| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Who will be the MVP at the end of the WNBA season? |
| Bonner |
|
4% |
[ 2 ] |
| Cambage |
|
6% |
[ 3 ] |
| Charles |
|
4% |
[ 2 ] |
| Delle Donne |
|
0% |
[ 0 ] |
| Diggins-Smith |
|
0% |
[ 0 ] |
| Fowles |
|
2% |
[ 1 ] |
| C Gray |
|
26% |
[ 12 ] |
| Griner |
|
2% |
[ 1 ] |
| Hayes |
|
0% |
[ 0 ] |
| Loyd |
|
6% |
[ 3 ] |
| McCoughtry |
|
0% |
[ 0 ] |
| K Mitchell |
|
2% |
[ 1 ] |
| Moore |
|
6% |
[ 3 ] |
| Nurse |
|
0% |
[ 0 ] |
| N Ogwumike |
|
2% |
[ 1 ] |
| Quigley |
|
4% |
[ 2 ] |
| Sims |
|
0% |
[ 0 ] |
| Stewart |
|
23% |
[ 11 ] |
| Taurasi |
|
4% |
[ 2 ] |
| Wilson |
|
4% |
[ 2 ] |
|
| Total Votes : 46 |
|
| Author |
Message |
mercfan
Joined: 08 May 2013
Posts: 1910
Back to top |
 Posted: 06/07/18 11:35 pm ::: |
Reply  |
|
| Richyyy wrote: |
| Luuuc wrote: |
| The patrolling thing is a copout too IMO. Sure it's a factor, but it still doesn't excuse being out-rebounded by Courtney Williams, who I dare say patrols further from the basket than BG does but still finds a way to contest for rebounds once a shot goes up. |
And you can just see it. Other true bigs slide over to help or challenge shots, then turn to look for the rebound or box out. Griner often tries to come over and block a shot, and then sort of vaguely looks over her shoulder at where the ball's going while it's in the air. She also - as Ann Meyers often points out before I remember to mute her - leaves her feet too often in her attempts to challenge/block, which is obviously going to make it tougher to turn round and get after the rebound.
All of that said, it's amazing how good Griner is while having these flaws. It kinda reminds me of Candace Parker 5 or 6 years ago, when her defense was just pathetic. She was still incredible, there was just this big hole until Agler got hold of her in LA. |
Rebounding is a skill. Rebounding is something that takes a little bit of natural ability. Assuming that she should be a dominant rebounder is almost disrespectful to smaller players who have mastered that skill. Do I wish she had more rebounds? Yes. Would I take any other big in this league over her? Absolutely not.
I get the argument, I just don’t really understand why it constantly gets blown out of proportion by so many people. Can ANYONE work the post with the finesse that she can? Make your argument. Nobody has that jump hook mastered to her level. I appreciate Griner for what she is, the most dominant offensive center this league may have ever seen. She makes it look easy and gets better every season.
Every player has flaws in their game. Sometimes I feel like we spend a lot of time critiquing that we miss so many once in a lifetime talents. But that is what this board is for so I’m all for the discussion!
|
|
Luuuc
#NATC
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 21926
Back to top |
| Posted: 06/07/18 11:55 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
I think rebounding is about intent as much as (if not more than) skill. If you really want that ball as soon as it goes up in the air, and you're 6'9, the skills of jumping and catching shouldn't be too much to ask. The desire to get to the spot in a timely manner and block out, on the other hand, take effort and discipline.
(and yes - every player has flaws. For me, the more frustrating ones to witness all the time are the ones concerning thinking and trying, rather than the ones related to lack of physical attributes or skills)
_________________
Thanks for calling. I wait all night for calls like these.
|
|
mercfan
Joined: 08 May 2013
Posts: 1910
Back to top |
| Posted: 06/08/18 12:10 am ::: |
Reply |
|
| Luuuc wrote: |
I think rebounding is about intent as much as (if not more than) skill. If you really want that ball as soon as it goes up in the air, and you're 6'9, the skills of jumping and catching shouldn't be too much to ask. The desire to get to the spot in a timely manner and block out, on the other hand, take effort and discipline.
(and yes - every player has flaws. For me, the more frustrating ones to witness all the time are the ones concerning thinking and trying, rather than the ones related to lack of physical attributes or skills) |
That’s valid and I don’t necessarily disagree for the most part in MOST cases. However, outside of being tall, I don’t really see similarities in the body composition of Griner compared to other top rebounders in this league. She will likely never just all the sudden have that part of her game figured out. I don’t want her to over exert energy trying to become a top rebounder just because. I’ll take the blocks and the scoring titles. But that’s just me.
|
|
mercfan
Joined: 08 May 2013
Posts: 1910
Back to top |
| Posted: 06/08/18 12:13 am ::: |
Reply |
|
| mercfan wrote: |
| Luuuc wrote: |
I think rebounding is about intent as much as (if not more than) skill. If you really want that ball as soon as it goes up in the air, and you're 6'9, the skills of jumping and catching shouldn't be too much to ask. The desire to get to the spot in a timely manner and block out, on the other hand, take effort and discipline.
(and yes - every player has flaws. For me, the more frustrating ones to witness all the time are the ones concerning thinking and trying, rather than the ones related to lack of physical attributes or skills) |
That’s valid and I don’t necessarily disagree for the most part in MOST cases. However, outside of being tall, I don’t really see similarities in the body composition of Griner compared to other top rebounders in this league. She will likely never just all the sudden have that part of her game figured out. I don’t want her to over exert energy trying to become a top rebounder just because. I’ll take the blocks and the scoring titles. But that’s just me. |
To stay on topic though, I went with Bonner (because why not be a homer). If I had a responsibility to fairly vote I would go with Thomas, Stewart or Gray as of today. Alyssa has been super impressive imo.
|
|
pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 66897
Location: Where the action is
Back to top |
| Posted: 06/08/18 6:57 am ::: |
Reply |
|
| Griner is getting the same kind of criticism Margo Dydek used to get. "She's so tall, she should be more dominant." It wasn't fair then and it's not fair now.
_________________
I'm a lonely frog
I ain't got a home
|
|
Randy
Joined: 08 Oct 2011
Posts: 10911
Back to top |
|
ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
Posts: 11139
Back to top |
|
Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 63761
Back to top |
| Posted: 06/08/18 10:13 am ::: |
Reply |
|
| pilight wrote: |
| Griner is getting the same kind of criticism Margo Dydek used to get. "She's so tall, she should be more dominant." It wasn't fair then and it's not fair now. |
Griner definitely has not met my expectations of her coming into the league. I had visions of her eventually going up strong to the basket and dunking in traffic at least a couple times a game. Doesn’t look like that’ll ever come to fruition. I just think all this talk about her rebounding is overblown and not very intuitive.
_________________
Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
|
|
Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005
Posts: 24348
Location: London
Back to top |
| Posted: 06/08/18 10:42 am ::: |
Reply |
|
| ClayK wrote: |
| Randy wrote: |
Height isn't the most necessary ingredient for a rebounder. Wes Unself (6-7) and Dennis Rodman (6- were two of the best ever rebounders in the NBA. The best solution for the Merc would be to pair her with a strong rebounding 4. Lyttle may fill the bill since she can still jump and rebound even if her shooting and offense are not what they once were. |
Brittney Griner is a bad rebounder for her size, and that is unlikely to change, as it's been true throughout her career.
At some point, coaches (and fans) have to accept players for who they are and what they bring, and adjust expectations accordingly.
A lot of people don't like Griner, and will always pick on her rebounding to downgrade her. (Same with CP3 and defense, EDD with assists, and so on down the line ...)
I'll take Brittney Griner on my team any time because I like to win. You can find players who will work hard at rebounding (Erlana Larkins, anyone?) and knowing who Griner is, it's up to the front office to get the right people around her. It's not like you can get a bunch of scrappy rebounders and then just add a player like Griner -- it needs to be the other way around. |
While there's a lot of hard work and sacrifice that goes into it, a large part of becoming a professional athlete comes down to inherent gifts (god-given, genetic, or however else you want to define them). So inevitably you end up with an element of jealousy from people watching who didn't manage to reach that level. That also means that the main things that draw criticism are things that seem easy to fix. A central part of rebounding is effort, so if Griner worked harder to chase and fight for rebounds, she'd get more; if Parker concentrated more and worked harder, she's be a better defender; if Delle Donne was less greedy for her own numbers, she'd create more for her teammates etc. etc. And these are all things that we as the non-athletically-gifted fans feel we could fix if we were in that situation - we could work harder, fight, concentrate, be unselfish. It makes them easy areas to pick on.
I don't think it's unreasonable to criticise players for things they're bad at, even if they're wildly gifted and successful in other areas. The best players are constantly improving in areas of weakness (as Parker certainly has, for example, albeit it took a hell of a long time). And especially if you're a fan of a specific team, of course you're going to be frustrated when Phoenix can't grab a board despite having probably the tallest/longest lineup in the entire league, or LA give up easy buckets despite all their talent, or the Sky's 6-5 superstar can't find an open teammate when she's quadruple-teamed, or... |
|
Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 63761
Back to top |
|
|
|
