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Iluvacc



Joined: 11 Jun 2005
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PostPosted: 04/16/18 8:37 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

WNBA 09 wrote:
CBiebel wrote:
elsie wrote:

as long as the rules are in flux for certain schools like ND, then its all a sham....they're not even embarrassed about it....

no one can say why transfer rules are favorable to some, and punitive to others...



I assume you are suggesting the Shepard situation. It's not like she was a unique situation, as some here imply:

Leticia Romero (From KSU as Freshman in 2013-14 to FSU as sophomore in 2014-15)
Chantrice White (From Illinois as sophomore (2015-16) to FSU as junior (2016-17)
Natalie Romeo (From Nebraska (stick a pin in this part, I'll get back to it below) as a sophomore (2015-16) to Washington as a junior (2016-17)).


In all the above cases the coach had been fired (in at least 3 of the 4 (including Shepard) the coach was being investigated by the university), and the players petitioned for the exemption.

The only thing that set Shepard apart from the rest above was that she ended up playing a key role in winning a National Championship.


Heck wasnt Chatrice White with South Carolina before Illinois ?



I think you're referring to Jatarie White


tfan



Joined: 31 May 2010
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PostPosted: 04/16/18 9:18 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

FrozenLVFan wrote:
GlennMacGrady wrote:
2018 NCAA D1 Manual

12.4 Employment.

12.4.1 Criteria Governing Compensation to Student-Athletes. Compensation may be paid to a student-athlete:
(a) Only for work actually performed; and
(b) At a rate commensurate with the going rate in that locality for similar services.
12.4.1.1 Athletics Reputation. Such compensation may not include any remuneration for value or utility that the student-athlete may have for the employer because of the publicity, reputation, fame or personal following that he or she has obtained because of athletics ability.



GlennMacGrady wrote:
2018 NCAA D1 Manual

12.4 Employment.

12.5.2 Nonpermissible.

12.5.2.1 Advertisements and Promotions After Becoming a Student-Athlete. After becoming a student-athlete, an individual shall not be eligible for participation in intercollegiate athletics if the individual:
(a) Accepts any remuneration for or permits the use of his or her name or picture to advertise, recommend or promote directly the sale or use of a commercial product or service of any kind . . . .


A quick google showed that the stories and ads for DWTS don't show Arike, unlike the other celebrity contestants. She's getting a one-sentence explanation of who she is, with no photograph. I can't see how that constitutes advertising, recommendation, or promotion. Nor is it providing much value or utility to DWTS...her name is probably the least recognizable of the celebrities.


Providing less value than other contestants still falls short of not providing any value or utility.


calbearman76



Joined: 02 Nov 2009
Posts: 3137
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PostPosted: 04/16/18 10:29 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
Over 30 years ago, after the Jeremy Bloom fiasco (who was ruled ineligible for football at Colorado because he was making buckets of money as a World Cup and Olympic skier) the NCAA made it so you student-athletes are only ineligible for a sport if they accept money for that particular sport in which they are getting paid, and could continue to play other college sports.

Allowing a basketball player to get paid for a dance show doesn't strike me as all that unusual a ruling. Any more than a college football player getting paid to play professional baseball during summers, which happens frequently.


Sorry ArtBest23, but you have your facts wrong. Jeremy Bloom was ruled ineligible in 2006 and lost two years of eligibility as a football player. This was well after the NCAA changed its rules regarding earnings from another sport. He was ruled ineligible because he was making endorsement money as a result of his skiing. (Jeremy Bloom just turned 36 a few weeks ago.)

If Arike was making money as a result of her dancing ability in an event open to everyone then there would be no issue. But when the only basis upon which you are allowed to compete is because you are selected as a result of your notoriety in another athletic pursuit, the income has to be considered as related to that activity.


ArtBest23



Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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PostPosted: 04/17/18 11:53 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

calbearman76 wrote:

Sorry ArtBest23, but you have your facts wrong.


Or not. . .

If I wanted to waste the time I'm sure I could find other research that would say the same thing, but since It's quick and easy I'll just quote the Wikipedia explanation:

After a long fought battle with the NCAA to keep his skiing hopes alive for the 2006 Winter Olympics the NCAA declared him permanently ineligible, cutting short his college football career by two years. He went on to regain his #1 in the world skiing ranking in 2005 and competed for the United States in the 2006 Olympics. Two days after the 2006 Turin Olympics Bloom flew to Indianapolis to compete in the NFL Scouting Combine.

The NCAA has since changed the rules on amateurism so that student-athletes are only ineligible for a sport if they accept money for that sport. Under these rules, Bloom would be ineligible to ski for the Colorado team, but would be eligible to compete in all other sports, including football.


Not only are you wrong, but the matter was specifically put to the NCAA for a ruling, and they know you're wrong too, regardless of whatever "The NCAA Rules According to CalBearman" might say.


calbearman76



Joined: 02 Nov 2009
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PostPosted: 04/19/18 3:22 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
calbearman76 wrote:

Sorry ArtBest23, but you have your facts wrong.


Or not. . .

If I wanted to waste the time I'm sure I could find other research that would say the same thing, but since It's quick and easy I'll just quote the Wikipedia explanation:

After a long fought battle with the NCAA to keep his skiing hopes alive for the 2006 Winter Olympics the NCAA declared him permanently ineligible, cutting short his college football career by two years. He went on to regain his #1 in the world skiing ranking in 2005 and competed for the United States in the 2006 Olympics. Two days after the 2006 Turin Olympics Bloom flew to Indianapolis to compete in the NFL Scouting Combine.

The NCAA has since changed the rules on amateurism so that student-athletes are only ineligible for a sport if they accept money for that sport. Under these rules, Bloom would be ineligible to ski for the Colorado team, but would be eligible to compete in all other sports, including football.


Not only are you wrong, but the matter was specifically put to the NCAA for a ruling, and they know you're wrong too, regardless of whatever "The NCAA Rules According to CalBearman" might say.


First, you said 30 years ago, off by 18 years. Second, the rule allowing payments from other sports had already been changed. Roscoe Crosby got a more than $1 million bonus to play with the Kansas City Royals in 2001 but was still able to play football at Clemson. (The Roscoe Crosby story is a particularly sad one.) It wasn't the skiing earnings that made him ineligible; it was his endorsement income.

As for Wikipedia, I won't say for sure that they are completely wrong. It may be that the NCAA has further clarified its rules since then, but the rules of being a professional in another sport were already in place when they ruled against Bloom.


CBiebel



Joined: 23 Dec 2004
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PostPosted: 04/19/18 6:35 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The Washington Post has an article on this, debating various aspects of it:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2018/04/19/arike-ogunbowale-on-dancing-with-the-stars-forces-ncaa-into-tricky-two-step/?utm_term=.55238deb0609

This paragraph basically mirrors a comment I made earlier in this thread:

More likely than the NCAA shifting its stance on athlete compensation is the body’s desire to capitalize on Ogunbowale’s popularity and the success of the recent women’s tournament, experts said. The NCAA is allowing Ogunbowale to make money off her fame because it serves a larger purpose for the rest of the NCAA in boosting the image of women’s basketball, Ridpath said.


CBiebel



Joined: 23 Dec 2004
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PostPosted: 04/20/18 9:37 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I was just listening to a podcast where they were discussing this and a woman on the podcast talked about the various rules that they gave for Ogunbowale.

For instance, for the "behind the scenes" footage from practice, Ogunbowale is allowed to hold a basketball, but she isn't allowed to shoot it on camera. Her partner is, but not her.


ClayK



Joined: 11 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: 04/21/18 9:48 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

So if Arike Ogumbowale, or any other NCAA athlete, was allowed to make money due to her athletic ability, how exactly would that hurt the NCAA or its member schools?



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FrozenLVFan



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PostPosted: 04/21/18 9:48 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

So maybe this will be a good thing, not only in providing exposure for women's basketball, but for all the NCAA's rules.


Ex-Ref



Joined: 04 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: 04/30/18 9:17 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Starts tonight.

https://www.wthr.com/article/shot-taker-ogunbowale-set-for-dancing-with-the-stars-0



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CBiebel



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PostPosted: 04/30/18 10:56 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Ogunbowale survives to week two.


bballgrl



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PostPosted: 04/30/18 11:48 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

CBiebel wrote:
Ogunbowale survives to week two.



I did not think she danced well at all. I also don't think she will last long. The one judge, Carrie, said she had to do what they do and wear heels next week. Wonder if she will or if she will try to wear tennis shoes. Her outfit looked really out of place as did she. Maybe ND did not want her wearing those skimpy outfits which is another stable for the show.


acsuc99



Joined: 10 Jul 2013
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PostPosted: 04/30/18 11:59 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

bballgrl wrote:
CBiebel wrote:
Ogunbowale survives to week two.



I did not think she danced well at all. I also don't think she will last long. The one judge, Carrie, said she had to do what they do and wear heels next week. Wonder if she will or if she will try to wear tennis shoes. Her outfit looked really out of place as did she. Maybe ND did not want her wearing those skimpy outfits which is another stable for the show.


Seriously? That was ur big take away?

For someone who never danced before I thought she did very good. She danced better than almost everyone whose not an Olympic figure skater who needless to say have an unfair advantage. I thought she looked very pretty and appropriate. She had a very good personality for the show. When she was describing her school schedule for tomorrow it was hard not to be impressed with her. She beat out 2 people already. I gave her votes so I hope she survives another week.

"She won't last long" LOL The show is 4 weeks this season so she already made it to the halfway point,


Howee



Joined: 27 Nov 2009
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PostPosted: 05/01/18 12:23 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Yeah, not overly impressed.

Never a big fan of dwts anyways, but....Arike will do well to continue focus on what she does REALLY well. Hope she at least has fun, though--awesome experience for anybody, never mind a (relative) youngster--and the extra exposure for "our" game is always a positive.



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Ex-Ref



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PostPosted: 05/01/18 7:10 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I wondered if the tennies were ND's idea. Don't want any foot/ankle issues that high heels could cause.

I thought that was kind of a narrow-minded statement from Carrie Ann given the circumstances.



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Hoopsmom



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PostPosted: 05/01/18 7:19 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I have watched several seasons of DWTS, and I thought Arike did just fine for a non-dancer. She did way better than many that I have seen over the years. Of course skaters and gymnasts have a natural advantage, and on almost every season, an athlete wins. She had poise, and she had self-assuredness that even a few of the Hollywood and music stars lack. It will be interesting to see her next week in a slower, more ballroom type dance. I think she has natural Grace that was hard to show in a salsa.

BTW - I think it is totally unfair that the women have to wear heels and risk ankle and knee injuries because of some stupid fashion. I would not be caught dead in anything more than a half inch heel.


pilight



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PostPosted: 05/01/18 8:05 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Hoopsmom wrote:
I think it is totally unfair that the women have to wear heels and risk ankle and knee injuries because of some stupid fashion. I would not be caught dead in anything more than a half inch heel.


Ironically, heels were originally a men's fashion item



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PUmatty



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PostPosted: 05/01/18 9:13 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I don't watch this, but I wish they would have let Rippon have a male partner.


toad455



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PostPosted: 05/01/18 9:26 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The figure skaters have the advantage(Tonya, Adam & Mirai). They're used to learning choreography. I'm thinking Arike & Kareem are eliminated next week. Josh Norman was a surprise in week 1.



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toad455



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PostPosted: 05/01/18 9:28 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

PUmatty wrote:
I don't watch this, but I wish they would have let Rippon have a male partner.


It's been debated in previous seasons if a gay contestant should have a same sex partner. I doubt it'll ever happen.



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bballgrl



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PostPosted: 05/01/18 4:11 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Ex-Ref wrote:
I wondered if the tennies were ND's idea. Don't want any foot/ankle issues that high heels could cause.

I thought that was kind of a narrow-minded statement from Carrie Ann given the circumstances.


It may have been ND's idea for the reason you stated. If that is the case they should have cleared that beforehand. The women have always danced in heels and maybe they don't want just one person to have special privilages. If they give her the ok then that is fine.


StevenHW



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PostPosted: 05/02/18 8:27 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
CamrnCrz1974 wrote:
Shades wrote:
Notre Dame once again finding ways to skirt the rules.


Except for the fact that Notre Dame employees received guidance to comply with NCAA rules...

ND employees got instructions about potential NCAA violations tied to this because Arike is a student-athlete. We’re not allowed to promote her appearance, encourage votes for her on our social media accounts, or even so much as like a promotional tweet about her participation.

More from the instructions: “It is permissible to post a factual statement or wish her good luck. For example, employees can post a statement such as this: “Congrats/best wishes/good luck to Arike on DWTS!””


Skirting the rules...by issuing compliance reminders regarding said NCAA rules???


I don't understand why it's not a violation for Ogunbowale to participate. The NCAA generally doesn’t allow student-athletes to capitalize on their college fame, even to the extent of selling their own autograph or memorabilia. How is a nationally televised competition any less of a threat to amateurism?



Also, I don’t remember anyone giving Joslyn Tinkle (who was then at Stanford, albeit the season was over by then) a hard time when she appeared on The Price Is Right in 2013.

http://missoulian.com/news/local/missoula-s-joslyn-tinkle-to-come-on-down-on-price/article_709afa3e-f8b6-11e2-bac9-001a4bcf887a.html



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CBiebel



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PostPosted: 05/04/18 12:44 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

StevenHW wrote:
pilight wrote:
CamrnCrz1974 wrote:
Shades wrote:
Notre Dame once again finding ways to skirt the rules.


Except for the fact that Notre Dame employees received guidance to comply with NCAA rules...

ND employees got instructions about potential NCAA violations tied to this because Arike is a student-athlete. We’re not allowed to promote her appearance, encourage votes for her on our social media accounts, or even so much as like a promotional tweet about her participation.

More from the instructions: “It is permissible to post a factual statement or wish her good luck. For example, employees can post a statement such as this: “Congrats/best wishes/good luck to Arike on DWTS!””


Skirting the rules...by issuing compliance reminders regarding said NCAA rules???


I don't understand why it's not a violation for Ogunbowale to participate. The NCAA generally doesn’t allow student-athletes to capitalize on their college fame, even to the extent of selling their own autograph or memorabilia. How is a nationally televised competition any less of a threat to amateurism?



Also, I don’t remember anyone giving Joslyn Tinkle (who was then at Stanford, albeit the season was over by then) a hard time when she appeared on The Price Is Right in 2013.

http://missoulian.com/news/local/missoula-s-joslyn-tinkle-to-come-on-down-on-price/article_709afa3e-f8b6-11e2-bac9-001a4bcf887a.html


I'm guessing based on stuff mentioned in the article that she was a senior, so her eligibility was done.

I think the NCAA is testing the waters for loosening the rules, but of course when that happens people will mention how unfair it is when it first starts to happen because others weren't allowed to do it before them.

That's just my guess as for why the NCAA agreed to this. Personally, I was very surprised they went along with it.


toad455



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PostPosted: 05/07/18 9:21 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

SPOILER:
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Arike was eliminated tonight along with Kareem Abdul-Jabbar



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