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Nixtreefan
Joined: 14 Nov 2012
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 Posted: 04/19/18 3:57 pm ::: |
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| Not going hard wasn't her only problem, her poor shot selection and poor efficiency were worse.
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zune69
Joined: 27 May 2010
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| Posted: 04/19/18 4:02 pm ::: |
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| bballjunkie wrote: |
| Nared doesn’t go hard that’s my opinion and not going hard gets you a spot on the bench, that’s why there were certain players on the bench who some thought should have been playing. |
I totally disagree...Nared's biggest problem IMO was going too hard...Without Diamond,Nared tried to do too much on the offensive side of the ball.
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root_thing
Joined: 28 Apr 2007
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| Posted: 04/19/18 7:03 pm ::: |
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| zune69 wrote: |
And comparing the Senior seasons of Nurse/Nared's is a bit unfair...Nurse was the 5th option on UConn while Nared was 1st.Nurse got wide open looks while Nared had to create her own offense...I'd bet my life savings that if Nared/Nurse switched teams,Nared would have been the higher pick. |
Here's the thing. As I've said before, I came into the season a big Jaime Nared fan. And through January, I was still a big Jaime Nared fan. And as she struggled through February, I think I was the first one to advance the theory that she was trying too hard and that last year might have been a better indicator of her talent. But I was also watching the games. Nared was undeniably doing some really ill-advised things that were hurting her team. As a matter of fact, I think it was the Mississippi State game where Holly pulled her out because she was just forcing bad shots and bad passes all over the place. Finally, I took a good look at Jaime's career shooting stats. I also recently looked at Nurse's career shooting stats:
| Code: |
Nared FG 3PT
2014-15 37.7 22.2
2015-16 34.2 26.5
2016-17 42.3 37.8
2017-18 39.1 24.1
Career 39.0 28.8
Nurse FG 3PT
2014-15 48.6 40.8
2015-16 44.3 37.0
2016-17 48.1 46.2
2017-18 51.9 44.3
Career 48.4 42.4
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That's a big difference, year after year. I don't think you can simply explain the disparity by saying one person is the first option and the other the fifth. Nared wasn't the first option for her whole career, and I would argue that Nurse was better than the fifth option as a senior. She was the 3rd leading scorer among starters, and Stevens the 3rd overall scorer was often replacing Samuelson (#1) and Collier (#2). More to the point, Nared didn't have to take and miss all those shots early in the clock. She could have tried working the ball around. I'm willing to bet Holly's real first option in most cases was Russell. It was Jaime who often decided that she had to play heroball.
Again, I like Nared and I hope she does well. But I try to be impartial. After rooting for her all season, I had to finally believe my eyes and believe the stats. If she can bounce back under different circumstances, then great. I actually think Las Vegas is a great situation for her. Once Jefferson is healthy, they'll have very good scorers at positions 1,2,4 and 5. In earlier posts, I described Jaime as functioning like an assassin during the prior season. Sneak around and make big plays while everyone is watching DeShields and Russell. If she can get into the lineup with the Aces starters, she'll have an opportunity to play that way again. I also compared Jaime a lot to Swin Cash. For that reason, I think Laimbeer is the perfect coach for her. So, I actually feel pretty good about Jaime's prospects. I just don't think NY was the place for her. Other than Tina, the scoring is spotty. I also sincerely believe that saying Nurse had the better year is simply a statement of fact.
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Randy
Joined: 08 Oct 2011
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| Posted: 04/19/18 7:17 pm ::: |
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| Thinking of the players that have recently come out of the LV - Stricklen, Johnson, Burdick, Graves and Massengale come to mind. Only Johnson has exceeded expectations, the rest have either disappointed (Stricklen) or simply didn't show up any better as pros than as college players. I have kind of thought maybe it was their coaching, but perhaps the LV players just aren't that good. The recent record of the LV might suggest that's the case. Perhaps I'm painting with too broad of a brush but I wouldn't be surprised to see Nared and Russell going the way of Burdick and Graves.
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LibFan25
Joined: 01 Sep 2012
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| Posted: 04/19/18 7:37 pm ::: |
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| root_thing wrote: |
| zune69 wrote: |
And comparing the Senior seasons of Nurse/Nared's is a bit unfair...Nurse was the 5th option on UConn while Nared was 1st.Nurse got wide open looks while Nared had to create her own offense...I'd bet my life savings that if Nared/Nurse switched teams,Nared would have been the higher pick. |
Here's the thing. As I've said before, I came into the season a big Jaime Nared fan. And through January, I was still a big Jaime Nared fan. And as she struggled through February, I think I was the first one to advance the theory that she was trying too hard and that last year might have been a better indicator of her talent. But I was also watching the games. Nared was undeniably doing some really ill-advised things that were hurting her team. As a matter of fact, I think it was the Mississippi State game where Holly pulled her out because she was just forcing bad shots and bad passes all over the place. Finally, I took a good look at Jaime's career shooting stats. I also recently looked at Nurse's career shooting stats:
| Code: |
Nared FG 3PT
2014-15 37.7 22.2
2015-16 34.2 26.5
2016-17 42.3 37.8
2017-18 39.1 24.1
Career 39.0 28.8
Nurse FG 3PT
2014-15 48.6 40.8
2015-16 44.3 37.0
2016-17 48.1 46.2
2017-18 51.9 44.3
Career 48.4 42.4
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That's a big difference, year after year. I don't think you can simply explain the disparity by saying one person is the first option and the other the fifth. Nared wasn't the first option for her whole career, and I would argue that Nurse was better than the fifth option as a senior. She was the 3rd leading scorer among starters, and Stevens the 3rd overall scorer was often replacing Samuelson (#1) and Collier (#2). More to the point, Nared didn't have to take and miss all those shots early in the clock. She could have tried working the ball around. I'm willing to bet Holly's real first option in most cases was Russell. It was Jaime who often decided that she had to play heroball.
Again, I like Nared and I hope she does well. But I try to be impartial. After rooting for her all season, I had to finally believe my eyes and believe the stats. If she can bounce back under different circumstances, then great. I actually think Las Vegas is a great situation for her. Once Jefferson is healthy, they'll have very good scorers at positions 1,2,4 and 5. In earlier posts, I described Jaime as functioning like an assassin during the prior season. Sneak around and make big plays while everyone is watching DeShields and Russell. If she can get into the lineup with the Aces starters, she'll have an opportunity to play that way again. I also compared Jaime a lot to Swin Cash. For that reason, I think Laimbeer is the perfect coach for her. So, I actually feel pretty good about Jaime's prospects. I just don't think NY was the place for her. Other than Tina, the scoring is spotty. I also sincerely believe that saying Nurse had the better year is simply a statement of fact. |
All good points, but i'm with zune69 on this one, UCONN is just loaded to make a legit debate to me , put Nurse on that Lady Vol team this year and lets see if get those type of open shots she usually gets with UCONN.
Like i said before i like Nurse i think she is gonna help us this year but perferred Nared. i just think she's better on the eye test to me, better Handle, legit versatility and a need for us at the SF position. Nared struggled no doubt but we all seen what she can do on the highest potential/ability can be
Time will tell, the season is coming around the corner we will see, players get cut during training camp that could be available to us, everyone has their opinions on players and that's what make this board fun to read and discuss about.
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myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008
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| Posted: 04/19/18 8:30 pm ::: |
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| IMO Nurse >>>>>> Nared. ie not even close.
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J-Spoon
Joined: 31 Jan 2009
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| Posted: 04/19/18 8:48 pm ::: |
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| zune69 wrote: |
Having a difference of opinion on Rebkell now means you're being divisive?...okay  ....I guess breaking down a players shooting mechanics,scrutinizing their height,and debating how impactful they’ll be on defense in the pros is frowned upon on this website.
| J-Spoon wrote: |
You mean the fantasy trade where I'm trading Stokes, Rodgers and Hartley for Harrison and Jefferson that is a reliable source.
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@J-Spoon...I wasn’t being critical of your trade proposal/Hypothetical lineup...I was Just pointing out the starting lineup that included Nurse,even if it was a fantasy trade.
| bballjunkie wrote: |
I will take that bet. Nared would not have been a Geno type player and if she had gone to Uconn she would have transferred having sat the bench.
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Auriemma quote
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| "Jaime's really good and really talented," Auriemma said. "As is Mercedes Russell. I haven't really seen them play a lot since high school. I don't see them that often now since we don't play them. But I thought the two of them were really impressive for a lot of reasons out in Colorado. I'm not surprised that they both made the team. They were really, really good." |
J.Nared:Geno Auriemma Is 'So Dope'
https://youtu.be/N94PTS4gN-E |
I get it. TBH I would be OK with people not liking the trade
What I did kind of over react to was the idea that I was over rating Nurse because I had put her in that starting line up of the trade, when I had been pretty luke warm to drafting her in multiple posts earlier in the discussion, I questioned whether Nurse was big enough to play SF because at Uconn she played more at the 2 and the 1 than at the 3 against smaller competition than she'll face in the W and I'm a little disappointed in the selection because it will likely send L. Allen or B. Allen packing.
I don't know? If I was the GM and I was picking between Nurse and Nared I may have chosen Nared. I agree with you that Nared's downfall this year was trying too hard, I can't prove it but I think her game was better last season becuase she was playing between Deshields and Russell, I think she is a much better 3rd or 4th option than a first, and I think she has more size to play the SF instead of Nurse. I can definitely see Jaime becoming a future starter at the SF spot, she has a higher ceiling than Nurse IMO but also a lower basement. Nurse is more of a sure thing than Nared.
TBH I kind of wish we drafted Billings so we wouldn't have to cut someone from the perimeter.
With that said my assessment of Nurse has always been that she will be a solid pro, her range and defense will translate, she can mesh her game well with W talent, and will probably have a long career as a decent rotational player, and at #10 I think NY went with a safe if not exciting pick.
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WNBA 09
Joined: 26 Jun 2009
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| Posted: 04/19/18 8:58 pm ::: |
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| In my opinion Nared Over Nurse....Without question will have the longer career in this league.
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zune69
Joined: 27 May 2010
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| Posted: 04/19/18 9:12 pm ::: |
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@ root_thing...Nurse definitely was the better shooter at the college level...And she deserves credit for taking advantage of her situation.I still think it’s very difficult to predict which player,Nurse or Nared, will be the better player at the next level based on college stats without factoring in:
1.System
2.Quality of Teammates
3.Head Coach
4.Position
Nurse IMO,will have more value in the WNBA as a SG...Nared is better suited to play SF.
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toad455
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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| Posted: 04/20/18 4:29 am ::: |
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| myrtle wrote: |
| IMO Nurse >>>>>> Nared. ie not even close. |
This.
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snlMINAJ
Joined: 21 Jan 2010
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| Posted: 04/20/18 4:44 am ::: |
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| i was really hoping for vivians/brown but id take nurse over nared any day.
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bballjunkie
Joined: 12 Aug 2014
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| Posted: 04/20/18 5:17 am ::: |
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[quote="zune69"][quote="bballjunkie"]Nared doesn’t go hard that’s my opinion and not going hard gets you a spot on the bench, that’s why there were certain players on the bench who some thought should have been playing.[/quote]
I totally disagree...Nared's biggest problem IMO was going too hard...Without Diamond,Nared tried to do too much on the offensive side of the ball.[/quote]
You are confusing going hard with forcing the game. This is what I was referring to. Forcing the game and taking bad shots, does not mean you are playing all out and that is just my opinion based on the way Uconn players have to play.
Is the daughter of the Mystics coach an asst at Miss St?
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
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| Posted: 04/20/18 9:38 am ::: |
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At a certain point, production must occur.
It is possible that Nared, for whatever reason, was limited in a roster full of Mickey's Girls, and tried to do too much. It's possible that she will shoot better at the next level, even though the arc is further from the basket.
It is possible that she will take advantage of her physical gifts after four years of not doing so (which look to me like a missed four years of development).
It is possible that Nurse will crash and burn, and her shooting numbers, to take a measurable, will crater once she's in the WNBA.
But Nurse can get worse statistically and still be productive; Nared must get better to be productive -- and how often do college players get better in the WNBA?
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root_thing
Joined: 28 Apr 2007
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| Posted: 04/20/18 9:56 am ::: |
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Here's the problem with saying Nurse was surrounded by better talent, thereby making it easier for her to succeed. That argument is both too widely applicable and totally unprovable. It's like saying if I could switch places with someone who was born rich, I'd be doing well and they'd be struggling. It may very well be true, but nowhere near certain. Furthermore, it's applicable to millions of people. The assertion is too general to be useful. Applying it to the same two teams, we could just as easily argue that Mercedes Russell would be the #6 pick and Azura Stevens the #22 pick if Russell had played for UConn and Stevens had ended up at Tennessee. Or what would have happened if Gabby Williams had played for Baylor and Nina Davis for UConn? Maybe Davis goes 1st Round last year and Gabby goes undrafted this season? And why limit it to UConn? What if Loryn Goodwin played for Duke and Lexie Brown for Oklahoma State? What if Cierra Dillard landed at Notre Dame and circumstances led Arike Ogunbowole to Buffalo? You can make this fortunate son (daughter) argument all day long.
People are insinuating that Nurse just rode the coattails of her teammates. It's not like everyone who goes to UConn automatically gets playing time or becomes a starter. Look at this year's HoopGurlz #1 recruit, Megan Walker. Not only did she struggle to get meaningful minutes, Walker at times barely got into the game. Azura Stevens had to come off the bench despite having great talent and past success in a P5 conference. Future pros like Charde Houston and Kiah Stokes never earned permanent starting roles at UConn. In contrast, Kia Nurse became a starter in the 3rd game of her freshman year. Geno doesn't put people on the court who don't understand his system or know where they're supposed to be on the floor. That says a lot about Nurse's high basketball IQ and her maturity at a young age. And it's not like Kia hasn't done anything outside of UConn. After her freshman season, she joined Team Canada and scored 33 points to lead them to gold over the United States at the Pan Am Games final. She was only 19 at the time. If Kia were European, Paul Nilsen would've been falling all over himself clamoring for Nurse to be the #1 pick in the draft. 
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TotalCardinalMove
Joined: 13 Oct 2013
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| Posted: 04/20/18 10:47 am ::: |
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| Nared has never shot the ball well consistently in 4 years at Tennessee. She was not the first option her entire career. Nurse broke the starting lineup at UConn her freshman year because she excels at defense. Her defense has nothing to do with how well her teammates perform offensively. What’s something Nared does exceptionally well?
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mavcarter
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Joined: 02 Sep 2010
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| Posted: 04/20/18 11:01 am ::: |
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| TotalCardinalMove wrote: |
| Nared has never shot the ball well consistently in 4 years at Tennessee. |
This is why I was wondering if someone can tell me what she does well. Is she athletic with slashing capabilities?_________________
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| Or maybe said poster should quit being a nuisance when people don’t agree? |
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zune69
Joined: 27 May 2010
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zune69
Joined: 27 May 2010
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| Posted: 04/20/18 11:26 am ::: |
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| mavcarter wrote: |
This is why I was wondering if someone can tell me what she does well. Is she athletic with slashing capabilities? |
At 6'2,Nared can handle the ball,slash to the basket,shoot the mid-range jump shot,post up smaller players,and hit the 3.She's a very good rebounder(7.3)...and has great anticipation/hands(2.1 spg)...Nared also gets to the FT line at a high rate (206 attempts)...J.Nared is a versatile basketball player who has the size,length,speed,and athletic ability to be a very good WNBA player for many,many years.
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TotalCardinalMove
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| Posted: 04/20/18 11:37 am ::: |
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| zune69 wrote: |
| mavcarter wrote: |
This is why I was wondering if someone can tell me what she does well. Is she athletic with slashing capabilities? |
At 6'2,Nared can handle the ball,slash to the basket,shoot the mid-range jump shot,post up smaller players,and hit the 3.She's a very good rebounder(7.3)...and has great anticipation/hands(2.1 spg)...Nared also gets to the FT line at a high rate (206 attempts)...J.Nared is a versatile basketball player who has the size,length,speed,and athletic ability to be a very good WNBA player for many,many years. |
Yes, she can do all this while shooting below 40% overall, and 28% for her career from 3. I don’t think you can list 3point shooter to her list of skills. And she isn’t that great of an individual defender either. Watch any of her games against Stanford, Missouri, and Mississippi State. Vivians and Cunningham bullied her all game, and if she had trouble staying in front of those two.... and I like Nared, but you’re doing way too much to make a point when her production didn’t match. Yes, she was alright her junior year, but you can argue she was the third option and the shooting numbers still aren’t great. They were just decent. No one is denying she has tools, but in four years she never put it all together. Nothing wrong with saying that. If you think Nurse will be a role player, are you saying Nared will be more than that? She is good at slashing and drawing fouls, but will she get several calls over and over in her favor in the pros?
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Nixtreefan
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WNBA 09
Joined: 26 Jun 2009
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| Posted: 04/20/18 11:49 am ::: |
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| zune69 wrote: |
| mavcarter wrote: |
This is why I was wondering if someone can tell me what she does well. Is she athletic with slashing capabilities? |
At 6'2,Nared can handle the ball,slash to the basket,shoot the mid-range jump shot,post up smaller players,and hit the 3.She's a very good rebounder(7.3)...and has great anticipation/hands(2.1 spg)...Nared also gets to the FT line at a high rate (206 attempts)...J.Nared is a versatile basketball player who has the size,length,speed,and athletic ability to be a very good WNBA player for many,many years. |
+1 Lets just wait til the season starts to see who will be the better player. Then re-visit this topic once its obvious.
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zune69
Joined: 27 May 2010
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| Posted: 04/20/18 11:52 am ::: |
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| TotalCardinalMove wrote: |
| zune69 wrote: |
| mavcarter wrote: |
This is why I was wondering if someone can tell me what she does well. Is she athletic with slashing capabilities? |
At 6'2,Nared can handle the ball,slash to the basket,shoot the mid-range jump shot,post up smaller players,and hit the 3.She's a very good rebounder(7.3)...and has great anticipation/hands(2.1 spg)...Nared also gets to the FT line at a high rate (206 attempts)...J.Nared is a versatile basketball player who has the size,length,speed,and athletic ability to be a very good WNBA player for many,many years. |
Yes, she can do all this while shooting below 40%, while being a less than average individual defender. Watch any of her games against Stanford, Missouri, and Mississippi State. Vivians and Cunningham bullied her all game, and if she had trouble staying in front of those two.... and I like Nared, but you’re doing way too much to make a point when her production didn’t match. Yes, she was alright her junior year, but you can argue she was the third option and the shooting numbers still aren’t great. They were just decent. No one is denying she has tools, but in four years she never put it all together. Nothing wrong with saying that. If you think Nurse will be a role player, are you saying Nared will be more than that? |
..Absolutely no context...
Vivians is a 5'11 SG...Cunningham is a PF...Nared is a SF...Teams game planned for Nared.....Defenses collapsed on Nared...When teams are game planning for UConn.The first four names on the board are Gabby,Collier,Samuelson,and Stevens.
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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| Posted: 04/20/18 11:55 am ::: |
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| zune69 wrote: |
| The pressure of being the #1 option got to Nared.At one point during the season, Nared was getting booed by Lady Vol fans.I just think she folded under the pressure. |
This is a strong selling point for Nared?
| zune69 wrote: |
| Some people forget that Nurse struggled at the start of the 2016-17 season after being named the #7th best player in the Country by ESPN...I believe the two things that really helped Nurse break out of her funk was 1.Not having to be the #1 option...and 2.Having a great Coach...Nared did not have this luxury. |
DeShields always struggled and yet you think she's the bee's knees. Anybody who plays for Tennessee gets a pass?
| zune69 wrote: |
| Nurse will be a very good role player...And should make a couple of All-Defensive teams as a shooting guard...I just think Nared will be the better overall player at the next level. |
Projecting WNBA All-defensive team for Nurse, and yet other people are overrating her defense? Okay.
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zune69
Joined: 27 May 2010
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| Posted: 04/20/18 12:14 pm ::: |
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| Shades wrote: |
| zune69 wrote: |
| The pressure of being the #1 option got to Nared.At one point during the season, Nared was getting booed by Lady Vol fans.I just think she folded under the pressure. |
This is a strong selling point for Nared?
| zune69 wrote: |
| Some people forget that Nurse struggled at the start of the 2016-17 season after being named the #7th best player in the Country by ESPN...I believe the two things that really helped Nurse break out of her funk was 1.Not having to be the #1 option...and 2.Having a great Coach...Nared did not have this luxury. |
DeShields always struggled and yet you think she's the bee's knees. Anybody who plays for Tennessee gets a pass?
| zune69 wrote: |
| Nurse will be a very good role player...And should make a couple of All-Defensive teams as a shooting guard...I just think Nared will be the better overall player at the next level. |
Projecting WNBA All-defensive team for Nurse, and yet other people are overrating her defense? Okay. |
1.Because Nared won't be the #1,2,or 3 option.Nared can play off of her teammates instead of them playing off of her.
2.I've seen Diamond dominate basketball games.
3.My position has not changed one bit.I clearly stated that people are overrating Nurse if they expect her to play the SF position.Nurse will not make the ADT as a Small Forward...As a Shooting Guard? Yes.
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toad455
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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| Posted: 04/20/18 12:14 pm ::: |
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| This thread has turned into a Nared vs. Nurse thread. Can we get back to the Liberty please?!?!?
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