RebKell's Junkie Boards
Board Junkies Forums
 
Log in Register FAQ Memberlist Search RebKell's Junkie Boards Forum Index

Angel McCoughtry sick and tired of...
Goto page Previous  1, 2
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    RebKell's Junkie Boards Forum Index » WNBA
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
pilight



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 57581
Location: Where the action is


Back to top
PostPosted: 02/17/18 4:11 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
That's like complaining that you don't make as much money selling Fiats as your neighbor makes selling Porsches.


A complaint like that would not be surprising either.

Everybody wants to make more money. Not sure why it's such a big deal when a WNBA player says so.



_________________
Make lots of noise
Kiss lots of boys
Or kiss lots of girls
If that's something you're into
When the straight and narrow
Gets a little too straight
Roll up a joint, or don't
Just follow your arrow
Wherever it points, yeah
Follow your arrow
Wherever it points
justintyme



Joined: 08 Jul 2012
Posts: 7082
Location: Northfield, MN


Back to top
PostPosted: 02/17/18 4:49 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:

Everybody wants to make more money. Not sure why it's such a big deal when a WNBA player says so.

I think it is the whole "demand" bit that people take umbrage to. It's normal to want more money, but when it becomes framed like an "equality" issue on par with companies paying women less than men for the same job it becomes off-putting. This is like a female CEO of a small corporation who is making a million a year complaining about inequality because men like Jeff Bezos or Tim Cook make a hundred times that.



_________________
↑↑↓↓←→←→BA
pilight



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 57581
Location: Where the action is


Back to top
PostPosted: 02/17/18 4:56 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

justintyme wrote:
pilight wrote:

Everybody wants to make more money. Not sure why it's such a big deal when a WNBA player says so.

I think it is the whole "demand" bit that people take umbrage to. It's normal to want more money, but when it becomes framed like an "equality" issue on par with companies paying women less than men for the same job it becomes off-putting. This is like a female CEO of a small corporation who is making a million a year complaining about inequality because men like Jeff Bezos or Tim Cook make a hundred times that.


Did you watch the video? Nothing there could be reasonably construed as a "demand" by anyone other than a tabloid headline writer looking for clicks.



_________________
Make lots of noise
Kiss lots of boys
Or kiss lots of girls
If that's something you're into
When the straight and narrow
Gets a little too straight
Roll up a joint, or don't
Just follow your arrow
Wherever it points, yeah
Follow your arrow
Wherever it points
Michelle89



Joined: 17 Nov 2010
Posts: 15411
Location: Holland


Back to top
PostPosted: 02/17/18 5:55 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

akronborn wrote:


Everything has to add up. It's not a theoretical thing where you just decide there should be equal pay. There has to be the profits to justify it.


You think that NBA bench warmers make the profits for the NBA Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes
They earn more then the whole salary cap for an WNBA team while making up new handshake routines for their team..



_________________
"Sue Bird and Lauren Jackson were and are the dynamic duo. They're the one-two punch. They're all the clich�s possible to describe people that perfectly complement each other, who make each other better and also bring out the best in the team." �Karen Bryant
jap



Joined: 01 Apr 2007
Posts: 7445



Back to top
PostPosted: 02/17/18 6:38 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

As long as the USA sports audience has a net bias against female athletes, there will always be a dramatic difference in pay scale.

The only major sport where female pay is comparative with the male income is tennis . . . and it took the super athletic achievements and resultant popularity of the Williams Sisters to headline the push in that direction. The Williams Sisters by themselves have been the biggest audience draw in all tennis for years---male or female.



_________________
Regards,
J A P
justintyme



Joined: 08 Jul 2012
Posts: 7082
Location: Northfield, MN


Back to top
PostPosted: 02/17/18 7:11 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Michelle89 wrote:

You think that NBA bench warmers make the profits for the NBA Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes
They earn more then the whole salary cap for an WNBA team while making up new handshake routines for their team..

Except they play an important role which a multi-billion dollar industry requires to survive. The women play an important role in an industry that doesn’t make much money at all.

Really the men's league shouldn't weigh into this equation at all other than an end-game goal for which the league should strive. Comparisons between the two are are worthless as comparing the earnings of a mom and pop store to the earnings of Wal-mart.



_________________
↑↑↓↓←→←→BA
justintyme



Joined: 08 Jul 2012
Posts: 7082
Location: Northfield, MN


Back to top
PostPosted: 02/17/18 7:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:

Did you watch the video? Nothing there could be reasonably construed as a "demand" by anyone other than a tabloid headline writer looking for clicks.


"Pay us like you pay the men. I don't want to get paid more overseas. I want to get paid in my country."



_________________
↑↑↓↓←→←→BA
Randy



Joined: 08 Oct 2011
Posts: 8654



Back to top
PostPosted: 02/17/18 7:44 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

She said "My advice - pay us like you pay the men...." Not a demand, and she was asked for her advice. Also, without putting to fine of a point on it, perhaps she was complaining about the inequity of being paid essentially the same a 40% of the players in the league, as opposed to men's game where at least the big stars get paid a lot more than the other players. If so, then that's a legitimate gripe.


pilight



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 57581
Location: Where the action is


Back to top
PostPosted: 02/17/18 8:02 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

justintyme wrote:
pilight wrote:

Did you watch the video? Nothing there could be reasonably construed as a "demand" by anyone other than a tabloid headline writer looking for clicks.


"Pay us like you pay the men. I don't want to get paid more overseas. I want to get paid in my country."


She said that was "advice". It's a stretch to call it a demand.



_________________
Make lots of noise
Kiss lots of boys
Or kiss lots of girls
If that's something you're into
When the straight and narrow
Gets a little too straight
Roll up a joint, or don't
Just follow your arrow
Wherever it points, yeah
Follow your arrow
Wherever it points
justintyme



Joined: 08 Jul 2012
Posts: 7082
Location: Northfield, MN


Back to top
PostPosted: 02/17/18 8:18 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Randy wrote:
Also, without putting to fine of a point on it, perhaps she was complaining about the inequity of being paid essentially the same a 40% of the players in the league, as opposed to men's game where at least the big stars get paid a lot more than the other players. If so, then that's a legitimate gripe.

That is a legitimate gripe that she would need to work with her union reps to change. I doubt the owners care much about how the pot is split. So it is her own peers that create that issue.

But we also know that is not what she meant.

If it was just her "advice", then I would ask her for a more realistic alternative. The moment what NBA players make enters the conversation it becomes a non-starter. It really has no place in the conversation of WNBA pay. If players feel they are being underpaid they need to discuss it in terms of their own industry and the money it generates. It is hard to claim you are underpaid when the owners are losing money or at best breaking even.



_________________
↑↑↓↓←→←→BA
PUmatty



Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Posts: 14442
Location: Chicago


Back to top
PostPosted: 02/17/18 8:24 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

justintyme wrote:
It is hard to claim you are underpaid when the owners are losing money or at best breaking even.


My point is just that it can true that she isn't underpaid and also true that it must be really frustrating to know that you are loosing $200 million because you are a woman.

That would make me bitter as hell, even if I completely understood the economics behind it.


Luuuc



Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 18830



Back to top
PostPosted: 02/17/18 8:24 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

What the NBA players make is real-world proof of the potential earning power of athletes, and basketballers in particular, so I wouldn't say it has no place whatsoever in a conversation about WNBA salary aspirations.
Comparisons need to be thoughtful and contextual, of course.



_________________
Seems rike no one takes me serirousreee
justintyme



Joined: 08 Jul 2012
Posts: 7082
Location: Northfield, MN


Back to top
PostPosted: 02/17/18 8:30 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Luuuc wrote:
What the NBA players make is real-world proof of the potential earning power of athletes, and basketballers in particular, so I wouldn't say it has no place whatsoever in a conversation about WNBA salary aspirations.
Comparisons need to be thoughtful and contextual, of course.

Which is why I wrote, "other than [as] an end-game goal for which the league should strive."



_________________
↑↑↓↓←→←→BA
calbearman76



Joined: 02 Nov 2009
Posts: 3126
Location: Carson City


Back to top
PostPosted: 02/18/18 12:31 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:

Longer doesn't mean better. That's saying Ishtar is better than Casablanca because it had a longer running time.


Agreed. Ishtar is better because Warren Beatty and Dustin Hoffman are more compelling than Humphrey Bogart and Ingrid Bergman. Laughing


Michelle89



Joined: 17 Nov 2010
Posts: 15411
Location: Holland


Back to top
PostPosted: 02/18/18 3:08 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

justintyme wrote:
Michelle89 wrote:

You think that NBA bench warmers make the profits for the NBA Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes
They earn more then the whole salary cap for an WNBA team while making up new handshake routines for their team..

Except they play an important role which a multi-billion dollar industry requires to survive. The women play an important role in an industry that doesn’t make much money at all.

Really the men's league shouldn't weigh into this equation at all other than an end-game goal for which the league should strive. Comparisons between the two are are worthless as comparing the earnings of a mom and pop store to the earnings of Wal-mart.


They do? I see little reason why nba teams have 15-16 players on their roster.. When they get injuries to their rotation players they will not play those last 3-4 players anyway. They will sign other ones and drop these players. So those benchwarmers and players who cant even sit on the bench dont play an important role in that industry..



_________________
"Sue Bird and Lauren Jackson were and are the dynamic duo. They're the one-two punch. They're all the clich�s possible to describe people that perfectly complement each other, who make each other better and also bring out the best in the team." �Karen Bryant
akronborn



Joined: 29 Jun 2005
Posts: 1470
Location: Right Hynaw -- Cartman


Back to top
PostPosted: 02/23/18 1:01 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Michelle89 wrote:
akronborn wrote:


Everything has to add up. It's not a theoretical thing where you just decide there should be equal pay. There has to be the profits to justify it.


You think that NBA bench warmers make the profits for the NBA Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes
They earn more then the whole salary cap for an WNBA team while making up new handshake routines for their team..


The economics of the NBA make it so that scrubs can make those salaries, so they are justified. If the WNBA made those profits, our scrubs would make a minimum on par with theirs.


Michelle89



Joined: 17 Nov 2010
Posts: 15411
Location: Holland


Back to top
PostPosted: 02/23/18 3:15 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

akronborn wrote:
Michelle89 wrote:
akronborn wrote:


Everything has to add up. It's not a theoretical thing where you just decide there should be equal pay. There has to be the profits to justify it.


You think that NBA bench warmers make the profits for the NBA Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes
They earn more then the whole salary cap for an WNBA team while making up new handshake routines for their team..


The economics of the NBA make it so that scrubs can make those salaries, so they are justified. If the WNBA made those profits, our scrubs would make a minimum on par with theirs.


No they wouldnt because WNBA has a max of 2 end of the bench players (12 on the roster) while NBA teams have around 4-6 (16 total)



_________________
"Sue Bird and Lauren Jackson were and are the dynamic duo. They're the one-two punch. They're all the clich�s possible to describe people that perfectly complement each other, who make each other better and also bring out the best in the team." �Karen Bryant
akronborn



Joined: 29 Jun 2005
Posts: 1470
Location: Right Hynaw -- Cartman


Back to top
PostPosted: 02/23/18 4:27 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I'm not sure of your point. The WNBA has always had scrubs on some teams a the end of the bench, even if they almost never contribute anything to justify their worth. They still got paid. If the WNBA made a greater profit, the CBA would call for them getting the minimum salary like everyone else. There are still Kelley Gibsons (no disrespect to her) running around and keeping a job, and they'd make $500k+ if the WNBA made a similar profit and agreed to the same minimum salary as the NBA.Despite the small number of teams and fewer players per team, there are still players who make one scratch one's head at them continuing to secure a spot.


ClayK



Joined: 11 Oct 2005
Posts: 9319



Back to top
PostPosted: 02/23/18 10:30 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

So a player at the level of McCoughtry who stays healthy and motivated can probably make around $5 million playing basketball before the age of 35.

Sure, there are hassles in Europe, and you have to play year-round, but it is a job, after all, and most people do not have great jobs in their 20s and early 30s.

And very, very few people make that kind of money at any age ...



_________________
Oṃ Tāre Tuttāre Ture Svāhā
RavenDog



Joined: 19 Feb 2007
Posts: 5837



Back to top
PostPosted: 02/23/18 11:39 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Maybe the NBA should reduce the men's salaries to be equal with the women's.
I'd be in favor of this. Reduce ticket prices, vendor prices, parking fees etc. so everyone can afford to attend a game.

I'd also like to see how the men would do playing with the hoop raised 1 foot where they'd have to exhibit a full plate of more and better basketball skills, run, pass, screen, and play defense like the women.

Then, the games would be equal and so would the pay...


PUmatty



Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Posts: 14442
Location: Chicago


Back to top
PostPosted: 02/23/18 12:24 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
So a player at the level of McCoughtry who stays healthy and motivated can probably make around $5 million playing basketball before the age of 35.

Sure, there are hassles in Europe, and you have to play year-round, but it is a job, after all, and most people do not have great jobs in their 20s and early 30s.

And very, very few people make that kind of money at any age ...


And yet, if she had been born a man, she would make many, many times more than that. Who can blame someone for being frustrated by that ...


myrtle



Joined: 02 May 2008
Posts: 23316



Back to top
PostPosted: 02/23/18 1:12 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I too think the salaries paid to the men are totally unreasonable in the context of what other people in society make. Let's lower those! Razz And as Raven says, lower the costs to go see them play as well! And lower the salaries of the exec...

I would however like to see more differentiation between the top w players and the middle core and the bottom dwellers. Paying a #6 or #7 player the same salary as a #1 or #2 is not right IMO. Ditto for paying a #6 or #7 player the same as #11 or #12. To keep it in the context of the current salary cap, give a max of 2 players $120 and 2 players $100 and require all the rest to be under $80. As Clay mentions, it would be difficult for almost all of them to make anything like that for the 10 years after they come out of college.

Plus I learned a long time ago that comparison with others is going down a losing road. There are always many others with much 'less' and many others with much 'more'. Big deal.



_________________
“Try to be a rainbow in someone's cloud.”
― Maya Angelou
SO ...I lost a bet with Rock about how many wins Chicago would get this year. My punishment - T. Young as my avatar. Well it could be worse!
myrtle



Joined: 02 May 2008
Posts: 23316



Back to top
PostPosted: 02/23/18 1:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

PUmatty wrote:
ClayK wrote:
So a player at the level of McCoughtry who stays healthy and motivated can probably make around $5 million playing basketball before the age of 35.

Sure, there are hassles in Europe, and you have to play year-round, but it is a job, after all, and most people do not have great jobs in their 20s and early 30s.

And very, very few people make that kind of money at any age ...


And yet, if she had been born a man, she would make many, many times more than that. Who can blame someone for being frustrated by that ...


That's making the very large leap that she would be the same level of athlete as a man as she is as a woman.



_________________
“Try to be a rainbow in someone's cloud.”
― Maya Angelou
SO ...I lost a bet with Rock about how many wins Chicago would get this year. My punishment - T. Young as my avatar. Well it could be worse!
PUmatty



Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Posts: 14442
Location: Chicago


Back to top
PostPosted: 02/23/18 2:21 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

myrtle wrote:
PUmatty wrote:
ClayK wrote:
So a player at the level of McCoughtry who stays healthy and motivated can probably make around $5 million playing basketball before the age of 35.

Sure, there are hassles in Europe, and you have to play year-round, but it is a job, after all, and most people do not have great jobs in their 20s and early 30s.

And very, very few people make that kind of money at any age ...


And yet, if she had been born a man, she would make many, many times more than that. Who can blame someone for being frustrated by that ...


That's making the very large leap that she would be the same level of athlete as a man as she is as a woman.


There is no reason to think she wouldn't be. There is especially no reason for her (or another world class female player) to think she wouldn't be.


Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    RebKell's Junkie Boards Forum Index » WNBA All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2
Page 2 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB 2.0.17 © 2001- 2004 phpBB Group
phpBB Template by Vjacheslav Trushkin