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What’s really bad for women’s basketball
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bballjunkie



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PostPosted: 03/23/18 11:09 am    ::: What’s really bad for women’s basketball Reply Reply with quote

What's really bad for women basketball...

Well just for starters Jealousy. Putting down teams and players where one has an agenda or hatred just because what they have isn't as good. A lack of appreciation for good and great basketball. Sexism, where not only mysoginist males have to put down women but also women who don't like that a male is successful in a womens arena. Racism where one has to stereotype players which goes both against black and white athletes. The womens game needs all the appreciation it can get. Success of teams and players hilites womens basketball not the other way around.


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PostPosted: 03/23/18 11:16 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Well stated.



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PostPosted: 03/23/18 11:24 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

summertime blues wrote:
Well stated.


Am I wrong to feel the irony here? Smile



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Nixtreefan



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PostPosted: 03/23/18 12:06 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Womens basketball definitely needs more positivity from its own.


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PostPosted: 03/24/18 12:35 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

What’s really wrong with WCBB is that ESPN only wants to cover UConn, because it is in it’s backyard (cough...cheap) and they will do anything they can to keep them successful.. Antonelli’s complete hatred of the PAC-12 is evidence.

I’m not saying Geno isn’t a great coach or anything, he DEFINITELY knows talent when he sees it. But there’s more than one reason why the top players keep deciding to go to that winter wasteland. It’s because they know that is where they will get the most free publicity.


linkster



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PostPosted: 03/24/18 2:57 am    ::: Re: What’s really bad for women’s basketball Reply Reply with quote

Quote:
What's really bad for women basketball...

Well just for starters Jealousy. Putting down teams and players where one has an agenda or hatred just because what they have isn't as good. A lack of appreciation for good and great basketball. Sexism, where not only mysoginist males have to put down women but also women who don't like that a male is successful in a womens arena. Racism where one has to stereotype players which goes both against black and white athletes. The womens game needs all the appreciation it can get. Success of teams and players hilites womens basketball not the other way around.


It's rare that a thread displays the symmetry we have here. Reminds me of the old Sixty Minute segment "Point-Counterpoint"

Quote:
What’s really wrong with WCBB is that ESPN only wants to cover UConn, because it is in it’s backyard (cough...cheap) and they will do anything they can to keep them successful.. Antonelli’s complete hatred of the PAC-12 is evidence.

I’m not saying Geno isn’t a great coach or anything, he DEFINITELY knows talent when he sees it. But there’s more than one reason why the top players keep deciding to go to that winter wasteland. It’s because they know that is where they will get the most free publicity
.


GEF34



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PostPosted: 03/24/18 3:00 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

PickledGinger wrote:
What’s really wrong with WCBB is that ESPN only wants to cover UConn, because it is in it’s backyard (cough...cheap) and they will do anything they can to keep them successful.. Antonelli’s complete hatred of the PAC-12 is evidence.

I’m not saying Geno isn’t a great coach or anything, he DEFINITELY knows talent when he sees it. But there’s more than one reason why the top players keep deciding to go to that winter wasteland. It’s because they know that is where they will get the most free publicity.


I haven't watched the broadcast so I don't know what she says, but I think hatred is a strong word especially since she has gone to multiple Pac-12 schools to talk to the teams. Even if she disliked the Pac-12 why should she go out of her way to travel to these schools to talk to the players.



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ucbart



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PostPosted: 03/24/18 5:18 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

PickledGinger wrote:
What’s really wrong with WCBB is that ESPN only wants to cover UConn, because it is in it’s backyard (cough...cheap) and they will do anything they can to keep them successful.. Antonelli’s complete hatred of the PAC-12 is evidence.

I’m not saying Geno isn’t a great coach or anything, he DEFINITELY knows talent when he sees it. But there’s more than one reason why the top players keep deciding to go to that winter wasteland. It’s because they know that is where they will get the most free publicity.


This post is totally irresponsible. We get a lot of attention from ESPN because we deserve it. And, the proof is in the pudding with the way he develops players, which is why so many great ones chose to go to a 'winter wasteland." UCONN is a media cornerstone right now because it;s the dominant program at the moment. Before UCONN started this run, Griner/Baylor, EDD, and Diggins were shoved down our throat, and before that Pat, Tennessee, and Candace Parker were. It's the way things go!


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PostPosted: 03/24/18 9:47 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

PickledGinger wrote:
What’s really wrong with WCBB is that ESPN only wants to cover UConn, because it is in it’s backyard (cough...cheap) and they will do anything they can to keep them successful.. Antonelli’s complete hatred of the PAC-12 is evidence.



And the moon landing took place in Arizona ...

And the Illuminati run the deep state that determines everything we do ...

And all the news is fake ...



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pilight



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PostPosted: 03/24/18 10:13 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
And the moon landing took place in Arizona ...


Well, no, the filming was done at Norton AFB in San Bernadino. Everybody knows that.



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FrozenLVFan



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PostPosted: 03/24/18 10:13 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Does anyone have any actual statistics on the number of times ESPN has covered UConn vs other top-25 teams in regular season games over the past decade? It would be nice to put this debate to rest. I also find it amusing that for years, Doris Burke was accused of being ESPN's UConn shill, and now it's Debbie Antonelli, who was previously thought to have an ACC-bias while Burke was still doing the women's games.


Nixtreefan



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PostPosted: 03/24/18 10:23 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

For those who struggle with this disease of Hatred I have heard that there is a great reliever and works wonders for those who just can't help themselves for falling into a Hatred downward spiral - its called Humor. You know a smile a day...


CBiebel



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PostPosted: 03/24/18 6:41 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

FrozenLVFan wrote:
I also find it amusing that for years, Doris Burke was accused of being ESPN's UConn shill,


You mean the woman who, during a ND-UConn broadcast, decided to become a rumor-monger and called out ND for an alleged postgame comment (funny how that story didn't come out anywhere near the time it supposedly happened, but only after ND was getting a lot of attention for being ranked ahead of UConn in the preseason BE standings). I'm betting that she never tried to ask around at ND to see if the rumor had any merit.

It was an extremely unprofessional thing to do.

For the record, I don't think that ESPN was telling her to be like that. I think she's just a shill on her own. I'm glad she's no longer doing games.


calbearman76



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PostPosted: 03/24/18 8:33 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I don't subscribe to conspiracy theories related to the lack of Pac 12 coverage on ESPN or the homerism of UConn. ESPN has a lucrative deal with the SEC across sports and that extends to women's basketball. The SEC has several good teams so they provide good matchups for the network to televise. The Pac 12 is more associated with Fox and so ESPN only broadcasts a few Pac 12 games per year. Individual announcers may have more of a bias based on the teams they see on a more regular basis, particularly given that games from other regions are often harder to access. The Pac 12 and other western teams have it doubly tough because their games are played late at night for easterners, often ending after midnight. As for UConn, ratings show that even if their games are blowouts they tend to draw better. That isn't what I want to see, but if the ratings were different I believe ESPN would react.

Women's basketball is less popular than men's basketball for many reasons that go to both the nature of sports in general and the position of men and women in society. We can try to dissect those reasons, rail against them, accept them as beyond our ability to directly change, or become frustrated by them. Or we can just enjoy the sport for what it is and try to grow the sport as best we can without concerning ourselves with its relative popularity to other things. There is enough good with the sport that we should make that our focus.


PickledGinger



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PostPosted: 03/26/18 10:35 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Ok, so I will admit that I may have been drunk and (for personal reasons) angry when I wrote that post, and I’m not particularly proud of it. HOWEVER, I believe that it is undeniable that we live in a corporate-run society and I find it very believable based on past evidence that there is a link between UConn’s recruiting success and ESPN. Anyone in their right mind has to admit that moving from Chino, California to Storrs, Connecticut is a rough lifestyle change.

That being said, Geno is the probably the best overall basketball coach ever, regardless of gender, and his ability to develop players is one of the reasons why the WNBA is as successful as it is. MAD respect to him and the program that he has built.

My great hope as a Washingtonian / Pac 12 fan is that the dynamic of WBB will eventually shift to the rest of the country. That’s why I am such a huge fan of Sabrina and Ruthy and Kelly and Satou. I am NOT an Oregon fan. But I am a fan of growth and I don’t believe that womens basketball will continue to grow with UConn as its focal point.


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PostPosted: 03/27/18 7:57 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I think the fact that all #1 seeds advanced to the Final Four isn't good for the women's game. Look at the men's side this year, only two #1 seeds made it to the final four, plus a #3 seed(Michigan) & a cinderella team, #11 seed Loyola-Chicago.



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pilight



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PostPosted: 03/27/18 8:05 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
I think the fact that all #1 seeds advanced to the Final Four isn't good for the women's game. Look at the men's side this year, only two #1 seeds made it to the final four, plus a #3 seed(Michigan) & a cinderella team, #11 seed Loyola-Chicago.


We seem to be moving backwards in that regard. This is the third time in seven years we've had all four #1 seeds in the F4. It had only happened once in the 30 tournaments before that.



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PRballer



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PostPosted: 03/27/18 8:37 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
toad455 wrote:
I think the fact that all #1 seeds advanced to the Final Four isn't good for the women's game. Look at the men's side this year, only two #1 seeds made it to the final four, plus a #3 seed(Michigan) & a cinderella team, #11 seed Loyola-Chicago.


We seem to be moving backwards in that regard. This is the third time in seven years we've had all four #1 seeds in the F4. It had only happened once in the 30 tournaments before that.



How will that change?

I’m sure they are great kids but it’s demoralizing to see the top recruits pick the same schools over and over again.


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PostPosted: 03/27/18 8:59 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Is it worse that all #1 seeds made it to the FF, or that the Elite 8 games were decided by an average of 22 points? For me, it's the latter. By mid-second quarter last night, I found the UConn-SC game unwatchable and turned it off. Not only did the lack of competitiveness make for an unengaging game, it didn't give the announcers anything interesting to discuss and led to a non-stop stream of drivel.


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PostPosted: 03/27/18 9:29 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

One reason for the dominance of certain programs is the relatively shallow talent pool. As I repeat too often, I'm sure, the steady drain of volleyball is deleting long, tall, explosive female athletes from basketball rosters and so there just isn't as much elite talent to go around.

And elite talent tends to gravitate toward elite programs, especially elite programs that have a track record of making players better and getting to the Final Four.

And since there are fewer elite programs on the women's side, we get this concentration of talent and four No. 1 seeds in the Final Four.

You can see the same at the high school level, where the upsets on the girls' side are rarer, and usually much rarer, than on the boys' side -- and for the same reasons. In California's Open divisions, the top girls' teams dominate the bottom seeds; for the boys, though there are some powerhouses, for the most part, games are much more competitive.



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PostPosted: 03/27/18 9:51 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

It's not just the shallow talent pool. After all, the pool is deeper now than it was when we only had four #1 seeds reach the F4 once in 30 years. And it's not just elite programs. Yes, we have all four #1 seeds in the F4, but two of them are schools that had never been #1 seeds before this season.



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PostPosted: 03/27/18 3:54 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

PickledGinger wrote:
What’s really wrong with WCBB is that ESPN only wants to cover UConn, because it is in it’s backyard (cough...cheap)



It’s not a backyard thing. UConn gets ratings, and ratings gets money.



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PostPosted: 03/27/18 4:55 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I don't know, I'm officially bored now and waiting for the draft. Once Loyola-Chicago is out on the men's side, I'm done with the college game until November.



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PostPosted: 03/27/18 5:23 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

PRballer wrote:
pilight wrote:
toad455 wrote:
I think the fact that all #1 seeds advanced to the Final Four isn't good for the women's game. Look at the men's side this year, only two #1 seeds made it to the final four, plus a #3 seed(Michigan) & a cinderella team, #11 seed Loyola-Chicago.


We seem to be moving backwards in that regard. This is the third time in seven years we've had all four #1 seeds in the F4. It had only happened once in the 30 tournaments before that.



How will that change?

I’m sure they are great kids but it’s demoralizing to see the top recruits pick the same schools over and over again.


The top picks on the men's side also pick among a handful of schools. The difference is the size of the talent pool.

Add to that the political angle. Instead of finding the best coach available, a lot of women's coaches get hired because of their demographics.


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PostPosted: 03/27/18 5:32 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

linkster wrote:
PRballer wrote:
pilight wrote:
toad455 wrote:
I think the fact that all #1 seeds advanced to the Final Four isn't good for the women's game. Look at the men's side this year, only two #1 seeds made it to the final four, plus a #3 seed(Michigan) & a cinderella team, #11 seed Loyola-Chicago.


We seem to be moving backwards in that regard. This is the third time in seven years we've had all four #1 seeds in the F4. It had only happened once in the 30 tournaments before that.



How will that change?

I’m sure they are great kids but it’s demoralizing to see the top recruits pick the same schools over and over again.


The top picks on the men's side also pick among a handful of schools. The difference is the size of the talent pool.

Add to that the political angle. Instead of finding the best coach available, a lot of women's coaches get hired because of their demographics.


A lot of women's coaches get hired because they're affordable.

Still not buying the depth of the talent pool. It doesn't explain why we're getting four #1 seeds three times in seven years compared to one time in the previous 30. Unless you're saying the talent pool is thinner than it was back in the day.

As for them picking the same schools, Mississippi State certainly wasn't considered an elite program when the current players chose to go there. How does that fit your theory?



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