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pilight



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: 04/10/18 7:21 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

cthskzfn wrote:
hey pilight- did Nurse travel on her steal and game-tying layup?


It was a close call. I lean toward yes, but it might be my anti-UConn bias.



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cthskzfn



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PostPosted: 04/10/18 11:33 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
cthskzfn wrote:
hey pilight- did Nurse travel on her steal and game-tying layup?


It was a close call. I lean toward yes, but it might be my anti-UConn bias.


I tried to find a definition of travel in the rules and reg.s, but only saw stuff dealing w/ pivot foots and jump stops.

I agree w/ your sense that you should probably be recused from the discussion.

Smile



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pilight



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: 04/11/18 7:50 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

cthskzfn wrote:
I agree w/ your sense that you should probably be recused from the discussion.

Smile


You'll note that this is the first time I've said anything about it



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ClayK



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PostPosted: 04/11/18 9:23 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I'm still waiting for acsuc99 to let us know how many games he or she has officiated -- and there's a reason. Once you're on the court, working hard, you don't have time to think to yourself "No, call that on the white team, they're not Catholic." Or "Blow the whistle even though it wasn't a foul because the coach supported Trump in a tweet."

Those who've never reffed, or never read a rule book, find it very easy to criticize and come up with elaborate theories. So again, acsuc99, how many games have you officiated?



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acsuc99



Joined: 10 Jul 2013
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PostPosted: 04/11/18 1:12 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

LOL So I have to REF a game in order to be qualified enough to offer an opinion that it was inappropriate for this guy to be on the court due to a conflict of interest.

Did you read the guys 8000+ tweets? Because I did. That's what I am basing my opinion on.


pilight



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: 04/11/18 1:16 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

acsuc99 wrote:
LOL So I have to REF a game in order to be qualified enough to offer an opinion that it was inappropriate for this guy to be on the court due to a conflict of interest.

Did you read the guys 8000+ tweets? Because I did. That's what I am basing my opinion on.


You read all 8000+ tweets?



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Make lots of noise
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Or kiss lots of girls
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acsuc99



Joined: 10 Jul 2013
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PostPosted: 04/11/18 1:43 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
acsuc99 wrote:
LOL So I have to REF a game in order to be qualified enough to offer an opinion that it was inappropriate for this guy to be on the court due to a conflict of interest.

Did you read the guys 8000+ tweets? Because I did. That's what I am basing my opinion on.


You read all 8000+ tweets?


Yup. Scrolled through the entire thing. It was too disturbing to look away. I haven't been to church in years and probably read more Catholic verses than a regular church goer that one day on his feed.


ArtBest23



Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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PostPosted: 04/11/18 1:49 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

calbearman76 wrote:
I am not a conspiracy theorist. I am also not someone that routinely criticizes referees, and in particular rarely criticizes them for having a direct bias. That said, some of the comments on this thread are troubling. I absolutely do not believe that there was any intentional bias but this type of issue should be reviewed, not just on an individual game basis but as an overall review of his work and social media practice. I believe that unintentional bias, whether in favor of a home team with a loud crowd, a star coach, player or team is prevalent, and it would not shock me if their was some unintentional bias with regard to a deeply held religious belief. That is not an indictment but just an understanding of human nature.

As I was watching the game I noticed a few questionable calls but did not believe that the referees influenced the outcome, so I am not coming at this from any position. But it is never a good thing if such issues are raised, as appearance of unbiased officiating is often as important the officiating itself.


So you want to start barring refs based on race or political affiliation too? You have any other "deeply held" biases?

The premise of this thread and your post are outlandish and truly offensive.

You clowns probably believe JF Kennedy took his orders from the Pope too.

That's called bigotry in case you were unaware


GlennMacGrady



Joined: 03 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: 04/11/18 1:52 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Who is this alleged theocrat and where is his damning Twitter feed?
acsuc99



Joined: 10 Jul 2013
Posts: 591



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PostPosted: 04/11/18 3:17 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GlennMacGrady wrote:
Who is this alleged theocrat and where is his damning Twitter feed?


Very Happy




Last edited by acsuc99 on 04/11/18 3:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
acsuc99



Joined: 10 Jul 2013
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PostPosted: 04/11/18 3:19 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
calbearman76 wrote:
I am not a conspiracy theorist. I am also not someone that routinely criticizes referees, and in particular rarely criticizes them for having a direct bias. That said, some of the comments on this thread are troubling. I absolutely do not believe that there was any intentional bias but this type of issue should be reviewed, not just on an individual game basis but as an overall review of his work and social media practice. I believe that unintentional bias, whether in favor of a home team with a loud crowd, a star coach, player or team is prevalent, and it would not shock me if their was some unintentional bias with regard to a deeply held religious belief. That is not an indictment but just an understanding of human nature.

As I was watching the game I noticed a few questionable calls but did not believe that the referees influenced the outcome, so I am not coming at this from any position. But it is never a good thing if such issues are raised, as appearance of unbiased officiating is often as important the officiating itself.


So you want to start barring refs based on race or political affiliation too? You have any other "deeply held" biases?

The premise of this thread and your post are outlandish and truly offensive.

You clowns probably believe JF Kennedy took his orders from the Pope too.

That's called bigotry in case you were unaware


People are free to practice whatever religion they want.

But read through his feed. And than tell me he should have been on a court officiating a title game involving the worlds most famous Roman Catholic school.


pilight



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: 04/11/18 3:21 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

acsuc99 wrote:
ArtBest23 wrote:
calbearman76 wrote:
I am not a conspiracy theorist. I am also not someone that routinely criticizes referees, and in particular rarely criticizes them for having a direct bias. That said, some of the comments on this thread are troubling. I absolutely do not believe that there was any intentional bias but this type of issue should be reviewed, not just on an individual game basis but as an overall review of his work and social media practice. I believe that unintentional bias, whether in favor of a home team with a loud crowd, a star coach, player or team is prevalent, and it would not shock me if their was some unintentional bias with regard to a deeply held religious belief. That is not an indictment but just an understanding of human nature.

As I was watching the game I noticed a few questionable calls but did not believe that the referees influenced the outcome, so I am not coming at this from any position. But it is never a good thing if such issues are raised, as appearance of unbiased officiating is often as important the officiating itself.


So you want to start barring refs based on race or political affiliation too? You have any other "deeply held" biases?

The premise of this thread and your post are outlandish and truly offensive.

You clowns probably believe JF Kennedy took his orders from the Pope too.

That's called bigotry in case you were unaware


People are free to practice whatever religion they want.

But read through his feed. And than tell me he should have been on a court officiating a title game involving the worlds most famous Roman Catholic school.


So Catholics can't be objective?



_________________
Make lots of noise
Kiss lots of boys
Or kiss lots of girls
If that's something you're into
When the straight and narrow
Gets a little too straight
Roll up a joint, or don't
Just follow your arrow
Wherever it points, yeah
Follow your arrow
Wherever it points
acsuc99



Joined: 10 Jul 2013
Posts: 591



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PostPosted: 04/11/18 3:25 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
acsuc99 wrote:
ArtBest23 wrote:
calbearman76 wrote:
I am not a conspiracy theorist. I am also not someone that routinely criticizes referees, and in particular rarely criticizes them for having a direct bias. That said, some of the comments on this thread are troubling. I absolutely do not believe that there was any intentional bias but this type of issue should be reviewed, not just on an individual game basis but as an overall review of his work and social media practice. I believe that unintentional bias, whether in favor of a home team with a loud crowd, a star coach, player or team is prevalent, and it would not shock me if their was some unintentional bias with regard to a deeply held religious belief. That is not an indictment but just an understanding of human nature.

As I was watching the game I noticed a few questionable calls but did not believe that the referees influenced the outcome, so I am not coming at this from any position. But it is never a good thing if such issues are raised, as appearance of unbiased officiating is often as important the officiating itself.


So you want to start barring refs based on race or political affiliation too? You have any other "deeply held" biases?

The premise of this thread and your post are outlandish and truly offensive.

You clowns probably believe JF Kennedy took his orders from the Pope too.

That's called bigotry in case you were unaware


People are free to practice whatever religion they want.

But read through his feed. And than tell me he should have been on a court officiating a title game involving the worlds most famous Roman Catholic school.


So Catholics can't be objective?


Ones that have nearly 7000 tweets about the religion on his feed? Probably not.

Only he himself knows if he could be fair and impartial. I do know I saw Morgan Williams tackled on a fastbreak with 5 seconds left in a tied National Title game and Joe the trail ref couldn't make the call.


GlennMacGrady



Joined: 03 Jan 2005
Posts: 5102
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PostPosted: 04/11/18 4:02 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

acsuc99 wrote:
GlennMacGrady wrote:
Who is this alleged theocrat and where is his damning Twitter feed?


Very Happy


I don't understand. We're discussing a ref and his Twitter feed, yet you seem to be unwilling, unable or not allowed to identify him or post a link to the Twitter feed under discussion? What's going on?
ClayK



Joined: 11 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: 04/11/18 5:19 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

So the answer for acsuc99 is "No, I have never officiated a game."

Of course that doesn't mean you can't criticize the officiating, but it does mean that your accusations don't reflect any experience or in-depth understanding of what the job entails.

More specifically, to imply a Catholic conspiracy that is activated during games in which any Catholic school is playing -- or, one would suspect, any Catholic player -- is based on a complete lack of comprehension of how the profession works.

If you want to criticize officials for making bad calls, that's perfectly fine, because of course they do. But if you want to do much more than that, you need to bring more to the table than vague theories of religious bias. An analysis of the official's calls over many games involving Catholic schools would be helpful rather than some hand-waving about "obvious incompetence."

And how exactly would you know "obvious incompetence" except in the matter of judgment calls you disagree with? How about proper positioning? Knowledge of the rules? Game management?

If you're going to accuse people of bias and incompetence, then it's reasonable to ask your credentials for doing so -- and if you don't have much more to offer than being a fan, then your criticisms will be treated with the respect they deserve.



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cthskzfn



Joined: 21 Nov 2004
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PostPosted: 04/11/18 5:32 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
calbearman76 wrote:
I am not a conspiracy theorist. I am also not someone that routinely criticizes referees, and in particular rarely criticizes them for having a direct bias. That said, some of the comments on this thread are troubling. I absolutely do not believe that there was any intentional bias but this type of issue should be reviewed, not just on an individual game basis but as an overall review of his work and social media practice. I believe that unintentional bias, whether in favor of a home team with a loud crowd, a star coach, player or team is prevalent, and it would not shock me if their was some unintentional bias with regard to a deeply held religious belief. That is not an indictment but just an understanding of human nature.

As I was watching the game I noticed a few questionable calls but did not believe that the referees influenced the outcome, so I am not coming at this from any position. But it is never a good thing if such issues are raised, as appearance of unbiased officiating is often as important the officiating itself.


So you want to start barring refs based on race or political affiliation too? You have any other "deeply held" biases?

The premise of this thread and your post are outlandish and truly offensive.

You clowns probably believe JF Kennedy took his orders from the Pope too.

That's called bigotry in case you were unaware



Which Rebkell poster/s, specifically, ArtBest23, did you refer to above as a clown?



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FrozenLVFan



Joined: 08 Jul 2014
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PostPosted: 04/11/18 6:31 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GlennMacGrady wrote:
acsuc99 wrote:
GlennMacGrady wrote:
Who is this alleged theocrat and where is his damning Twitter feed?


Very Happy


I don't understand. We're discussing a ref and his Twitter feed, yet you seem to be unwilling, unable or not allowed to identify him or post a link to the Twitter feed under discussion? What's going on?


The official's twitter feed is a never-ending string of retweets from Catholic and women's basketball figures, most of whom he follows. Make of that what you will, since he also follows Reebok, musicians, the Kay Yow Cancer Fund, Doris Burke, the Dallas Cowboys, and my Baptist alma mater. If he's posted original tweets of his own, I couldn't readily find them among all the retweets although I admittedly didn't read even close to all 8000 of them.

His account has already attracted a very disturbing hate-speech-filled diatribe from someone, so I'm going to refrain from posting a link here.


calbearman76



Joined: 02 Nov 2009
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Location: Carson City


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PostPosted: 04/11/18 6:59 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
calbearman76 wrote:
I am not a conspiracy theorist. I am also not someone that routinely criticizes referees, and in particular rarely criticizes them for having a direct bias. That said, some of the comments on this thread are troubling. I absolutely do not believe that there was any intentional bias but this type of issue should be reviewed, not just on an individual game basis but as an overall review of his work and social media practice. I believe that unintentional bias, whether in favor of a home team with a loud crowd, a star coach, player or team is prevalent, and it would not shock me if their was some unintentional bias with regard to a deeply held religious belief. That is not an indictment but just an understanding of human nature.

As I was watching the game I noticed a few questionable calls but did not believe that the referees influenced the outcome, so I am not coming at this from any position. But it is never a good thing if such issues are raised, as appearance of unbiased officiating is often as important the officiating itself.


So you want to start barring refs based on race or political affiliation too? You have any other "deeply held" biases?

The premise of this thread and your post are outlandish and truly offensive.

You clowns probably believe JF Kennedy took his orders from the Pope too.

That's called bigotry in case you were unaware


I said no such thing. What I said was that the appearance of bias is sometimes as bad as bias itself. And I also said that if the issue has been raised (as it has) then it should be investigated. No prejudgment. I do want refs who are professional and who are above reproach. I do not want an alum of a school, or a parent of a student at a school, to officiate that school's game, whether or not they can be totally objective. I do not believe that this referee should necessarily be banned from doing Notre Dame games, but it does concern me if he was on a Notre Dame website making comments or liking them within 48 hours of the game.

I also believe that most bias by referees is subconscious. And I believe that there are many competent referees to choose from so that if there is the potential for conflict it should be avoided. I was not making any type of anti-Catholic or anti-Notre Dame statement, and if you reread my statement you would find that to be the case.

Calling for an investigation is a responsible thing to do. Allowing, or even supporting such an investigation would be the appropriate position for both the referee, Notre Dame and its fans to take. Vilifying the idea of an investigation sounds very similar to our current president who either fears or knows what such an investigation would show.

My guess is that such an investigation would not show a pattern of bias, but could make recommendations regarding the use of certain types of social media activity. It seems that would be a good thing, and could lead to a broader discussion of social media comments on officiating by players and coaches as well.


ArtBest23



Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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PostPosted: 04/11/18 7:03 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

acsuc99 wrote:
ArtBest23 wrote:
calbearman76 wrote:
I am not a conspiracy theorist. I am also not someone that routinely criticizes referees, and in particular rarely criticizes them for having a direct bias. That said, some of the comments on this thread are troubling. I absolutely do not believe that there was any intentional bias but this type of issue should be reviewed, not just on an individual game basis but as an overall review of his work and social media practice. I believe that unintentional bias, whether in favor of a home team with a loud crowd, a star coach, player or team is prevalent, and it would not shock me if their was some unintentional bias with regard to a deeply held religious belief. That is not an indictment but just an understanding of human nature.

As I was watching the game I noticed a few questionable calls but did not believe that the referees influenced the outcome, so I am not coming at this from any position. But it is never a good thing if such issues are raised, as appearance of unbiased officiating is often as important the officiating itself.


So you want to start barring refs based on race or political affiliation too? You have any other "deeply held" biases?

The premise of this thread and your post are outlandish and truly offensive.

You clowns probably believe JF Kennedy took his orders from the Pope too.

That's called bigotry in case you were unaware


People are free to practice whatever religion they want.

But read through his feed. And than tell me he should have been on a court officiating a title game involving the worlds most famous Roman Catholic school.


You're just digging yourself an even deeper and more shameful hole.


cthskzfn



Joined: 21 Nov 2004
Posts: 10977
Location: In a world where a dbag like Trump isn't potus. If u were in my safe space, you'd have to be f'd up


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PostPosted: 04/11/18 8:42 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

calbearman76 wrote:
ArtBest23 wrote:
calbearman76 wrote:
I am not a conspiracy theorist. I am also not someone that routinely criticizes referees, and in particular rarely criticizes them for having a direct bias. That said, some of the comments on this thread are troubling. I absolutely do not believe that there was any intentional bias but this type of issue should be reviewed, not just on an individual game basis but as an overall review of his work and social media practice. I believe that unintentional bias, whether in favor of a home team with a loud crowd, a star coach, player or team is prevalent, and it would not shock me if their was some unintentional bias with regard to a deeply held religious belief. That is not an indictment but just an understanding of human nature.

As I was watching the game I noticed a few questionable calls but did not believe that the referees influenced the outcome, so I am not coming at this from any position. But it is never a good thing if such issues are raised, as appearance of unbiased officiating is often as important the officiating itself.


So you want to start barring refs based on race or political affiliation too? You have any other "deeply held" biases?

The premise of this thread and your post are outlandish and truly offensive.

You clowns probably believe JF Kennedy took his orders from the Pope too.

That's called bigotry in case you were unaware


I said no such thing. What I said was that the appearance of bias is sometimes as bad as bias itself. And I also said that if the issue has been raised (as it has) then it should be investigated. No prejudgment. I do want refs who are professional and who are above reproach. I do not want an alum of a school, or a parent of a student at a school, to officiate that school's game, whether or not they can be totally objective. I do not believe that this referee should necessarily be banned from doing Notre Dame games, but it does concern me if he was on a Notre Dame website making comments or liking them within 48 hours of the game.

I also believe that most bias by referees is subconscious. And I believe that there are many competent referees to choose from so that if there is the potential for conflict it should be avoided. I was not making any type of anti-Catholic or anti-Notre Dame statement, and if you reread my statement you would find that to be the case.

Calling for an investigation is a responsible thing to do. Allowing, or even supporting such an investigation would be the appropriate position for both the referee, Notre Dame and its fans to take. Vilifying the idea of an investigation sounds very similar to our current president who either fears or knows what such an investigation would show.

My guess is that such an investigation would not show a pattern of bias, but could make recommendations regarding the use of certain types of social media activity. It seems that would be a good thing, and could lead to a broader discussion of social media comments on officiating by players and coaches as well.



Don't worry, he won't reply. He never does when trounced.

More importantly, I can't find those 8,000 tweets.



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Brinx



Joined: 03 Oct 2013
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PostPosted: 04/11/18 10:17 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I don't see an issue with the religious tweets, but I don't think it's a wild idea to think that the refs for a national championship game should not be retweeting and liking only one participating team. That just opens the door up to this exact type of criticizing and accusing.


CBiebel



Joined: 23 Dec 2004
Posts: 663
Location: PA


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PostPosted: 04/11/18 11:02 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I do have to say that it's an interesting twist to have someone say that ND won because a ref was pro-Catholic. It used to be ND losing because a ref was anti-Catholic Wink (actually, there were probably cases where that was true, but that was at least 80-100 years ago).

There was even an epic troll post about it back on the old "rec.sports.football.college" usenet newsgroup (how many people remember those?). On that newsgroup, "fishing" (aka trolling) was not only tolerated, it was actually encouraged as part of that newsgroup's culture.

After Boston College beat ND 30-11 (It was a really bad season for ND that year), a poster created a new username (Maria Pescadero) and posted: "It wasn't Lou Holts's (sic) fault that BC beat ND. The refs were obviously anti-Catholic!"


CBiebel



Joined: 23 Dec 2004
Posts: 663
Location: PA


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PostPosted: 04/11/18 11:09 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Brinx wrote:
I don't see an issue with the religious tweets, but I don't think it's a wild idea to think that the refs for a national championship game should not be retweeting and liking only one participating team. That just opens the door up to this exact type of criticizing and accusing.


I do agree that the refs should refrain from retweeting stuff, etc.

I also think that the calls of the refs should be reviewed overall for quality control, particularly for bigger games.

I'm not saying for this particular instance. I mean as a general policy, and I'd like to think that that would be the case, anyway.

While coaches can't publicly make comments about refs, they can "go through channels" (usually their ADs contacting conference commissioners, who take it up with the NCAA or reffing organizations) to have concerns met.


WNBA 09



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Posts: 7589
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PostPosted: 04/11/18 11:46 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Maybe this could lighten up everyone's mood?

https://youtu.be/lwYcfFvn-uY

Razz



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taropatch



Joined: 24 Feb 2009
Posts: 527
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PostPosted: 04/12/18 2:56 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

CBiebel wrote:
I do have to say that it's an interesting twist to have someone say that ND won because a ref was pro-Catholic. It used to be ND losing because a ref was anti-Catholic Wink (actually, there were probably cases where that was true, but that was at least 80-100 years ago).

There was even an epic troll post about it back on the old "rec.sports.football.college" usenet newsgroup (how many people remember those?). On that newsgroup, "fishing" (aka trolling) was not only tolerated, it was actually encouraged as part of that newsgroup's culture.

After Boston College beat ND 30-11 (It was a really bad season for ND that year), a poster created a new username (Maria Pescadero) and posted: "It wasn't Lou Holts's (sic) fault that BC beat ND. The refs were obviously anti-Catholic!"


Maria, BC is also a Catholic school.


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