| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Phil
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
Posts: 1273
Back to top |
 Posted: 03/10/18 5:02 pm ::: |
Reply  |
|
I am in total agreement that evaluating which conference is tougher is a difficult job.
In fact, I'll go further and say that it is not a well-defined statement.
While there will be inevitable differences of opinion about the relative strength of individual teams, even if for someone to assign a strength to each individual to based upon some metric it would still not be trivial to determine which is the better conference.
In general, the answer might depend on what question is being asked.
For example, someone might set up a battle of conferences, arranging a game between conference members with the top team from conference A versus the top team from conference B etc. Ignoring the complication of what to do with the number of teams is different, that's one measure of strength of conference.
A second measure might be to set up round-robin so that everyone in the first conference place everyone in the second conference. One can devise ranking such that the first question a single game between each of the pairs of teams would favor one conference while a full round-robin might favor another conference.
Another question might be which conference will send the most teams to the tournament. Yet another question will be which conference will have the most wins in the tournament. Add two more variations by asking about percentage of conference teams as opposed to absolute number.
I wouldn't be surprised if four different conferences might "win" for different questions I've asked so far and more can be devised.
|
|
calbearman76
Joined: 02 Nov 2009
Posts: 5155
Location: Carson City
Back to top |
| Posted: 03/10/18 5:06 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| FrozenLVFan wrote: |
| I don't see why the "strongest conference" is even a factor. Using that concept, UConn ought to be a 3 seed, and we'd be left with four 1-seeds that we can all agree with. The right metric is the strongest schedule of each team, including both conference and OOC games. |
I used that statement as a short form of saying that they had played a consistently hard schedule in their conference, which I detailed in greater depth on a later post. If MSU had not played any tough games out of conference they still would have wound up with several quality wins. UConn would probably deserve no better than a 3 seed if they didn't consistently challenge themselves in their non-conference. Baylor is getting penalized because their conference wound up not being as tough as usual, so having only 2 tough non-conference games made their overall schedule weak.
Winning the strongest conference carries with it that you were able to consistently beat top teams, and that should have been clear.
|
|
Phil
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
Posts: 1273
Back to top |
| Posted: 03/10/18 5:08 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
I agree that if you move past the top-tier opponents and look at the next level that South Carolina's opponents are stronger than Baylor's. It appears you think that overcomes the weaker result against the top teams. I put more weight on results against top teams then second-tier teams but you are free to put more weight on games against weaker teams.
Maybe we'll get lucky and South Carolina and Baylor will end up facing each other. While one game doesn't necessarily prove anything, it will be an important data point.
|
|
Coyotes
Joined: 28 Jan 2018
Posts: 1467
Back to top |
| Posted: 03/10/18 5:44 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| My only peeve with Selection Monday is that it's at 7pm EST. I don't get off work until 7pm EST. How are the fans from the left coast and Mountain supposed to be excited by this or engage in watching this? Even pushing it back until 7:30 or 8 would be a boon.
|
|
pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 66900
Location: Where the action is
Back to top |
| Posted: 03/10/18 6:01 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| The actual committee started meetings last night
_________________
I'm a lonely frog
I ain't got a home
|
|
ucbart
Joined: 21 Nov 2004
Posts: 2815
Location: New York
Back to top |
| Posted: 03/10/18 6:08 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| calbearman76 wrote: |
It looks okay. The one problem is that you can't have UCLA and Stanford in the same region according to the NCAA principles, but you can fix that by putting Stanford in the Kansas City Region.
I will be posting my full bracket after the end of the Buffalo - Central Michigan game. |
Teams from the same conference can be in the same bracket, provided their meeting comes in the E8! I didn’t put Stanford as the #4 seed in ND’s brackets since their were in the same bracket last year.
|
|
myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008
Posts: 32335
Back to top |
| Posted: 03/10/18 6:44 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| Just looking at Charlie's doings, I'm surprised that he has SEVEN Big 10 teams in since I really felt like the B1G was having a down year. That sticks out to me as strange.
_________________
For there is always light,
if only we’re brave enough to see it.
If only we’re brave enough to be it.
- Amanda Gorman
|
|
calbearman76
Joined: 02 Nov 2009
Posts: 5155
Location: Carson City
Back to top |
| Posted: 03/10/18 6:51 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| ucbart wrote: |
| calbearman76 wrote: |
It looks okay. The one problem is that you can't have UCLA and Stanford in the same region according to the NCAA principles, but you can fix that by putting Stanford in the Kansas City Region.
I will be posting my full bracket after the end of the Buffalo - Central Michigan game. |
Teams from the same conference can be in the same bracket, provided their meeting comes in the E8! I didn’t put Stanford as the #4 seed in ND’s brackets since their were in the same bracket last year. |
There is a separate rule that for teams in the top 16 the top 4 teams in a conference have to be in different regions. It is a pain, and it is why in my bracket I have South Carolina, my overall 7 seed, in the bracket with UConn. I could not find a way to keep all top 4 teams from the ACC and SEC in different regions while also putting UConn in Albany, Louisville in Lexington and Oregon in Spokane.
The rules are new this year and should result in better brackets overall, nut I often wonder how much the Committee becomes a slave to its rules. The last time they adjusted their rules they went completely away from the S-curve. This time they are presumably bringing it back, but we will see if it plays out that way.
My full bracket is in the thread "Filling the Bracket"
|
|
CBiebel
Joined: 23 Dec 2004
Posts: 1055
Location: PA
Back to top |
| Posted: 03/10/18 6:58 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| ucbart wrote: |
I didn’t put Stanford as the #4 seed in ND’s brackets since their were in the same bracket last year. |
...and the year before that...and the year before that...
|
|
Queenie
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
Posts: 18029
Location: Queens
Back to top |
| Posted: 03/10/18 7:04 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| myrtle wrote: |
| Just looking at Charlie's doings, I'm surprised that he has SEVEN Big 10 teams in since I really felt like the B1G was having a down year. That sticks out to me as strange. |
The Big Numerically Challenged is pretty much the entire bubble right now. So many mired in the same slough of uncertainty.
_________________
Ardent believer in the separation of church and stadium.
|
|
calbearman76
Joined: 02 Nov 2009
Posts: 5155
Location: Carson City
Back to top |
| Posted: 03/10/18 7:15 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| myrtle wrote: |
| Just looking at Charlie's doings, I'm surprised that he has SEVEN Big 10 teams in since I really felt like the B1G was having a down year. That sticks out to me as strange. |
The Big 10 is weak at the top. Ohio St is most likely a 3 seed, although a reasonable case could be made for them to be the last 2 seed. Maryland is a likely 5 seed. But then their depth shows. Iowa, Minnesota, Michigan and Nebraska are all definitely in as far as I'm concerned. (Nebraska is 60 in the RPI but they have 5 top 50 wins, including 2 top 25 wins, and half of their 10 losses are against top 25 teams.) Rutgers, Purdue, Indiana and perhaps even Michigan St could be considered bubble teams. So while the conference probably won't have much representation after the first weekend they have a lot of tournament quality teams.
On the other side of the coin is the Big 12. They have only two locks (Texas and Baylor) Oklahoma St should also be in, but their numbers are poor (RPI 58) because they played a weak non-conference schedule (except for their win over UCLA) and the overall conference is down. Oklahoma is the only other team in the RPI top 50. OSU is 3-6 vs the top 50 and have 4 losses against teams outside the top 50. West Virginia, Oklahoma and TCU, all teams who may be tournament worthy based on different metrics, look poor based on the metrics the Committee seems to rely upon most. Could it be that the Big East will get 4 teams in the field while the Big 12 gets only 3? It could.
|
|
mikeyc22
Joined: 20 Apr 2006
Posts: 2396
Back to top |
|
FrozenLVFan
Joined: 08 Jul 2014
Posts: 3511
Back to top |
| Posted: 03/11/18 2:27 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| Coyotes wrote: |
| My only peeve with Selection Monday is that it's at 7pm EST. I don't get off work until 7pm EST. How are the fans from the left coast and Mountain supposed to be excited by this or engage in watching this? Even pushing it back until 7:30 or 8 would be a boon. |
The bracket announcement show is on ESPN at 7 pm EDT.
The "bracket analysis" show is on EPSNU at 8 pm EDT.
|
|
summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
Posts: 7822
Location: Shenandoah Valley
Back to top |
| Posted: 03/11/18 8:42 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| FrozenLVFan wrote: |
| Coyotes wrote: |
| My only peeve with Selection Monday is that it's at 7pm EST. I don't get off work until 7pm EST. How are the fans from the left coast and Mountain supposed to be excited by this or engage in watching this? Even pushing it back until 7:30 or 8 would be a boon. |
The bracket announcement show is on ESPN at 7 pm EDT.
The "bracket analysis" show is on EPSNU at 8 pm EDT. |
For ESPN, no one else outside the EDT exists. /s
_________________
Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
|
|
linkster
Joined: 27 Jul 2012
Posts: 5423
Back to top |
| Posted: 03/12/18 12:18 am ::: |
Reply |
|
| summertime blues wrote: |
| FrozenLVFan wrote: |
| Coyotes wrote: |
| My only peeve with Selection Monday is that it's at 7pm EST. I don't get off work until 7pm EST. How are the fans from the left coast and Mountain supposed to be excited by this or engage in watching this? Even pushing it back until 7:30 or 8 would be a boon. |
The bracket announcement show is on ESPN at 7 pm EDT.
The "bracket analysis" show is on EPSNU at 8 pm EDT. |
For ESPN, no one else outside the EDT exists. /s |
47% of the population lives in the eastern time zone. Add in the central and it goes to over 75%.
https://www.quora.com/What-percentage-of-the-US-population-lives-in-the-Eastern-Central-and-Pacific-timezones-respectively
|
|
cthskzfn
Joined: 21 Nov 2004
Posts: 12851
Location: In a world where a PSYCHOpath like Trump isn't potus.
Back to top |
| Posted: 03/12/18 8:10 am ::: |
Reply |
|
[quote="summertime blues"]
| FrozenLVFan wrote: |
| For ESPN, no one else outside the EDT exists. /s |
That must be why UConn has started NCAAT games at 9pm Sunday night.
_________________
Silly, stupid white people might be waking up.
|
|
patsweetpat
Joined: 14 Jul 2010
Posts: 2313
Location: Culver City, CA
Back to top |
| Posted: 03/12/18 11:48 am ::: |
Reply |
|
| Hey everyone, good luck with your seedings today. May the odds be ever in your favor. /HungerGames
|
|
Queenie
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
Posts: 18029
Location: Queens
Back to top |
| Posted: 03/12/18 5:08 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| Dear sweet committee Jesus, let Michigan make the Big Dance. Let St. John's, and Seton Hall, and Fordham, make the WNIT and host games, but not on the same nights, and not against each other until the bracket narrows to that necessity. Thank you, hallowed be thy name, and have a good night, amen.
_________________
Ardent believer in the separation of church and stadium.
|
|
SpaceJunkie
Joined: 10 Sep 2012
Posts: 4241
Location: Minnesota
Back to top |
| Posted: 03/12/18 5:14 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| Queenie wrote: |
| Dear sweet committee Jesus, let Michigan make the Big Dance. Let St. John's, and Seton Hall, and Fordham, make the WNIT and host games, but not on the same nights, and not against each other until the bracket narrows to that necessity. Thank you, hallowed be thy name, and have a good night, amen. |
Michigan is in, so good luck vs whatever 9 or 10 seed they get?
I'm hoping the committee isn't going to screw the Gophers into such a low seed that they'll be forced to get destroyed by DePaul in the first round. OUTRAGE!
|
|
calbearman76
Joined: 02 Nov 2009
Posts: 5155
Location: Carson City
Back to top |
| Posted: 03/12/18 5:31 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| SpaceJunkie wrote: |
| Queenie wrote: |
| Dear sweet committee Jesus, let Michigan make the Big Dance. Let St. John's, and Seton Hall, and Fordham, make the WNIT and host games, but not on the same nights, and not against each other until the bracket narrows to that necessity. Thank you, hallowed be thy name, and have a good night, amen. |
Michigan is in, so good luck vs whatever 9 or 10 seed they get?
I'm hoping the committee isn't going to screw the Gophers into such a low seed that they'll be forced to get destroyed by DePaul in the first round. OUTRAGE! |
If the Gophers are in the last 4 in they have to be a 10 or 11. They should be higher.
|
|
SpaceJunkie
Joined: 10 Sep 2012
Posts: 4241
Location: Minnesota
Back to top |
| Posted: 03/12/18 5:43 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| calbearman76 wrote: |
| SpaceJunkie wrote: |
| Queenie wrote: |
| Dear sweet committee Jesus, let Michigan make the Big Dance. Let St. John's, and Seton Hall, and Fordham, make the WNIT and host games, but not on the same nights, and not against each other until the bracket narrows to that necessity. Thank you, hallowed be thy name, and have a good night, amen. |
Michigan is in, so good luck vs whatever 9 or 10 seed they get?
I'm hoping the committee isn't going to screw the Gophers into such a low seed that they'll be forced to get destroyed by DePaul in the first round. OUTRAGE! |
If the Gophers are in the last 4 in they have to be a 10 or 11. They should be higher. |
The Gophers didn't lose to enough good teams, preferably in non-conference, though. 😂
|
|
pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 66900
Location: Where the action is
Back to top |
| Posted: 03/12/18 6:08 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| A #13 seed and a rematch, not what I was hoping for
_________________
I'm a lonely frog
I ain't got a home
|
|
dinkytown
Joined: 18 Sep 2011
Posts: 2591
Back to top |
|
WNBA 09
Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 12528
Location: Dallas , Texas
Back to top |
|
lynxmania
Joined: 18 Feb 2011
Posts: 10697
Location: Minnesota
Back to top |
| Posted: 03/12/18 6:12 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
Buffalo - one of the first Final 8 Teams in the Bracket.
Virginia also nabbed an At-Large Bid.
|
|
|
|
