game I felt like she was trying to give energy, and had some sense of what she needs to do to contribute. I get that feeling from Zellous as well, even if she got ejected tonight, and I see that to a lesser extent from Coleman.

I guess Boyd and Rodgers need a little bit more time until I give up, Boyd looks great when she is pushing the tempo, and driving past her defender but it doesn't seem to be having the impact on the actual game. Rodgers basically need to make all her shots because she has decided when she is in she is supposed to be taking all the shots when it comes to her I think she sees her role as instant offense off the bench, and we need the offense, but if her shot is not falling she still plays like she's McCoughtry or Deshields but she's hasn't been that player since college. I kind of think Sugar needs to start and focus more on defense, passing and playing as a shooter as part of the system off of Charles' inside game but she would have to take Zellous or Coleman's spot in the starting line up and I don't think the coach has that much faith in her. I feel like we have a perimeter full of support players but no perimeter star to compliment Charles in the post and doing by committee isn't going to cut it, but it what we have to do.

Oh well I will think something different tomorrow. It is too early to tank but some size or a guard like Durr or Ogunbowale who is actually going to score 10-15 ppg could really help.


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