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myrtle



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PostPosted: 04/13/18 8:31 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

You forgot Sugar.



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basketballologist



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PostPosted: 04/13/18 8:38 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

myrtle wrote:
You forgot Sugar.



Sure did. My bad

Depth Chart:

PG:
1. Bria Hartley
2. Brittany Boyd
3. Lindsay Allen

SG:
1. Epiphanny Prince
2. Sugar Rodgers
3. Shay Murphy
4. Kelly Faris

SF:
1. Shavonte Zellous
2. Kia Nurse
3. Rebecca Allen
4. Leslie Robinson

PF:
1. Tina Charles
2. Kiah Stokes
3. Reshanda Gray
4. Jillian Alleyne

C:
1. Kia Vaughn
2. Mercedes Russell
3. Amanda Zahui B
4. Rachel Hollivay


NYL_WNBA_FAN



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PostPosted: 04/14/18 8:54 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The discussion of Nurse’s height is overkill. Someone said 5’9” or 5’10”? Laughing

In every pic I’ve seen where Nurse and Gabby Williams are standing or sitting straight up Nurse is taller. In Root’s picture Nurse is at least an inch taller than Taurasi if not two. She definitely has SF height for the WNBA. And length. And hops. The question is does she have the weight. But I like her guarding Angel. I like her guarding Stricklen. I like her guarding any of DT, EDD or Bonner more so than any of the options we put out there last year.

I also think people may be forgetting one thing. Nurse and Zellous can play at the same time. Both have guard skills. If Boyd is out to start the season then we will probably see pockets of time where Piph plays the 1 spot. Not to mention if something happens to any of Piph, Sugar, L. Allen, Hartley or Z, Nurse immediately moves into a 20-30 mpg situation.

Regarding Bec, I’m not thrilled with going with only two people at SF, but what has she shown? Her game has not developed in two seasons. I guarantee any team who’s scouted her knows what her game consists of because it’s almost always two things. Shoot an open 3 or dribble once to the left, pull up and shoot...and miss. She can’t pass, she can’t handle and her defense is ok but nothing more.

Russell I see as a lot like Jantel Lavender as a rookie. Good offense, not much D. Quick, long, athletic. Decent out to 18 feet but as a rookie will probably do more work near the basket. And her game is projectible to Lavender’s today also in that her face-up ability is good enough to improve her range if you give her a few years. She probably won’t play much but will be a nice change of pace in situations where we need offense or a little more height.

Also, good offense helps your D more than vice versa. Making shots means less transition D. It means getting less tired. Also Stokes and Vaughn can’t really guard players like Fowles and Griner anyway. Getting another offensive threat on the floor...which impacts the whole offense...at times outweighs defense. I’m not saying play Russell 25 minutes. Just saying that there are times where she will definitely serve a function we haven’t had.



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Last edited by NYL_WNBA_FAN on 04/16/18 5:04 am; edited 2 times in total
J-Spoon



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PostPosted: 04/15/18 5:21 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

based on reading some of the post draft responses could this be the team in 2018

Hartley/L. Allen/Boyd (until healthy)
Prince/Rodgers (I would start Rodgers and let Prince be the 1st option on the 2nd unit)
Zelous/Nurse
Chalres/Gray
Stokes/Vaughn/Russell

This seems a little more balanced, Stokes or Vaughn can also play some 4, but it basically gives up two young players with potential that we've been developing.

Also did our trade window close with the draft or could someone see something happening before opening day?

Also could Gray play some 3? I realize she doesn't have any range, but if she was on the court with shooters could she be a slashing/post up wing and defend the bigger SFs in the league?

On a different not Bria Hartley was the top scorer in the Turkish league regular season this year and that league has a lot of great WNBA players so maybe she'll be bringing that scoring touch back to NY.


myrtle



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PostPosted: 04/15/18 5:45 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

J-Spoon wrote:


Also could Gray play some 3? I realize she doesn't have any range, but if she was on the court with shooters could she be a slashing/post up wing and defend the bigger SFs in the league?



Unless she has changed her skill set a whole lot since college, she has no range and no handle so no, I can't imagine she could make a SF anyway anytime. I really doubt she makes the team.



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“Try to be a rainbow in someone's cloud.”
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SO ...I lost a bet with Rock about how many wins Chicago would get this year. My punishment - T. Young as my avatar. Well it could be worse!
root_thing



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PostPosted: 04/15/18 7:01 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Gray played center in college and is basically a low post banger. She can slide over to PF, but using her at SF is a major stretch.

I could see management making some more moves, especially as cutdown day approaches and other teams look to unload their excess depth. However, combo forwards are hard to find. Washington currently has both Dev Peters and Myisha Hines-Allen as quick PFs, which is a bit redundant. If they're willing to part with MHA in a trade, she would work as a potential combo forward. Myisha is another local player (Montclair NJ) which seems to be a recent Liberty trend.

More likely the team will live with being thin at SF and make an emergency move when necessary. At the risk of sounding like a broken record, there are only 144 rosters spots in the WNBA. Teams can always find people floating around who can fill out their bench almost as well as existing players. You can even keep R. Allen or Zahui B in that 12th slot if you feel strongly about them. If an injury occurs or you find some other unmet need that has to be addressed, a move could be made at that time.



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Even now by the gate with your long hair blowing
And the colors of the day that lie along your arms
You must barter your life to make sure you are living
And the crowd that has come
You give them the colors
And the bells and wind and the dream
Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 04/15/18 9:30 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

J-Spoon wrote:
based on reading some of the post draft responses could this be the team in 2018

Hartley/L. Allen/Boyd (until healthy)
Prince/Rodgers (I would start Rodgers and let Prince be the 1st option on the 2nd unit)
Zelous/Nurse
Chalres/Gray
Stokes/Vaughn/Russell

This seems a little more balanced, Stokes or Vaughn can also play some 4, but it basically gives up two young players with potential that we've been developing.

Also did our trade window close with the draft or could someone see something happening before opening day?

Also could Gray play some 3? I realize she doesn't have any range, but if she was on the court with shooters could she be a slashing/post up wing and defend the bigger SFs in the league?

On a different not Bria Hartley was the top scorer in the Turkish league regular season this year and that league has a lot of great WNBA players so maybe she'll be bringing that scoring touch back to NY.


Your projected roster--with Rebecca Allen and Zahui B. not making the team--seems a reasonable guess to me. Perhaps one of them ahead of Gray. Perhaps someone released by another team ahead of R. Allen, Zahui B., or Gray.

It's so hard to guess at any of this--including whether there could still be a trade--since we have so little idea of who is actually making roster decisions. And since we know so little about Katie Smith's approach as a head coach. Or how she feels about all the Liberty players (including Boyd) she's already worked with who could be on this year's team.

I don't believe we'll know all that much until (a) we get to the end of training camp and see which 11 players (+ Boyd) remain on the roster; and (b) we've watched about 10 regular-season games to see who Smith plays, at what positions, for how many minutes, at what points in the game, and what her general approach is as a head coach.



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Let's remember Anucha Browne, who was sexually harassed by Isiah Thomas. In recent years, she served as a vice president of the NCAA focusing on women's basketball championships. Now she is part of the Senior Management Team of UNICEF USA.
NYL_WNBA_FAN



Joined: 28 May 2007
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PostPosted: 04/15/18 10:10 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I'm not sure of anything except that these are all good points and all reasonable guesses. And one other thing. That Zahui and Bec are on notice. Remembering Bill saying Zahui didn't know the plays after the Columbia exhibition game and seeing Bec not improve any facets of her game last year. This year numerous post players have been added, who will either make the team or compete with Zahui for a spot. Same with Nurse, who definitely will make the team, and Robinson, who almost certainly will not, but nonetheless will compete with Allen. Kelly Faris is also a big guard/SF type.

No PGs or SGs have been added unless you count Nurse as a 2. That suggests to me that the Libs are pretty satisfied with Hartley and Lindsay Allen. Or that they intend to use Piph at the 1 at times, something that didn't work well last year but might this year if Nurse is on the floor at the same time. Whatever it is (probably mostly Hartley/L. Allen), they seem happy with their PG situation because no moves have been made in that area. Makes me think they'd have taken Vadeeva over Brown had Nurse gone 9th. Or maybe Nared would have been their choice.

My personal guess is that one of Zahui or Bec make the team. No way they both do IMO. But one probably will. I'd lean Zahui. I don't think Gray will make the team. She's even more one-dimensional than Zahui.



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NYL_WNBA_FAN



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PostPosted: 04/15/18 10:21 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

On another note here's how I see the league right now:

1) LA
2) MIN
3) PHX
4) CT
Tie 5th) NY
Tie 5th) ATL
7) LV
Cool SEA
9) DC
10) DAL
11) IND
12) CHI

Right now everyone loves Dallas. I don't. They finish in the bottom third in D every year with or without Cambage. I don't see how that changes this year even with all the offensive talent. And you need D to win close games. I do think the difference between 5 and 10 could be just 2 or 3 games though. There's a lot of parity after the top 3. Libs could finish 18-16 and still finish 5th. Things could also fall right in the sense they could get a major contribution from Nurse and win their usual 21-23. That remains to be seen. It's hard to pick them higher than 5th or 6th without seeing how their style of play changes and what the lineups are. I do think they could finish as high as 3 if things go right though. And this time around, they'd have another 3 point shooter. In a one-game elimination, that's extremely important. The inferior perimeter team loses an elimination game more than half the time, IMO. Being able to create perimeter offense is important in playoff games.



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Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 04/16/18 12:37 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Its now mid-April and I continue to wonder: what will Katie Smith be like as a WNBA head coach? Obviously there's no track record to draw on other than her work in lesser positions under Bill Laimbeer. Any thoughts or guesses as to what Smith may be like in this new role?



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Let's remember Anucha Browne, who was sexually harassed by Isiah Thomas. In recent years, she served as a vice president of the NCAA focusing on women's basketball championships. Now she is part of the Senior Management Team of UNICEF USA.
root_thing



Joined: 28 Apr 2007
Posts: 4449
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PostPosted: 04/16/18 1:40 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I view this as an orderly succession, similar to Stephanie White replacing Linn Dunn 3-4 years ago, rather than a disruptive coaching change. As such, you would expect a number of things to remain the same. Since the defense has worked well for the last three years, I'm guessing that system and philosophy will stay in place. Where Smith is more likely to put her stamp on the team is with offensive changes. However, it's important to remember that the Liberty already overhauled their offense last season. I don't know how much of that effort was based on ideas from Katie, but if she had significant input then maybe even the offense will be similar. At the very least, Smith will likely make alterations to account for changes in personnel.



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Even now by the gate with your long hair blowing
And the colors of the day that lie along your arms
You must barter your life to make sure you are living
And the crowd that has come
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NYL_WNBA_FAN



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PostPosted: 04/16/18 10:42 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

You have to wonder...if Laimbeer was still the coach would Nared have been the choice? Not only is she a big SF, but she's a penetrator who got to the foul line a lot in college. That's the kind of skill set he typically prefers. In turn, that would make one wonder whether Smith's plan was to alter the offensive structure to a more balanced one.



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NYL_WNBA_FAN



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PostPosted: 04/16/18 10:42 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

You have to wonder...if Laimbeer was still the coach would Nared have been the choice over Nurse? Not only is she a big SF, but she's a penetrator who got to the foul line a lot in college. That's the kind of skill set he typically prefers. In turn, that would make one wonder whether Smith's plan is to alter the offensive structure to a more balanced one.



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LibFan25



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PostPosted: 04/16/18 11:33 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:
You have to wonder...if Laimbeer was still the coach would Nared have been the choice? Not only is she a big SF, but she's a penetrator who got to the foul line a lot in college. That's the kind of skill set he typically prefers. In turn, that would make one wonder whether Smith's plan was to alter the offensive structure to a more balanced one.


I think they might have concerns about Boyd .Cuz why would they go with another guard? They possibly just went best player available but you right it makes you wonder if Bill was still here would go with "need"(SF) then best available.


root_thing



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PostPosted: 04/17/18 12:25 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I'm not convinced things would be different. Nurse has enough height to play SF even though it's not her natural position. Without overthinking it, Nurse had a good year and Nared didn't. I came into the season a big Jaime Nared fan, but to be perfectly honest she had a bad year and was particularly bad against good teams. It wasn't only that she missed shots, she took a lot of ill-advised shots -- like three-pointers early in the clock even though she only shot 24% from deep this season. Yes, it could be that Jaime was trying too hard to carry her team, but the bottom line is she played a lot of dumb basketball. I'm sure that got a lot of coaches wondering.

As for penetrating, Nared typically forced her way to the basket. It's not like she has slick crossover or hesitation moves. So, I'd take those 206 free throws with a grain of salt. I'm not convinced Jaime would get the calls at the next level. It reminds me that Trudi Lacey drafted both LaSondra Barrett and Natalie Novosel in the first round of 2012. Barrett got to the line 236 times and Novosel 199 in their senior years. However, Lasondra never made it out of training camp and Natalie only lasted one season. Interestingly, Barrett was athletically similar to Nared: a versatile, mobile 6-2 player. She started the year at PF, but ended up playing point when LSU's PG went down for the season. Anyway, getting to the line in college is not necessarily translatable... although it's certainly easier to trust Bill Laimbeer's judgement compared to Trudi Lacey's. Smile



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Even now by the gate with your long hair blowing
And the colors of the day that lie along your arms
You must barter your life to make sure you are living
And the crowd that has come
You give them the colors
And the bells and wind and the dream
toad455



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PostPosted: 04/17/18 8:42 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

In terms of talent & best available, I'm glad we picked Nurse. Was never high on Nared.



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J-Spoon



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PostPosted: 04/17/18 9:49 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

So upon further review I've got nine locks

Hartley/Boyd
Prince/Rodgers
Zelous/Nurse
Charles
Stokes/Vaughn

with
closer to making it than not making it
L. Allen
Russell

in the middle
Zahui B
B. Allen

fighting their way in from the outside
Gray
Alleyne
Faris
S. Murphy
Holivay

I still think there might be some people on the waiver wire who could leap into the mix, and I'm still waiting for the trade that shakes things up, but not counting on it.




Last edited by J-Spoon on 04/18/18 1:28 am; edited 1 time in total
Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 04/17/18 10:02 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

J-Spoon wrote:
So upon further review I've got nine locks

Hartley/Boyd
Prince/Rodgers
Zelous/Nurse
Charles
Stokes/Vaughn

with
closer to making it than not making it
L. Allen
Russell

in the middle
Zahui B
B. Allen

fighting their way in from the outside
Gray
Alleyne
Faris

I still think there might be some people on the waiver wire who could leap into the mix, and I'm still waiting for the trade that shakes things up, but not counting on it.


Barring something quite unexpected, I believe you've got this right. As for player #12, I view that as a crap shoot. Probably Zahui B. or Rebecca Allen; possibly Gray, Alleyne, or Faris; possibly someone from the waiver wire; possibly a fringe player on another team's roster who can be acquired at a reasonably low cost.

I'd be very surprised if there is a major trade, though I'd guess that the Liberty are still exploring whether they can get a good return on trading Prince or Rodgers.



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Let's remember Anucha Browne, who was sexually harassed by Isiah Thomas. In recent years, she served as a vice president of the NCAA focusing on women's basketball championships. Now she is part of the Senior Management Team of UNICEF USA.
Shades



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PostPosted: 04/17/18 10:06 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

J-Spoon wrote:
So upon further review I've got nine locks

Hartley/Boyd
Prince/Rodgers
Zelous/Nurse
Charles
Stokes/Vaughn

with
closer to making it than not making it
L. Allen
Russell

in the middle
Zahui B
B. Allen

fighting their way in from the outside
Gray
Alleyne
Faris

I still think there might be some people on the waiver wire who could leap into the mix, and I'm still waiting for the trade that shakes things up, but not counting on it.


What do you think of Rachel Hollivay and Shay Murphy?



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J-Spoon



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PostPosted: 04/17/18 10:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I've been trying to think of a mega trade that could shake things up the best I could come up with was (I'm not saying I want this, or it could happen, just trying to really think outside the box but still work with some reality.)

Stokes, Rodgers and Hartley (originally I was thinking Boyd our injured PG for yours but I though Hartley would make it seem more appealing to Laimbeer) for Harrison and Jefferson

Jefferson/Boyd/L. Allen
Zelous/Prince
Nurse/B. Allen
Charles/Zahui B
Harrison/Vaughn/Russell

Hartley/Plum/Colson
McBride/Rodgers
Young/Burdick
Wilson/Stokes
Bone/Swords/Park




Last edited by J-Spoon on 04/17/18 11:37 pm; edited 2 times in total
J-Spoon



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PostPosted: 04/17/18 10:16 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
J-Spoon wrote:
So upon further review I've got nine locks

Hartley/Boyd
Prince/Rodgers
Zelous/Nurse
Charles
Stokes/Vaughn

with
closer to making it than not making it
L. Allen
Russell

in the middle
Zahui B
B. Allen

fighting their way in from the outside
Gray
Alleyne
Faris

I still think there might be some people on the waiver wire who could leap into the mix, and I'm still waiting for the trade that shakes things up, but not counting on it.


What do you think of Rachel Hollivay and Shay Murphy?


Crap I forgot them, they can be added to trying to fight their way in.

I've always liked Murphy I just don't see her beating out Prince, Rodgers, Hartley, Nurse or Zelous.

Holivay will have to do a lot to get past Russell I think the risk/reward with Russell is very appealing to roll the dice on. If Russell is out Holivay would still have to outshine Alleyne or Gray but who knows?


root_thing



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PostPosted: 04/18/18 12:40 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Hollivay and Murphy were available all along. The fact that they got signed last tells you where they are in the pecking order. I could've gone for Murphy maybe 3 years ago. Now at 33, she would need to be clearly better than the younger players to beat them out.

I'm not expecting a major trade, but over the years we've gotten Mitchell, Hollingsworth, Rodgers, Schimmel and Zahui B in firesale deals near cutdown day. I see some potential crowding situations on a couple of teams that could lead to moves like that.



_________________
Even now by the gate with your long hair blowing
And the colors of the day that lie along your arms
You must barter your life to make sure you are living
And the crowd that has come
You give them the colors
And the bells and wind and the dream
Shades



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: 04/18/18 1:03 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

J-Spoon wrote:

Stokes, Rodgers and Hartley (originally I was thinking Boyd our injured PG for yours but I though Hartley would make it seem more appealing to Laimbeer) for Harrison and Jefferson

Jefferson/Boyd/L. Allen
Zelous/Prince
Nurse/B. Allen
Charles/Zahui B
Harrison/Vaughn/Russell


You love LAllen so much, this is your way of starting her.



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J-Spoon



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PostPosted: 04/18/18 1:22 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
J-Spoon wrote:

Stokes, Rodgers and Hartley (originally I was thinking Boyd our injured PG for yours but I though Hartley would make it seem more appealing to Laimbeer) for Harrison and Jefferson

Jefferson/Boyd/L. Allen
Zelous/Prince
Nurse/B. Allen
Charles/Zahui B
Harrison/Vaughn/Russell


You love LAllen so much, this is your way of starting her.


Nah, I just wanted to do something dramatic after doing my very realistic take on the team roster. It is clearly an exercise in fantasy GMing, while trying to keep things slightly realistic.

TBH my first draft of the trade was Stokes, Rodgers and Laimbeer's choice of Boyd or L. Allen (We all know Bill likes his retreads and a PG who can already run the system might seem appealing) but I switched it to Hartley in an attempt to up the ante from NY's side and avoid accusations of a lop sided homer trade.

I do like Jefferson and have been trying to get her while she might come at a cheaper price. MoJeff would be the starting PG in NY for a long time to come when she is healthy. Harrison seems very attainable at the moment and would probably be the best scoring post NY has had in the Charles era to play alongside Tina.

And while I realize a couple of my comments of late might make me seem like a huge L. Allen fan, my overall assessment is that she is a very good back up PG. Someone who is a reliable ball handler and a good defender, but someone whose game is limited by her lack of a long range shot, and her lack of offense. Though I do think she can improve in those areas, and I think most teams would benefit from having a player like her on board. While I'm usually more drawn to the flashy "It" factor type of players, I also have a place in my heart for the hard working, blue collar type of players, teams need both to be successful.


Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 04/18/18 8:26 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

J-Spoon wrote:
Shades wrote:
J-Spoon wrote:

Stokes, Rodgers and Hartley (originally I was thinking Boyd our injured PG for yours but I though Hartley would make it seem more appealing to Laimbeer) for Harrison and Jefferson

Jefferson/Boyd/L. Allen
Zelous/Prince
Nurse/B. Allen
Charles/Zahui B
Harrison/Vaughn/Russell


You love LAllen so much, this is your way of starting her.


Nah, I just wanted to do something dramatic after doing my very realistic take on the team roster. It is clearly an exercise in fantasy GMing, while trying to keep things slightly realistic.

TBH my first draft of the trade was Stokes, Rodgers and Laimbeer's choice of Boyd or L. Allen (We all know Bill likes his retreads and a PG who can already run the system might seem appealing) but I switched it to Hartley in an attempt to up the ante from NY's side and avoid accusations of a lop sided homer trade.

I do like Jefferson and have been trying to get her while she might come at a cheaper price. MoJeff would be the starting PG in NY for a long time to come when she is healthy. Harrison seems very attainable at the moment and would probably be the best scoring post NY has had in the Charles era to play alongside Tina.

And while I realize a couple of my comments of late might make me seem like a huge L. Allen fan, my overall assessment is that she is a very good back up PG. Someone who is a reliable ball handler and a good defender, but someone whose game is limited by her lack of a long range shot, and her lack of offense. Though I do think she can improve in those areas, and I think most teams would benefit from having a player like her on board. While I'm usually more drawn to the flashy "It" factor type of players, I also have a place in my heart for the hard working, blue collar type of players, teams need both to be successful.


As a fan of Lindsay Allen, I'm puzzled that some people (not you) write as if the limitations in her offensive game are permanent. They may be proven right over time, no question. But we can't know that yet. Last season she was a rookie point guard (a very difficult challenge), she was cut at the end of training camp (that couldn't have helped), and then brought back. Could she have asserted herself more offensively while in the court? Maybe, but we don't know what Bill Laimbeer was telling her and asking of her. And many players take time to reach their full potential as professionals.

I believe she'll be on the team this season and will get enough minutes, at least for a good while, to show if she can take a step forward. I think she will.



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Let's remember Anucha Browne, who was sexually harassed by Isiah Thomas. In recent years, she served as a vice president of the NCAA focusing on women's basketball championships. Now she is part of the Senior Management Team of UNICEF USA.
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