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CBiebel



Joined: 23 Dec 2004
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PostPosted: 04/14/18 4:13 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Here's an article that mentions the NCAA's rationale:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/ncaabk/opinion-ncaa-breaks-its-rules-for-dwts-and-thats-progress/ar-AAvRnup?ocid=spartandhp&ffid=gz

But the NCAA found a loophole and is giving Ogunbowale a hand to help her squeeze through it. She can’t do any promotional work for the show, other than announcing she’s on it, because that would capitalize on her “athletics ability.” Any prize money she wins would be the result of her dancing achievements, however, and thus would be hers to keep.


Ex-Ref



Joined: 04 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: 04/14/18 7:49 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
summertime blues wrote:
In my understanding, athletes can get paid for doing stuff *not connected with their sport* so long as they don’t capitalize on that sport while doing it.


How is this not capitalizing on her sport? Her cast bio spends the whole first paragraph recounting her accomplishments on the court. No one can reasonably think she would have even been invited if not for her hitting the gamers in the F4.


I think it might be because she will be dancing, not playing bball. The bball is what got her noticed, but it is the dancing that will get her paid.



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pilight



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PostPosted: 04/14/18 8:10 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Ex-Ref wrote:
pilight wrote:
summertime blues wrote:
In my understanding, athletes can get paid for doing stuff *not connected with their sport* so long as they don’t capitalize on that sport while doing it.


How is this not capitalizing on her sport? Her cast bio spends the whole first paragraph recounting her accomplishments on the court. No one can reasonably think she would have even been invited if not for her hitting the gamers in the F4.


I think it might be because she will be dancing, not playing bball. The bball is what got her noticed, but it is the dancing that will get her paid.


That's not consistent with what the NCAA has done in the past



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Ex-Ref



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PostPosted: 04/14/18 8:34 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
Ex-Ref wrote:
pilight wrote:
summertime blues wrote:
In my understanding, athletes can get paid for doing stuff *not connected with their sport* so long as they don’t capitalize on that sport while doing it.


How is this not capitalizing on her sport? Her cast bio spends the whole first paragraph recounting her accomplishments on the court. No one can reasonably think she would have even been invited if not for her hitting the gamers in the F4.


I think it might be because she will be dancing, not playing bball. The bball is what got her noticed, but it is the dancing that will get her paid.


That's not consistent with what the NCAA has done in the past


How is it not consistent? You can't just make a claim like that with nothing to back it up.

Selling their autograph or memorabilia is DIRECTLY tied to the sport. Does the NCAA prohibit them from selling their books (when they used books), dress shoes, dresses, suits, ties, kitchenware, their car, etc?

This seems more like a 'normal' job to me. Yeah, she got the job because of bball, but how is it any different than getting a summer job at Walmart because the hiring manager knew that the person played on the team?

And, hey, even the NCAA can change!!!!! Wink



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toad455



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PostPosted: 04/14/18 9:18 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

If the pay hasn't change, the minimum for DWTS is $250,000 is you're the first eliminated.



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Carol Anne



Joined: 09 Apr 2005
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PostPosted: 04/14/18 9:22 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

From a different perspective, assuming Arike's dance partner will be a man, this pairing will serve to reassure viewers that most women athletes are straight. Wink


pilight



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PostPosted: 04/14/18 9:36 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Ex-Ref wrote:
This seems more like a 'normal' job to me. Yeah, she got the job because of bball, but how is it any different than getting a summer job at Walmart because the hiring manager knew that the person played on the team?


Do you know how many players have been disciplined by the NCAA for getting jobs because the hiring manager knew who they were? Too many to count.



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Make lots of noise
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Or kiss lots of girls
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Ex-Ref



Joined: 04 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: 04/14/18 9:51 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
Ex-Ref wrote:
This seems more like a 'normal' job to me. Yeah, she got the job because of bball, but how is it any different than getting a summer job at Walmart because the hiring manager knew that the person played on the team?


Do you know how many players have been disciplined by the NCAA for getting jobs because the hiring manager knew who they were? Too many to count.


And how many of those were boosters (or booster-arranged) providing "no-show" jobs to the athlete?

This is a legit job that the NCAA (and world for that matter) will be able to monitor.



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pilight



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PostPosted: 04/14/18 10:16 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Ex-Ref wrote:
pilight wrote:
Ex-Ref wrote:
This seems more like a 'normal' job to me. Yeah, she got the job because of bball, but how is it any different than getting a summer job at Walmart because the hiring manager knew that the person played on the team?


Do you know how many players have been disciplined by the NCAA for getting jobs because the hiring manager knew who they were? Too many to count.


And how many of those were boosters (or booster-arranged) providing "no-show" jobs to the athlete?

This is a legit job that the NCAA (and world for that matter) will be able to monitor.


Yeah, it's not like any of the DWTS producers went to Notre Dame...



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Make lots of noise
Kiss lots of boys
Or kiss lots of girls
If that's something you're into
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Ex-Ref



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PostPosted: 04/14/18 10:26 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
Ex-Ref wrote:
pilight wrote:
Ex-Ref wrote:
This seems more like a 'normal' job to me. Yeah, she got the job because of bball, but how is it any different than getting a summer job at Walmart because the hiring manager knew that the person played on the team?


Do you know how many players have been disciplined by the NCAA for getting jobs because the hiring manager knew who they were? Too many to count.


And how many of those were boosters (or booster-arranged) providing "no-show" jobs to the athlete?

This is a legit job that the NCAA (and world for that matter) will be able to monitor.


Yeah, it's not like any of the DWTS producers went to Notre Dame...


Do you know that any did?



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Iluvacc



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PostPosted: 04/14/18 10:40 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Ex-Ref wrote:
pilight wrote:
Ex-Ref wrote:
pilight wrote:
Ex-Ref wrote:
This seems more like a 'normal' job to me. Yeah, she got the job because of bball, but how is it any different than getting a summer job at Walmart because the hiring manager knew that the person played on the team?


Do you know how many players have been disciplined by the NCAA for getting jobs because the hiring manager knew who they were? Too many to count.


And how many of those were boosters (or booster-arranged) providing "no-show" jobs to the athlete?

This is a legit job that the NCAA (and world for that matter) will be able to monitor.


Yeah, it's not like any of the DWTS producers went to Notre Dame...


Do you know that any did?


The fact that Pilight mentioned it would lead me to believe it’s true.


GlennMacGrady



Joined: 03 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: 04/14/18 12:53 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

2018 NCAA D1 Manual

12.4 Employment.

12.4.1 Criteria Governing Compensation to Student-Athletes. Compensation may be paid to a student-athlete:
(a) Only for work actually performed; and
(b) At a rate commensurate with the going rate in that locality for similar services.
12.4.1.1 Athletics Reputation. Such compensation may not include any remuneration for value or utility that the student-athlete may have for the employer because of the publicity, reputation, fame or personal following that he or she has obtained because of athletics ability.
GlennMacGrady



Joined: 03 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: 04/14/18 1:06 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

2018 NCAA D1 Manual

12.4 Employment.

12.5.2 Nonpermissible.

12.5.2.1 Advertisements and Promotions After Becoming a Student-Athlete. After becoming a student-athlete, an individual shall not be eligible for participation in intercollegiate athletics if the individual:
(a) Accepts any remuneration for or permits the use of his or her name or picture to advertise, recommend or promote directly the sale or use of a commercial product or service of any kind . . . .
Fighting Artichoke



Joined: 12 Dec 2012
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PostPosted: 04/14/18 1:42 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

It does seem like the NCAA should have told Notre Dame "no"when they asked whether Arike dancing would be permissible. But Notre Dame did the right thing by asking them beforehand. The NCAA may have decided that this publicity for WCBB might, on balance, make it worthwhile for them to allow it.

I would think that if anyone has issue with this decision, they should complain about the NCAA and not complain about Notre Dame. (Thankfully, most posters seem to be complaining about the NCAA's inconsistency and not Notre Dame.)


FrozenLVFan



Joined: 08 Jul 2014
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PostPosted: 04/14/18 4:34 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GlennMacGrady wrote:
2018 NCAA D1 Manual

12.4 Employment.

12.4.1 Criteria Governing Compensation to Student-Athletes. Compensation may be paid to a student-athlete:
(a) Only for work actually performed; and
(b) At a rate commensurate with the going rate in that locality for similar services.
12.4.1.1 Athletics Reputation. Such compensation may not include any remuneration for value or utility that the student-athlete may have for the employer because of the publicity, reputation, fame or personal following that he or she has obtained because of athletics ability.



GlennMacGrady wrote:
2018 NCAA D1 Manual

12.4 Employment.

12.5.2 Nonpermissible.

12.5.2.1 Advertisements and Promotions After Becoming a Student-Athlete. After becoming a student-athlete, an individual shall not be eligible for participation in intercollegiate athletics if the individual:
(a) Accepts any remuneration for or permits the use of his or her name or picture to advertise, recommend or promote directly the sale or use of a commercial product or service of any kind . . . .


A quick google showed that the stories and ads for DWTS don't show Arike, unlike the other celebrity contestants. She's getting a one-sentence explanation of who she is, with no photograph. I can't see how that constitutes advertising, recommendation, or promotion. Nor is it providing much value or utility to DWTS...her name is probably the least recognizable of the celebrities.

If ND applied to the NCAA, and the NCAA agreed, or devised guidelines for Arike to follow, like no promotional photographs pre-event, I don't see how either she or ND is at fault.


pilight



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: 04/14/18 4:53 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

FrozenLVFan wrote:
If ND applied to the NCAA, and the NCAA agreed, or devised guidelines for Arike to follow, like no promotional photographs pre-event, I don't see how either she or ND is at fault.


Notre Dame didn't do anything wrong. Ogunbowale certainly didn't do anything wrong. The issue is the NCAA being full of it.



_________________
Make lots of noise
Kiss lots of boys
Or kiss lots of girls
If that's something you're into
When the straight and narrow
Gets a little too straight
Roll up a joint, or don't
Just follow your arrow
Wherever it points, yeah
Follow your arrow
Wherever it points
calbearman76



Joined: 02 Nov 2009
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PostPosted: 04/14/18 5:04 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
FrozenLVFan wrote:
If ND applied to the NCAA, and the NCAA agreed, or devised guidelines for Arike to follow, like no promotional photographs pre-event, I don't see how either she or ND is at fault.


Notre Dame didn't do anything wrong. Ogunbowale certainly didn't do anything wrong. The issue is the NCAA being full of it.


Agree 100%

The cases of Jeremy Bloom (Olympic Skier who wanted to be a Colorado football player) or Donald De La Haye (UCF Kicker who made money from You Tube videos) were both terrible rulings. This is only terrible from the standpoint that it is completely at odds with its previous position.


Ex-Ref



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PostPosted: 04/14/18 5:24 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

People bitch and bitch and bitch that the NCAA a non-evolving organization. That they are 'mean' to athletes getting 4-5 years of free or subsidized education.

When they do try to do something different in favor of an athlete, people bitch and bitch and bitch.

Rolling Eyes



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calbearman76



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PostPosted: 04/14/18 5:45 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Ex-Ref wrote:
People bitch and bitch and bitch that the NCAA a non-evolving organization. That they are 'mean' to athletes getting 4-5 years of free or subsidized education.

When they do try to do something different in favor of an athlete, people bitch and bitch and bitch.

:roll:


The NCAA is an organization with rules. You can choose to follow the rules religiously or follow them with an eye towards reason, appropriateness and in furtherance of its purpose. Unfortunately the NCAA seems to jump back and forth between these two, making their decisions arbitrary and constantly subject to criticism.

This is a perfect example where, if a previous poster is correct, they will allow one player to receive $250,000 as a result of her play, but they won't allow others to keep $5,000 for sinking a half-court shot in a contest and still play. Change the rules (and not just to exclude National TV shows broadcast by Disney) and I have no problem; but this is wrong.


elsie



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PostPosted: 04/14/18 6:39 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

as long as the rules are in flux for certain schools like ND, then its all a sham....they're not even embarrassed about it....

no one can say why transfer rules are favorable to some, and punitive to others...

its almost like the NCAA is laughing in our faces...

you little people...follow the rules....others...wink wink....


CBiebel



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PostPosted: 04/15/18 12:46 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
Ex-Ref wrote:
pilight wrote:
summertime blues wrote:
In my understanding, athletes can get paid for doing stuff *not connected with their sport* so long as they don’t capitalize on that sport while doing it.


How is this not capitalizing on her sport? Her cast bio spends the whole first paragraph recounting her accomplishments on the court. No one can reasonably think she would have even been invited if not for her hitting the gamers in the F4.


I think it might be because she will be dancing, not playing bball. The bball is what got her noticed, but it is the dancing that will get her paid.


That's not consistent with what the NCAA has done in the past


You want consistency from the NCAA? Good luck with that... Wink


CBiebel



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PostPosted: 04/15/18 12:54 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

elsie wrote:

as long as the rules are in flux for certain schools like ND, then its all a sham....they're not even embarrassed about it....

no one can say why transfer rules are favorable to some, and punitive to others...



I assume you are suggesting the Shepard situation. It's not like she was a unique situation, as some here imply:

Leticia Romero (From KSU as Freshman in 2013-14 to FSU as sophomore in 2014-15)
Chantrice White (From Illinois as sophomore (2015-16) to FSU as junior (2016-17)
Natalie Romeo (From Nebraska (stick a pin in this part, I'll get back to it below) as a sophomore (2015-16) to Washington as a junior (2016-17)).


In all the above cases the coach had been fired (in at least 3 of the 4 (including Shepard) the coach was being investigated by the university), and the players petitioned for the exemption.

The only thing that set Shepard apart from the rest above was that she ended up playing a key role in winning a National Championship.


GEF34



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PostPosted: 04/15/18 8:44 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The NCAA has allowed gymnasts to compete in "professional gymnastics competitions" and post Olympic tours while maintaining their college eligibility, some did it before they were enrolled in college, some did it while they were enrolled in college. Not sure how it worked regarding prize money, prizes or payment for participation. but they have been allowed to participate or perform, however you'd like to phrase it.



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ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 04/16/18 4:21 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Over 30 years ago, after the Jeremy Bloom fiasco (who was ruled ineligible for football at Colorado because he was making buckets of money as a World Cup and Olympic skier) the NCAA made it so you student-athletes are only ineligible for a sport if they accept money for that particular sport in which they are getting paid, and could continue to play other college sports.

Allowing a basketball player to get paid for a dance show doesn't strike me as all that unusual a ruling. Any more than a college football player getting paid to play professional baseball during summers, which happens frequently.


WNBA 09



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PostPosted: 04/16/18 7:34 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

CBiebel wrote:
elsie wrote:

as long as the rules are in flux for certain schools like ND, then its all a sham....they're not even embarrassed about it....

no one can say why transfer rules are favorable to some, and punitive to others...



I assume you are suggesting the Shepard situation. It's not like she was a unique situation, as some here imply:

Leticia Romero (From KSU as Freshman in 2013-14 to FSU as sophomore in 2014-15)
Chantrice White (From Illinois as sophomore (2015-16) to FSU as junior (2016-17)
Natalie Romeo (From Nebraska (stick a pin in this part, I'll get back to it below) as a sophomore (2015-16) to Washington as a junior (2016-17)).


In all the above cases the coach had been fired (in at least 3 of the 4 (including Shepard) the coach was being investigated by the university), and the players petitioned for the exemption.

The only thing that set Shepard apart from the rest above was that she ended up playing a key role in winning a National Championship.


Heck wasnt Chatrice White with South Carolina before Illinois ?



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