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jammerbirdi



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PostPosted: 01/24/18 7:59 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I have a lot of questions about what happens and when. I think by any measuring stick that exists in my head, Trump obstructed justice and he admitted doing so on camera with Lester Holt. I don't know, of course, anything about the Russia angle. Except... that finding and revealing something nefarious there could easily rise to a level of being 'more serious' than even obstructing justice and something that could absolutely force Trump's removal and even prosecution, which, I have to say, isn't something that I think will ever happen on any domestic crime charge like obstruction.

So my questions are 'what happens if?' kind of questions.

What happens if Mueller determines that Trump obstructed justice? Does he indict him? Arrest him? CAN he do that? Or does he just issue a report or a finding? Because, people, if Mueller can't actually bring Trump down himself, totally independent of the political processes of Washington, if all he can do is issue a report or something, and it's up to CONGRESS lol to vote to impeach Trump, that's never going to happen. It'll never get out of the house. Right?

Even if Trump stumbles and lies during his testimony, which, I have to say, for Trump wouldn't actually represent an actual stumble, and the crime is lying under oath, etc. Who prosecutes? What court. No criminal court has on its list of penalties the removal of a POTUS from office. lol. Again, it sounds like at some point it comes down to congress voting to impeach. Yeah. I would say the odds of that happening are very slim.

Trump has a base, the one everyone describes as hicks. He also has a big bank of secret Trump voters. Who aren't hicks. And then he has a LOT of powerful friends now. And that's business and Wall St, where they are referring to him as The Orange Swan. Laughing I ain't shittin' you. ALL of these people are becoming REALLY happy with this administration. Maybe people here aren't noticing. That's understandable. But, as I said, Trump is winning over converts. Believe it or not. HIs poll numbers are going to move up unless something happens to explode that which would be a rapid and negative resolution to the Russian probe.

But there's a lot of people who aren't going to want to let this sucker go. That's even given all the historical rarities that must fall into place to get us to that point. People STILL are not going to want to let this guy go.

Anyone know if Mueller has the ability to indict and arrest and force a trial of Donald Trump? Or family members? Because THEN we might be talking about a resignation. I think two things we can almost forget about and that is the 25th amendment or impeachment. Trump is like really very lucid, like really very sharp. And mocking aside, I'm not kidding there. Just listen to the audio of his off the cuff Q&A with reporters this afternoon. He just hands Maggie Haberman her ass is all. So the 25th is out. And I just don't see how impeachment gets through a republican congress. Anyway.

Jeez. You would think with all the time I spend watching CNN I'd know this shit by now because ... well... because they'd have experts laying the processes all out for viewers or sumthin'. Confused


calbearman76



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PostPosted: 01/26/18 9:56 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The last thing I want is an impeachment without a conviction by the senate.

I believe that Trump is unfit to be president and has most likely committed several impeachable offenses. I believe his administration has been the most corrupt, by far, of any in my lifetime. If there has ever been as corrupt an administration it would be Harding, but largely because government was not as large then I do not believe he did as much harm to the country as has Trump.

I also believe that the Democrats will retake the House in November and will be able to impeach Trump in 2019. That would be a mistake unless the case for impeachment has been made so clear by then (whether by Mueller, the press or otherwise) that mainstream Republicans will vote to convict. If it is not, and I doubt that it will be, then the House must use its subpoena power to truly investigate everything, hopefully with a planned cascading set of news stories designed not only to show the corruption of Trump but the complicity of other Republicans. Even if Fox News never covers the story information will get out. If the pressure gets greater Senate Republicans may see that a President Pence may be better for them than a wounded President Trump, and then impeachment (or resignation) would be appropriate.


cthskzfn



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PostPosted: 02/20/18 10:52 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

the weekend twitter shitstorm by the TraitorInChief just another indication that Mueller is getting closer...

drip drip drip



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justintyme



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PostPosted: 04/09/18 5:46 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

So Trump's lawyer, Michael Cohen, was raided over the Stormy Daniels payoff. That is huge.

This means it wasn't a subpoena in which they ask for him to hand over specific information, but rather a federal judge reviewed the evidence uncovered by Mueller and given to the FBI and felt there was enough probable cause of wrongdoing to issue a warrant for an all out search and seizure of a lawyer's files. Due to privilege (not just Trump but other client's who might be in those files), this is not something a judge would be rubber-stamping.



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jammerbirdi



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PostPosted: 04/09/18 6:01 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

justintyme wrote:
So Trump's lawyer, Michael Cohen, was raided over the Stormy Daniels payoff. That is huge.

This means it wasn't a subpoena in which they ask for him to hand over specific information, but rather a federal judge reviewed the evidence uncovered by Mueller and given to the FBI and felt there was enough probable cause of wrongdoing to issue a warrant for an all out search and seizure of a lawyer's files. Due to privilege (not just Trump but other client's who might be in those files), this is not something a judge would be rubber-stamping.


Could they be going after who might have threatened her in the Vegas parking lot? Like, could that have given a judge a more solid reason to approve a warrant?


justintyme



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PostPosted: 04/09/18 6:56 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

jammerbirdi wrote:
justintyme wrote:
So Trump's lawyer, Michael Cohen, was raided over the Stormy Daniels payoff. That is huge.

This means it wasn't a subpoena in which they ask for him to hand over specific information, but rather a federal judge reviewed the evidence uncovered by Mueller and given to the FBI and felt there was enough probable cause of wrongdoing to issue a warrant for an all out search and seizure of a lawyer's files. Due to privilege (not just Trump but other client's who might be in those files), this is not something a judge would be rubber-stamping.


Could they be going after who might have threatened her in the Vegas parking lot? Like, could that have given a judge a more solid reason to approve a warrant?

I'm really not sure. The big thing seems to be that this is something that Mueller uncovered, but that was outside of his mandate, so it was handed over to the FBI/US Attorney's office.

That leads me to guess (and that is all this is) that while going over finances related to the campaign for the Russia investigation they found evidence that the Daniels' payout came from campaign funds and that Cohen lied about paying out of his own pocket. This would be a major violation of campaign finance laws.



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Genero36



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PostPosted: 04/09/18 7:16 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

justintyme wrote:
So Trump's lawyer, Michael Cohen, was raided over the Stormy Daniels payoff. That is huge.

This means it wasn't a subpoena in which they ask for him to hand over specific information, but rather a federal judge reviewed the evidence uncovered by Mueller and given to the FBI and felt there was enough probable cause of wrongdoing to issue a warrant for an all out search and seizure of a lawyer's files. Due to privilege (not just Trump but other client's who might be in those files), this is not something a judge would be rubber-stamping.






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cthskzfn



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PostPosted: 05/09/18 9:17 am    ::: e Reply Reply with quote

Interesting that Stormy Davis' lawyer can get more shit on the Russian front than the House "investigation".

-------

Trump lied every 83 seconds during his drug-laden speech re US violating the Iran nuclear deal. That may be a record low for him. Another win for Putin and the Russians.


-------

Democrats leave office during the current "me too" hysteria; Republicans stay in office/get elected.



Same shit, different day.


And Mueller marches on...Very Happy



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Howee



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PostPosted: 05/10/18 12:26 am    ::: Re: e Reply Reply with quote

cthskzfn wrote:
Interesting that Stormy Davis' lawyer can get more shit on the Russian front than the House "investigation".


Orrr....it may be more a case of that lawyer is more free to disclose things about the "Russian front" as he discovers it, while Mueller is adhering to every proper protocol, so no 'leaking', etc., could diminish his final opus. Cool



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mercfan3



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PostPosted: 05/10/18 7:23 am    ::: Re: e Reply Reply with quote

Howee wrote:
cthskzfn wrote:
Interesting that Stormy Davis' lawyer can get more shit on the Russian front than the House "investigation".


Orrr....it may be more a case of that lawyer is more free to disclose things about the "Russian front" as he discovers it, while Mueller is adhering to every proper protocol, so no 'leaking', etc., could diminish his final opus. Cool


Civil suits can be more open.

What is crazy is of this is what a civil case is finding..



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cthskzfn



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PostPosted: 05/10/18 8:32 am    ::: Re: e Reply Reply with quote

Howee wrote:
cthskzfn wrote:
Interesting that Stormy Davis' lawyer can get more shit on the Russian front than the House "investigation".


Orrr....it may be more a case of that lawyer is more free to disclose things about the "Russian front" as he discovers it, while Mueller is adhering to every proper protocol, so no 'leaking', etc., could diminish his final opus. Cool



Orr, I did say the "HOUSE "investigation" ". Very Happy



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cthskzfn



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PostPosted: 05/16/18 11:11 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

my goodness, even the dimmest of the MAGA crowd has to begin to wonder about their hero...



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cthskzfn



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PostPosted: 06/04/18 7:18 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

the entire GOP should be impeached as well.

we are witnessing the biggest threat to our democratic republic since day 1.

this fucker is beyond corrupt.



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calbearman76



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PostPosted: 06/04/18 9:31 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The issue now is investigation, not impeachment. The last thing we can afford is impeachment without conviction. For everything we know today there is a whole lot more we suspect. When the Democrats take the House they can have true hearings to bring out the corruption in the election and since. Only with that type of activity will there be enough to build a case for conviction. Indeed you can look at the Senate now, at individuals like Chuck Grassley and Mitch McConnell as the people that have to be won over. These are the swing votes that will get us to 67 votes and that is a high but not unsurpassable bar. With a democratic House they could be persuaded that the Republican Party would be better served by President Mike Pence than a fully disgraced Trump. And unless those stalwarts can be convinced. impeachment is an empty gesture.


cthskzfn



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PostPosted: 06/05/18 8:05 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

thanks for the tutorial. Wink

there will be no impeachment w/ the complicit GOP in House power.

voting them out of office is the 1st step.

the investigation will continue whether or not Mueller is at the helm.

we already know of several instances of obstruction of justice.

speculation that there was conspiracy to defraud the election process and that gross corruption, bribery, etc., has occurred, is warranted.

trump's shell game distractions aim to add more suckers to the dupedplorable list.



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cthskzfn



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PostPosted: 07/18/18 7:28 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

UnsilentMajority 🌹


@The_UnSilent_
17h17 hours ago

Media: Lying

Comey: Lying

Obama: Lying

Clinton: Lying

Stormy: Lying

Strozk: Lying

Mueller: Lying

Judges: Lying

19 Sexual assault accusers: Lying

Climate change scientists: Lying

17 Intelligence agencies: Lying

Putin: “He means it, I believe him”

~ @realDonaldTrump



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cthskzfn



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PostPosted: 07/18/18 7:42 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/nra-donors-irs-maria-butina-trump-russia-spy-2016-election-a8451811.html


NRA no longer has to identify major donors to the IRS


"The decision was made public on Monday night, just as the Justice Department announced charges against Maria Butina, an alleged Russian foreign agent who embedded herself into Republican leadership circles through the NRA.

Ms Butina is accused of “infiltrating organisations having influence in American politics, for the purpose of advancing the interests of the Russian Federation”."




Just a coincidence. Wink



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mercfan3



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PostPosted: 07/18/18 4:16 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

cthskzfn wrote:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/nra-donors-irs-maria-butina-trump-russia-spy-2016-election-a8451811.html


NRA no longer has to identify major donors to the IRS


"The decision was made public on Monday night, just as the Justice Department announced charges against Maria Butina, an alleged Russian foreign agent who embedded herself into Republican leadership circles through the NRA.

Ms Butina is accused of “infiltrating organisations having influence in American politics, for the purpose of advancing the interests of the Russian Federation”."




Just a coincidence. Wink


Honestly, if this investigation takes down the NRA...I won’t even care about it taking down Donald. #agirlcandream



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StevenHW



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PostPosted: 07/18/18 6:34 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

cthskzfn wrote:
the entire GOP should be impeached as well.

we are witnessing the biggest threat to our democratic republic since day 1.

this fucker is beyond corrupt.





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cthskzfn



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PostPosted: 07/18/18 9:08 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Trump was briefed on 1/6/17 that Putin ordered the Russian hack on the election.

Laughing



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mercfan3



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PostPosted: 07/18/18 9:57 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

cthskzfn wrote:
Trump was briefed on 1/6/17 that Putin ordered the Russian hack on the election.

Laughing


He knew way before then. Laughing



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cthskzfn



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PostPosted: 07/19/18 7:11 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

mercfan3 wrote:
cthskzfn wrote:
Trump was briefed on 1/6/17 that Putin ordered the Russian hack on the election.

Laughing


He knew way before then. Laughing



Oh yeah, there's no doubt (except among Trump cultists, of course), but this is proof that he's been colluding/conspiring, on the record, at least since that date. Wink



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cthskzfn



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PostPosted: 07/19/18 9:42 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

StevenHW wrote:
cthskzfn wrote:
the entire GOP should be impeached as well.

we are witnessing the biggest threat to our democratic republic since day 1.

this fucker is beyond corrupt.






funny, sad, true.

Laughing Crying or Very sad Evil or Very Mad



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cthskzfn



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PostPosted: 07/20/18 9:22 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Those who continue to support the traitor in the WH, and/or the GOP, should just admit they don't give a shit about democracy.

Just come out and say you're fine w/ voter suppression, Russian election hacking, and treason, so long as "your side" wins.



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tfan



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PostPosted: 07/20/18 10:31 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

cthskzfn wrote:
Those who continue to support the traitor in the WH, and/or the GOP, should just admit they don't give a shit about democracy.

Just come out and say you're fine w/ voter suppression, Russian election hacking, and treason, so long as "your side" wins.


Don't let the hysteria on CNN and MSNBC distract you from this:

Russia sanctions: What you need to know

Quote:

US President Donald Trump approved fresh sanctions on Russia Wednesday after Congress showed overwhelming bipartisan support for the new measures.

Congress passed the bill last week in response to Russia's interference in the 2016 US election, as well as its human rights violations, annexation of Crimea and military operations in eastern Ukraine.


If there was voter suppression, why haven't Democrats sued to have judges make decisions on it?

Looks like there is a lot of wiggle room in the law with regard to treason:

Quote:
Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.


What in the heck kind of wording is that? It looks like it was made just so powerful people could hammer little guys they didn't like. If a soldier or army doctor helps a wounded captured soldier is he guilty of treason? Sure sounds like it.


cthskzfn



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PostPosted: 07/20/18 12:27 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:
cthskzfn wrote:
Those who continue to support the traitor in the WH, and/or the GOP, should just admit they don't give a shit about democracy.

Just come out and say you're fine w/ voter suppression, Russian election hacking, and treason, so long as "your side" wins.


Don't let the hysteria on CNN and MSNBC distract you from this:

Russia sanctions: What you need to know

Quote:

US President Donald Trump approved fresh sanctions on Russia Wednesday after Congress showed overwhelming bipartisan support for the new measures.

Congress passed the bill last week in response to Russia's interference in the 2016 US election, as well as its human rights violations, annexation of Crimea and military operations in eastern Ukraine.


If there was voter suppression, why haven't Democrats sued to have judges make decisions on it?

Looks like there is a lot of wiggle room in the law with regard to treason:

Quote:
Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.


What in the heck kind of wording is that? It looks like it was made just so powerful people could hammer little guys they didn't like. If a soldier or army doctor helps a wounded captured soldier is he guilty of treason? Sure sounds like it.



Nice window dressing by traitors Trump and McConnell, done only because of the fallout from the Putin and Puppet show in Helsinki Monday.



....We have always been at war with Eastasia.



https://thinkprogress.org/states-purged-16-million-voters-from-the-rolls-before-the-2016-election-1c5688dcaad7/

https://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/26/us/supreme-court-ruling.html

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-russia-sanctions-trump-no-new-congress-law-election-hacking-intervention-putin-kremlin-a8184866.html



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tfan



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PostPosted: 07/20/18 3:57 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

cthskzfn wrote:
tfan wrote:
cthskzfn wrote:
Those who continue to support the traitor in the WH, and/or the GOP, should just admit they don't give a shit about democracy.

Just come out and say you're fine w/ voter suppression, Russian election hacking, and treason, so long as "your side" wins.


Don't let the hysteria on CNN and MSNBC distract you from this:

Russia sanctions: What you need to know

Quote:

US President Donald Trump approved fresh sanctions on Russia Wednesday after Congress showed overwhelming bipartisan support for the new measures.

Congress passed the bill last week in response to Russia's interference in the 2016 US election, as well as its human rights violations, annexation of Crimea and military operations in eastern Ukraine.


If there was voter suppression, why haven't Democrats sued to have judges make decisions on it?

Looks like there is a lot of wiggle room in the law with regard to treason:

Quote:
Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.


What in the heck kind of wording is that? It looks like it was made just so powerful people could hammer little guys they didn't like. If a soldier or army doctor helps a wounded captured soldier is he guilty of treason? Sure sounds like it.



Nice window dressing by traitors Trump and McConnell, done only because of the fallout from the Putin and Puppet show in Helsinki Monday.


That legislation is from last summer.


cthskzfn



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PostPosted: 07/23/18 8:34 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:
cthskzfn wrote:
tfan wrote:
cthskzfn wrote:
Those who continue to support the traitor in the WH, and/or the GOP, should just admit they don't give a shit about democracy.

Just come out and say you're fine w/ voter suppression, Russian election hacking, and treason, so long as "your side" wins.


Don't let the hysteria on CNN and MSNBC distract you from this:

Russia sanctions: What you need to know

Quote:

US President Donald Trump approved fresh sanctions on Russia Wednesday after Congress showed overwhelming bipartisan support for the new measures.

Congress passed the bill last week in response to Russia's interference in the 2016 US election, as well as its human rights violations, annexation of Crimea and military operations in eastern Ukraine.


If there was voter suppression, why haven't Democrats sued to have judges make decisions on it?

Looks like there is a lot of wiggle room in the law with regard to treason:

Quote:
Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.


What in the heck kind of wording is that? It looks like it was made just so powerful people could hammer little guys they didn't like. If a soldier or army doctor helps a wounded captured soldier is he guilty of treason? Sure sounds like it.



Nice window dressing by traitors Trump and McConnell, done only because of the fallout from the Putin and Puppet show in Helsinki Monday.


That legislation is from last summer.



https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-russia-sanctions-trump-no-new-congress-law-election-hacking-intervention-putin-kremlin-a8184866.html

https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/11/politics/us-russia-cyber-sanctions/index.html



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cthskzfn



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PostPosted: 07/23/18 8:40 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2018/07/20/the-entire-republican-party-is-becoming-a-russian-asset/?utm_term=.a6026c86a428


The entire Republican Party is becoming a Russian asset



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PostPosted: 07/23/18 9:12 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Man, Trump must be shitting his pants, based on this morning's twitter shitstorm. LOL.

All caps! Gee Donny, you must be serious!



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PostPosted: 07/23/18 9:29 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote




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PostPosted: 07/24/18 7:25 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

btw, Iran has not allowed Twitter since 2009(?). so your little tantrum was all for show, just for the base. egads, he's one stupid traitorous POS!

btw, he also is too stupid to know that Comey & McCabe had their security clearances already pulled when they were dismissed. this is no more than his always threatening to sue people. he never does cuz he doesn't want to open himself up to any sort of discovery.

I almost choked when Fuckabee was spouting her lies about how the prez was mad cuz they were monetizing their positions. seriously. you can't make this shit up. Emoluments, anyone?



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PostPosted: 07/24/18 8:52 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

scullyfu wrote:
btw, Iran has not allowed Twitter since 2009(?). so your little tantrum was all for show, just for the base.


All of Trump's public statements are just for show. That's why he says so many contradictory things. He doesn't mean any of it, he just says what people want to hear.



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PostPosted: 07/24/18 12:16 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

scullyfu wrote:
btw, Iran has not allowed Twitter since 2009(?). so your little tantrum was all for show, just for the base. egads, he's one stupid traitorous POS!

btw, he also is too stupid to know that Comey & McCabe had their security clearances already pulled when they were dismissed. this is no more than his always threatening to sue people. he never does cuz he doesn't want to open himself up to any sort of discovery.

I almost choked when Fuckabee was spouting her lies about how the prez was mad cuz they were monetizing their positions. seriously. you can't make this shit up. Emoluments, anyone?



Yes. And where is the press when Sarah Suckaball Sanders, et al, lies out her ass and wandering eye? Sitting there with their thumbs up their ass because "access" is so much more critical than truth, democracy, and the republic.



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PostPosted: 07/26/18 8:27 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/26/politics/michael-cohen-donald-trump-june-2016-meeting-knowledge/index.html


Cohen claims Trump knew in advance of Trump Tower meeting in June, 2016.


Laughing

drip drip drip



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PostPosted: 07/26/18 8:31 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

cthskzfn wrote:
https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/26/politics/michael-cohen-donald-trump-june-2016-meeting-knowledge/index.html


Cohen claims Trump knew in advance of Trump Tower meeting in June, 2016.


Laughing

drip drip drip



Laughing Laughing

Granted, I honestly believe Mueller already has Donald. I think he is digging deeper.



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PostPosted: 07/26/18 8:37 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

mercfan3 wrote:
cthskzfn wrote:
https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/26/politics/michael-cohen-donald-trump-june-2016-meeting-knowledge/index.html


Cohen claims Trump knew in advance of Trump Tower meeting in June, 2016.


Laughing

drip drip drip



Laughing Laughing

Granted, I honestly believe Mueller already has Donald. I think he is digging deeper.




Hmm, Cohen's lawyer says he didn't leak this info; infers Trump's side did. Hmmm.



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PostPosted: 07/26/18 8:50 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

cthskzfn wrote:
mercfan3 wrote:
cthskzfn wrote:
https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/26/politics/michael-cohen-donald-trump-june-2016-meeting-knowledge/index.html


Cohen claims Trump knew in advance of Trump Tower meeting in June, 2016.


Laughing

drip drip drip



Laughing Laughing

Granted, I honestly believe Mueller already has Donald. I think he is digging deeper.




Hmm, Cohen's lawyer says he didn't leak this info; infers Trump's side did. Hmmm.


Stupid Watergate



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PostPosted: 07/26/18 10:51 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Mueller isn't investigating Cohen. The NYC US Attorney is, but not for Russian collusion. That's Mueller's bailiwick. So what's the importance of this Trump Tower meeting story to the NYC US Attorney's investigation?

And again, it's just another anti-Trump story from another unnamed source.

Finally, even if the story is true, so what? The meeting was perfectly legal and absolutely nothing came of it.

If Cohen said this, of which I'm very skeptical, I read it as a pathetic attempt to get a pardon from Trump.
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PostPosted: 07/26/18 11:50 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GlennMacGrady wrote:
Finally, even if the story is true, so what? The meeting was perfectly legal and absolutely nothing came of it.


Well....

Quote:
Trump has repeatedly denied having any knowledge about the meeting and told The New York Times in July 2017 that he “didn’t know anything” about it.


Obviously, the Liar in Chief lied about the event, saying he didn't know about it, when he DID. Why would he lie? Cuz the truth reveals he DID collude with/condoned/encouraged Russians to interfere, maybe?? Why do people excuse this constant barrage of LIES?



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PostPosted: 07/27/18 12:01 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GlennMacGrady wrote:
Mueller isn't investigating Cohen. The NYC US Attorney is, but not for Russian collusion. That's Mueller's bailiwick. So what's the importance of this Trump Tower meeting story to the NYC US Attorney's investigation?

And again, it's just another anti-Trump story from another unnamed source.

Finally, even if the story is true, so what? The meeting was perfectly legal and absolutely nothing came of it.

If Cohen said this, of which I'm very skeptical, I read it as a pathetic attempt to get a pardon from Trump.


Your position seems to be that continual lying about the meeting, including testimony in front of Congressional committees by Donald Jr. is nothing. Continual lying by Trump throughout the campaign and his presidency about ties to Russia is nothing.

And as for Cohen being investigated by the AG's office in Southern New York just because they aren't directly looking into the Russian issue doesn't mean that this information is not germane. If anything it shows that this isn't just a witch hunt by Mueller.

I am not going to jump to the conclusion that this proves guilt; Cohen's credibility by itself is not sufficient evidence given all of his previous lies.

But if it is true it proves that Trump has consistently lied about the meeting and more broadly about Russian ties to him and his campaign. It also puts his Trump's comments about him getting ready to deliver a speech about Hillary Clinton on June 7 (after the meeting had been set up and 2 days before it was held) into clearer perspective.

It seems we have come to a point where Trump supporters no longer care about lying by the President. There is no need for truth when the President is on your side. If that is the position of enough of this country then we are in very sad shape.

When it comes to President Obama, his lie about being able to keep your doctor became a rallying cry for years. (This wasn't really a lie, but it was certainly a gross simplification of a complex issue, and as such was intended to mislead people into believing Obamacare would be a panacea) But there were very few lies and there was actual attempt to stay within the bounds of the truth.. The entire Benghazi investigation seems to surround whether in the first few days Susan Rice was sent out to give a false statement on the reasons for the attack on the Sunday news shows. He answer was perhaps only partially true (contemporaneous notes have shown that her answers followed the approved statements) but they are somewhat different from what Clinton said in a few e-mails.


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PostPosted: 07/27/18 6:12 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GlennMacGrady wrote:
Mueller isn't investigating Cohen. The NYC US Attorney is, but not for Russian collusion. That's Mueller's bailiwick. So what's the importance of this Trump Tower meeting story to the NYC US Attorney's investigation?

And again, it's just another anti-Trump story from another unnamed source.

Finally, even if the story is true, so what? The meeting was perfectly legal and absolutely nothing came of it.

If Cohen said this, of which I'm very skeptical, I read it as a pathetic attempt to get a pardon from Trump.




July 11, 2017

http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-trump-russians-legal-analysis-20170711-story.html


Federal law makes it a crime for any person to "solicit, accept or receive" a contribution or "anything of value" from a foreign person for a U.S. political campaign or "for the purpose of influencing any election for federal office."



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PostPosted: 07/27/18 10:01 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

cthskzfn wrote:
GlennMacGrady wrote:
Mueller isn't investigating Cohen. The NYC US Attorney is, but not for Russian collusion. That's Mueller's bailiwick. So what's the importance of this Trump Tower meeting story to the NYC US Attorney's investigation?

And again, it's just another anti-Trump story from another unnamed source.

Finally, even if the story is true, so what? The meeting was perfectly legal and absolutely nothing came of it.

If Cohen said this, of which I'm very skeptical, I read it as a pathetic attempt to get a pardon from Trump.




July 11, 2017

http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-trump-russians-legal-analysis-20170711-story.html


Federal law makes it a crime for any person to "solicit, accept or receive" a contribution or "anything of value" from a foreign person for a U.S. political campaign or "for the purpose of influencing any election for federal office."


So?

Here's the complete statute, which was adopted in 1976 primarily to deter multinational foreign corporations from contributing money to U.S. campaigns:

"It shall be unlawful for a foreign national directly or through any other person to make any contribution of money or other thing of value, or to promise expressly or impliedly to make any such contribution, in connection with an election to any political office or in connection with any primary election, convention, or caucus held to select candidates for any political office; or for any person to solicit, accept, or receive any such contribution from a foreign national."

The phrase "other thing of value" means some financial equivalent of money, such as "loans, gifts, deposits, guarantees, subscriptions, and any type of security."

https://www.law.upenn.edu/journals/jil/articles/volume17/issue3/Powell17U.Pa.J.Int%27lEcon.L.957(1996).pdf

This phrase "other thing of value" has never been interpreted by the FEC or a court to mean opposition research dirt. If it had been so interpreted, then the clearest violation of such an interpretation would be the Steele Dossier, which is replete with unverified dirt on Trump and his associates compiled by a British source entirely from anonymous Russian sources, and which was solicited, accepted, received and paid for by the DNC and Clinton campaigns.

I'm not aware of any evidence that anyone involved in the Trump Tower meeting solicited, accepted, or received any money or monetary equivalent from a foreign source at that meeting or as a result of it. The evidence is that the meeting was solely about adoptions and the Maginsky Act, and that the Trump contingent was uninterested and walked out.

Finally, even in those cases where the statute is clearly violated, it is almost always treated as a civil matter by the FEC, which may impose some fines or civil penalties, not as a criminal matter by a special DOJ prosecutor.

If there's a link to a serious legal analysis that contradicts mine, I'd be interested in seeing it. Conclusory or speculative sound bites from politically partisan lawyers in superficial media stories don't qualify.
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PostPosted: 07/27/18 11:06 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GlennMacGrady wrote:
If there's a link to a serious legal analysis that contradicts mine, I'd be interested in seeing it. Conclusory or speculative sound bites from politically partisan lawyers in superficial media stories don't qualify.

Seriously? You need a "link"?

You can parse all the legalese you might want to support your logic, or contradict others. Just tell me this: WHY would Donald Trump have LIED ABOUT KNOWLEDGE OF THE MEETING??

The nature and details of the meeting clearly warranted enough concern on his part to lie about his knowledge of it. Lock. Him. Up. Cool



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PostPosted: 07/27/18 11:56 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Howee wrote:
WHY would Donald Trump have LIED ABOUT KNOWLEDGE OF THE MEETING??


Exactly.

First, he has no reason to lie about knowing of the meeting because there was nothing illegal, immoral or fattening about the meeting -- even if it had been about getting dirt on Hillary Clinton, which it wasn't according to all evidence.

Second, there is no credible evidence that Trump has lied about not knowing about the meeting. He has said he didn't know, his son has testified before Congress (and probably the same in his subject-to-perjury interview with the FBI/Mueller) that Trump didn't know, and no one who was at the meeting has contradicted this.

Third, why would you believe there is any credible evidence that Trump lied about his knowledge? All we have is one recent anonymous source who says Cohen has contradictory knowledge. Cohen hasn't verified this. Cohen's lawyer hasn't verified this, but is just letting the unsourced allegation hang out there. To me, the overwhelming credible evidence from known sources is that Trump did not know about the meeting.

Finally, even if Trump has lied to the press about his knowledge of the meeting, that's not illegal either. Politicians and other public figures lie to the press about all sorts of things all the time.

If you don't like serious legal analyses, here's the summary: The Trump Tower meeting was a complete nothingburger, and the anonymously sourced claim that Cohen has information that contradicts the two Dons would not be admitted in any court.

Do you all prefer your nothingburgers with cheese, ketchup or onions . . . or only with obsessions?
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PostPosted: 07/27/18 2:00 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Quote:
To me, the overwhelming credible evidence from known sources is that Trump did not know about the meeting.


Talk about "obsession"....this is where your "Prove to me the sky is blue" via legal parsing is your undoing.

Donald J. Trump knew exactly when, where, and how everyone--certainly his SONS--pissed and shit, and who had the chicken salad. If you think for one minute such a meeting was done without his knowledge, let alone without his direct orders, then you may be beyond any help. Laughing



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PostPosted: 07/27/18 5:45 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Howee wrote:
Quote:
To me, the overwhelming credible evidence from known sources is that Trump did not know about the meeting.


Talk about "obsession"....this is where your "Prove to me the sky is blue" via legal parsing is your undoing.

Donald J. Trump knew exactly when, where, and how everyone--certainly his SONS--pissed and shit, and who had the chicken salad. If you think for one minute such a meeting was done without his knowledge, let alone without his direct orders, then you may be beyond any help. Laughing



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PostPosted: 07/27/18 7:50 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Trump is a know-nothing. Trump is a know-everything. What a contradictory guy!

If he knows so much, doesn't he know that Kimberly Guilfoyle is too old for junior.
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PostPosted: 07/27/18 9:01 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GlennMacGrady wrote:
Trump is a know-nothing. Trump is a know-everything. What a contradictory guy!

If he knows so much, doesn't he know that Kimberly Guilfoyle is too old for junior.

He knows nothing about policy.

Knows a lot about marketing and is a fantastic con-man.



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PostPosted: 07/27/18 9:37 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GlennMacGrady wrote:
Trump is a know-nothing.


He certainly uses much of the same rhetoric that the know-nothings did



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