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myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008
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 Posted: 02/24/18 3:05 pm ::: |
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| summertime blues wrote: |
I am most certainly not "applauding" it. I think it's ridiculous. I am, however, disgusted by the behavior of the Missouri AD and think he should have been admonished and perhaps penalized by the SEC and should have been forced to apologize. He was way out of line. Of course if the president of his institution had made him apologize immediately, that might not even have been necessary. |
He WAS penalized by the SEC. But that isn't enough for Dawn. Did she then withdraw her suit? No. As for apologies, did she apologize for her comments after the game at Mizzou? No, I don't think so. Was she penalized for her comments? No. Why not? To me, she's stirring up the pot, when it's much better for everyone to just move on. We've become such a lawsuit-happy country that it's pretty ridiculous. I never had anything against her before, but this IMO puts a check mark in the negative column. It's not bravery, it's pettiness and sour grapes about losing the game in Mizzou. I don't particularly like pettiness. And if anything it puts more 'negative' on her good name rather than 'clearing' her good name. JMO
Furthermore, if you look at other rivalries, there's always lots of name-calling. The Mizzou guy made the mistake of naming her directly rather than saying "the program" which is the favorite euphemism for claiming a coach is doing something 'wrong'.
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if only we’re brave enough to see it.
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calbearman76
Joined: 02 Nov 2009
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Location: Carson City
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| Posted: 02/24/18 3:36 pm ::: |
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| calbearman76 wrote: |
| dtsnms wrote: |
I'm pretty surprised at the responses in this thread actually.
I applaud Staley for pushing the buttons to get this guy fined like he was.
Staley's criticizing after the first game didnt't accuse a coach or admiinstrator by name of fostering an air of hostility like the AD did.
I believe the SEC did investigate the incidents reported by Missouri, and found nothing to support them. But he still said what he did (if I have the order of events correct).
The SEC could have prevented this if they had acted right away, and if an apology was issued. |
Actually the wording from the article states, "USC Athletic Director Ray Tanner [said] that the accusations were investigated and nothing was confirmed." That is a far cry from saying they didn't occur. Additionally, that was a University investigation. The SEC said, "a conference-led review of South Carolina's game management procedures and visiting team security will be mandated."
The statement that Sterk is getting sued for is "It wasn't a great atmosphere, It was really kind of unhealthy, if you will. We had our players spit on, and called the N-word and things like that. It was not a good environment and unfortunately, I think Coach Staley promoted that kind of atmosphere, and it's unfortunate that she felt she had to do that.
Anyone who watched the game would admit that the atmosphere was toxic, particularly after the altercation. The announcers commented on some inappropriate comments from the crowd. During the altercation Missouri's coach went to her player, Sophie Cunningham, and escorted her off the court. Meanwhile Dawn Staley was out on the court arguing with the officials. This can certainly be seen as promoting the atmosphere that existed. In any event, while I can understand the fine by the SEC by the letter of the law I believe that Sterk's comment is by and large accurate as it relates to Staley. Perhaps she didn't feel she had to do it, but given her history, it seems more likely she did. Note that he only said she promoted the atmosphere, not that she endorsed the activity.
Finally, it seems that filing this lawsuit is just as much a violation of the same bylaw. It is also public criticism of a member institution's administrator. Fine her too. |
dtsnms wrote
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Cal my statement was it was investigated with nothing to support; I have no idea if it really happened.
My problem, like I said on twitter, is Staley's comments from both games were about specific incidents, and the appointment of the reffing team. Nothing specific about any Missouri player, coach, administrator etc.
Sterk's comments were about how a specific person, Staley, "promoted that kind of atmosphere, and it's unfortunate she felt she had to do that."
That's the crux to me; if he had just said SC didn't control their crowd, their players committed hard fouls, or whatever, it's cool.
You just cannot IMO, unless you have cold hard facts, call out the coach, especially one who has a freaking WNBA award named after her for community leadership and behavior, and not expect push back for damaging her reputation.
The conference should have had him apologize right away for personalizing it, and this goes away.
Just my opinion. |
My primary objection to your statement was that the SEC had investigated the matter, which they haven't. The secondary point was that Staley directly called out the reffing team for being assigned to the game. That doesn't violate the SEC bylaw, but I believe it is more defamatory, and could have more of a financial impact on those officials, than the ADs statements would in any way have on Staley. I believe that Staley, like one of her mentors, John Cheney who coached the men's team when Staley started coaching at Temple, uses that type of intimidation and in this case Sterk said it. I agree with him, but I also agree that it violates SEC rules. But Staley's response is absurd, and that is why I believe she should be fined as well. Neither side is distinguishing itself as an Institution of Higher Learning.
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Ex-Ref
Joined: 04 Oct 2009
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| Posted: 02/24/18 4:04 pm ::: |
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This thing about Staley's lawsuit is that she had time to think about this and be counseled as to whether it was the RIGHT thing to do vs. something that she has a right to do.
I think that I see the AD's comments as more of a heat of the moment/frustration thing.
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"Women are judged on their success, men on their potential. It’s time we started believing in the potential of women." —Muffet McGraw
“Thank you for showing the fellas that you've got more balls than them,” Haley said, to cheers from the crowd.
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dtsnms
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 02/25/18 9:02 am ::: |
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Some really good discussion here! I applaud everyone’s opinions. I don’t think I have anything else to add to it though at this point.
This is the stuff that is great about the board not the other crap. Thanks!
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FrozenLVFan
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FrozenLVFan
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calbearman76
Joined: 02 Nov 2009
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FrozenLVFan
Joined: 08 Jul 2014
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| Posted: 02/25/18 1:07 pm ::: |
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That first link is to the game in Missouri.
The second link contains dozens of posts about the scrum/brawl and player interactions, but the only ones on point about the issues inciting the lawsuit are your own:
"The Missouri coaches did everything they could to diffuse the situation, keeping their cool and calming their players. I didn't even see Pingeton go off even though two of her players were thrown out and SC was given foul shots for a ticky-tack reason. On the other hand Dawn Staley came out on the court and used the opportunity to yell at the officials and most likely incite the fans. The rules say that she has a reason to come out on the court in that instance to try to settle down the situation, but once again her actions were just the opposite."
Followed by, after Sterk subsequently made his comment:
"I would like to see the SEC take action against Dawn Staley, and if they want to balance things out against the AD for Missouri. Staley did nothing to calm tensions during the skirmish and was in fact arguing with the refs as the crowd was getting riled up. That should have drawn a technical. As for the Missouri AD, while I generally agree with his comments, particularly about how Staley acted after the first Missouri game, I believe he would have been better served taking this up directly with the SEC in private."
and this one from someone else during the game discussion:
"Somewhere else, some one claimed that SC fans used racial epithets which makes no sense because SC's whole squad is black and the majority of Missouri's squad is not. It is well reported that Mizzou fans called SC players thugs in the previous game which again made no sense because Missouri was the more aggressive team to say the least..."
So I'm guessing the broadcast showed no egregious spitting or N-word type behavior by the fans, and I can't find any links to videos of the fan incidents on Twitter or YouTube. Did anyone actually see/hear the fan actions that incited Sterk's complaints? Actual videos of Dawn's behavior followed by the fan stuff would help his case immensely.
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calbearman76
Joined: 02 Nov 2009
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| Posted: 02/25/18 1:34 pm ::: |
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My supposition is that there were a few inappropriate comments, including the likelihood of a few racial slurs, based only on having been in similar situations in many other games. The reaction of the fans in the immediate aftermath of the altercation was ugly, but not to the point of throwing things on the court. From what I saw on TV Staley did nothing to calm the crowd. I don't know if anyone else from the USC administration did so. I doubt seriously whether there was more than one or two people that actually spit, but at the same time I suspect that at least one player reported that, and the report could have been made mistakenly (even if just hit by moisture of some other kind) running off the court.
In terms of how this should have been handled, I point to the USC (the other one) - Oregon St game in Corvallis. After the game there were similar claims of racial slurs hurled by fans at USC as they left the court (made by players via twitter). Oregon St administration immediately took ownership and said they would investigate, making clear there was no place for that type of activity. And those comments were echoed by Coach Rueck and Gill Coliseum security.
The adults need to act like adults, and neither Sterk nor Staley have done so.
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PlayBally'all
Joined: 17 Oct 2013
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| Posted: 02/25/18 7:07 pm ::: |
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| Staley does the EXACT things that the Mizzou AD pointed out. I have seen and heard her and her foul mouth personally. I have heard Staley use the N word and much worse. I had to move my family from our seats, which are about 7 rows up behind the visiting team's bench, because we had a 5 year old with us that did not need to be exposed to that language.
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FrozenLVFan
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| Posted: 02/25/18 8:14 pm ::: |
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| I would have thought the AD or other university official would have had a little chat with her about that language well before now. It wouldn't be tolerated at most schools I'm personally familiar with. However, she's got some powerful backing. SC Gov. Henry McMaster tweeted this yesterday... "Anything short of a full retraction & apology from @SEC and @Mizzou is an insult to every South Carolinian. @dawnstaley is GOLD MEDAL role model for our daughters and sons. We stand with Dawn. #TeamSC " with a US flag emoji.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 02/25/18 10:31 pm ::: |
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| calbearman76 wrote: |
In terms of how this should have been handled, I point to the USC (the other one) - Oregon St game in Corvallis. After the game there were similar claims of racial slurs hurled by fans at USC as they left the court (made by players via twitter). Oregon St administration immediately took ownership and said they would investigate, making clear there was no place for that type of activity. And those comments were echoed by Coach Rueck and Gill Coliseum security.
The adults need to act like adults, and neither Sterk nor Staley have done so. |
Staley acted exactly the opposite to Rueck. She said something to the effect of that the SCar fans have supported her and her team and she wanted them to keep acting just the way they've been acting. Bottom line is she doesn't give a shit what happened at the Missouri game, what they say, or how they act, as long as they show up at games and join her little personal cult. As long as they bow down to her they're free to act anyway they want.
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
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| Posted: 02/26/18 5:04 pm ::: |
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| I've seen Robin Pingeton do some of the same things they're dinging Staley for (arguing with refs in a tense situation, etc). She's no saint. The door swings both ways.
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It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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ArtBest23
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WNBA 09
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Ex-Ref
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| Posted: 02/27/18 12:22 am ::: |
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Then there's Buzz Williams at VT.
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With a vulgar chant audible on ESPN’s college basketball broadcast on Monday, Williams walked over to the public address announcer’s seat and took the microphone.
He told the students to cut out the profanity. |
http://ftw.usatoday.com/2018/02/virginia-tech-buzz-williams-coach-mic-stop-cursing-video-duke-college-basketball-students
_________________
"Women are judged on their success, men on their potential. It’s time we started believing in the potential of women." —Muffet McGraw
“Thank you for showing the fellas that you've got more balls than them,” Haley said, to cheers from the crowd.
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purduefanatic
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PUmatty
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wnbashockballa
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| Posted: 02/27/18 11:08 am ::: |
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| RavenDog wrote: |
| The suit was unnecessary; that's what we're referring to... |
I don't think so the alleged allegation was that "staley" an afro American was pushing the agenda that its ok for s.c. fans to impose racist remarks at opposing teams afro American player. yes its south carolina were maybe a fan or two might say something crazy like that but to say a black coach is ok with fans making remarks at black players is a swing and a miss. the AD was salty that his team loss and released that statement which was a bad look.
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summertime blues
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summertime blues
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| Posted: 02/27/18 1:57 pm ::: |
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| wnbashockballa wrote: |
| RavenDog wrote: |
| The suit was unnecessary; that's what we're referring to... |
I don't think so the alleged allegation was that "staley" an afro American was pushing the agenda that its ok for s.c. fans to impose racist remarks at opposing teams afro American player. yes its south carolina were maybe a fan or two might say something crazy like that but to say a black coach is ok with fans making remarks at black players is a swing and a miss. the AD was salty that his team loss and released that statement which was a bad look. |
Exactly. And his danged university president did not publicly admonish him, which made it look like he was backing him. ~SMDH~
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Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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ArtBest23
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| Posted: 02/27/18 2:29 pm ::: |
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| wnbashockballa wrote: |
| RavenDog wrote: |
| The suit was unnecessary; that's what we're referring to... |
I don't think so the alleged allegation was that "staley" an afro American was pushing the agenda that its ok for s.c. fans to impose racist remarks at opposing teams afro American player. yes its south carolina were maybe a fan or two might say something crazy like that but to say a black coach is ok with fans making remarks at black players is a swing and a miss. the AD was salty that his team loss and released that statement which was a bad look. |
One might think so if they were't paying attention.
But I see no support for that assumption in this case.
By all appearances and comments she seems perfectly ok with them saying or doing anything they damn well please as long as they keep supporting her.
If you have some evidence or statements indicating she actually cares a bit about what they say or do, please let us all know. All I heard from her was "the fans have supported us, I want them to keep doing just what they've been doing."
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