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pilight
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justintyme
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 Posted: 07/17/17 10:22 am ::: |
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| Yeah. This is so fucked up. As I mentioned in the Philando Castile thread, the state of our police forces' use of force training/policies/beliefs should scare everyone.
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tfan
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| Posted: 07/17/17 11:55 pm ::: Re: Australian woman in Minneapolis fatally shot by cop |
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| pilight wrote: |
http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/16/us/australian-woman-shot-minneapolis/index.html
| Quote: |
| The officers were wearing body cameras but they were not turned on during the incident |
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There is a camera in the car that also allegedly wasn't turned on. That may not have gotten relevant video as she was at the driver window and the camera (unless there are more than one) looks out the windshield, but it should have captured audio. At least I have seen patrol car video that also had audio.
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cthskzfn
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| Posted: 07/18/17 5:45 pm ::: |
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| another fucking outrage, but i'll bet this cop will catch more shit than most, for the obvious reason.
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tfan
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| Posted: 07/18/17 6:28 pm ::: |
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| cthskzfn wrote: |
| another fucking outrage, but i'll bet this cop will catch more shit than most, for the obvious reason. |
The people that protest cop killings are actually the opposite of what you are implying - they are very pro non-whites. If he catches more grief than most it will be because he shot a 40-year-old unarmed woman in her pajamas who had called 911. Not sure what the defense will be for that. "thought I saw them reaching for a weapon" has worked many times in the past, but might be tough in this case, particularly with a witness sitting 1 foot away. And while that witness is on the other side of the thin blue line, I read that 3 other people saw what happened and they are responsible for what we know right now. "was not responding to commands" also seems problematic. He's lucky that there appears to be no penalty for not turning your body camera on so the police continue to wear, but not activate them. At least I have heard multiple times, "was wearing a body camera, but it was not turned on" before. And in this case, we have two body cameras that were worn, but not turned on, and a patrol car camera that was not turned on.
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tfan
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cthskzfn
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| Posted: 07/19/17 6:27 pm ::: |
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| tfan wrote: |
| cthskzfn wrote: |
| another fucking outrage, but i'll bet this cop will catch more shit than most, for the obvious reason. |
The people that protest cop killings are actually the opposite of what you are implying - they are very pro non-whites. If he catches more grief than most it will be because he shot a 40-year-old unarmed woman in her pajamas who had called 911. Not sure what the defense will be for that. "thought I saw them reaching for a weapon" has worked many times in the past, but might be tough in this case, particularly with a witness sitting 1 foot away. And while that witness is on the other side of the thin blue line, I read that 3 other people saw what happened and they are responsible for what we know right now. "was not responding to commands" also seems problematic. He's lucky that there appears to be no penalty for not turning your body camera on so the police continue to wear, but not activate them. At least I have heard multiple times, "was wearing a body camera, but it was not turned on" before. And in this case, we have two body cameras that were worn, but not turned on, and a patrol car camera that was not turned on. |
"people who protest cop killings" are "very pro non-whites".
i don't know what you mean.
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tfan
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| Posted: 07/19/17 6:51 pm ::: |
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| cthskzfn wrote: |
"people who protest cop killings" are "very pro non-whites".
i don't know what you mean. |
What did you mean by this statement:
| Quote: |
| another fucking outrage, but i'll bet this cop will catch more shit than most, for the obvious reason. |
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justintyme
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| Posted: 07/19/17 11:25 pm ::: |
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There's a predictable pattern to a fatal police shooting. But not in the case of Justine Ruszczyk
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There's a predictable pattern to the aftermath of too many deadly police shootings: Neighbors and anti-police brutality groups take to the streets. Groups supporting the officers stand up for them. Social media lights up over whether the victim "did something" to provoke the officer.
But none of that holds true in the case of Justine Ruszczyk, a white Australian bride-to-be who was killed by Mohamed Noor, a Somali-American black police officer in Minneapolis.
And that, say experts, speaks volumes about the state of America today. |
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cthskzfn
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| Posted: 07/20/17 9:54 am ::: |
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| tfan wrote: |
| cthskzfn wrote: |
"people who protest cop killings" are "very pro non-whites".
i don't know what you mean. |
What did you mean by this statement:
| Quote: |
| another fucking outrage, but i'll bet this cop will catch more shit than most, for the obvious reason. |
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Because he is a black Somali national and killed a white woman, Noor will, imo, likely face more legal retribution than the majority of cops who kill for no good reason.
Again, what did you mean?
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tfan
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| Posted: 07/20/17 11:32 am ::: |
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| cthskzfn wrote: |
| tfan wrote: |
| cthskzfn wrote: |
"people who protest cop killings" are "very pro non-whites".
i don't know what you mean. |
What did you mean by this statement:
| Quote: |
| another fucking outrage, but i'll bet this cop will catch more shit than most, for the obvious reason. |
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Because he is a black Somali national and killed a white woman, Noor will, imo, likely face more legal retribution than the majority of cops who kill for no good reason.
Again, what did you mean? |
I thought you were saying he would catch more flack from the public. I highly doubt he is a "Somali national" as he came here "at a young age" and he's now 32, and he's a cop.
But he didn't just "kill a white woman". He killed someone who wasn't resisting commands as is often the case (and which are situations in which they are trained to shoot to kill), and wasn't stopped/pulled over due to some suspicion. And she was in her pajamas near her house going to talk to the police who she had called. All that supercedes "a white woman". There also have been other black cops, including at least one high profile case, who killed someone and got the same treatment as white cops.
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justintyme
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| Posted: 07/20/17 12:06 pm ::: |
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| tfan wrote: |
| cthskzfn wrote: |
| tfan wrote: |
| cthskzfn wrote: |
"people who protest cop killings" are "very pro non-whites".
i don't know what you mean. |
What did you mean by this statement:
| Quote: |
| another fucking outrage, but i'll bet this cop will catch more shit than most, for the obvious reason. |
|
Because he is a black Somali national and killed a white woman, Noor will, imo, likely face more legal retribution than the majority of cops who kill for no good reason.
Again, what did you mean? |
I thought you were saying he would catch more flack from the public. I highly doubt he is a "Somali national" as he came here "at a young age" and he's now 32, and he's a cop.
But he didn't just "kill a white woman". He killed someone who wasn't resisting commands as is often the case (and which are situations in which they are trained to shoot to kill), and wasn't stopped/pulled over due to some suspicion. And she was in her pajamas near her house going to talk to the police who she had called. All that supercedes "a white woman". There also have been other black cops, including at least one high profile case, who killed someone and got the same treatment as white cops. |
This case is being handled much differently on a bunch of levels. And a lot more benefit of the doubt is offered her out of the gate than cases when it wasn't a white woman. In many of the cases the "resisting commands" is only because the police officer claims that the person was. And we default to believing them even though it is in their interest to day so.
Here we don't even have the typical police defenders (like Blue Live Matter) making those arguments. Where are the people saying she shouldn't have ran up to the officers in a dark alley, where is the media delving into her past for any prior police encouters or criminal complaints/accusations against her. Is anyone concerned that she might have pot in her system or have used drugs in the past? I mean, come on, if you think the entire narrative would be the same if she had been some young black male wearing a hoodie, hair in dreds, and covered in tattoos, that a lot more questions would be asked and he would have to go much further to prove that he was a Decent Person(TM), then I have a bridge to sell you.
What this case has done so far is flipped the default reaction of many of the police defenders. White people have a tendency to assume that if someone is shot by the police they did something to cause it and are ultimately at fault. So they take officers at their word and create their own narratives to excuse the officer's actions. In this case there is cognitive dissonance in thinking that way, which is what leads to silence.
Personally, I wish BLM was out in force marching about this. Show that the problem transcends the whole black/white thing (though obviously implicit biases lead to fear which leads to dead people), and that our assumptions about proper police behavior and training needs to change or people will continue to be at risk.
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tfan
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| Posted: 07/20/17 1:33 pm ::: |
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| justintyme wrote: |
This case is being handled much differently on a bunch of levels. And a lot more benefit of the doubt is offered her out of the gate than cases when it wasn't a white woman. |
Not only a white woman, but a 40 year old sane non-violent middle class white woman near her house who called the cops to report something she heard. The typical police shooting victim is a while (and probably young) male. I don't think that they keep the data, but I doubt many victims are sane non-violent middle class (and the ones that are would get more outrage from the sane non-violent middle class) and I would also bet most did not call police to report something suspicious near their house. It is atypical that she is a white woman, but seems that there are other significant differences as well.
| Quote: |
| In many of the cases the "resisting commands" is only because the police officer claims that the person was. And we default to believing them even though it is in their interest to day so. |
Every defendant has an interest to lie not just cops. At a minimum the court system defaults to "we have to buy the story unless we can prove it false". The public seems to do it on white collar criminals, athletes and other celebrities in the court of public opinion, in addition to cops.
It seems speculation to say that "in many cases they lie". They are trained to shoot to kill in some amount of "resisting commands" situations. Without video or something like the guy being shot in the back (the North Carolina incident had both), how do we know that many are false? Seems like the best that can be said that "many are suspicious" or "many are probably made up".
This cop has not told his story yet, but it doesn't appear that the typical resisting commands or "saw a weapon" or "appeared to reach for a weapon" will be a defense. Well, she had a cell phone so we may get a "thought the cell phone was a gun". Victims shot by the police tend to ultimately "only have a cellphone on them" after the cop defends the shooting with talk of a weapon or reaching for a weapon. But this case may rest on "very scared and was startled", which I is not typical. And too early to say that he won't get the benefit of the doubt on that story even if the driver says that he wasn't scared and startled. If you think about it, he must have either been scared and startled , or he's nuts.
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| Here we don't even have the typical police defenders (like Blue Lives Matter) making those arguments. Where are the people saying she shouldn't have ran up to the officers in a dark alley, |
Did you actually read that she "ran" up to them? I have seen it written that she "approached" the vehicle.
Blue Lives Matter doesn't have a story to defend yet. The guy isn't talking and they don't expect him to talk, short of a trial. Even then we might only hear from his defense attorney. If his defense is ultimately "dangerous lights-off situation and heard a loud noise and victim suddenly appeared" I think it is too early to say that he won't get support from Blue Lives Matter on that story.
| Quote: |
| where is the media delving into her past for any prior police encounters or criminal complaints/accusations against her. Is anyone concerned that she might have pot in her system or have used drugs in the past? I mean, come on, if you think the entire narrative would be the same if she had been some young black male wearing a hoodie, hair in dreds, and covered in tattoos, that a lot more questions would be asked and he would have to go much further to prove that he was a Decent Person(TM), then I have a bridge to sell you. |
If she was wearing a hoody with an unusual hairstyle and on the street in a bad or lower class part of town and covered in tattoos, or if anything about her behavior was unusual,, then I think more questions would be getting asked publicly about this woman and her drug history.
| Quote: |
| What this case has done so far is flipped the default reaction of many of the police defenders. White people have a tendency to assume that if someone is shot by the police they did something to cause it and are ultimately at fault. So they take officers at their word and create their own narratives to excuse the officer's actions. In this case there is cognitive dissonance in thinking that way, which is what leads to silence. |
This case is not typical in more ways than the color of the person's skin.
| Quote: |
| Personally, I wish BLM was out in force marching about this. Show that the problem transcends the whole black/white thing (though obviously implicit biases lead to fear which leads to dead people), and that our assumptions about proper police behavior and training needs to change or people will continue to be at risk. |
I agree that the training needs to change. I have felt that way since reading about a woman in a supermarket holding a knife and her cat and saying she was going to kill it. Three policeman confronted an obviously disturbed woman, told her to drop the knife and ultimately fired multiple shots into her chest. I didn't live in that area so didn't read follow ups, but the initial article did not reflect an outrage or that they had done something improper. I have since read about similar middle of the day "wasn't obeying'" shot-in-the-chest situations or someone who had at most, a knife. Situations where they could have shot them in the leg or with a stun gun.
Last edited by tfan on 07/20/17 3:09 pm; edited 11 times in total |
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Howee
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| Posted: 07/20/17 1:42 pm ::: |
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| tfan wrote: |
| I highly doubt he is a "Somali national" as he came here "at a young age" and he's now 32, and he's a cop. |
Umm...."Somali national" merely refers to his ethnic origins, no? Being here awhile or being a cop don't change those things.
Tragic beyond belief. "Blue Lives" need to get a grip on their nerves/sensibilities/composure if they're going to serve the public appropriately.
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tfan
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| Posted: 07/20/17 1:51 pm ::: |
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| Howee wrote: |
| tfan wrote: |
| I highly doubt he is a "Somali national" as he came here "at a young age" and he's now 32, and he's a cop. |
Umm...."Somali national" merely refers to his ethnic origins, no? Being here awhile or being a cop don't change those things.
|
Typically Mohamed Noor would be called a Somali-American or a Somali immigrant. I normally see "Somali national" used in cases where the person is not a citizen of the US, and usually not trying to be, so I thought that was the meaning. But in looking at the definition, I guess anyone who holds Somali citizenship could be called that, even if they are also a US citizen.
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cthskzfn
Joined: 21 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 07/20/17 2:07 pm ::: |
Reply |
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| tfan wrote: |
| cthskzfn wrote: |
| tfan wrote: |
| cthskzfn wrote: |
"people who protest cop killings" are "very pro non-whites".
i don't know what you mean. |
What did you mean by this statement:
| Quote: |
| another fucking outrage, but i'll bet this cop will catch more shit than most, for the obvious reason. |
|
Because he is a black Somali national and killed a white woman, Noor will, imo, likely face more legal retribution than the majority of cops who kill for no good reason.
Again, what did you mean? |
I thought you were saying he would catch more flack from the public. I highly doubt he is a "Somali national" as he came here "at a young age" and he's now 32, and he's a cop.
But he didn't just "kill a white woman". He killed someone who wasn't resisting commands as is often the case (and which are situations in which they are trained to shoot to kill), and wasn't stopped/pulled over due to some suspicion. And she was in her pajamas near her house going to talk to the police who she had called. All that supercedes "a white woman". There also have been other black cops, including at least one high profile case, who killed someone and got the same treatment as white cops. |
I said " like the majority of cops who kill for no good reason".
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tfan
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| Posted: 07/20/17 2:22 pm ::: |
Reply |
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| cthskzfn wrote: |
| tfan wrote: |
| cthskzfn wrote: |
| tfan wrote: |
| cthskzfn wrote: |
"people who protest cop killings" are "very pro non-whites".
i don't know what you mean. |
What did you mean by this statement:
| Quote: |
| another fucking outrage, but i'll bet this cop will catch more shit than most, for the obvious reason. |
|
Because he is a black Somali national and killed a white woman, Noor will, imo, likely face more legal retribution than the majority of cops who kill for no good reason.
Again, what did you mean? |
I thought you were saying he would catch more flack from the public. I highly doubt he is a "Somali national" as he came here "at a young age" and he's now 32, and he's a cop.
But he didn't just "kill a white woman". He killed someone who wasn't resisting commands as is often the case (and which are situations in which they are trained to shoot to kill), and wasn't stopped/pulled over due to some suspicion. And she was in her pajamas near her house going to talk to the police who she had called. All that supercedes "a white woman". There also have been other black cops, including at least one high profile case, who killed someone and got the same treatment as white cops. |
I said " like the majority of cops who kill for no good reason". |
You said "black Somali national" killing a white woman would cause him to get different treatment. I mentioned a black cop in a high-profile case (I don't remember which) and he didn't seem to get treated differently But it just occurred to me that Black Lives Matter was protesting and the victim was black. So not the same. But as I have said, this case is atypical on more than just the race and gender aspect.
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cthskzfn
Joined: 21 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 07/21/17 9:17 am ::: |
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| tfan wrote: |
| cthskzfn wrote: |
| tfan wrote: |
| cthskzfn wrote: |
| tfan wrote: |
| cthskzfn wrote: |
"people who protest cop killings" are "very pro non-whites".
i don't know what you mean. |
What did you mean by this statement:
| Quote: |
| another fucking outrage, but i'll bet this cop will catch more shit than most, for the obvious reason. |
|
Because he is a black Somali national and killed a white woman, Noor will, imo, likely face more legal retribution than the majority of cops who kill for no good reason.
Again, what did you mean? |
I thought you were saying he would catch more flack from the public. I highly doubt he is a "Somali national" as he came here "at a young age" and he's now 32, and he's a cop.
But he didn't just "kill a white woman". He killed someone who wasn't resisting commands as is often the case (and which are situations in which they are trained to shoot to kill), and wasn't stopped/pulled over due to some suspicion. And she was in her pajamas near her house going to talk to the police who she had called. All that supercedes "a white woman". There also have been other black cops, including at least one high profile case, who killed someone and got the same treatment as white cops. |
I said " like the majority of cops who kill for no good reason". |
You said "black Somali national" killing a white woman would cause him to get different treatment. I mentioned a black cop in a high-profile case (I don't remember which) and he didn't seem to get treated differently But it just occurred to me that Black Lives Matter was protesting and the victim was black. So not the same. But as I have said, this case is atypical on more than just the race and gender aspect. |
THIS is what I said:
1-black,
2-non American-born cop
3-white woman
4-no good reason
5-legal retribution
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tfan
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| Posted: 07/21/17 11:24 pm ::: |
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| The Minneapolis mayor fired the police chief. They were showing her press conference when she was complimenting the police chief and also the assistant who she was promoting, when a black man (who was part of a group) began a speech that turned into a rant that went on a very long time and ultimately while the mayor was trying to finish a group of people began chanting "Bye bye Betsey". I saw a sign that said "United Against Police Brutality". There is a black woman talking with a megaphone in the crowd. Eventually, another black man gets a microphone and starts saying that they don't want the assistant police chief "even though he looks like us". Then the first man starts shouting that the people who like the assistant police chief are (misguided/wrong/foolish) and finally the group starts shouting that they shut the meeting down and doing a chant that has a chorus of "shut it down". And that they did. So the people that protest police brutality (other than Black Lives Matter, which Juan Williams says has been fairly quiet all summer) appear to be reacting to this as strongly as they would any incident. One white woman is very angry about their "body cam policy" and say that there is a very small amount of footage taken each month.
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Shades
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| Posted: 03/20/18 2:34 pm ::: |
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| Officer Noor getting charged today. Some level of manslaughter.
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StevenHW
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tfan
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Shades
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| Posted: 04/30/19 5:15 pm ::: |
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Verdicts in today.
2nd degree murder: Not guilty
3rd degree murder: Guilty
2nd degree manslaughter: Guilty
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Luuuc
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| Posted: 04/30/19 6:43 pm ::: |
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| cthskzfn wrote: |
| Because he is a black Somali national and killed a white woman, Noor will, imo, likely face more legal retribution than the majority of cops who kill for no good reason. |
Well that sure was a lucky guess.
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