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2 Oregon vs 1 Notre Dame 3/26 9 PM ET
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Who wins
Oregon
52%
 52%  [ 12 ]
Notre Dame
47%
 47%  [ 11 ]
Total Votes : 23

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zune69



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PostPosted: 03/28/18 10:24 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

WNBA 09 wrote:
Oregon had no Answer for shephard and they could not keep Jackie off the glass. Comes down to Notre Dame just having more elite level athletes than oregon.


Shephard was good(7-17).Young was good,but erratic with her shot(only scored 8 pts)...Westbeld scored nearly 3x her average.A 7 ppg scorer dropping 20 pts is a game changer.Shepard scoring 15-20 pts is expected.Westbeld going off for 20 on 9-12 was a huge bonus.And lets not forget that Ogunbowale only shot 6-19....ND was down six at the half.Westbeld score 12 second half points while Ionescu was throwing up bricks.

Shephard,Young,Ogunbowale,and Mabrey all contributed to the win...I just thought the 2nd half performances of Westbeld/Ionescu is what decided the basketball game.




Last edited by zune69 on 03/28/18 12:39 pm; edited 1 time in total
myrtle



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PostPosted: 03/28/18 10:28 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Ex-Ref wrote:
linkster wrote:
Ex-Ref wrote:
linkster wrote:
If anything it's a foul on Mabrey for gabbing Ionescu's arm as she ran by.


Is there anything about ND that you won't bitch about?

It's really getting old.


There's a lot about N Dame I admire but their fans here already do a real good job of promoting those attributes.
I'd have to go back and read the posts but I think I was responding to a post that blamed the wrong person for the incident. As a matter of fact even the play by play announcers initially suggested that Mabrey was the victim until the correct angle replay CLEARLY showed Mabrey with her right hand firmly grasping Ionescu's arm as Ionescu went by her.



You mean the one where MM's grabbing SI with the BACK of her hand? Rolling Eyes

You need to look at it again in slo-mo, frame by frame or something (hell, you can even see it with ESPN's slo-mo) and see that MM's upper arm is extended behind her, her lower arm is angled down and her hand is bent up at the wrist. SI's arm is below MM's. No fucking way MM grabbed her.

The asshole announcer needs to keep his mouth shut and stop talking about something that he can't see (because it didn't happen).


Perhaps you need to put your sunshades back over your homer eyeballs. I see it like the announcer and Linkster. It was an IO brush by, which may or may not have been intentional but the hand out by MM looked definitely intentional. I like MM but she does instigate and she does flop and she does whine - in spite of all that I still enjoy seeing her play. Anyway it's long in the past and it had little to no bearing on the outcome, so why get your panties in a twist about it?



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Last edited by myrtle on 03/28/18 10:43 am; edited 1 time in total
myrtle



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PostPosted: 03/28/18 10:36 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
zune69 wrote:


1.Elite PG

2.Elite post player



1 Oregon certainly has one elite guard, but I'm not sure I'd call her an elite POINT guard. And ND certainly had a superior SET of guards.

2 I can't agree at all with that characterization, and no matter how you choose to overrate her, she was still not as good as Shepard, which should have been obvious before the game started.


wow. you really think Shepard is better than Hebard? This made me snort my morning tea. IMO Shepard provides a function and is a big body with good hands but Hebard has much more skill and is certainly in way better shape. In this game Graves put her in the untenable position of trying to guard two posts at once.



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zune69



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PostPosted: 03/28/18 10:53 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
zune69 wrote:


1.Elite PG

2.Elite post player



1 Oregon certainly has one elite guard, but I'm not sure I'd call her an elite POINT guard. And ND certainly had a superior SET of guards.

2 I can't agree at all with that characterization, and no matter how you choose to overrate her, she was still not as good as Shepard, which should have been obvious before the game started.


1.We agree to disagree...Ionescu doesn't have the great athletic ability or lightning speed that some pg's have but her size,passing ability,rebounding,and high I.q are elite...298a/114t is damn good for a Sophomore.

2.I never said Hebard was better than Shepard(I'd still take Hebard > Shephard).However Hebard did put up 17/10 despite being doubled all night.Hebard IMO is a future 1st rd pick.She impacts the game on both ends of the court,and she's only a Sophomore.

If Ionescu/Hebard aren't elite level college players at their positions,then who is ?




Last edited by zune69 on 03/29/18 9:19 am; edited 2 times in total
WNBA 09



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PostPosted: 03/28/18 2:11 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

zune69 wrote:
ArtBest23 wrote:
zune69 wrote:


1.Elite PG

2.Elite post player



1 Oregon certainly has one elite guard, but I'm not sure I'd call her an elite POINT guard. And ND certainly had a superior SET of guards.

2 I can't agree at all with that characterization, and no matter how you choose to overrate her, she was still not as good as Shepard, which should have been obvious before the game started.


1.We agree to disagree...Ionescu doesn't have the great athletic ability or lightning speed that some pg's have but her size,passing ability,rebounding,and high I.q are elite...298a/114t is damn good for a Sophomore.

2.I never said Hebard was better than Shepard(I'd still take Hebard > Shephard).However Hebard did put up 17/10 despite being doubled all night.Hebard IMO is a future 1st rd pick.She impacts the game on both ends of the court,and she's only a Sophomore.

If Ionescu/Hebard aren't elite level college players at their positions,than who is ?


Players who play both sides of the ball .Both are elite players in my mind though , but Notre dame had more elite level players than oregon .



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linkster



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PostPosted: 03/28/18 5:23 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The main difference between the teams is that one is filled with upper classmen and the other is filled with lower classmen.


WNBA 09



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PostPosted: 03/28/18 7:00 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

linkster wrote:
The main difference between the teams is that one is filled with upper classmen and the other is filled with lower classmen.


Mabrey - Junior
Og- Junior
Young - Soph
Westbeld - Senior
Shephard - Junior


Pretty young to me .....



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Fighting Artichoke



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PostPosted: 03/28/18 7:18 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Cazorla Junior
Ionescu Soph
Bando Senior
Sabally Fresh
Hebard Soph

So ND is more experienced:

ND____UO
Senior Senior
Junior Junior
Junior Soph
Junior Soph
Soph Fresh


Ex-Ref



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PostPosted: 03/28/18 8:33 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

myrtle wrote:
Ex-Ref wrote:
linkster wrote:
Ex-Ref wrote:
linkster wrote:
If anything it's a foul on Mabrey for gabbing Ionescu's arm as she ran by.


Is there anything about ND that you won't bitch about?

It's really getting old.


There's a lot about N Dame I admire but their fans here already do a real good job of promoting those attributes.
I'd have to go back and read the posts but I think I was responding to a post that blamed the wrong person for the incident. As a matter of fact even the play by play announcers initially suggested that Mabrey was the victim until the correct angle replay CLEARLY showed Mabrey with her right hand firmly grasping Ionescu's arm as Ionescu went by her.



You mean the one where MM's grabbing SI with the BACK of her hand? Rolling Eyes

You need to look at it again in slo-mo, frame by frame or something (hell, you can even see it with ESPN's slo-mo) and see that MM's upper arm is extended behind her, her lower arm is angled down and her hand is bent up at the wrist. SI's arm is below MM's. No fucking way MM grabbed her.

The asshole announcer needs to keep his mouth shut and stop talking about something that he can't see (because it didn't happen).


Perhaps you need to put your sunshades back over your homer eyeballs. I see it like the announcer and Linkster. It was an IO brush by, which may or may not have been intentional but the hand out by MM looked definitely intentional. I like MM but she does instigate and she does flop and she does whine - in spite of all that I still enjoy seeing her play. Anyway it's long in the past and it had little to no bearing on the outcome, so why get your panties in a twist about it?


Did you even watch the replays? The three views that I got on my ESPN feed (I have NO idea what you got) didn't show anything close to MM grabbing SI's arm. In fact, now that I re-watch it (for probably the 20th time) and stop it, the one from the near baseline clearly shows SI running straight into MM's arm. She didn't even try to avoid her. Just ran right into her like she didn't even know, or care, that she was there.

I sure hope that she doesn't drive like that. Shocked



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PostPosted: 03/28/18 11:10 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

(Why is this 'incident' debate still alive?? It was all a *nothingburger* re: cause OR effect! Laughing )

So I'm finally chipping in my 2 cents on the game. I was HEAVILY rooting for Oregon, of course. Kelly & Crew have been amazing, and really deserve to go to the next level. Obviously, Muff and Co. richly deserve this, too, but I'm always for underdogs. Cool

My take on the game was that the Final X Factor was simply more experience in the critical junctures of crucial games like this one. ND had the edge there. No shame in either performance, though there were some headscratching moments, LOL.

Re: the Hebard/Shepard discussion--really?? One has a brighter future by far, and her initials are "Ruthy". Wink



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ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 03/29/18 6:11 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

myrtle wrote:
ArtBest23 wrote:
zune69 wrote:


1.Elite PG

2.Elite post player



1 Oregon certainly has one elite guard, but I'm not sure I'd call her an elite POINT guard. And ND certainly had a superior SET of guards.

2 I can't agree at all with that characterization, and no matter how you choose to overrate her, she was still not as good as Shepard, which should have been obvious before the game started.


wow. you really think Shepard is better than Hebard? This made moYe snort my morning tea. IMO Shepard provides a function and is a big body with good hands but Hebard has much more skill and is certainly in way better shape. In this game Graves put her in the untenable position of trying to guard two posts at once.


Yes. I do. And I don't think it's close.
If you recall Shepard was both B10 FOY and first team all B10 as a freshman. She's been playing at an elite level for quite a while. And her interior footwork with and without the ball is as good as any big in the country. She's not remotely just a "big body". Hebard is more athletic. Shepard is a better basketball player.


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PostPosted: 03/29/18 7:23 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

zune69 wrote:

If Ionescu/Hebard aren't elite level college players at their positions,than who is ?


Nobody's criticizing them, but I'll happily match them against Ogunbowale and Shepard. And unfortunately for Oregon, the game isn't 2x2.


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PostPosted: 03/29/18 8:10 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
myrtle wrote:
ArtBest23 wrote:
zune69 wrote:


1.Elite PG

2.Elite post player



1 Oregon certainly has one elite guard, but I'm not sure I'd call her an elite POINT guard. And ND certainly had a superior SET of guards.

2 I can't agree at all with that characterization, and no matter how you choose to overrate her, she was still not as good as Shepard, which should have been obvious before the game started.


wow. you really think Shepard is better than Hebard? This made moYe snort my morning tea. IMO Shepard provides a function and is a big body with good hands but Hebard has much more skill and is certainly in way better shape. In this game Graves put her in the untenable position of trying to guard two posts at once.


Yes. I do. And I don't think it's close.
If you recall Shepard was both B10 FOY and first team all B10 as a freshman. She's been playing at an elite level for quite a while. And her interior footwork with and without the ball is as good as any big in the country. She's not remotely just a "big body". Hebard is more athletic. Shepard is a better basketball player.


It doesn't take much to win B1G FOY or 1st Team All B1G. Plus I get a kick out of how Nebraska went from 3-13 to 11-5 in the Big Ten after losing Shephard, so I like to assume that means Shephard is worth -8 wins, even if that's a fallacy. Smile


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PostPosted: 03/29/18 9:49 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

SpaceJunkie wrote:
It doesn't take much to win B1G FOY or 1st Team All B1G. Plus I get a kick out of how Nebraska went from 3-13 to 11-5 in the Big Ten after losing Shephard, so I like to assume that means Shephard is worth -8 wins, even if that's a fallacy. Smile


Yeah, really....that one puzzled me, too. Shocked
(I also think ND needs a new tape measure: in the LaChina interview, where Jess and Brianna are side by side, Bri is clearly taller. Even though Jess is listed as "6-4", and Bri is "6-3". Laughing)

But in the Ruth/Jess comparison, just the simplest 'eye test' confirms it: Season stats--Ruthy: 17/9, Jess: 15/8--basically, a wash. But Ruthy was the second leading scorer on a team that won their P5 conference outright. Jess, no.

I'd think any wnba coach would agree: Jess is seeing her best NOW, Ruthy has a huge upside for the next 10 years.



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PostPosted: 03/29/18 10:34 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Howee wrote:
(Why is this 'incident' debate still alive?? It was all a *nothingburger* re: cause OR effect! Laughing )

So I'm finally chipping in my 2 cents on the game. I was HEAVILY rooting for Oregon, of course. Kelly & Crew have been amazing, and really deserve to go to the next level. Obviously, Muff and Co. richly deserve this, too, but I'm always for underdogs. Cool

My take on the game was that the Final X Factor was simply more experience in the critical junctures of crucial games like this one. ND had the edge there. No shame in either performance, though there were some headscratching moments, LOL.

Re: the Hebard/Shepard discussion--really?? One has a brighter future by far, and her initials are "Ruthy". Wink


Because there's still some misinformation out there that MM grabbed SI, when the replays clearly show that she didn't.



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ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 03/29/18 10:36 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Howee wrote:


Re: the Hebard/Shepard discussion--really?? One has a brighter future by far, and her initials are "Ruthy". Wink


Howee wrote:

I'd think any wnba coach would agree: Jess is seeing her best NOW, Ruthy has a huge upside for the next 10 years.


Of course the ENTIRE point of the discussion was whether it should have been predictable that ND would win in Mach 2018.

Unless you thought we were just offering mindless speculation about some 2028 WNBA game.

Not Shepards's fault she has more than one decent teammate with whom she can share the load and the stats. Given that team gap, the statistical gap is surprisingly insignificantly tiny.

I think the word you were searching for to describe your "test," was "simplistic", not "simplest". Just think, if ND and Louisville were in the PAC, Oregon would have finished third.

BTW, I was waiting for your last post of the season addressing again what a brilliant coach Aston is. I must have missed it.


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PostPosted: 03/29/18 10:46 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Howee wrote:
SpaceJunkie wrote:
It doesn't take much to win B1G FOY or 1st Team All B1G. Plus I get a kick out of how Nebraska went from 3-13 to 11-5 in the Big Ten after losing Shephard, so I like to assume that means Shephard is worth -8 wins, even if that's a fallacy. Smile


Yeah, really....that one puzzled me, too. Shocked
(I also think ND needs a new tape measure: in the LaChina interview, where Jess and Brianna are side by side, Bri is clearly taller. Even though Jess is listed as "6-4", and Bri is "6-3". Laughing)

But in the Ruth/Jess comparison, just the simplest 'eye test' confirms it: Season stats--Ruthy: 17/9, Jess: 15/8--basically, a wash. But Ruthy was the second leading scorer on a team that won their P5 conference outright. Jess, no.

I'd think any wnba coach would agree: Jess is seeing her best NOW, Ruthy has a huge upside for the next 10 years.


Howee, maybe Ruthy is better than Shep, but the argument you present doesn't make much sense. Yes, Oregon won their P5 conference, but that's perhaps because there was no 1-seed in the conference. Oregon was 0-3 against 1-seeds this season (lost to Miss. St, Louisville and ND). ND was also 0-3 (UConn, Louisville twice), but 2 of those losses were in conference, which is why Notre Dame lost their conference tournament didn't win their regular season tournament outright. Of course they were regular season co-champs of the ACC and won both their games against PAC12 foes (Oregon St. and Oregon), and both games were on the left coast. Notre Dame also had the toughest schedule and only had those losses to fellow 1-seeds, whereas Oregon lost 2 games to teams that were not 1-seeds.


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PostPosted: 03/29/18 11:28 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Ex-Ref wrote:
myrtle wrote:
Ex-Ref wrote:
linkster wrote:
Ex-Ref wrote:
linkster wrote:
If anything it's a foul on Mabrey for gabbing Ionescu's arm as she ran by.


Is there anything about ND that you won't bitch about?

It's really getting old.


There's a lot about N Dame I admire but their fans here already do a real good job of promoting those attributes.
I'd have to go back and read the posts but I think I was responding to a post that blamed the wrong person for the incident. As a matter of fact even the play by play announcers initially suggested that Mabrey was the victim until the correct angle replay CLEARLY showed Mabrey with her right hand firmly grasping Ionescu's arm as Ionescu went by her.



You mean the one where MM's grabbing SI with the BACK of her hand? Rolling Eyes

You need to look at it again in slo-mo, frame by frame or something (hell, you can even see it with ESPN's slo-mo) and see that MM's upper arm is extended behind her, her lower arm is angled down and her hand is bent up at the wrist. SI's arm is below MM's. No fucking way MM grabbed her.

The asshole announcer needs to keep his mouth shut and stop talking about something that he can't see (because it didn't happen).


Perhaps you need to put your sunshades back over your homer eyeballs. I see it like the announcer and Linkster. It was an IO brush by, which may or may not have been intentional but the hand out by MM looked definitely intentional. I like MM but she does instigate and she does flop and she does whine - in spite of all that I still enjoy seeing her play. Anyway it's long in the past and it had little to no bearing on the outcome, so why get your panties in a twist about it?


Did you even watch the replays? The three views that I got on my ESPN feed (I have NO idea what you got) didn't show anything close to MM grabbing SI's arm. In fact, now that I re-watch it (for probably the 20th time) and stop it, the one from the near baseline clearly shows SI running straight into MM's arm. She didn't even try to avoid her. Just ran right into her like she didn't even know, or care, that she was there.

I sure hope that she doesn't drive like that. Shocked


When did this non/incident occur? I finally have time to watch the game. I listened to it live returning from Albany.



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PostPosted: 03/29/18 12:15 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

linkster wrote:
Yeah, If Warlick had the players that chose UConn Tenn's offense would look just as polished as UConn's looked last night.

And if those same players had chosen Notre Dame then the Irish would have had the top defensive team in the country.


You do realize that a good part of ND's defensive struggles come from having just 7 scholarship players, right? That's what keeps ND in zones so much this year.

It also doesn't help when your top 3 defensive players are on the bench injured with ACLs, and freshman Vaughn wasn't exactly a slouch in shot blocking either, for a freshman who just played 6 games.

And although I don't agree with it, I think the person with the UT comment was thinking back to the days when Summitt would win through having superior athletes who would basically win with defense and rebounding. Even in UT's heyday, they didn't have a crisp halfcourt offense. Remember when Summitt invited Harry Perretta over to give her some pointers on running half court sets?

IMO, that model won't win many elite games anymore, because there is too much talent out there at teams who have coaches who know how to run offenses. It only really works if you teams athletic talent is best across the board. And it especially won't work against today's UConn. It worked sometimes with UConn of 10-20 years ago when they could have teams more talented, but not with the modern version.


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PostPosted: 03/29/18 12:47 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

cthskzfn wrote:
Ex-Ref wrote:
myrtle wrote:
Ex-Ref wrote:
linkster wrote:
Ex-Ref wrote:
linkster wrote:
If anything it's a foul on Mabrey for gabbing Ionescu's arm as she ran by.


Is there anything about ND that you won't bitch about?

It's really getting old.


There's a lot about N Dame I admire but their fans here already do a real good job of promoting those attributes.
I'd have to go back and read the posts but I think I was responding to a post that blamed the wrong person for the incident. As a matter of fact even the play by play announcers initially suggested that Mabrey was the victim until the correct angle replay CLEARLY showed Mabrey with her right hand firmly grasping Ionescu's arm as Ionescu went by her.



You mean the one where MM's grabbing SI with the BACK of her hand? Rolling Eyes

You need to look at it again in slo-mo, frame by frame or something (hell, you can even see it with ESPN's slo-mo) and see that MM's upper arm is extended behind her, her lower arm is angled down and her hand is bent up at the wrist. SI's arm is below MM's. No fucking way MM grabbed her.

The asshole announcer needs to keep his mouth shut and stop talking about something that he can't see (because it didn't happen).


Perhaps you need to put your sunshades back over your homer eyeballs. I see it like the announcer and Linkster. It was an IO brush by, which may or may not have been intentional but the hand out by MM looked definitely intentional. I like MM but she does instigate and she does flop and she does whine - in spite of all that I still enjoy seeing her play. Anyway it's long in the past and it had little to no bearing on the outcome, so why get your panties in a twist about it?


Did you even watch the replays? The three views that I got on my ESPN feed (I have NO idea what you got) didn't show anything close to MM grabbing SI's arm. In fact, now that I re-watch it (for probably the 20th time) and stop it, the one from the near baseline clearly shows SI running straight into MM's arm. She didn't even try to avoid her. Just ran right into her like she didn't even know, or care, that she was there.

I sure hope that she doesn't drive like that. Shocked


When did this non/incident occur? I finally have time to watch the game. I listened to it live returning from Albany.



About 9:29 of the 4th quarter. Replays are at 9:25.

BTW, the shot clock operator was a little slow on the trigger. Ball was touched on court at really, really, really, really, really, really close to 9:28. Shot clock didn't start until 2 seconds later.



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PostPosted: 03/29/18 1:01 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Ex-Ref wrote:
cthskzfn wrote:
Ex-Ref wrote:
myrtle wrote:
Ex-Ref wrote:
linkster wrote:
Ex-Ref wrote:
linkster wrote:
If anything it's a foul on Mabrey for gabbing Ionescu's arm as she ran by.


Is there anything about ND that you won't bitch about?

It's really getting old.


There's a lot about N Dame I admire but their fans here already do a real good job of promoting those attributes.
I'd have to go back and read the posts but I think I was responding to a post that blamed the wrong person for the incident. As a matter of fact even the play by play announcers initially suggested that Mabrey was the victim until the correct angle replay CLEARLY showed Mabrey with her right hand firmly grasping Ionescu's arm as Ionescu went by her.



You mean the one where MM's grabbing SI with the BACK of her hand? Rolling Eyes

You need to look at it again in slo-mo, frame by frame or something (hell, you can even see it with ESPN's slo-mo) and see that MM's upper arm is extended behind her, her lower arm is angled down and her hand is bent up at the wrist. SI's arm is below MM's. No fucking way MM grabbed her.

The asshole announcer needs to keep his mouth shut and stop talking about something that he can't see (because it didn't happen).


Perhaps you need to put your sunshades back over your homer eyeballs. I see it like the announcer and Linkster. It was an IO brush by, which may or may not have been intentional but the hand out by MM looked definitely intentional. I like MM but she does instigate and she does flop and she does whine - in spite of all that I still enjoy seeing her play. Anyway it's long in the past and it had little to no bearing on the outcome, so why get your panties in a twist about it?


Did you even watch the replays? The three views that I got on my ESPN feed (I have NO idea what you got) didn't show anything close to MM grabbing SI's arm. In fact, now that I re-watch it (for probably the 20th time) and stop it, the one from the near baseline clearly shows SI running straight into MM's arm. She didn't even try to avoid her. Just ran right into her like she didn't even know, or care, that she was there.

I sure hope that she doesn't drive like that. Shocked


When did this non/incident occur? I finally have time to watch the game. I listened to it live returning from Albany.



About 9:29 of the 4th quarter. Replays are at 9:25.

BTW, the shot clock operator was a little slow on the trigger. Ball was touched on court at really, really, really, really, really, really close to 9:28. Shot clock didn't start until 2 seconds later.


Meh. Other than Mabrey's weak attempt to draw a cheap foul, not much there imo. Her flop was entertaining though. That she then may have taken a minor shot from her own teammate gets filed under instant karma.

What is the O/U on total flops by Mabrey and Samuelson Friday? Laughing



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PostPosted: 03/29/18 1:24 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

cthskzfn wrote:
Ex-Ref wrote:
cthskzfn wrote:
Ex-Ref wrote:
myrtle wrote:
Ex-Ref wrote:
linkster wrote:
Ex-Ref wrote:
linkster wrote:
If anything it's a foul on Mabrey for gabbing Ionescu's arm as she ran by.


Is there anything about ND that you won't bitch about?

It's really getting old.


There's a lot about N Dame I admire but their fans here already do a real good job of promoting those attributes.
I'd have to go back and read the posts but I think I was responding to a post that blamed the wrong person for the incident. As a matter of fact even the play by play announcers initially suggested that Mabrey was the victim until the correct angle replay CLEARLY showed Mabrey with her right hand firmly grasping Ionescu's arm as Ionescu went by her.



You mean the one where MM's grabbing SI with the BACK of her hand? Rolling Eyes

You need to look at it again in slo-mo, frame by frame or something (hell, you can even see it with ESPN's slo-mo) and see that MM's upper arm is extended behind her, her lower arm is angled down and her hand is bent up at the wrist. SI's arm is below MM's. No fucking way MM grabbed her.

The asshole announcer needs to keep his mouth shut and stop talking about something that he can't see (because it didn't happen).


Perhaps you need to put your sunshades back over your homer eyeballs. I see it like the announcer and Linkster. It was an IO brush by, which may or may not have been intentional but the hand out by MM looked definitely intentional. I like MM but she does instigate and she does flop and she does whine - in spite of all that I still enjoy seeing her play. Anyway it's long in the past and it had little to no bearing on the outcome, so why get your panties in a twist about it?


Did you even watch the replays? The three views that I got on my ESPN feed (I have NO idea what you got) didn't show anything close to MM grabbing SI's arm. In fact, now that I re-watch it (for probably the 20th time) and stop it, the one from the near baseline clearly shows SI running straight into MM's arm. She didn't even try to avoid her. Just ran right into her like she didn't even know, or care, that she was there.

I sure hope that she doesn't drive like that. Shocked


When did this non/incident occur? I finally have time to watch the game. I listened to it live returning from Albany.



About 9:29 of the 4th quarter. Replays are at 9:25.

BTW, the shot clock operator was a little slow on the trigger. Ball was touched on court at really, really, really, really, really, really close to 9:28. Shot clock didn't start until 2 seconds later.


Meh. Other than Mabrey's weak attempt to draw a cheap foul, not much there imo. Her flop was entertaining though. That she then may have taken a minor shot from her own teammate gets filed under instant karma.

What is the O/U on total flops by Mabrey and Samuelson Friday? Laughing


I really don't think it was a flop. I have a feeling that SI's arm hit MM's sore finger. Did you see the early part of the game where they showed MM in the handshake line after the A&M game?

I've never said that it should have been a foul (but IF there was one, it should have been SI getting one before MM). My issue is with people that seem to want to spread inaccurate info that MM grabbed SI when she clearly (and physically impossibly) didn't, and that she got what she deserved with JY falling over her and slamming her head into the floor. No player deserves to get hurt, no matter how minor it might seem to be.



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PostPosted: 03/29/18 1:33 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Ex-Ref wrote:
cthskzfn wrote:
Ex-Ref wrote:
cthskzfn wrote:
Ex-Ref wrote:
myrtle wrote:
Ex-Ref wrote:
linkster wrote:
Ex-Ref wrote:
linkster wrote:
If anything it's a foul on Mabrey for gabbing Ionescu's arm as she ran by.


Is there anything about ND that you won't bitch about?

It's really getting old.


There's a lot about N Dame I admire but their fans here already do a real good job of promoting those attributes.
I'd have to go back and read the posts but I think I was responding to a post that blamed the wrong person for the incident. As a matter of fact even the play by play announcers initially suggested that Mabrey was the victim until the correct angle replay CLEARLY showed Mabrey with her right hand firmly grasping Ionescu's arm as Ionescu went by her.



You mean the one where MM's grabbing SI with the BACK of her hand? Rolling Eyes

You need to look at it again in slo-mo, frame by frame or something (hell, you can even see it with ESPN's slo-mo) and see that MM's upper arm is extended behind her, her lower arm is angled down and her hand is bent up at the wrist. SI's arm is below MM's. No fucking way MM grabbed her.

The asshole announcer needs to keep his mouth shut and stop talking about something that he can't see (because it didn't happen).


Perhaps you need to put your sunshades back over your homer eyeballs. I see it like the announcer and Linkster. It was an IO brush by, which may or may not have been intentional but the hand out by MM looked definitely intentional. I like MM but she does instigate and she does flop and she does whine - in spite of all that I still enjoy seeing her play. Anyway it's long in the past and it had little to no bearing on the outcome, so why get your panties in a twist about it?


Did you even watch the replays? The three views that I got on my ESPN feed (I have NO idea what you got) didn't show anything close to MM grabbing SI's arm. In fact, now that I re-watch it (for probably the 20th time) and stop it, the one from the near baseline clearly shows SI running straight into MM's arm. She didn't even try to avoid her. Just ran right into her like she didn't even know, or care, that she was there.

I sure hope that she doesn't drive like that. Shocked


When did this non/incident occur? I finally have time to watch the game. I listened to it live returning from Albany.



About 9:29 of the 4th quarter. Replays are at 9:25.

BTW, the shot clock operator was a little slow on the trigger. Ball was touched on court at really, really, really, really, really, really close to 9:28. Shot clock didn't start until 2 seconds later.


Meh. Other than Mabrey's weak attempt to draw a cheap foul, not much there imo. Her flop was entertaining though. That she then may have taken a minor shot from her own teammate gets filed under instant karma.

What is the O/U on total flops by Mabrey and Samuelson Friday? Laughing


I really don't think it was a flop. I have a feeling that SI's arm hit MM's sore finger. Did you see the early part of the game where they showed MM in the handshake line after the A&M game?

I've never said that it should have been a foul (but IF there was one, it should have been SI getting one before MM). My issue is with people that seem to want to spread inaccurate info that MM grabbed SI when she clearly (and physically impossibly) didn't, and that she got what she deserved with JY falling over her and slamming her head into the floor. No player deserves to get hurt, no matter how minor it might seem to be.



MM seems to be tough enough, except when there is the possibility of contact in the above kind of situation. Suddenly, she becomes the daintiest of flowers in need of a fainting couch.

I don't think she grabbed, imo. She tried to get a foul called on SI and in doing so flopped, and in doing so was clocked a little bit by Young.

No harm, no foul, as they say.



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PostPosted: 03/29/18 2:31 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

CBiebel wrote:

You do realize that a good part of ND's defensive struggles come from having just 7 scholarship players, right? That's what keeps ND in zones so much this year.


I think the main reason Muffet plays zone is because, with the exception of Jackie Young, the top seven players on average are chunky and slow.

Wholly apart from that, Muffet has a long history of playing zone. I recall Geno saying one of the reasons he lost to ND in 2001 is that he couldn't solve Muffet's zone.
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PostPosted: 03/29/18 3:52 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GlennMacGrady wrote:
CBiebel wrote:

You do realize that a good part of ND's defensive struggles come from having just 7 scholarship players, right? That's what keeps ND in zones so much this year.


I think the main reason Muffet plays zone is because, with the exception of Jackie Young, the top seven players on average are chunky and slow.

Wholly apart from that, Muffet has a long history of playing zone. I recall Geno saying one of the reasons he lost to ND in 2001 is that he couldn't solve Muffet's zone.


You are aware that the reason ND played zone in 2001 was to protect the starters from foul trouble because they didn't have much depth, right? Having Ruth Riley or Niele Ivey fouling out would have been very bad for that team.

When ND has had depth, they've played man defense. Before the injuries ND was playing mostly man defense.

Those players didn't seem so "chunky and slow" back when they played UConn in December.

BTW, before that season, McGraw was told by a fellow coach that it was impossible to win a NC using a 2-3 zone as your base defense.




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PostPosted: 03/29/18 3:58 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

cthskzfn wrote:


MM seems to be tough enough, except when there is the possibility of contact in the above kind of situation. Suddenly, she becomes the daintiest of flowers in need of a fainting couch.

I don't think she grabbed, imo. She tried to get a foul called on SI and in doing so flopped, and in doing so was clocked a little bit by Young.

No harm, no foul, as they say.


I don't think it was a flop. I think the angle of her arm combined with how Ionescu was in contact with it could easily force that kind of spin. Was she trying to draw a foul? Most likely. Was it a "flop?" Nope. There can actually be a difference between those two.

As they say, though, there's 3 sides to every story.


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PostPosted: 03/29/18 4:27 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

CBiebel wrote:
cthskzfn wrote:


MM seems to be tough enough, except when there is the possibility of contact in the above kind of situation. Suddenly, she becomes the daintiest of flowers in need of a fainting couch.

I don't think she grabbed, imo. She tried to get a foul called on SI and in doing so flopped, and in doing so was clocked a little bit by Young.

No harm, no foul, as they say.


I don't think it was a flop. I think the angle of her arm combined with how Ionescu was in contact with it could easily force that kind of spin. Was she trying to draw a foul? Most likely. Was it a "flop?" Nope.



Have you ever, even in the privacy of your own home, watching alone, acknowledged that Mabrey, or for that matter, any ND player, has flopped? Wink



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PostPosted: 03/29/18 8:00 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

cthskzfn wrote:
CBiebel wrote:
cthskzfn wrote:


MM seems to be tough enough, except when there is the possibility of contact in the above kind of situation. Suddenly, she becomes the daintiest of flowers in need of a fainting couch.

I don't think she grabbed, imo. She tried to get a foul called on SI and in doing so flopped, and in doing so was clocked a little bit by Young.

No harm, no foul, as they say.


I don't think it was a flop. I think the angle of her arm combined with how Ionescu was in contact with it could easily force that kind of spin. Was she trying to draw a foul? Most likely. Was it a "flop?" Nope.



Have you ever, even in the privacy of your own home, watching alone, acknowledged that Mabrey, or for that matter, any ND player, has flopped? Wink


Have you ever, even in the privacy of your own home, watching alone, acknowledged either that a Notre Dame player was actually fouled and wasn't flopping, or that Samuelson is the single biggest flopper in all of WCBB in 2018? Wink


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PostPosted: 03/29/18 9:25 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
cthskzfn wrote:
CBiebel wrote:
cthskzfn wrote:


MM seems to be tough enough, except when there is the possibility of contact in the above kind of situation. Suddenly, she becomes the daintiest of flowers in need of a fainting couch.

I don't think she grabbed, imo. She tried to get a foul called on SI and in doing so flopped, and in doing so was clocked a little bit by Young.

No harm, no foul, as they say.


I don't think it was a flop. I think the angle of her arm combined with how Ionescu was in contact with it could easily force that kind of spin. Was she trying to draw a foul? Most likely. Was it a "flop?" Nope.



Have you ever, even in the privacy of your own home, watching alone, acknowledged that Mabrey, or for that matter, any ND player, has flopped? Wink


Have you ever, even in the privacy of your own home, watching alone, acknowledged either that a Notre Dame player was actually fouled and wasn't flopping, or that Samuelson is the single biggest flopper in all of WCBB in 2018? Wink


Should i be ashamed to say ive been through both of these traumatic experiences! Shocked Very Happy



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PostPosted: 03/29/18 10:07 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
cthskzfn wrote:
CBiebel wrote:
cthskzfn wrote:


MM seems to be tough enough, except when there is the possibility of contact in the above kind of situation. Suddenly, she becomes the daintiest of flowers in need of a fainting couch.

I don't think she grabbed, imo. She tried to get a foul called on SI and in doing so flopped, and in doing so was clocked a little bit by Young.

No harm, no foul, as they say.


I don't think it was a flop. I think the angle of her arm combined with how Ionescu was in contact with it could easily force that kind of spin. Was she trying to draw a foul? Most likely. Was it a "flop?" Nope.



Have you ever, even in the privacy of your own home, watching alone, acknowledged that Mabrey, or for that matter, any ND player, has flopped? Wink


Have you ever, even in the privacy of your own home, watching alone, acknowledged either that a Notre Dame player was actually fouled and wasn't flopping, or that Samuelson is the single biggest flopper in all of WCBB in 2018? Wink


False equivalence. Neither you nor CB have EVER acknowledged a ND flop in all the years I've read you two on forums.

Boners in green. Laughing



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PostPosted: 03/30/18 12:47 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
Just think, if ND and Louisville were in the PAC, Oregon would have finished third.
Wishful thinking, like all your 'theories', but not provable. Laughing

ArtBest23 wrote:
BTW, I was waiting for your last post of the season addressing again what a brilliant coach Aston is. I must have missed it.
You miss quite a bit, while the day is long, Arty Farty. Just as you continue to miss Aston's overall brilliance. But you probably can't help it....mayhaps a disability of some sort. Razz

Fighting Artichoke wrote:
Howee wrote:
But Ruthy was the second leading scorer on a team that won their P5 conference outright. Jess, no.

I'd think any wnba coach would agree: Jess is seeing her best NOW, Ruthy has a huge upside for the next 10 years.


Howee, maybe Ruthy is better than Shep, but the argument you present doesn't make much sense. Yes, Oregon won their P5 conference, but that's perhaps because there was no 1-seed in the conference. Oregon was 0-3 against 1-seeds this season (lost to Miss. St, Louisville and ND). ND was also 0-3 (UConn, Louisville twice), but 2 of those losses were in conference, which is why Notre Dame lost their conference tournament didn't win their regular season tournament outright. Of course they were regular season co-champs of the ACC and won both their games against PAC12 foes (Oregon St. and Oregon), and both games were on the left coast. Notre Dame also had the toughest schedule and only had those losses to fellow 1-seeds, whereas Oregon lost 2 games to teams that were not 1-seeds.

Well, FIRST OF ALL, it might serve the entire conversation better if One didn't presume that the outcome of One Game was the final determinant of "quality". If we want to continue in the Hypothetical Vein, maybe we could see Oregon beating ND in the next 3 straight games they played. ND didn't look so invincible when L'ville beat the snot outta them. They didn't even look that unbeatable vs. Oregon.

I'll reiterate my point simply again: I believe Ruthy is--CURRENTLY AND AS A PRO PROSPECT--a better player than Jess Shepard. Forget the conference positions: I can't imagine a WNBA coach that would disagree after evaluating each player. But....it's all moot for now. Only time will reveal the reality.



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PostPosted: 03/30/18 12:52 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

cthskzfn wrote:
CBiebel wrote:
cthskzfn wrote:


MM seems to be tough enough, except when there is the possibility of contact in the above kind of situation. Suddenly, she becomes the daintiest of flowers in need of a fainting couch.

I don't think she grabbed, imo. She tried to get a foul called on SI and in doing so flopped, and in doing so was clocked a little bit by Young.

No harm, no foul, as they say.


I don't think it was a flop. I think the angle of her arm combined with how Ionescu was in contact with it could easily force that kind of spin. Was she trying to draw a foul? Most likely. Was it a "flop?" Nope.





Have you ever, even in the privacy of your own home, watching alone, acknowledged that Mabrey, or for that matter, any ND player, has flopped? Wink


Yes.

And there is a lesson for you.

I can't help but notice that you failed to include the last line in my post. Could there be a reason for that? Maybe because it kills the point of your post?

You try to act like someone who is "oh so wise", but the fact that you left that last line out shows that no, you're just someone who attacks others, without wondering if he himself is being wise.

Here, I'll put it back in. Do you understand what it means?

As they say, though, there's 3 sides to every story.




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PostPosted: 03/30/18 1:03 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GlennMacGrady wrote:


I think the main reason Muffet plays zone is because, with the exception of Jackie Young, the top seven players on average are chunky and slow.



Every other player is "chunky and slow?" CHUNKY?

Really?

Look at the pictures here:

http://www.und.com/sports/w-baskbl/spec-rel/032918aaa.html

https://www.flickr.com/photos/75724787@N07/13605506834

How exactly do they look "chunky?" Considering that the uniforms tend to be rather "baggy" how could you tell?

This is the type of talk that pushes girls to eating disorders.


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PostPosted: 03/30/18 1:16 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

cthskzfn wrote:
CBiebel wrote:
cthskzfn wrote:


MM seems to be tough enough, except when there is the possibility of contact in the above kind of situation. Suddenly, she becomes the daintiest of flowers in need of a fainting couch.

I don't think she grabbed, imo. She tried to get a foul called on SI and in doing so flopped, and in doing so was clocked a little bit by Young.

No harm, no foul, as they say.


I don't think it was a flop. I think the angle of her arm combined with how Ionescu was in contact with it could easily force that kind of spin. Was she trying to draw a foul? Most likely. Was it a "flop?" Nope.



Have you ever, even in the privacy of your own home, watching alone, acknowledged that Mabrey, or for that matter, any ND player, has flopped? Wink


I also can't help but notice that you completely ignored my analysis of the video.

Your argument was basically "Ugg! You are a ND fan! Ugg! You are biased! Ugg! Me think you are wrong! Ugg!"

Did you think that her arm wasn't angled in a way that would spin her? Note that the announcers never suggested that wasn't the case.

Of course, in your response you completely ignore everything that I said that you didn't highlight. Why? Did I make too much sense? Did it kill your dig on me?


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PostPosted: 03/30/18 9:22 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

CBiebel wrote:
cthskzfn wrote:
CBiebel wrote:
cthskzfn wrote:


MM seems to be tough enough, except when there is the possibility of contact in the above kind of situation. Suddenly, she becomes the daintiest of flowers in need of a fainting couch.

I don't think she grabbed, imo. She tried to get a foul called on SI and in doing so flopped, and in doing so was clocked a little bit by Young.

No harm, no foul, as they say.


I don't think it was a flop. I think the angle of her arm combined with how Ionescu was in contact with it could easily force that kind of spin. Was she trying to draw a foul? Most likely. Was it a "flop?" Nope.





Have you ever, even in the privacy of your own home, watching alone, acknowledged that Mabrey, or for that matter, any ND player, has flopped? Wink


Yes.


Ok, next question. When was the last time you acknowledged a ND flop on a WCB forum not affiliated w/ ND? Will the next time be the 1st?

Because in all honesty, you (or Art) have never admitted even one, as far as I can recall, in ~20 years.



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PostPosted: 03/30/18 1:56 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Howee wrote:
ArtBest23 wrote:
Just think, if ND and Louisville were in the PAC, Oregon would have finished third.
Wishful thinking, like all your 'theories', but not provable.

Actually, the respective records of the ACC and PAC and of those three teams proves it beyond cavil.

Which you'd know if you actually paid attention.

And you'd also know that Aston gets less quality play out of more talent than basically any coach in the country. It's just a hot uncoached undisciplined mess. She's horrible.




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CBiebel



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PostPosted: 03/30/18 3:54 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

cthskzfn wrote:
CBiebel wrote:
cthskzfn wrote:
CBiebel wrote:
cthskzfn wrote:


MM seems to be tough enough, except when there is the possibility of contact in the above kind of situation. Suddenly, she becomes the daintiest of flowers in need of a fainting couch.

I don't think she grabbed, imo. She tried to get a foul called on SI and in doing so flopped, and in doing so was clocked a little bit by Young.

No harm, no foul, as they say.


I don't think it was a flop. I think the angle of her arm combined with how Ionescu was in contact with it could easily force that kind of spin. Was she trying to draw a foul? Most likely. Was it a "flop?" Nope.





Have you ever, even in the privacy of your own home, watching alone, acknowledged that Mabrey, or for that matter, any ND player, has flopped? Wink


Yes.


Ok, next question. When was the last time you acknowledged a ND flop on a WCB forum not affiliated w/ ND? Will the next time be the 1st?

Because in all honesty, you (or Art) have never admitted even one, as far as I can recall, in ~20 years.


And you still ignored my last line above.

Do you understand what "There are 3 sides to every story" means? Did you notice that it's THREE and not TWO?

Why is this so important to you? You never give, you just want to keep taking. Have you shown much in the way of respect the other way? No.

I've come to the realization that you really aren't any different from those die hard Boneyarders you despise. You just put a counter "hipster twist" on it.

Instead of taking the "UConn is the greatest! You can't beat UConn" road, though, you take the "I'm going to criticize this program and mention flaws I see! If no one at other programs likes doing that then they aren't equal to me, the mighty UConn fan! HAHAHA!"

It's the same kind of arrogance. It's just done in a different manner. You posts aren't about honest discussions between fans of different teams. You're just about trying to act superior to everyone else.

I'm done with that.


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PostPosted: 04/03/18 7:21 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GlennMacGrady wrote:
CBiebel wrote:

You do realize that a good part of ND's defensive struggles come from having just 7 scholarship players, right? That's what keeps ND in zones so much this year.


I think the main reason Muffet plays zone is because, with the exception of Jackie Young, the top seven players on average are chunky and slow.

Wholly apart from that, Muffet has a long history of playing zone. I recall Geno saying one of the reasons he lost to ND in 2001 is that he couldn't solve Muffet's zone.


This and I saw it up front and center and in person it is worse. I think I found out why they are having injury problems. Maybe a new conditioning coach is a must.


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