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toad455
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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 Posted: 05/28/18 11:41 am ::: |
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That's it? Not good for a home opener. Definitely looked like more.
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tfan
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: 05/28/18 11:52 am ::: |
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| toad455 wrote: |
That's it? Not good for a home opener. Definitely looked like more. |
It didn't look like more to me, but it was the type of crowd that WNBA teams will normally announce as 7 thousand-ish. I seem to recall it being said that the other casino owner, the Sun, were more honest in their announced attendance back in the day but don't know if that still holds true.
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WNBA 09
Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 12525
Location: Dallas , Texas
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| Posted: 05/28/18 8:53 pm ::: |
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| josephkramer44 wrote: |
| Good news for Dallas! I think there is still quite a bit of difference between their reported and actual attendance but it looks a whole lot better than the past couple of seasons. I wonder what they are doing differently? |
I was there that number is accurate. Reminder we only played 1 home game so far.
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toad455
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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| Posted: 05/29/18 7:32 am ::: |
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| UPDATED to include Las Vegas' home opener.
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CamrnCrz1974
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 05/29/18 12:35 pm ::: |
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| toad455 wrote: |
That's it? Not good for a home opener. Definitely looked like more. |
First, the arena only holds 12,000, which is smaller than other WNBA teams (e.g., Phoenix, LA, Minnesota, etc.) that play in NBA venues.
Second, the arena is owned and operated by MGM Resorts International, which means the operating costs are a lot less then other WNBA teams, as the security, concessions, etc. are already in place for the casino (same deal with the CT Sun). So the ability to turn a profit is greater (and easier) and does not require as much in terms of paid attendance as other franchises.
Third, I am curious to see how much of a travel destination this becomes for fans of other WNBA teams. There are Mercury trips being planned to Vegas, for example, for the Aces-Mercury games.
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Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005
Posts: 24344
Location: London
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| Posted: 05/29/18 12:50 pm ::: |
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| Apparently Vegas are down to 7,500-8,000 with the current configuration, but a bit of a suprise the attendance would be that low given CRDS saying here that they were heading for a sellout. |
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UltimateLynxFan
Joined: 18 May 2008
Posts: 163
Location: Minnesota
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| Posted: 05/31/18 1:32 am ::: Old Story but Accurate |
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| I've wondered for years how attendance was calculated. Even though this is an old story (2005) and covers mainly baseball, it is a good primer on how game attendance figures are calculated. The biggest thing is the no-show rate based upon tickets distributed. In baseball, it seems to be more around 19-20% per game for most teams. While we don't have a definitive way of knowing for sure what that rate would be for the WNBA, I would not be surprised that successful teams like LA, Minnesota and Connecticut are closer to 10-15% while teams that have been on the bottom end of the standings in recent years like Indiana, Atlanta or Dallas could be closer to 25-30%. http://www.latimes.com/la-sp-attendance-082305-story.html
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toad455
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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| Posted: 06/03/18 7:50 pm ::: |
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| Just a note, the Vegas home opener has been officially announced as 7,662; not 4,467.
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toad455
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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| Posted: 06/03/18 7:57 pm ::: |
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14 games this week, only one game had over 10k and 11 games drew below 6k. Not a pretty start.
RANK. TEAM(# games) - 2018 Average [+/- 2017 Average)
1. Los Angeles Sparks(2) - 12,351 (+1,001)
2. Minnesota Lynx(3) - 9,899 (-508)
3. Phoenix Mercury(3) - 9,155 (-758)
4. Las Vegas Aces(2) - 6,619 (+233)
5. Seattle Storm(4) - 6,039 (-1,665)
6. Connecticut Sun(3) - 6,017 (-711)
7. Chicago Sky(4) - 5,813 (-770)
8. Washington Mystics(4) - 5,702 (-2,069)
9. Dallas Wings(2) - 5,549 (+1,677)
10. Indiana Fever(4) - 5,324 (-2,214)
11. Atlanta Dream(3) - 4,110 (-342)
12. New York Liberty(2) - 1,916 (-7,974)
WNBA AVERAGE(36) - 6,442 (-1,274)
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Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005
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| Posted: 06/03/18 8:01 pm ::: |
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| Tonight was reportedly a 13k sellout in LA as well. Wonder why they're drawing so well after losing a championship game. Would be interesting to know if there've been any special initiatives that have led to it that other teams could copy (besides several years of being really good). |
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PUmatty
Joined: 10 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 06/03/18 8:40 pm ::: |
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| A lot of red numbers in that list ...
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toad455
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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| Posted: 06/03/18 8:51 pm ::: |
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| PUmatty wrote: |
| A lot of red numbers in that list ... |
The Liberty are to be expected, but the Storm, Fever & Mystics are no where close to last season's averages.
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Luuuc
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Joined: 10 Feb 2005
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| Posted: 06/03/18 9:33 pm ::: |
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| toad455 wrote: |
| PUmatty wrote: |
| A lot of red numbers in that list ... |
The Liberty are to be expected, but the Storm, Fever & Mystics are no where close to last season's averages. |
Putting aside the fact that nearly all of these numbers are fabricated and meaningless, it's also true that "attendance" typically improves as the season progresses, right?
From my observations it's also pretty standard for there to be a bit of lag between a team becoming better/more entertaining, and the attendance following suit.
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WNBA 09
Joined: 26 Jun 2009
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| Posted: 06/03/18 10:00 pm ::: |
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| Luuuc wrote: |
| toad455 wrote: |
| PUmatty wrote: |
| A lot of red numbers in that list ... |
The Liberty are to be expected, but the Storm, Fever & Mystics are no where close to last season's averages. |
Putting aside the fact that nearly all of these numbers are fabricated and meaningless, it's also true that "attendance" typically improves as the season progresses, right?
From my observations it's also pretty standard for there to be a bit of lag between a team becoming better/more entertaining, and the attendance following suit. |
Agreed the closest team would be my wings in my opinion with the addition of cambage changing the entire landscape of our team but maybe im.a bit biased so...Although or two home games have been wayyyy bigger than any game played last season.
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Luuuc
#NATC
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
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| Posted: 06/03/18 10:27 pm ::: |
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| WNBA 09 wrote: |
| Luuuc wrote: |
| toad455 wrote: |
| PUmatty wrote: |
| A lot of red numbers in that list ... |
The Liberty are to be expected, but the Storm, Fever & Mystics are no where close to last season's averages. |
Putting aside the fact that nearly all of these numbers are fabricated and meaningless, it's also true that "attendance" typically improves as the season progresses, right?
From my observations it's also pretty standard for there to be a bit of lag between a team becoming better/more entertaining, and the attendance following suit. |
Agreed the closest team would be my wings in my opinion with the addition of cambage changing the entire landscape of our team but maybe im.a bit biased so...Although or two home games have been wayyyy bigger than any game played last season. |
It seems like Dallas did something else prior to the season to boost their popularity, given their huge increase in season ticket holders before Cambage had even arrived in the country.
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Randy
Joined: 08 Oct 2011
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| Posted: 06/03/18 10:48 pm ::: |
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| toad455 wrote: |
14 games this week, only one game had over 10k and 11 games drew below 6k. Not a pretty start.
RANK. TEAM(# games) - 2018 Average [+/- 2017 Average)
1. Los Angeles Sparks(2) - 12,351 (+1,001)
2. Minnesota Lynx(3) - 9,899 (-508)
3. Phoenix Mercury(3) - 9,155 (-758)
4. Las Vegas Aces(2) - 6,619 (+233)
5. Seattle Storm(4) - 6,039 (-1,665)
6. Connecticut Sun(3) - 6,017 (-711)
7. Chicago Sky(4) - 5,813 (-770)
8. Washington Mystics(4) - 5,702 (-2,069)
9. Dallas Wings(2) - 5,549 (+1,677)
10. Indiana Fever(4) - 5,324 (-2,214)
11. Atlanta Dream(3) - 4,110 (-342)
12. New York Liberty(2) - 1,916 (-7,974)
WNBA AVERAGE(36) - 6,442 (-1,274) |
I would be interested in knowing from the fans if their teams increased ticket prices this year. Dream did away with the lowest cost tickets and increased the prices for all of the other tickets from what I can tell, despite attendance dropping off and games being played in a less popular and less accessible arena. How about other teams?
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WNBA 09
Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 12525
Location: Dallas , Texas
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| Posted: 06/04/18 9:17 am ::: |
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| Luuuc wrote: |
| WNBA 09 wrote: |
| Luuuc wrote: |
| toad455 wrote: |
| PUmatty wrote: |
| A lot of red numbers in that list ... |
The Liberty are to be expected, but the Storm, Fever & Mystics are no where close to last season's averages. |
Putting aside the fact that nearly all of these numbers are fabricated and meaningless, it's also true that "attendance" typically improves as the season progresses, right?
From my observations it's also pretty standard for there to be a bit of lag between a team becoming better/more entertaining, and the attendance following suit. |
Agreed the closest team would be my wings in my opinion with the addition of cambage changing the entire landscape of our team but maybe im.a bit biased so...Although or two home games have been wayyyy bigger than any game played last season. |
It seems like Dallas did something else prior to the season to boost their popularity, given their huge increase in season ticket holders before Cambage had even arrived in the country. |
Only thing i could think of was the discounted season ticket prices for early sign ups that took place during the season finale last year and also during the offseason.
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so-many-pickles
Joined: 17 May 2018
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| Posted: 06/04/18 2:39 pm ::: |
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| Randy wrote: |
| toad455 wrote: |
14 games this week, only one game had over 10k and 11 games drew below 6k. Not a pretty start.
RANK. TEAM(# games) - 2018 Average [+/- 2017 Average)
1. Los Angeles Sparks(2) - 12,351 (+1,001)
2. Minnesota Lynx(3) - 9,899 (-508)
3. Phoenix Mercury(3) - 9,155 (-758)
4. Las Vegas Aces(2) - 6,619 (+233)
5. Seattle Storm(4) - 6,039 (-1,665)
6. Connecticut Sun(3) - 6,017 (-711)
7. Chicago Sky(4) - 5,813 (-770)
8. Washington Mystics(4) - 5,702 (-2,069)
9. Dallas Wings(2) - 5,549 (+1,677)
10. Indiana Fever(4) - 5,324 (-2,214)
11. Atlanta Dream(3) - 4,110 (-342)
12. New York Liberty(2) - 1,916 (-7,974)
WNBA AVERAGE(36) - 6,442 (-1,274) |
I would be interested in knowing from the fans if their teams increased ticket prices this year. Dream did away with the lowest cost tickets and increased the prices for all of the other tickets from what I can tell, despite attendance dropping off and games being played in a less popular and less accessible arena. How about other teams? |
My season ticket for the Storm went up from $21 to $24 per game. It was the first increase in a while. I think my section is the second-cheapest.
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calbearman76
Joined: 02 Nov 2009
Posts: 5155
Location: Carson City
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| Posted: 06/04/18 3:50 pm ::: |
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| toad455 wrote: |
| Just a note, the Vegas home opener has been officially announced as 7,662; not 4,467. |
I guess Vegas hadn't been told that they didn't have to report actual attendance as official attendance. Either that or they recounted 70% of the people as they left.
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zune69
Joined: 27 May 2010
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| Posted: 06/04/18 4:03 pm ::: |
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Just for comparison.After 43 Home games last season.The avg attendance was 6.814
| toad455 wrote: |
1. Los Angeles Sparks(3) - 10,418 (+780)
2. Phoenix Mercury(4) - 8,917 (-1,434)
3. Minnesota Lynx(3) - 8,767 (-499)
4. New York Liberty(5) - 7,715 (-2,009)
5. San Antonio Stars(4) - 6,852 (+467)
6. Indiana Fever(3) - 6,596 (-1,979)
7. Connecticut Sun(2) - 6,389 (+552)
8. Seattle Storm(5) - 6,443 (-787)
9. Washington Mystics(4) - 5,819 (-1,110)
10. Chicago Sky(4) - 5,619 (-1,390)
11. Atlanta Dream(3) - 4,308 (-1,306)
12. Dallas Wings(3) - 3,443 (-1,855)
WNBA Average(43) - 6,814 (-840)
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
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| Posted: 06/04/18 4:28 pm ::: |
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| zune69 wrote: |
Just for comparison.After 43 Home games last season.The avg attendance was 6.814
| toad455 wrote: |
1. Los Angeles Sparks(3) - 10,418 (+780)
2. Phoenix Mercury(4) - 8,917 (-1,434)
3. Minnesota Lynx(3) - 8,767 (-499)
4. New York Liberty(5) - 7,715 (-2,009)
5. San Antonio Stars(4) - 6,852 (+467)
6. Indiana Fever(3) - 6,596 (-1,979)
7. Connecticut Sun(2) - 6,389 (+552)
8. Seattle Storm(5) - 6,443 (-787)
9. Washington Mystics(4) - 5,819 (-1,110)
10. Chicago Sky(4) - 5,619 (-1,390)
11. Atlanta Dream(3) - 4,308 (-1,306)
12. Dallas Wings(3) - 3,443 (-1,855)
WNBA Average(43) - 6,814 (-840)
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It's going to be hard for the WNBA to jigger the books to get an increase this year with the Libs in Westchester. That -2,009 is only going to get bigger.
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toad455
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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| Posted: 06/04/18 4:59 pm ::: |
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| I did some math about the Liberty. Even if their two camp days at MSG are sellouts(19,800), the most they can average with 2k a night a WCC is 4,094. Of course they can increase capacity at WCC to 4,600, so we'll see if more fans show up at WCC as the season goes on.
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toad455
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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| Posted: 06/11/18 8:33 am ::: |
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13 games this week with 6 games over 7k. Numbers always start of low, but this is looking grim with 3/4 of the league averaging below 6,500.
RANK. TEAM(# games) - 2018 Average [+/- 2017 Average)
1. Los Angeles Sparks(4) - 10,536 (-814)
2. Minnesota Lynx(3) - 9,899 (-508)
3. Phoenix Mercury(5) - 8,954 (-959)
4. Las Vegas Aces(3) - 6,383 (-3)
5. Washington Mystics(5) - 6,279 (-1,492)
6. Connecticut Sun(4) - 6,206 (-523)
7. Seattle Storm(5) - 6,100 (-1,604)
8. Chicago Sky(4) - 5,813 (-770)
9. Dallas Wings(2) - 5,549 (+1,677)
10. Indiana Fever(5) - 5,394 (-2,144)
11. Atlanta Dream(3) - 3,790 (-662)
12. New York Liberty(5) - 2,833 (-7,056)
WNBA AVERAGE(49) - 6,390 (-1,326)
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cthskzfn
Joined: 21 Nov 2004
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Location: In a world where a PSYCHOpath like Trump isn't potus.
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| Posted: 06/11/18 9:33 am ::: |
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Optimistically, the W seems at least able to maintain its niche status.
I consider that a win.
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CamrnCrz1974
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 06/11/18 12:37 pm ::: |
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| toad455 wrote: |
13 games this week with 6 games over 7k. Numbers always start of low, but this is looking grim with 3/4 of the league averaging below 6,500.
RANK. TEAM(# games) - 2018 Average [+/- 2017 Average)
1. Los Angeles Sparks(4) - 10,536 (-814)
2. Minnesota Lynx(3) - 9,899 (-508)
3. Phoenix Mercury(5) - 8,954 (-959)
4. Las Vegas Aces(3) - 6,383 (-3)
5. Washington Mystics(5) - 6,279 (-1,492)
6. Connecticut Sun(4) - 6,206 (-523)
7. Seattle Storm(5) - 6,100 (-1,604)
8. Chicago Sky(4) - 5,813 (-770)
9. Dallas Wings(2) - 5,549 (+1,677)
10. Indiana Fever(5) - 5,394 (-2,144)
11. Atlanta Dream(3) - 3,790 (-662)
12. New York Liberty(5) - 2,833 (-7,056)
WNBA AVERAGE(49) - 6,390 (-1,326)
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Yes and no.
Mohegan Sun Arena holds 9.323 for basketball. So assuming that the numbers reflect the total number of tickets sold, that means the 2/3 of the arena was sold.
Also, are the 2017 averages that you are using based on the entire season for 2017, or are they based on the attendance number at the same time last year?
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