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basketballologist
Joined: 05 Aug 2013
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 Posted: 05/23/18 12:11 pm ::: |
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| Richyyy wrote: |
Tokashiki regressed pretty badly, so I could see a swap for someone like McGee-Stafford to see if either can do better on a new team before the league gives up on them in general. So many of IMS's issues on the court are down to her head, and coaches often back themselves to be able to fix things like that.
But no way in hell Seattle give up on Canada already for someone like Clarendon. |
It all depends on how well Canada develop. You see what happened with Alexis Peterson. If Canada proves that she is a backup at best, then why not trade her to a team for a proven starting PG
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Michelle89
Joined: 17 Nov 2010
Posts: 16464
Location: Holland
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| Posted: 05/23/18 12:47 pm ::: |
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| basketballologist wrote: |
| Richyyy wrote: |
Tokashiki regressed pretty badly, so I could see a swap for someone like McGee-Stafford to see if either can do better on a new team before the league gives up on them in general. So many of IMS's issues on the court are down to her head, and coaches often back themselves to be able to fix things like that.
But no way in hell Seattle give up on Canada already for someone like Clarendon. |
It all depends on how well Canada develop. You see what happened with Alexis Peterson. If Canada proves that she is a backup at best, then why not trade her to a team for a proven starting PG |
Players and especially PG's need time to develop and she is going to get that time with Bird around to learn from and enough playing time. You cant compare Peterson with Canada whole different level
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basketballologist
Joined: 05 Aug 2013
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| Posted: 05/23/18 1:33 pm ::: |
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| Michelle89 wrote: |
| basketballologist wrote: |
| Richyyy wrote: |
Tokashiki regressed pretty badly, so I could see a swap for someone like McGee-Stafford to see if either can do better on a new team before the league gives up on them in general. So many of IMS's issues on the court are down to her head, and coaches often back themselves to be able to fix things like that.
But no way in hell Seattle give up on Canada already for someone like Clarendon. |
It all depends on how well Canada develop. You see what happened with Alexis Peterson. If Canada proves that she is a backup at best, then why not trade her to a team for a proven starting PG |
Players and especially PG's need time to develop and she is going to get that time with Bird around to learn from and enough playing time. You cant compare Peterson with Canada whole different level |
The reason for them drafting Peterson was to be Bird's successor. That didn't work out. That's why I said we need to see what Canada bring to the table
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 63759
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| Posted: 05/23/18 1:45 pm ::: |
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| basketballologist wrote: |
The reason for them drafting Peterson was to be Bird's successor. That didn't work out. That's why I said we need to see what Canada bring to the table |
Peterson was rarely used, maybe unfairly so under Boucek.
Canada, on the other hand, hasn't had a bad game, preseason or regular season. That's why we had the premature discussion in the SEA thread about Bird possibly taking a back seat. Anyway, Canada looks to be what SEA has been waiting for a long time, so it would take something way more enticing than what you presented to get a deal done. I'm not sure what it would take would be worth it to ATL.
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basketballologist
Joined: 05 Aug 2013
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| Posted: 05/23/18 1:56 pm ::: |
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| Shades wrote: |
| basketballologist wrote: |
The reason for them drafting Peterson was to be Bird's successor. That didn't work out. That's why I said we need to see what Canada bring to the table |
Peterson was rarely used, maybe unfairly so under Boucek.
Canada, on the other hand, hasn't had a bad game, preseason or regular season. That's why we had the premature discussion in the SEA thread about Bird possibly taking a back seat. Anyway, Canada looks to be what SEA has been waiting for a long time, so it would take something way more enticing than what you presented to get a deal done. I'm not sure what it would take would be worth it to ATL. |
I agree. I was just saying, just in case it didnt work out with Canada, they could try to go with the Clarendon route.
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Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005
Posts: 24345
Location: London
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| Posted: 05/23/18 2:08 pm ::: |
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| basketballologist wrote: |
| Michelle89 wrote: |
| basketballologist wrote: |
| Richyyy wrote: |
Tokashiki regressed pretty badly, so I could see a swap for someone like McGee-Stafford to see if either can do better on a new team before the league gives up on them in general. So many of IMS's issues on the court are down to her head, and coaches often back themselves to be able to fix things like that.
But no way in hell Seattle give up on Canada already for someone like Clarendon. |
It all depends on how well Canada develop. You see what happened with Alexis Peterson. If Canada proves that she is a backup at best, then why not trade her to a team for a proven starting PG |
Players and especially PG's need time to develop and she is going to get that time with Bird around to learn from and enough playing time. You cant compare Peterson with Canada whole different level |
The reason for them drafting Peterson was to be Bird's successor. That didn't work out. That's why I said we need to see what Canada bring to the table |
They took Peterson at #15 as a flier, in the hope that she might work out. Not as a definitive successor or heir apparent - you're not getting that in the second round. They took Canada at #5, over the likes of Stevens, Vivians and Vadeeva. Whole different ballgame, with completely different expectations. |
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Randy
Joined: 08 Oct 2011
Posts: 10911
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| Posted: 05/23/18 2:45 pm ::: |
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| WNBA 09 wrote: |
| Michelle89 wrote: |
| basketballologist wrote: |
Seattle Receive:
G Layshia Clarendon
C Imani McGee-Stafford
Atlanta Receive:
G Jordin Canada
F Ramu Tokashiki |
Yes to the rights of Tokashiki for Imani |
What do you see in Imani if you dont mind me asking ? Besides her being tall , shes contributed absolutely nothing to this league besides 1 good game 2 years ago. Id rather have Tok , but im not a storm fan so interested to hear your opinion ? |
Tok hasn't even shown up this year. But then, you always fall for the girls who play hard to get.
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J-Spoon
Joined: 31 Jan 2009
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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J-Spoon
Joined: 31 Jan 2009
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| Posted: 05/24/18 1:58 am ::: |
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| Shades wrote: |
| J-Spoon wrote: |
| WNBA 09 wrote: |
| toad455 wrote: |
| Anyone want Prince from New York? |
Thornton for Prince ?  |
I'm up for this trade, if you weren't joking.
I like Kayla's grit, and want to free up minutes for Nurse and Hartley. |
That offer must have been made before tonight’s game when he realized she was good. The Wings will be leaning heavily on Thornton until Glory is 100%, and who knows when that’ll be. Hamstrings can be tricky like that.
Go see if Laimbeer will take Prince for Coffey. |
Not as exciting but I would consider it.
I still want Jefferson, if she can prove she is healthy by mid season and NY is solidly out of the lottery
NY's 1st round pick for Jefferson
(I'm trying to realistic and up the ante if we can get Jefferson for Rodgers, Prince or Boyd and a throw in of our 2nd round pick and keep our first round pick I'm all for it.)
I know it is a big risk but 3rd/4th year Jefferson will be further along than anyone we we would get in 19, and I think a future line up of
Jefferson, Hartley, Nurse, Charles and Stokes
with a Bench of Boyd, Rodgers, Zellous, Zahui B
and a couple of free agents could get NY closer to contending while the Charles window is still open.
(Ok I'm not 100% with this idea because I would love Ogunbowale at say the #6 pick, but if Arike, Brown, McCowan, KLS and Durr are off the board before we pick I would take Jefferson over say Cunningham or who else would be available after those 5.)
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Randy
Joined: 08 Oct 2011
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| Posted: 05/24/18 7:33 am ::: |
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| Why have NY fans suddenly turned on Prince? It was always Sugar's name coming up under the "she's gotta go" category. Out of sight, out of favor?
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pasteurize
Joined: 07 Oct 2008
Posts: 623
Location: NY
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| Posted: 05/24/18 8:12 am ::: |
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| Randy wrote: |
| Why have NY fans suddenly turned on Prince? It was always Sugar's name coming up under the "she's gotta go" category. Out of sight, out of favor? |
I've been wondering this as well... If you look at her numbers, they are solidly better than Sugar's. Prince is a better shooter, better at creating her own shot, better at creating shots for others, a better ball handler, etc... In Sugar's six years in the league, her second best shooting percentage for a season (35.3%) is worse than Prince's worst shooting percentage (37.5% in 2011).
In my opinion, Prince has arguably been our second best player over the past few seasons when healthy. I'm not sure why some people are seemingly so desperate to get rid of her.
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Randy
Joined: 08 Oct 2011
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| Posted: 05/24/18 10:00 am ::: |
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| For that matter, I've never been sure why Rodgers was always mentioned as a "must go" in the past. Or Zealous before her. But, I guess NY fans think their roster is flawed and are looking for the quickest way to fix that problem.
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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root_thing
Joined: 28 Apr 2007
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Location: Underground
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| Posted: 05/24/18 10:57 am ::: |
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There are at least a couple of us Liberty fans who want to hang on to Prince. On a team that doesn't have much in the way of players who can create their own shot, Prince is the best we have. She was ineffective when she came back from injury at the end of 2016, and Rodgers was coming off a good year. So, at the beginning of last season, NY fans wanted to keep Rodgers and dump Prince. However, in 2017 Piph bounced back in the second half of the year while Suger dropped off badly. Now, Prince is the better player again.
It does come down to NY having too many players at SG. That's the best position for Prince, Rodgers, Zellous, Nurse, and Hartley. If you keep all of these players on the roster, then they either have to be forced into their second best position or they sit on the bench losing value. It's an inefficient way of deploying your talent. Meanwhile, NY can use a permanent solution at center, small forward, and point guard. Two years ago, we thought we had young players who could eventually step into those positions, but then last season they all stumbled at the same time. Consequently, you will see all kinds of trade proposals from Liberty fans because people are anxious to relieve the crowding at SG and hopefully turn those pieces into useful assets at other positions.
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basketballologist
Joined: 05 Aug 2013
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| Posted: 05/24/18 11:50 am ::: |
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Los Angeles receive:
C Imani McGee-Stafford
Atlanta receive:
G Sydney Wiese
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 63759
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| Posted: 05/24/18 11:55 am ::: |
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| basketballologist wrote: |
Los Angeles receive:
C Imani McGee-Stafford
Atlanta receive:
G Sydney Wiese |
Wisdom says ATL should at least wait until they know Wiese makes the final cut in LAS before offering something for a player they could get for free... if they even want her. ATL has already passed on a couple decent cuts so maybe they’re not looking for any more roster changes.
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J-Spoon
Joined: 31 Jan 2009
Posts: 6794
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| Posted: 05/24/18 1:08 pm ::: |
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| root_thing wrote: |
There are at least a couple of us Liberty fans who want to hang on to Prince. On a team that doesn't have much in the way of players who can create their own shot, Prince is the best we have. She was ineffective when she came back from injury at the end of 2016, and Rodgers was coming off a good year. So, at the beginning of last season, NY fans wanted to keep Rodgers and dump Prince. However, in 2017 Piph bounced back in the second half of the year while Suger dropped off badly. Now, Prince is the better player again.
It does come down to NY having too many players at SG. That's the best position for Prince, Rodgers, Zellous, Nurse, and Hartley. If you keep all of these players on the roster, then they either have to be forced into their second best position or they sit on the bench losing value. It's an inefficient way of deploying your talent. Meanwhile, NY can use a permanent solution at center, small forward, and point guard. Two years ago, we thought we had young players who could eventually step into those positions, but then last season they all stumbled at the same time. Consequently, you will see all kinds of trade proposals from Liberty fans because people are anxious to relieve the crowding at SG and hopefully turn those pieces into useful assets at other positions. |
The second paragraph pretty much sums it up for me.
Combined with a desire to shake things up a little bit. NY has stagnated at good, not really a contender but able to make the playoffs, but not able to make deep runs in the playoffs.
Add in the long term feeling that a Prince/Rodgers back-court which was the idea a couple seasons ago did not work, and that Prince has missed a good deal of time with Russian National team commitments and injuries the last few seasons. And that Hartley and Nurse seem to have more potential and upside for the future.
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calbearman76
Joined: 02 Nov 2009
Posts: 5155
Location: Carson City
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| Posted: 05/24/18 3:36 pm ::: |
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| Shades wrote: |
| basketballologist wrote: |
Los Angeles receive:
C Imani McGee-Stafford
Atlanta receive:
G Sydney Wiese |
Wisdom says ATL should at least wait until they know Wiese makes the final cut in LAS before offering something for a player they could get for free... if they even want her. ATL has already passed on a couple decent cuts so maybe they’re not looking for any more roster changes. |
Are you really giving up anything by getting rid of McGee-Stafford? But why would LA want her?
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Randy
Joined: 08 Oct 2011
Posts: 10911
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| Posted: 05/24/18 4:03 pm ::: |
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| calbearman76 wrote: |
| Shades wrote: |
| basketballologist wrote: |
Los Angeles receive:
C Imani McGee-Stafford
Atlanta receive:
G Sydney Wiese |
Wisdom says ATL should at least wait until they know Wiese makes the final cut in LAS before offering something for a player they could get for free... if they even want her. ATL has already passed on a couple decent cuts so maybe they’re not looking for any more roster changes. |
Are you really giving up anything by getting rid of McGee-Stafford? But why would LA want her? |
We could probably get Wiese (or someone just as good) when final cuts are made. Why would we get rid of our backup 5 and why would LA want her with Lavender available soon. It seems some think we should get rid or her, apparently to benefit some other team?
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mavcarter
#NATC
Joined: 02 Sep 2010
Posts: 5935
Location: Chicago
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| Posted: 05/24/18 4:32 pm ::: |
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Am I the only one that doesn't think McGee-Stafford is absolute trash? I mean, obviously she struggles with consistency and she's not a Fowles/Charles type of talent, but IMO this isn't some player that's just tall and just flat out useless. She has at least a decent skillset that can be utilized.
Unfortunately for her, it seems like its going to take the right coach, with the right system, and the rights players...
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WNBA 09
Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 12527
Location: Dallas , Texas
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| Posted: 05/24/18 4:47 pm ::: |
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| mavcarter wrote: |
Am I the only one that doesn't think McGee-Stafford is absolute trash? I mean, obviously she struggles with consistency and she's not a Fowles/Charles type of talent, but IMO this isn't some player that's just tall and just flat out useless. She has at least a decent skillset that can be utilized.
Unfortunately for her, it seems like its going to take the right coach, with the right system, and the rights players... |
Somewhere overseas
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myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008
Posts: 32335
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| Posted: 05/24/18 5:57 pm ::: |
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| mavcarter wrote: |
Am I the only one that doesn't think McGee-Stafford is absolute trash? I mean, obviously she struggles with consistency and she's not a Fowles/Charles type of talent, but IMO this isn't some player that's just tall and just flat out useless. She has at least a decent skillset that can be utilized.
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To me, very little difference between her and Hamlin.. So if you think Hamlin is useless, then I would say McGee-Stafford is useless as well. They are both tall, neither can move particularly well, both are slow up the floor, both can at least sometimes make layups, both can get some rebounds and some blocks, neither has great hands or range on their shot, neither are great at defending the pick and roll. Actually you can throw Russel into that category as well. I think they all have some use, but none will spend a lot of time on the floor.
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toad455
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
Posts: 22472
Location: NJ
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| Posted: 05/24/18 6:16 pm ::: |
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| Randy wrote: |
| Why have NY fans suddenly turned on Prince? It was always Sugar's name coming up under the "she's gotta go" category. Out of sight, out of favor? |
Rodgers is healthy. Prince not so much over the past three years.
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J-Spoon
Joined: 31 Jan 2009
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| Posted: 05/24/18 7:07 pm ::: |
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| I still like IMS my theory on her is she could develop into a strong defensive center who could get you 8 to 10 points and rebounds a night with a couple to a few blocks thrown in as a starter. The prproblem imo is she needs to get 20 to 25 minutes a night to become that player. She needs to play through her mistakes to develop and only Chicago her rookie year with Pokey was willing to give her that kind of time, and live with the mistakes
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