RebKell's Junkie Boards

[Nerd2]

[Richyyy]

[Bob Lamm]

[myrtle]

No problem. Just invite 1000 kids from local schools to fill those awful seats.

_________________
For there is always light,
if only we’re brave enough to see it.
If only we’re brave enough to be it.
- Amanda Gorman

[Queenie]

[jmvcity]

Garden of Nightmares

[Happycappie25]

I've been unusually quiet. Calm like a bomb really. Been letting Queenie do the talking for a few reasons. Namely out of respect of Keia Clarke who's been handed the keys to the Concordia after the captain decided to buzz the rocks and go to dinner...no nice way to say it. Love her...but this is a mess.

1. While I think the Wahhiaiahhhs need a franchise sooner than later...moving the team out west is not an answer. Fact that Sun officials have been doing as much if not more to sell us on the Libs than Lib officials tells you the importance of the Libs/NY Market to the league (and may give sun fans rooting for a Lib move a different point of view). Lacob was a lynchpin of the ABL and he can do a lot for the W...but on his terms...which means new arena up and running...patience padawan...but when its open...I think Joe will be a boost to the league.

2. WCC is a disaster...the 29s were a mistake. Upstairs is more important to fans who are giving so much...to limit them...at least open 1 upper deck section...it matters. I've said as much...we will see....that was the only major misstep...they could have gotten more retention not sticking folks in what were 1. seats that were temporary, had exposed edges that like to eat pant legs, and looked more suited for WWE superstars to bash over their heads than Lib fans to jump their butts out of...2. OBSTRUCTED VIEW! I get the econonmics of the tables and ex delta club accomidiations...but going to $29 a seat was a mistake not of obstructed view...39 wasnt as hot as you're almost too close to the floor. hard to see without standing and well I dont think those 29 dollar customers will like that much standing.

3. Lots of empty spaces so even a full house won't look that great on tv...Id rather have some rows in the end zones than the way things are set up...empty when it's full is a real issue...and should even a few of those 29s not show on weekdays, ugly fast.

4. There is good things going for it. I like Katie taking more responsibility being the face of the club and I think there will be changes from bill...that's a change from most of the off season where I thought she would be too much of the same. I dont mind the small moves...I still dont like not breaking up Prince and Rodgers but I wouldnt short sell either as long as they arent starting together...I do agree other teams have improved...but with the sale trepidation there wasnt much to do....We will see.

5. Staff wise...the WCC locals at least are friendly and know they're making the best of a bad situiation...they were the ones who gave us an honest answer on the capacity. League got sold a bill of goods, cant have this for more than 1 year but at least they arent giving us attitude.

6. Transit needs to be the thing...otherwise I can see 3 digit crowds...focus on weekends yes but things can get ugly fast...transit is the key I've told Keia as such...cant go further than that for now but it IS being addressed.

7. Without transit...this was confirmed...3 hours public transit...2.5 about with spending $20 per person (basically doubling your outlay) metro north from queens...for a place where some college arenas would be bigger and better (That Lou pic doesnt show the new jumbotrons they installed...tho there will be renovations...hopefully going all seats, itd be a good final destination...could run shuttles from Jamaica LIRR/Subway easy) but honestly LIU's tiny 1500 seat arena near barclays (and with several restaurants of many walks of like and cuisine) would be better than this place...at least in terms of sightlines...(Yes i know that gym is spoken for for the streetball TBT Tourney just hypothetical) place reminds me of Walsh Gym but with overhangs that make the lower deck even MORE undesirable...and I love walsh gym...but not for pros.

There's a reason we're locking up a Sun plan before the Libs...so we can get to 11 games...our hearts are with the libs, but this cant pass this year...Nassau may be just as bad in terms of transit...but it's an arena...seats 11k...ideal size...and is state of the art...this is a WPA building...just not worth it...sorry...all but cried saying it...and it's the hard work of the players Keia Clarke and Katie Smith that have us coming to the games we CAN come to...upstairs so we can see the game. However that gets done.

_________________
"Leave it to the NCAA women's basketball committee to turn a glass slipper into glass ceiling" Graham Hays

[NYL_WNBA_FAN]

Ugh. This is going to be a tough season. I'm going to just wait for balcony single seats to come out and get what I can for each game.

_________________
The poster formerly known as LibWNBAFan.

[Lib Fan]

You make some good points Happycappie25...the overhang and low risers of the seats makes sitting in the $29 seats not possible .

I went to the first row of the $39 seats mid court but closer to the Lib bench.
Sitting with a fan friend so I can still high five ... I will miss our game day
ritual of passing by your seats at beginning , half time, end of game at MSG
and always saying something to you and Queenie

_________________
Lets Go Liberty
Brooklyn 2021
Bring Back Maddie!

[toad455]

[ClayK]

All of this is just sad ...

We all know it's a business, and that Dolan is not a good owner, but still ... the reward for the devotion and the support of the Liberty is this?

The same could be said, of course, for all the departed franchises, but New York drew well, did well and was in some (if not many) ways the face of the league.

Just very sad ...

_________________
Oṃ Tāre Tuttāre Ture Svāhā

[Bob Lamm]

[Lib Fan]

[tfan]

[Queenie]

[toad455]

We all need to be optimistic and hope this is only temporary and we get new ownership for 2019 to move the team to Barclays.

_________________
LET'S GO LIBERTY!!!!!!

Twitter: @TBRBWAY

[Shades]

Unless the Liberty finds some super wealthy owner who doesn’t care about maximizing profits, I think it’s unrealistic for a new owner to return the team to a high capacity, high rent venue. Surely there must be an acceptable compromise between Westchester and Barclays.... one of the many college venues?

_________________
Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned

[Bob Lamm]

[Queenie]

[Bob Lamm]

[toad455]

realistically, Barclays is the best option for a new ownership group to keep the team in New York. With the arena soon to be splitting games with the Islanders(1/3 at Nassau in 2018-19), the arena will have more available dates for concerts in the Fall & Winter. Looking at the event calendar for Barclays this summer, May, June & July are nearly completely open. August has a bunch of concerts, but this could be good for the owners of the Barclays if they feel the Liberty could pull in even 7-8,000 during the summer to help fill the arena's calendar.

_________________
LET'S GO LIBERTY!!!!!!

Twitter: @TBRBWAY

[Happycappie25]

Also Barclays is located close to Park Slope...traditionally an LGBT hub and a place where many fans can commute to easily...and is at a massive crossroads subway wise. Lower deck seems smaller than the garden was...I'd say 7 - 8 downstairs a club level and the rest upstairs believe its 16k for basketball

The colleges...Columbia apparently has issues with the wall being too close to the court...many gyms are like this...Hell Carenesseca may run afoul of this and their upper deck has some sightline issues and is all plastic bleachers...tho renovations coming...

But just to be a total devil's advocate to show how limited the options are:

Nassau: 12k good sightlines...state of the art...this is not the Mousleum people remember with wooden seats...it was completely gutted and retrofitted...the big issue is the transit issue is as bad if not worse than White Plains...despite being a bit closer as the crow flies, especially in the outer boros and at least directly drivable from NJ as its off the meadowbrook about 90 mins from Morris County.

But the con is transit...there is NO public transit...you have to go to hempstead either thru LIRR or N6 bus and transfer to the N70 which does not run frequently. It's about 2.5 from queens given how SLOW Nice runs their busses...not much better than WCC transit wise...but NIGHT AND DAY in terms of arena.

Mack Sports Complex (Hofstra): 5k legit with a nice pavillion area between the decks for family fun zones, the bleachers are all chairbacks and has a decent center hung scoreboard.

The con? It's across the street...LITERALLY ACROSS THE STREET from Nassau colseium so why not just go there.

Carnessecca Arena (St. Johns): Nice new jumbotron, center hung video board and digital floor dashers, has outdoor space in front that can be used for fanfests, holds about 6k. Transit accessability isnt as bad as the papers say...its not good but it's better than WCC or any of the Nassau options. The 31 and 30 lines run up from Jamaica LIRR and the E and J lines. the 46 which is a major arterial bus line, runs down from the E and F Union turnpike stop...can do it in an hour from MSG...done it for 4 years...E to union to the 46 which on weekdays have 3 different lines (all stop there) and run very frequentely even later at night. Shuttles could be run from there as well. For those willing to Splurge...the QM Express Bus service run about 3 lines down the 46 from midtown manhattan forget the numbers as they just changed it...it USED TO BE called the QM1A

The issue is the arena...almost ALL bleachers, and the chairbacks are the retractable type...and I mean BLEACHERS, hard plastic, no back support...got butt cups on the upper deck ones, on hard concrete stairs...Wheelchairs would be relegated to around the concourse. Not much space to put VIP seats either...the Endcourts are elevated about 10 feet with a padded wall...It was mentioned walls close to the end zone are not liked by the W...and was an issue with columbia but those seats are retractible (and not good sightlines anyway) so this may be worked out.

The upper deck has some issues as well...it seems that some are blocked by the overhang...not good and the consessions were moved into the lobby because the concessions were such a bottleneck...however it is a nice gathering place with places to sell merch. But renovations are coming, and NEEDED. needs to be all seats...but it's not as bad as some have sold it...its a decent alternative and possible final destination. but too many bleachers for now.

Rose Hill Gym (Fordham): It's a nice beautiful stone building and just went to both courtside sections going all seats, and nice seats to boot. The endcourts are bleachers, but to put groups of kids they are spacious. There is a strange upper area that you could put tables for VIP seats as there isnt much room elsewhere.

The big con is that there are no facilities in the gym...have to leave the gym to access toilets! and those restrooms are tiny...also the consession stands is a HS Esque corner of the arena with all portable items...there is a bar/club area under the arena for postgame gatherings that could be used for vips, and the school's caf is across from the gym so maybe you use that for a fee...capacity is maybe 1750 but honestly...given the renovation to all seats...and HUGE jerrytrons I'd take it over WCC for one year...honest...location isnt bad...MANY bus lines including the BX12SBS which stops on one end of campus...2 Bee lines, Metro north, and a short (But uphill walk) to D service...go about 4 blocks more you can get the 4...better than WCC but capacity too small to discuss except it would have been a better choice than WCC...by fair.

Draddy Gym (Manhattan College, which is actually in the Bronx): As Queenie mentioned, it's all temporary seating, and much of it chairback. As it's an indoor track and field center plenty of space for VIP and fanfest areas and could get to fit up to 5-6k but on tv it would be obvious you're playing in a temporary setup. Transit wise it's a slow but easy go as it's at the end of two long lines plus bee line service for our friends in yonkers. the 1 train in Manhattan and the BX9 in the bronx...both acccessable from other lines from other outer boros.

Issue is it's on a hilltop...transit stops at the BOTTOM of the hill...it's a 8 story walk...UPHILL...there is a garage, there are elevators...but they dont always work. Most older fans would have SERIOUS issues getting there...for a place that is well temporary seats and court. no thanks but it's a thought. Building itself is old too

Leiven Gym (Columbia): Well we've been there before...entrances are questionable and apparently the walls are too close to the court for W standards...but again if your asking for 2300 like WCC I'd rather be there near fans than WCC but only reason I mention...the walls make it a non starter.

The WRAC (LIU Brooklyn): quarter mile from Barclays with some reception areas for VIPs but is mostly bleachers and only holds maybe 1500...that said again Better than WCC but already booked for the TBT semi pro tournament that gets good draw due to its teams of alumni from various colleges and many borderline NBA players playing overseas or in the D/G league.

Barclays Center: Place is built for Basketball, period, dont be scared about the Isles being kicked out, thats more because to retrofit for hockey so much expense needed to be put in. Doesnt get as many concert dates and is in a transit hub.

Con: Would we have more of the same...but 8k there would outdo the garden..it really would...this is the best option...tho not the only option...but i agree there are very few good options out there. and I'm not even considering NJ or Pru center as we know the deal there.

hope this helps. will say tho...there were much better alternatives to WCC if your going down to 2500 anyway...might as well go to rose hill at least it looks good on tv and there are NO obstructed view seats!

_________________
"Leave it to the NCAA women's basketball committee to turn a glass slipper into glass ceiling" Graham Hays

[Bob Lamm]

Thanks for all this information and analysis, Happycappie.

I'd just add one wonderful advantage of the uptown Fordham campus. Depending on game time, one can go before or after to the wonderful Arthur Avenue neighborhood, "Little Italy of the Bronx." It's one of my favorite things about New York City and SO much better than super-touristy Little Italy in Manhattan. Great shops for buying pasta, bread, cheese, etc.

But I still don't like any of these minor-league options.

_________________
Remember Roe v. Wade. Work for and support legal abortion all over the world and full reproductive rights for everyone.

[libertycrazy97]

[libertycrazy97]

Dolan was not moving this team to Barclays, Prudential or Nassau. He is looking to get rid of the team and off his financial books. He would have to pay big rent for these venues. Take your heart out of it (i am a die hard from day one) its simply business. WCC he is probably paying peanuts to rent it out.

Honestly we didn't draw overly well at pru center so he wasnt going back there. when he would pay a large over head. Barclays we probably would of lost a few but may have drawn what we do at MSG. But again large money to be paid and he doesnt want to do that. Nassau we would not draw well. basically like people on LI and NJ are saying WCC is a slap in the face to them. Well Nassau is a slap in the face to those in other areas like westchester or even the bronx. getting out there by public transport would be a pain in the butt.

We will see what 2019 brings.