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WNBA 09



Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 7589
Location: Dallas , Texas


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PostPosted: 03/07/18 2:18 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Nerd2 wrote:
WNBA 09 wrote:
Nerd2 wrote:
Luuuc wrote:
#Occasionalwnbafan wrote:
Liz will have her chance to prove it on the floor this year, outside of Charles, BG and big Sly I don't think other teams will have an answer for her, I can't see Jones or Stewart will be able to stop her.

The thing is though, she won't be able to stop them either.
Liz can be a beast when she gets going, but she is prone to being exploited at the other end too. She's far from nimble as a defender, and she can't resist shot block attempts. I expect both of those factors to regularly land her in hot water against the quicker, more skilled, and smarter opponents she will face in the WNBA.


When I saw her play in the WNBA in 2013 she looked great. She hasn't really been in that condition since she hurt herself in 2014. So much of what I saw in the last year or two seemed to be her being too slow to get to where she needed to be and fouling as a result. If she is using this time off to get in great condition, she can compete with the absolute best. If not, she is going to get in foul trouble quickly.


Thanks nerd ill look for you once the season begins Laughing Liz is the best player period in my opinion aand you cant change that sorry its MY opinion.The same for Bibb, Im so excited this shall be fun.


Please look for me here and not on L chat.


I dont understand the abbreviation about Liz but i stated i will look for you once the season begins. Thanks nerd !



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Nerd2



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PostPosted: 03/07/18 2:44 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

WNBA 09 wrote:
Nerd2 wrote:
WNBA 09 wrote:
Nerd2 wrote:
Luuuc wrote:
#Occasionalwnbafan wrote:
Liz will have her chance to prove it on the floor this year, outside of Charles, BG and big Sly I don't think other teams will have an answer for her, I can't see Jones or Stewart will be able to stop her.

The thing is though, she won't be able to stop them either.
Liz can be a beast when she gets going, but she is prone to being exploited at the other end too. She's far from nimble as a defender, and she can't resist shot block attempts. I expect both of those factors to regularly land her in hot water against the quicker, more skilled, and smarter opponents she will face in the WNBA.


When I saw her play in the WNBA in 2013 she looked great. She hasn't really been in that condition since she hurt herself in 2014. So much of what I saw in the last year or two seemed to be her being too slow to get to where she needed to be and fouling as a result. If she is using this time off to get in great condition, she can compete with the absolute best. If not, she is going to get in foul trouble quickly.


Thanks nerd ill look for you once the season begins Laughing Liz is the best player period in my opinion aand you cant change that sorry its MY opinion.The same for Bibb, Im so excited this shall be fun.


Please look for me here and not on L chat.


I dont understand the abbreviation about Liz but i stated i will look for you once the season begins. Thanks nerd !


I can grab screen caps if you'd like to refresh your memory.


tfan



Joined: 31 May 2010
Posts: 6859



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PostPosted: 03/07/18 7:04 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Nerd2 wrote:
tfan wrote:

Yeah, it was made as a marketing statement and a I think he exaggerated, but I don't see it as a huge stretch and he has the unknown on his side since she hasn't played in the WNBA since 2013 when she was 21/22 (what would be a college player's rookie WNBA year) and was 16.3ppg/8.3 rpg in 25 minutes on a bad team. And she's never played in the European leagues where the WNBA elite congregates for big bucks.


So you don't think it's a stretch to call her the best player in the world yet you provide tons of evidence that she's done absolutely nothing worthy of staking the claim. She has won a WNBL championship/MVP in 2011 and a bronze medal in the 2012 Olympics. That's it. Nothing at any other stop. What you are arguing is that she has great potential - and she does. But you'll excuse the rest of us for believing that you can't be the best player in the world if you haven't led your team to some hardware.


She will be playing in 2018 in Dallas. I don't see that citing her 2013 statistics - five years ago - from when she would have been a (21/22 year old) rookie per the US college player schedule, is "tons of evidence" with regard to her current ability. Nor is talking about where she hasn't played evidence for or against what might be her current ability versus other WNBA players. What you could challenge is "lack of evidence", but that applies to both sides. No one is citing her Chinese league or WNBL or Olympic stats to build a case on either side (apart from you talking about her TEAM records).

The idea that in a team sport a player is only the best if their team wins the championship seems to miss the "team" in team sport. Tamika Catchings is the only player in WNBA history to lead a team that would be considered notably or arguably inferior to one or more opponents in the playoffs by a large majority of fans, to a championship (and even that was probably dependent on Douglas getting hurt in the Division Finals). And I don't recall a significant amount of people (I actually don't recall anyone) touting Tamika Catchings as the greatest player in the league during any point in her career. And even then, I don't know that being the best player on the team should give Catchings the credit for the victory - which really seemed to only begin in the deciding Sun/Fever game when Douglas went down. All the Indiana starters played well in the finals. I don't know how we determine how much credit to give to Catchings. The "lead her team to a championship" is something only Catchings should be up to get points from. But it is used as a convenience by people trying to denigrate a player like Parker (or Cambage), or praise a player like Moore.




Last edited by tfan on 03/07/18 1:14 pm; edited 12 times in total
tfan



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PostPosted: 03/07/18 7:37 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

*dup*


WNBA 09



Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 7589
Location: Dallas , Texas


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PostPosted: 03/07/18 10:04 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Nerd2 wrote:
WNBA 09 wrote:
Nerd2 wrote:
WNBA 09 wrote:
Nerd2 wrote:
Luuuc wrote:
#Occasionalwnbafan wrote:
Liz will have her chance to prove it on the floor this year, outside of Charles, BG and big Sly I don't think other teams will have an answer for her, I can't see Jones or Stewart will be able to stop her.

The thing is though, she won't be able to stop them either.
Liz can be a beast when she gets going, but she is prone to being exploited at the other end too. She's far from nimble as a defender, and she can't resist shot block attempts. I expect both of those factors to regularly land her in hot water against the quicker, more skilled, and smarter opponents she will face in the WNBA.


When I saw her play in the WNBA in 2013 she looked great. She hasn't really been in that condition since she hurt herself in 2014. So much of what I saw in the last year or two seemed to be her being too slow to get to where she needed to be and fouling as a result. If she is using this time off to get in great condition, she can compete with the absolute best. If not, she is going to get in foul trouble quickly.


Thanks nerd ill look for you once the season begins Laughing Liz is the best player period in my opinion aand you cant change that sorry its MY opinion.The same for Bibb, Im so excited this shall be fun.


Please look for me here and not on L chat.


I dont understand the abbreviation about Liz but i stated i will look for you once the season begins. Thanks nerd !


I can grab screen caps if you'd like to refresh your memory.


Yes please do because your sounding a bit weird



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hyperetic



Joined: 11 Oct 2005
Posts: 5124
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PostPosted: 03/07/18 10:42 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Luuuc wrote:
#Occasionalwnbafan wrote:
Liz will have her chance to prove it on the floor this year, outside of Charles, BG and big Sly I don't think other teams will have an answer for her, I can't see Jones or Stewart will be able to stop her.

The thing is though, she won't be able to stop them either.
Liz can be a beast when she gets going, but she is prone to being exploited at the other end too. She's far from nimble as a defender, and she can't resist shot block attempts. I expect both of those factors to regularly land her in hot water against the quicker, more skilled, and smarter opponents she will face in the WNBA.


X____________

Also, @Nerd2's comment about Liz's conditioning is an important point also.
Nerd2 wrote:
So much of what I saw in the last year or two seemed to be her being too slow to get to where she needed to be and fouling as a result.

It has always been a sticking point with me.
Randy



Joined: 08 Oct 2011
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PostPosted: 03/07/18 11:22 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

They don't always count all of the fouls in the WNBA though. It's a mash or smash league.


justintyme



Joined: 08 Jul 2012
Posts: 7082
Location: Northfield, MN


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PostPosted: 03/07/18 1:10 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Randy wrote:
They don't always count all of the fouls in the WNBA though. It's a mash or smash league.

They don't, but if you are a big you have to be clever about them. Take Griner and how often she gets into foul trouble.



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Shades



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PostPosted: 03/28/18 11:42 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Thought I’d kick up a depth chart again for Dallas, since who they pick at #6 may have a domino effect on the rest of the first round. Do they pick best available even though it’s not a strong need, or do they fortify their need?

Diggins-Smith/Chong
AGray/Davis
Christmas-Kelly/Powers
GJohnson/Thornton/Akhator
Cambage/Lewis

#6, #18, #30

Dallas didn’t make any extra signings of new players. They just signed players already on the roster.

Any word on Hamblin returning? That could be a factor in any decisions.

Plaisance - Signed multi-year deal but guessing full season suspension for her. A bit surprising they’d sign her to a multi-year while she’s seriously injured but they must rate her above a marginal player. She did step up at times last year.

I could see them wanting to give Akhator another year since she was such a high pick, and I believe Thornton proved herself worthy but I’ll fall short of calling her a lock.

So I guess that makes my most bubble players as Chong and Lewis.

As it is they could add a guard without cutting Chong, BUT does that necessarily mean they should add a guard at #6. They could add post (preferably C) at #6 and there still should be a decent guard (Goodwin? 20.6 ppg) available at #18. The posts available at #18 would most likely be of the garden variety like they already have in Lewis.... although I’m mildly intrigued by Kaylee Jensen who could be available, a big with some range on her shot (18.5 ppg).


I’m still waiting for the Sparks to clear up their guard situation. I’m thinking they’ll need to deal a couple of their guards for most likely future consideration. The Wings could conceivably bring back Riquna Williams for dirt cheap if that appeals to them. Carson? Wiese? Who’s going from the Sparks? Is Dabovic’s stock still high?



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zune69



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PostPosted: 03/28/18 11:52 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Depending on who's available at #6...Trading down for a player & pick/future pick wouldn't be the worst move in the world.


Shades



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PostPosted: 03/28/18 11:59 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

zune69 wrote:
Depending on who's available at #6...Trading down for a player & pick/future pick wouldn't be the worst move in the world.


I don’t think I’d do Riquna Williams + #11 for #6. The Sparks have put themselves in a position where they’re forced to trade some players. Dallas should be able to keep #6 and get Riquna for dirt cheap, like maybe a 2019 third round pick.



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zune69



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PostPosted: 03/28/18 12:18 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
zune69 wrote:
Depending on who's available at #6...Trading down for a player & pick/future pick wouldn't be the worst move in the world.


I don’t think I’d do Riquna Williams + #11 for #6. The Sparks have put themselves in a position where they’re forced to trade some players. Dallas should be able to keep #6 and get Riquna for dirt cheap, like maybe a 2019 third round pick.


Not sure Williams is a good fit with this Dallas squad...There's only one basketball to go around.


WNBA 09



Joined: 26 Jun 2009
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Location: Dallas , Texas


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PostPosted: 03/28/18 12:27 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

zune69 wrote:
Shades wrote:
zune69 wrote:
Depending on who's available at #6...Trading down for a player & pick/future pick wouldn't be the worst move in the world.


I don’t think I’d do Riquna Williams + #11 for #6. The Sparks have put themselves in a position where they’re forced to trade some players. Dallas should be able to keep #6 and get Riquna for dirt cheap, like maybe a 2019 third round pick.


Not sure Williams is a good fit with this Dallas squad...There's only one basketball to go around.


Lets remember fred let her walk , i doubt she wants to comeback and we dont need her back at all . #6 will be spent on a post unless something unforseen takes place with the picks above us . Our team has the depth now to really use the pick wherever. Lewis should be a goner and i vote to keep chong as shes reliable in the backcourt . Well she was at least last season .



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zune69



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PostPosted: 03/28/18 12:36 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

WNBA 09 wrote:
zune69 wrote:
Shades wrote:
zune69 wrote:
Depending on who's available at #6...Trading down for a player & pick/future pick wouldn't be the worst move in the world.


I don’t think I’d do Riquna Williams + #11 for #6. The Sparks have put themselves in a position where they’re forced to trade some players. Dallas should be able to keep #6 and get Riquna for dirt cheap, like maybe a 2019 third round pick.


Not sure Williams is a good fit with this Dallas squad...There's only one basketball to go around.


Lets remember fred let her walk , i doubt she wants to comeback and we dont need her back at all . #6 will be spent on a post unless something unforseen takes place with the picks above us . Our team has the depth now to really use the pick wherever. Lewis should be a goner and i vote to keep chong as shes reliable in the backcourt . Well she was at least last season .


Deshields and Canada will more than likely be off the board.....I'm starting to think that Vivians,Brown,or Billings will be Dallas' pick.


WNBA 09



Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 7589
Location: Dallas , Texas


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PostPosted: 03/28/18 1:25 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

zune69 wrote:
WNBA 09 wrote:
zune69 wrote:
Shades wrote:
zune69 wrote:
Depending on who's available at #6...Trading down for a player & pick/future pick wouldn't be the worst move in the world.


I don’t think I’d do Riquna Williams + #11 for #6. The Sparks have put themselves in a position where they’re forced to trade some players. Dallas should be able to keep #6 and get Riquna for dirt cheap, like maybe a 2019 third round pick.


Not sure Williams is a good fit with this Dallas squad...There's only one basketball to go around.


Lets remember fred let her walk , i doubt she wants to comeback and we dont need her back at all . #6 will be spent on a post unless something unforseen takes place with the picks above us . Our team has the depth now to really use the pick wherever. Lewis should be a goner and i vote to keep chong as shes reliable in the backcourt . Well she was at least last season .


Deshields and Canada will more than likely be off the board.....I'm starting to think that Vivians,Brown,or Billings will be Dallas' pick.


Vivians no , Brown no , Billings maybeeeeee. Russell Likely ....



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hangtyme24



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PostPosted: 03/28/18 7:23 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

WNBA 09 wrote:
zune69 wrote:
WNBA 09 wrote:
zune69 wrote:
Shades wrote:
zune69 wrote:
Depending on who's available at #6...Trading down for a player & pick/future pick wouldn't be the worst move in the world.


I don’t think I’d do Riquna Williams + #11 for #6. The Sparks have put themselves in a position where they’re forced to trade some players. Dallas should be able to keep #6 and get Riquna for dirt cheap, like maybe a 2019 third round pick.


Not sure Williams is a good fit with this Dallas squad...There's only one basketball to go around.


Lets remember fred let her walk , i doubt she wants to comeback and we dont need her back at all . #6 will be spent on a post unless something unforseen takes place with the picks above us . Our team has the depth now to really use the pick wherever. Lewis should be a goner and i vote to keep chong as shes reliable in the backcourt . Well she was at least last season .


Deshields and Canada will more than likely be off the board.....I'm starting to think that Vivians,Brown,or Billings will be Dallas' pick.


Vivians no , Brown no , Billings maybeeeeee. Russell Likely ....


Does the Dallas fans want to see Russell as they're pick? Just curious. I'm a Tennessee fan and was unimpressed with her effort and production this season. Felt she could've averaged a dbl dbl. I think with the right coach she could be a good player with time, but idk if Fred is the coach. Dallas could use a serviceable back up post though. 🤔



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WNBA 09



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PostPosted: 03/28/18 7:27 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

hangtyme24 wrote:
WNBA 09 wrote:
zune69 wrote:
WNBA 09 wrote:
zune69 wrote:
Shades wrote:
zune69 wrote:
Depending on who's available at #6...Trading down for a player & pick/future pick wouldn't be the worst move in the world.


I don’t think I’d do Riquna Williams + #11 for #6. The Sparks have put themselves in a position where they’re forced to trade some players. Dallas should be able to keep #6 and get Riquna for dirt cheap, like maybe a 2019 third round pick.


Not sure Williams is a good fit with this Dallas squad...There's only one basketball to go around.


Lets remember fred let her walk , i doubt she wants to comeback and we dont need her back at all . #6 will be spent on a post unless something unforseen takes place with the picks above us . Our team has the depth now to really use the pick wherever. Lewis should be a goner and i vote to keep chong as shes reliable in the backcourt . Well she was at least last season .


Deshields and Canada will more than likely be off the board.....I'm starting to think that Vivians,Brown,or Billings will be Dallas' pick.


Vivians no , Brown no , Billings maybeeeeee. Russell Likely ....


Does the Dallas fans want to see Russell as they're pick? Just curious. I'm a Tennessee fan and was unimpressed with her effort and production this season. Felt she could've averaged a dbl dbl. I think with the right coach she could be a good player with time, but idk if Fred is the coach. Dallas could use a serviceable back up post though. 🤔


Honestly shes our best option for our style of player. We dont expect nor need her to average a double double , but she kind of fills a void with having offensive power from the bench and at least a minority portion of rebounding. I dont see a better option at this point , I know people were high on Gulich but i dont see it .



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tfan



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PostPosted: 03/28/18 8:29 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Russell and Cambage would be two players who were exclusively 5's. I don't think there are many teams who have that.


#Occasionalwnbafan



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PostPosted: 03/28/18 9:44 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

zune69 wrote:
WNBA 09 wrote:
zune69 wrote:
Shades wrote:
zune69 wrote:
Depending on who's available at #6...Trading down for a player & pick/future pick wouldn't be the worst move in the world.


I don’t think I’d do Riquna Williams + #11 for #6. The Sparks have put themselves in a position where they’re forced to trade some players. Dallas should be able to keep #6 and get Riquna for dirt cheap, like maybe a 2019 third round pick.


Not sure Williams is a good fit with this Dallas squad...There's only one basketball to go around.


Lets remember fred let her walk , i doubt she wants to comeback and we dont need her back at all . #6 will be spent on a post unless something unforseen takes place with the picks above us . Our team has the depth now to really use the pick wherever. Lewis should be a goner and i vote to keep chong as shes reliable in the backcourt . Well she was at least last season .


Deshields and Canada will more than likely be off the board.....I'm starting to think that Vivians,Brown,or Billings will be Dallas' pick.


Wouldn’t mind seeing the wings offer Powers and the #6 pick to the Sky for the 4th pick and taking Williams, she would fit in nicely with the wings and eventually start at small forward.
Richyyy



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PostPosted: 03/28/18 10:10 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

#Occasionalwnbafan wrote:
Wouldn’t mind seeing the wings offer Powers and the #6 pick to the Sky for the 4th pick and taking Williams, she would fit in nicely with the wings and eventually start at small forward.

Their floor spacing is already pretty cramped with Gray and Johnson being mediocre (at best) from outside, though. That only gets worse if you add a non-shooter like Williams at the 3 (and it's already going to be tighter this season without Plaisance).

Much as an alternative to Cambage for the next time she gets hurt or doesn't show up would be nice, someone who can actually shoot to join Diggins on the perimeter wouldn't hurt, either. I doubt they reach at #6 for someone that no one else would take before about #11.



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WNBA 09



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PostPosted: 03/29/18 1:08 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

#Occasionalwnbafan wrote:
zune69 wrote:
WNBA 09 wrote:
zune69 wrote:
Shades wrote:
zune69 wrote:
Depending on who's available at #6...Trading down for a player & pick/future pick wouldn't be the worst move in the world.


I don’t think I’d do Riquna Williams + #11 for #6. The Sparks have put themselves in a position where they’re forced to trade some players. Dallas should be able to keep #6 and get Riquna for dirt cheap, like maybe a 2019 third round pick.


Not sure Williams is a good fit with this Dallas squad...There's only one basketball to go around.


Lets remember fred let her walk , i doubt she wants to comeback and we dont need her back at all . #6 will be spent on a post unless something unforseen takes place with the picks above us . Our team has the depth now to really use the pick wherever. Lewis should be a goner and i vote to keep chong as shes reliable in the backcourt . Well she was at least last season .


Deshields and Canada will more than likely be off the board.....I'm starting to think that Vivians,Brown,or Billings will be Dallas' pick.


Wouldn’t mind seeing the wings offer Powers and the #6 pick to the Sky for the 4th pick and taking Williams, she would fit in nicely with the wings and eventually start at small forward.


Trade Powers whos proven she can play and score at this level and our 1st rd pick for #4 aka Gabby? Laughing Laughing Id rather have #6 straight Up. If anything We can just take Vivians at worst.



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PostPosted: 03/29/18 1:22 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Is Plaisance out for the season? I know she tore her ACL in OCT, but they also gave her a new contract, is there any chance she is available in 2018?

If not would drafting Russell at 6 and Atkins at 18 be a best case scenario?

You would end up with

Diggins/Chong
Gray/Davis/Atkins
Christmas-Kelly/Powers
Johnson/Thorton/Akhator
Cambage/Russell

If not Atkins at 18 other options could be S. Thomas, Scaife, McCarty, Goodwyn, Flahrety, M. Williams.

you could also flip and go best available at #6 (if you don't think it is Russell) Vivians, Canada, L. Brown, Nurse and post at 18 Gulich (maybe?) Mavunga, Jensen, Bultler, though after listing the options I would probably go with the Russell at #6 and best perimeter at #18. Though it does bring up who is better Billings or Russell? Russell is bigger and more polished on the offensive end but could Billings as a high energy physical player be a better fit for the Wings? I like Billings better, but I might take Russell with the idea that as Cambage's back up you can bring her along slowly 10-15 minute a night at first and develop her much higher ceiling over a couple of seasons.

Now if you did grab say Vivians at #6, you could try to upgrade your post spot by trading a wing, what back up Center could you get for say Davis? J. Hamson, Achonwa, Cheyenne Parker, A. Robinson, Vaughn? They're not great but they are all a little better/more experienced than Lewis IMO, and that is all you really need while you have Cambage. Or target someone like Stokes, Coates or Stafford-McGhee which I think might cost a little more, maybe Christmas and #18 (and signed cored players have to agree to the trade I believe) or Powers or A. Gray straight up (which is probably too much to give up, but you would have Vivians to replace them).


Richyyy



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PostPosted: 03/29/18 2:31 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I don't think anyone's said anything official about Plaisance. The Wings completely ignored the injury when they announced they were re-signing her, as far as I know, so it's up in the air.

J-Spoon wrote:
If not would drafting Russell at 6 and Atkins at 18 be a best case scenario?

But if you took the specific teams out of the equation - it was just Random Team A picking first, Team B second etc. - where is Russell going? Is it even in the first round? Because outside of a couple of people following the "Can't Teach Height" mantra, or who just think Tennessee is such a cesspool that anyone will improve when they escape, I haven't seen anyone excited about getting Russell. There has to be some 6-5 stiff kicking around somewhere if the only reason to take her that high is "we need someone tall". If you think she's genuinely good, fine, take her at #6; otherwise, take someone else with actual talent, and find a backup big somewhere else. Reaching for a post is how they ended up with Akhator last season.

And I don't expect Atkins to still be there at 18.



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toad455



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PostPosted: 03/29/18 4:28 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Russell's still their best option at #6 and clearly better than Akhator, Lewis & Thornton. So even with Plaisance, Russell is an upgrade with who's on their bench already.



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PostPosted: 03/29/18 9:09 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Billings' transition speed,and versatility on defense > Russell.


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