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| Who will win this game? |
| Mercury |
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48% |
[ 12 ] |
| Liberty |
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52% |
[ 13 ] |
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| Total Votes : 25 |
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CamrnCrz1974
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
Posts: 18371
Location: Phoenix
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 Posted: 06/05/18 3:40 pm ::: |
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| Randy wrote: |
Interesting numbers:
FT - NY 3-5, PHO 17-19
Reb NY wins 39-21
Aged Sancho got the most steal 3 |
Normally, I am not a fan of +/- differential, because it does not allow for a host of other variables.
BUT...
In today's game, here were the +/- numbers for Diana Taruasi:
Taurasi on the court (34:32 minutes): +16
Taurasi off the court (5:28 minutes): -10
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Bob Lamm
Joined: 11 Apr 2010
Posts: 5065
Location: New York City
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Bob Lamm
Joined: 11 Apr 2010
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Location: New York City
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| Posted: 06/05/18 3:48 pm ::: |
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| I felt the Liberty lost today's game in the first half. They were completely controlling the boards and should have built a big lead, but mainly threw it away with terrible, often ill-advised passes. This isn't always true, to be sure, but I find that in basketball and other sports a team that should have a big lead early but doesn't generally loses the game.
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Randy
Joined: 08 Oct 2011
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J-Spoon
Joined: 31 Jan 2009
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| Posted: 06/05/18 3:55 pm ::: |
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| I said in the liberty thread maybe we should just straight up waive someone if they aren't doing it and bring UN someone else there are currently so unattached players who could do just as well if not better than our bench posts.
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WNBA 09
Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 12537
Location: Dallas , Texas
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| Posted: 06/05/18 4:03 pm ::: |
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| J-Spoon wrote: |
| I said in the liberty thread maybe we should just straight up waive someone if they aren't doing it and bring UN someone else there are currently so unattached players who could do just as well if not better than our bench posts. |
I feel like larkins will not be a Free agent this entire season .
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Bob Lamm
Joined: 11 Apr 2010
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Location: New York City
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myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008
Posts: 32335
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| Posted: 06/05/18 4:58 pm ::: |
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| J-Spoon wrote: |
| I said in the liberty thread maybe we should just straight up waive someone if they aren't doing it and bring UN someone else there are currently so unattached players who could do just as well if not better than our bench posts. |
this seems to be what Dallas is doing. But it's always hard for someone to jump in midseason - not knowing the system, plays, or players.
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Happycappie25
Joined: 07 Feb 2006
Posts: 4174
Location: QUEENS!!!!
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| Posted: 06/05/18 5:49 pm ::: |
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| myrtle wrote: |
| J-Spoon wrote: |
| I said in the liberty thread maybe we should just straight up waive someone if they aren't doing it and bring UN someone else there are currently so unattached players who could do just as well if not better than our bench posts. |
this seems to be what Dallas is doing. But it's always hard for someone to jump in midseason - not knowing the system, plays, or players. |
Yes and last time we tried to bring someone who had past success in she was mercilessly and wrongfully taunted. Yeah Erica Wheeler is up there with Erin and Donaphin in terms of players never given a chance with fans
posted my issues about the crowd on the team thread...As for the game
I think we're better than our record...we've been in every game...and honestly if it wasnt for some poor game management end of game by katie...4 and 1 isnt out of the question.
Agree zahui should have been in the game in the final 2 mins...the small lineup is why we almost blew it in indiana coleman just doesnt cut it as a 4...in a few mins to spell tina yes...in a lineup with her at 4 and tina at 5...no.
VAUGHN IS SHOT...should never have resigned her...had to start cuz stokes hurt again but she's D O N E...need to get someone else if she cant contribute...the amount of dropped balls and missed boards was stomach churning
Boyd rushed back too soon and the way she was cursing when she left the game and did not return im not so sure she didn't aggravate something...sucks but they have to make a decision on her soon.
And the refs get no pass...zahui gets hit above the shoulder THREE TIMES no call and then she gets a call for griner taking a dive over her feet...I respect Jeff Smith Forsberg and Mauer three of the few W refs I actually respect but they fucked that one up royally. The foul where tina got the T was also egregious...FT Differential was bull...and game was close enough yes i can say it changed the game...19-F I V E....merc got away with bloody murder.
Nurse was a hot mess on offense...but defensively she was on point and brought hustle...Hartley was spent at the end...Rodgers was not where she needed to be in terms of mobility...Shes a rookie she got her first taste of elite...and did ok...not on offense but did bring a ton of hustle and boards
We owned the boards...and thats no easy feat vs the merc...
we were motivated and showed some of the old school grit...thats why I say we're better than our record
YES Im not ready to watch the bloodbath that will be the sun thurs...but with Aces and Fever at home coming up...2 confidence builders
but Katie needs some lessons in clock and end of game managements...
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J-Spoon
Joined: 31 Jan 2009
Posts: 6800
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| Posted: 06/05/18 6:43 pm ::: |
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I would consider bringing in Larkins or Cannon over Vaughn.
And being a L. Allen fan I would consider moving on from one of our 2s or injured 1s for Chong who I think could do the same steady hand defense thing that l.Allen did
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NYL_WNBA_FAN
Joined: 28 May 2007
Posts: 14097
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| Posted: 06/05/18 8:17 pm ::: |
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Lots of great points in this thread. First off, like Happy Cappie above I'm optimistic in a number of ways. I like that we are battling in spite of being undermanned. Not having Stokes yet hanging in with Phoenix is encouraging too.
General points:
- I also thought Rodgers being in during crunch time was a mistake being she just returned
- I don't think there's a suitable replacement post on the waiver wire...we don't need undersized posts
- Team defense needs improvement
- Late-game management has been terrible in terms of execution
- Katie's substitutions aren't working the magic that Bill's substitutions did in the past...in her defense there aren't that many subs compared to what she should have at her disposal
- Zahui showed flashes of terrific play along with flashes of why she can't get off the bench late in games with the 5 TOs and 4 fouls in 16 minutes. If she had better balance her entire game would be so much better. But she doesn't so...we have flashes of brilliance mixed with maddening decision making and erratic play.
I feel with Stokes we've had such a revolving door with injuries and whatever the deal was with her at the start of last year. If she's not going to be a dominant defensive player then I see the Libs being .500 or worse. Particularly if Vaughn does not improve. I have faith that Kiah can still be an upper-echelon defender but we have to see it again consistently at some point or it becomes fantasy rather than reality.
Rodgers' lack of floor game showed itself in two separate possessions late, including that godawful contested 3.
Hopefully come September we will have a healthy squad and still be within range of a 4 seed. I think a healthy Liberty team can make some noise in the playoffs if they don't fall too far behind to get a decent playoff spot. I see a similar team to the 2015 Indiana team (also banged up on their way to a rough start) that came within a game of the WNBA title on the strength of solid, physical wing play, 3 point shooters, and one star who facilitates for her teammates.
However, that team had a glue player at PG in January. We certainly do not have that type of player at the PG spot. That can be possibly overcome if we get that type of play from Nurse, but it remains to be seen how much you can lean on a rookie in the playoffs.
I can tell y'all this much. I am so tired of having players return from injury only to lose other players. We've had 12 healthy players in two games out of the last 79 regular season games dating back to 2015. Several of those injuries have been long-term injuries that still impact those players today. Digest that. I know it sounds like I'm whining about it but can any other WNBA team make the same claim? I don't think so.
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NYL_WNBA_FAN
Joined: 28 May 2007
Posts: 14097
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| Posted: 06/05/18 8:31 pm ::: |
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| J-Spoon wrote: |
I would consider bringing in Larkins or Cannon over Vaughn.
And being a L. Allen fan I would consider moving on from one of our 2s or injured 1s for Chong who I think could do the same steady hand defense thing that l.Allen did |
We should have kept Allen. With her we'd have probably won today.
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toad455
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
Posts: 22474
Location: NJ
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| Posted: 06/05/18 8:38 pm ::: |
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| This is why I'm in favor of bringing in Chong. We need someone who can run PG efficiently.
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Bob Lamm
Joined: 11 Apr 2010
Posts: 5065
Location: New York City
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| Posted: 06/05/18 8:56 pm ::: |
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| NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote: |
| J-Spoon wrote: |
I would consider bringing in Larkins or Cannon over Vaughn.
And being a L. Allen fan I would consider moving on from one of our 2s or injured 1s for Chong who I think could do the same steady hand defense thing that l.Allen did |
We should have kept Allen. With her we'd have probably won today. |
I've said this all along. Perhaps I'll be proven wrong, but at the moment I wish we had Lindsay Allen and Russell rather than some of the players we have.
It's so ironic that Lindsay Allen is the starting point guard for Bill Laimbeer--who never seemed interested in having a genuine point guard play that position. Well, I wish that genuine point guard was still on OUR team.
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WNBA 09
Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 12537
Location: Dallas , Texas
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| Posted: 06/05/18 8:58 pm ::: |
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| Im finally watching the replay and i have to say this and it might frustrate a few posters but WHY TF does Tina Happy Feet Charles always get away with traveling. 75% of her attacking plays are travels or if she pump fakes . This has been observed for years and never is it called.
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toad455
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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Location: NJ
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| Posted: 06/05/18 9:16 pm ::: |
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| yeah, we should've kept L. Allen, Russell and even Gray over R. Allen, Vaughn & Boyd.
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Randy
Joined: 08 Oct 2011
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| Posted: 06/05/18 9:36 pm ::: |
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| J-Spoon wrote: |
I would consider bringing in Larkins or Cannon over Vaughn.
And being a L. Allen fan I would consider moving on from one of our 2s or injured 1s for Chong who I think could do the same steady hand defense thing that l.Allen did |
Maybe the problem is that Vaughn has guaranteed money and lack of cap space, so they can't just waive her. As as Larkins goes, she really was not very productive last season for the Fever and has had injury problems for a couple of years now.
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Bob Lamm
Joined: 11 Apr 2010
Posts: 5065
Location: New York City
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| Posted: 06/05/18 9:41 pm ::: |
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| WNBA 09 wrote: |
| Im finally watching the replay and i have to say this and it might frustrate a few posters but WHY TF does Tina Happy Feet Charles always get away with traveling. 75% of her attacking plays are travels or if she pump fakes . This has been observed for years and never is it called. |
I'm willing to bet that you know the answer to your question. In the WNBA, in the rest of basketball, in other sports, stars get leeway in all sorts of ways. I'm not saying this is right. But you know why it is... for Tina Charles and for many, many other stars.
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WNBA 09
Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 12537
Location: Dallas , Texas
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| Posted: 06/05/18 9:52 pm ::: |
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| Bob Lamm wrote: |
| WNBA 09 wrote: |
| Im finally watching the replay and i have to say this and it might frustrate a few posters but WHY TF does Tina Happy Feet Charles always get away with traveling. 75% of her attacking plays are travels or if she pump fakes . This has been observed for years and never is it called. |
I'm willing to bet that you know the answer to your question. In the WNBA, in the rest of basketball, in other sports, stars get leeway in all sorts of ways. I'm not saying this is right. But you know why it is... for Tina Charles and for many, many other stars. |
I agree yes i do understand she is the face of the team so she gets the leeway, but maybe thats why shes overshadowed. Shes not that exciting of a player with her style of play but as consistent as they come. The traveling though is a bit outrageous in her case .
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Randy
Joined: 08 Oct 2011
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GlennMacGrady
Joined: 03 Jan 2005
Posts: 8227
Location: Heisenberg
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| Posted: 06/05/18 10:21 pm ::: |
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That's an amusing video. Reminds me of some of the reasons I stopped following the NBA 25 years ago after 40 years of fandom: cartoonish streetball one-on-one and look-at-me individual hero play, actively enabled by coaches and refs. |
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root_thing
Joined: 28 Apr 2007
Posts: 7365
Location: Underground
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| Posted: 06/05/18 10:55 pm ::: |
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| Randy wrote: |
| Maybe the problem is that Vaughn has guaranteed money and lack of cap space, so they can't just waive her. |
Yes, money is very possibly the issue. You can always cut people, but the real question is do you have to pay them and how much cap space does that leave you? In Vaughn's case, the time to dump her would've been when she was overseas. Not showing up for camp and missing regular season games are both violations of her contract. Of course, management must have expected that when the Liberty re-signed Vaughn so obviously they wanted her anyway. I get the sense that Katie Smith is a players' coach who is very loyal to her veterans. I don't think she'll be cutting anyone soon even if the Liberty do have cap space. Given that the team had injuries and other players joined late, Smith has enough excuses to cut people some slack. I don't see her making tough Laimbeer-type moves just to shake things up. I wouldn't mind if it hapens, but I doubt that it will.
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