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PRballer



Joined: 18 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: 04/13/18 9:13 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
I have talked to Whalen, albeit a long time ago, and she was not a good interview.

But your points about the lack of downside are good ones, assuming that there's enough local talent to win some games -- because sooner or later, and mostly sooner, you have to win to recruit talent.

Not being on the road to recruit during the summer is also an issue, especially now that the fall viewing period is gone. Whalen needs to be in about 20 places at once this spring, but she's nothing if not a warrior, so as pointed out, there's a reward that goes with the risk.

Again, though, are there enough Minnesota/regional girls who will come to Minnesota because of Whalen to go .500 in the Big 10?


Have you watched her interviews recently? She’s definitely come into her own don’t you think?

I hope she’s successful at Minnesota 👍🏻


greatgator



Joined: 20 Dec 2012
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PostPosted: 04/14/18 3:02 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

PRballer wrote:


Have you watched her interviews recently? She’s definitely come into her own don’t you think?

I hope she’s successful at Minnesota 👍🏻


Her first interview as coach

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0VOhbXtwlk


tfan



Joined: 31 May 2010
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PostPosted: 04/15/18 6:56 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Whalen is a gamble, but any assistant coach getting their first head coaching job is also a gamble since you have nothing to go on other than how they sound in an interview and any references with regard to assistant coaching, which is a huge dropoff from being able to look at how they did at a previous head coaching job(s). They may deserve a significant amount of credit for what a previous team did while they were an assistant (and that success is always mentioned on their roster page) but it would take inside knowledge (biased to some degree) from players and other coaches to really know.

Recruiting is a large part of how successful a college coach will be, and I would think that former pro players would have an advantage, with former pro stars having an even bigger advantage. But I don't know if it worked/works that way for ex-pros like Cynthia Cooper, Jennifer Azzi, and Jennifer Rizzotti (and others), or whether the degree to which you were a star matters. Staley has gotten good recruits and transfers at South Carolina. Not sure how she did at Temple. Whalen doesn't have any charisma in interviews, but her teammates have made favorable comments about her locker room personality, so maybe she can use "jock charm" to get young high school jocks to want to play for her, and then keep them happy once enrolled.


LitePal



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PostPosted: 04/15/18 9:58 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

[/quote]

Her first interview as coach

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0VOhbXtwlk[/url][/quote]

Uh, that was, ah, very, uh, unimpressive and, uh, not very, ah, motivating.


justintyme



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PostPosted: 04/15/18 10:23 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

LitePal wrote:

Uh, that was, ah, very, uh, unimpressive and, uh, not very, ah, motivating.

I think people are confusing being a good orator and being good in interviews with having a magnetic personality. Put her in a room with people and she will have the entire place laughing in no time. She is very charismatic. She's never going to "win the press conference", but neither does Nick Saban or Bill Belichick (or countless other coaches).



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Shades



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PostPosted: 04/15/18 10:48 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I’m going against both Clay and Justin by saying she IS charming but NOT charismatic... certainly not to the level of most elite coaches. It’s just never been her nature to be charismatic. I do think she’s intelligent, witty, and remarkably poised. I’m not sure who would be her personality equivalent among top coaches.... maybe Gary Blair? Always kind of laid back. Maybe I just have a different definition of charisma than Justin uses.



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justintyme



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PostPosted: 04/15/18 10:56 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
Maybe I just have a different definition of charisma than Justin uses.

I think that's the case, as I think we are describing the same thing, just using different terms for it. She's not charismatic in the overly outgoing, center of attention kind of way. It's just more of the feeling of genuinely wanting to be around her. Witty was a great adjective for her, and she definitely knows how to put people at ease.



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ClayK



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PostPosted: 04/15/18 12:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

justintyme wrote:
Shades wrote:
Maybe I just have a different definition of charisma than Justin uses.

I think that's the case, as I think we are describing the same thing, just using different terms for it. She's not charismatic in the overly outgoing, center of attention kind of way. It's just more of the feeling of genuinely wanting to be around her. Witty was a great adjective for her, and she definitely knows how to put people at ease.


All of this is encouraging, and I certainly hope she does well.

I still want to know, though, if there are enough players in Minnesota to go .500 in the Big 10 ...



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justintyme



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PostPosted: 04/15/18 1:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
justintyme wrote:
Shades wrote:
Maybe I just have a different definition of charisma than Justin uses.

I think that's the case, as I think we are describing the same thing, just using different terms for it. She's not charismatic in the overly outgoing, center of attention kind of way. It's just more of the feeling of genuinely wanting to be around her. Witty was a great adjective for her, and she definitely knows how to put people at ease.


All of this is encouraging, and I certainly hope she does well.

I still want to know, though, if there are enough players in Minnesota to go .500 in the Big 10 ...

I already answered that earlier. If a coach kept all the regional players home, then yes there is enough to at least be competitive in the Big 10. Historically Minnesota has watched many of their top players (Tayler Hill, Nia Coffey, Nia Hollie, Madison Guebert, etc) leave the state.



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Shmermerer1



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PostPosted: 04/15/18 1:44 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

justintyme wrote:
ClayK wrote:
justintyme wrote:
Shades wrote:
Maybe I just have a different definition of charisma than Justin uses.

I think that's the case, as I think we are describing the same thing, just using different terms for it. She's not charismatic in the overly outgoing, center of attention kind of way. It's just more of the feeling of genuinely wanting to be around her. Witty was a great adjective for her, and she definitely knows how to put people at ease.


All of this is encouraging, and I certainly hope she does well.

I still want to know, though, if there are enough players in Minnesota to go .500 in the Big 10 ...

I already answered that earlier. If a coach kept all the regional players home, then yes there is enough to at least be competitive in the Big 10. Historically Minnesota has watched many of their top players (Tayler Hill, Nia Coffey, Nia Hollie, Madison Guebert, etc) leave the state.


I would also add Jessica January, Rebekah Dahlman To that list.


Hoopsmom



Joined: 05 Apr 2017
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PostPosted: 04/15/18 3:20 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Just in 2016, Minnesota missed out on Nia Hollie (MSU), Taylor Koenen(UNC), Abi Scheid (Northwestern), Jamie Ruden(ASU), Courtney Frederickson(Wisconsin), Kiara Russell(ASU), and Maddie McKeever (S Dakota). Plus many other very talented players that went to lower level D1 schools. And we have this much talent nearly every year.


Shades



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PostPosted: 04/15/18 3:30 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
justintyme wrote:
Shades wrote:
Maybe I just have a different definition of charisma than Justin uses.

I think that's the case, as I think we are describing the same thing, just using different terms for it. She's not charismatic in the overly outgoing, center of attention kind of way. It's just more of the feeling of genuinely wanting to be around her. Witty was a great adjective for her, and she definitely knows how to put people at ease.


All of this is encouraging, and I certainly hope she does well.

I still want to know, though, if there are enough players in Minnesota to go .500 in the Big 10 ...


They were 11-5 this year. Carlie Wagner and Kenisha Bell were the key players on the team. Not seeing the point of this line of questioning. Are you implying there’s not much talent in Minnesota? Does this constitute trolling of the Minnesota fans, or genuine lack of knowledge? It’s pretty subtle but I think it does. If Minnesota can land Paige Bueckers, we’ll do quite well (if Whalen can coach).



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NoDakSt



Joined: 26 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: 04/15/18 4:24 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
ClayK wrote:
justintyme wrote:
Shades wrote:
Maybe I just have a different definition of charisma than Justin uses.

I think that's the case, as I think we are describing the same thing, just using different terms for it. She's not charismatic in the overly outgoing, center of attention kind of way. It's just more of the feeling of genuinely wanting to be around her. Witty was a great adjective for her, and she definitely knows how to put people at ease.


All of this is encouraging, and I certainly hope she does well.

I still want to know, though, if there are enough players in Minnesota to go .500 in the Big 10 ...


They were 11-5 this year. Carlie Wagner and Kenisha Bell were the key players on the team. Not seeing the point of this line of questioning. Are you implying there’s not much talent in Minnesota? Does this constitute trolling of the Minnesota fans, or genuine lack of knowledge? It’s pretty subtle but I think it does. If Minnesota can land Paige Bueckers, we’ll do quite well (if Whalen can coach).


God forbid we'd troll any fans on here.

The validity of this question with regards to homespun talent is based on the assumption that hiring the "local hero" is going to keep the local talent at home. So it's reasonable to assess the local talent.

I feel Minnesota has a strong enough regional base that if Whalen can keep some of the local talent home each year the Gophs can go at least .500 in the league (this assumes Whalen can X and O effectively). B1G schools in general, recruit regionally and most of them are terrible and securing their regional footprints against those schools who recruit nationally. So I think if Whalen can keep some of the talent home that is drawn off each year and that she can coach, a middling finish in the BIG is doable.

What makes programs like Michigan, Maryland strong are that they secure talent outside their region. Purdue does this as well but not as successfulLy.

Of course if you get a Bueckers to stay in state that takes you to another level.



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NoDakSt



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PostPosted: 04/15/18 4:33 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Kamie Ethreridge, who has coached at Northern Colorado the last 4 years, is the new coach at Washington State.



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GlennMacGrady



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PostPosted: 04/15/18 5:20 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:

I still want to know, though, if there are enough players in Minnesota to go .500 in the Big 10 ...


According to ESPNW HoopGurlz, the number of players from Minnesota in their rankings:

2015 - 1 in the top 100 (Madison Guebert 83)
2016 - 4 in the top 100 (Jamie Ruden 39, Taylor Koenen 44, Abi Scheid 66, Nia Hollie 71)
2017 - 1 in the top 100 (Rachel Ranke 59)
2018 - 0 in the top 100
2019 - 0 in the top 60
2020 - 1 in the top 25 (Paige Bueckers 6)
2021 - 0 in the top 27

Based on these data, I'd say no UMN coach could be .500 in the Big 10 if they only recruited MN players. I'd also say that no UMN coach would get all the MN players.

The surrounding states are Wisconsin, Iowa, North Dakota and South Dakota. I'm not going to research how many ranked players come are from those states, but I imagine any UMN coach would have to get a lot of the top ones from that five state region to be .500, and would probably have to have recruiting credibility beyond that.

Again, I don't see this recruiting issue being specific to Whalen, except to the extent she has no recruiting history whereas an established head coach or even assistants would have current recruiting records.


Last edited by GlennMacGrady on 04/15/18 6:35 pm; edited 1 time in total
justintyme



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PostPosted: 04/15/18 5:50 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GlennMacGrady wrote:

Based on these data, I'd say no UMN coach could be .500 in the Big 10 if they only recruited MN players.


That's funny, I read that same data as demonstrating that by adding those players a team could easily be in the top half of the Big 10.

To be on this list we are talking 4 star recruits. Adding multiple 4 star recruits to a team (assuming just average recruiting nationally) would be more than enough for the lowis h bar we are talking about. And if you add a 5 star talent like Bueckers, competing nationally would even be on the table.



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Hoopsmom



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PostPosted: 04/15/18 6:28 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

For 2018, we had Chrissy Carr, but they left because of the scandal with her dad. Even so, Carmen Backes ( heading to Wisconsin ) is better than Chrissy, but only was not ranked as high because she had an ACL her junior year and did not play.


Hoopsmom



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PostPosted: 04/15/18 6:42 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Plus, the AAU scene her is top-notch. Why else would pmayers such as Arike Ogunbowake, Hannah Stewart, and Dru Gylten travel 7-10 hours each way every weekend to play for North Tartan?


GlennMacGrady



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PostPosted: 04/15/18 6:44 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The data average out to one ranked player from MN per year. If a coach only got MN players, that would be enough to be .500 in the Big 10? I doubt that. UConn would be last in the AAC if all it got were players from Connecticut. Both Minnesota's and Connecticut's populations are too small. On the other hand, coaches in Texas, California and a few other states could have powerhouses if they got all the good players from their states.

In fact, UMN got none of the ranked players on the list. Yet, they did beat .500 this past year.
justintyme



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PostPosted: 04/15/18 6:50 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GlennMacGrady wrote:


In fact, UMN got none of the ranked players on the list. Yet, they did beat .500 this past year.

That's the point...

Minnesota is not far off from the standard Clay asked about. And they do it while watching their top talent flee the state. You bring in the same team and add the best two or three players from Minnesota each year, where do you think they will be?

As for UCONN (or any school for that matter), why would they only get players from one state. No team it going to attempt to don't that. The question here is about whether Minnesota has enough high-end talent so that keeping them home will elevate a team, not if a team could be made solely of Minnesota born players. I mean, this isn't hockey.

The idea was that Whalen's name, and the unique nature of Minnesota's #OneOfUs focus, will give her a huge advantage recruiting in state, and a moderate advantage recruiting regionally. It is still assumed that she can recruit out of state at a reasonable level, but just that her name won't give her some major advantage.



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summertime blues



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PostPosted: 04/15/18 9:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Hoopsmom wrote:
For 2018, we had Chrissy Carr, but they left because of the scandal with her dad. Even so, Carmen Backes ( heading to Wisconsin ) is better than Chrissy, but only was not ranked as high because she had an ACL her junior year and did not play.


Explain, please? We are not all frm Minnesota.



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justintyme



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PostPosted: 04/15/18 9:44 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

summertime blues wrote:
Hoopsmom wrote:
For 2018, we had Chrissy Carr, but they left because of the scandal with her dad. Even so, Carmen Backes ( heading to Wisconsin ) is better than Chrissy, but only was not ranked as high because she had an ACL her junior year and did not play.


Explain, please? We are not all frm Minnesota.

Chrissy's father, Chris, was head coach of boy's basketball at Minnetonka.

Some teen boy hits her.

Dad uses his position as coach to gain access to school grounds, where he then confronts the boy, grabbing him by the jacket.

Kid claims coach choked him, and kid's mother demands criminal charges be brought.

Coach was put on leave while it was investigated, and the school ultimately concluded that there was no choking (multiple witnesses backed up the coach's story and said it was actually the kid who tried to choke the father). No criminal charges are brought, but the father is still fired since he used his position to gain access to the school and they felt he should have notified others rather than confront the kid himself.

Chris Carr ultimately finds a new job in Kansas, and his daughter follows him.

If he had remained coach at Minnetonka, presumably Chrissy would have played there as well, and would have been considered "from Minnesota" for the purposes of the data Glenn shared.



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Hoopsmom



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PostPosted: 04/15/18 9:54 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Chrissy played for Minnetonka High School and her dad Chris was the boys varsity coach. He also ran the 43 Hoops AAUClub here. Mid-season, 2 years ago, he was suddenly fired, and took off for Kansas. Chrissy was briefly on my daughters’ AAU team, so we heard a few things - Rumors of police reports and Chris hitting a kid who had some sort of interaction with Chrissy. Many differing versions of what happened, from players at that school...

http://m.startribune.com/minnetonka-boys-basketball-coach-carr-put-on-administrative-leave/362998551/

http://www.citypages.com/news/minnetonka-schools-remain-oddly-silent-after-teen-assaults-chris-carrs-daughter-8036353


tfan



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PostPosted: 04/16/18 12:43 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

justintyme wrote:
ClayK wrote:
All of that is great, but can she recruit? That's job one, two, three and four in college basketball.

She's Lindsay Whalen...

I don't know if it's possible to overstate what that means in Minnesota, and in recruiting Minnesota (and other regional) girls.

Regionally that is all that matters, her legend sells itself. Nationally, we will see. But being able to get the top local girls will put the Gophers ahead of the game for once.


She probably has much less influence with high school girl basketball players than she does with Lynx fans. ClayK (maybe the only person who coaches high school basketball here) says that high school players don't follow the WNBA. If they follow the colleges they are considering for playing at, Whalen would have pre-dated their interest.




Last edited by tfan on 04/16/18 2:34 am; edited 3 times in total
GlennMacGrady



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PostPosted: 04/16/18 1:12 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I was responding to Clay's question, which I interpreted to be a hypothetical one relating to a team made up only of Minnesota high school players. I realize that that's not the situation with UMN or any team, but it is a way to focus on how much talent is in Minnesota alone, because the claim was that Whalen could appeal to that talent more than some other coach.

The fact is that UMN has only a small minority of in-state players, and I agree that if it kept up it's out-of-state and international recruiting and added to that more talented Minnesota players, the team should improve. However, there's simply not that much ranked talent in a small population, demographically low black, northern state such as Minnesota.

I've never been questioning the choice of Whalen. I think it's as good a move as UMN could have made. However, like others, I have reasonable doubts about how good a recruiter she will be, partially because I too perceive her as a rather reserved personality but mostly because she has absolutely no experience or record as a recruiter. Other than Dawn Staley, what WNBA stars have become successful college head coaches, especially as their first coaching job?
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