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pilight



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PostPosted: 02/17/18 4:11 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
That's like complaining that you don't make as much money selling Fiats as your neighbor makes selling Porsches.


A complaint like that would not be surprising either.

Everybody wants to make more money. Not sure why it's such a big deal when a WNBA player says so.



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justintyme



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PostPosted: 02/17/18 4:49 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:

Everybody wants to make more money. Not sure why it's such a big deal when a WNBA player says so.

I think it is the whole "demand" bit that people take umbrage to. It's normal to want more money, but when it becomes framed like an "equality" issue on par with companies paying women less than men for the same job it becomes off-putting. This is like a female CEO of a small corporation who is making a million a year complaining about inequality because men like Jeff Bezos or Tim Cook make a hundred times that.



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pilight



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PostPosted: 02/17/18 4:56 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

justintyme wrote:
pilight wrote:

Everybody wants to make more money. Not sure why it's such a big deal when a WNBA player says so.

I think it is the whole "demand" bit that people take umbrage to. It's normal to want more money, but when it becomes framed like an "equality" issue on par with companies paying women less than men for the same job it becomes off-putting. This is like a female CEO of a small corporation who is making a million a year complaining about inequality because men like Jeff Bezos or Tim Cook make a hundred times that.


Did you watch the video? Nothing there could be reasonably construed as a "demand" by anyone other than a tabloid headline writer looking for clicks.



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Michelle89



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PostPosted: 02/17/18 5:55 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

akronborn wrote:


Everything has to add up. It's not a theoretical thing where you just decide there should be equal pay. There has to be the profits to justify it.


You think that NBA bench warmers make the profits for the NBA Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes
They earn more then the whole salary cap for an WNBA team while making up new handshake routines for their team..



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jap



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PostPosted: 02/17/18 6:38 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

As long as the USA sports audience has a net bias against female athletes, there will always be a dramatic difference in pay scale.

The only major sport where female pay is comparative with the male income is tennis . . . and it took the super athletic achievements and resultant popularity of the Williams Sisters to headline the push in that direction. The Williams Sisters by themselves have been the biggest audience draw in all tennis for years---male or female.



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justintyme



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PostPosted: 02/17/18 7:11 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Michelle89 wrote:

You think that NBA bench warmers make the profits for the NBA Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes
They earn more then the whole salary cap for an WNBA team while making up new handshake routines for their team..

Except they play an important role which a multi-billion dollar industry requires to survive. The women play an important role in an industry that doesn’t make much money at all.

Really the men's league shouldn't weigh into this equation at all other than an end-game goal for which the league should strive. Comparisons between the two are are worthless as comparing the earnings of a mom and pop store to the earnings of Wal-mart.



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justintyme



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PostPosted: 02/17/18 7:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:

Did you watch the video? Nothing there could be reasonably construed as a "demand" by anyone other than a tabloid headline writer looking for clicks.


"Pay us like you pay the men. I don't want to get paid more overseas. I want to get paid in my country."



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Randy



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PostPosted: 02/17/18 7:44 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

She said "My advice - pay us like you pay the men...." Not a demand, and she was asked for her advice. Also, without putting to fine of a point on it, perhaps she was complaining about the inequity of being paid essentially the same a 40% of the players in the league, as opposed to men's game where at least the big stars get paid a lot more than the other players. If so, then that's a legitimate gripe.


pilight



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PostPosted: 02/17/18 8:02 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

justintyme wrote:
pilight wrote:

Did you watch the video? Nothing there could be reasonably construed as a "demand" by anyone other than a tabloid headline writer looking for clicks.


"Pay us like you pay the men. I don't want to get paid more overseas. I want to get paid in my country."


She said that was "advice". It's a stretch to call it a demand.



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justintyme



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PostPosted: 02/17/18 8:18 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Randy wrote:
Also, without putting to fine of a point on it, perhaps she was complaining about the inequity of being paid essentially the same a 40% of the players in the league, as opposed to men's game where at least the big stars get paid a lot more than the other players. If so, then that's a legitimate gripe.

That is a legitimate gripe that she would need to work with her union reps to change. I doubt the owners care much about how the pot is split. So it is her own peers that create that issue.

But we also know that is not what she meant.

If it was just her "advice", then I would ask her for a more realistic alternative. The moment what NBA players make enters the conversation it becomes a non-starter. It really has no place in the conversation of WNBA pay. If players feel they are being underpaid they need to discuss it in terms of their own industry and the money it generates. It is hard to claim you are underpaid when the owners are losing money or at best breaking even.



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PUmatty



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PostPosted: 02/17/18 8:24 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

justintyme wrote:
It is hard to claim you are underpaid when the owners are losing money or at best breaking even.


My point is just that it can true that she isn't underpaid and also true that it must be really frustrating to know that you are loosing $200 million because you are a woman.

That would make me bitter as hell, even if I completely understood the economics behind it.


Luuuc
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PostPosted: 02/17/18 8:24 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

What the NBA players make is real-world proof of the potential earning power of athletes, and basketballers in particular, so I wouldn't say it has no place whatsoever in a conversation about WNBA salary aspirations.
Comparisons need to be thoughtful and contextual, of course.



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justintyme



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PostPosted: 02/17/18 8:30 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Luuuc wrote:
What the NBA players make is real-world proof of the potential earning power of athletes, and basketballers in particular, so I wouldn't say it has no place whatsoever in a conversation about WNBA salary aspirations.
Comparisons need to be thoughtful and contextual, of course.

Which is why I wrote, "other than [as] an end-game goal for which the league should strive."



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calbearman76



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PostPosted: 02/18/18 12:31 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:

Longer doesn't mean better. That's saying Ishtar is better than Casablanca because it had a longer running time.


Agreed. Ishtar is better because Warren Beatty and Dustin Hoffman are more compelling than Humphrey Bogart and Ingrid Bergman. Laughing


Michelle89



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PostPosted: 02/18/18 3:08 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

justintyme wrote:
Michelle89 wrote:

You think that NBA bench warmers make the profits for the NBA Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes
They earn more then the whole salary cap for an WNBA team while making up new handshake routines for their team..

Except they play an important role which a multi-billion dollar industry requires to survive. The women play an important role in an industry that doesn’t make much money at all.

Really the men's league shouldn't weigh into this equation at all other than an end-game goal for which the league should strive. Comparisons between the two are are worthless as comparing the earnings of a mom and pop store to the earnings of Wal-mart.


They do? I see little reason why nba teams have 15-16 players on their roster.. When they get injuries to their rotation players they will not play those last 3-4 players anyway. They will sign other ones and drop these players. So those benchwarmers and players who cant even sit on the bench dont play an important role in that industry..



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akronborn



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PostPosted: 02/23/18 1:01 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Michelle89 wrote:
akronborn wrote:


Everything has to add up. It's not a theoretical thing where you just decide there should be equal pay. There has to be the profits to justify it.


You think that NBA bench warmers make the profits for the NBA Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes
They earn more then the whole salary cap for an WNBA team while making up new handshake routines for their team..


The economics of the NBA make it so that scrubs can make those salaries, so they are justified. If the WNBA made those profits, our scrubs would make a minimum on par with theirs.


Michelle89



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PostPosted: 02/23/18 3:15 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

akronborn wrote:
Michelle89 wrote:
akronborn wrote:


Everything has to add up. It's not a theoretical thing where you just decide there should be equal pay. There has to be the profits to justify it.


You think that NBA bench warmers make the profits for the NBA Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes
They earn more then the whole salary cap for an WNBA team while making up new handshake routines for their team..


The economics of the NBA make it so that scrubs can make those salaries, so they are justified. If the WNBA made those profits, our scrubs would make a minimum on par with theirs.


No they wouldnt because WNBA has a max of 2 end of the bench players (12 on the roster) while NBA teams have around 4-6 (16 total)



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akronborn



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PostPosted: 02/23/18 4:27 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I'm not sure of your point. The WNBA has always had scrubs on some teams a the end of the bench, even if they almost never contribute anything to justify their worth. They still got paid. If the WNBA made a greater profit, the CBA would call for them getting the minimum salary like everyone else. There are still Kelley Gibsons (no disrespect to her) running around and keeping a job, and they'd make $500k+ if the WNBA made a similar profit and agreed to the same minimum salary as the NBA.Despite the small number of teams and fewer players per team, there are still players who make one scratch one's head at them continuing to secure a spot.


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PostPosted: 02/23/18 10:30 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

So a player at the level of McCoughtry who stays healthy and motivated can probably make around $5 million playing basketball before the age of 35.

Sure, there are hassles in Europe, and you have to play year-round, but it is a job, after all, and most people do not have great jobs in their 20s and early 30s.

And very, very few people make that kind of money at any age ...



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RavenDog



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PostPosted: 02/23/18 11:39 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Maybe the NBA should reduce the men's salaries to be equal with the women's.
I'd be in favor of this. Reduce ticket prices, vendor prices, parking fees etc. so everyone can afford to attend a game.

I'd also like to see how the men would do playing with the hoop raised 1 foot where they'd have to exhibit a full plate of more and better basketball skills, run, pass, screen, and play defense like the women.

Then, the games would be equal and so would the pay...


PUmatty



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PostPosted: 02/23/18 12:24 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
So a player at the level of McCoughtry who stays healthy and motivated can probably make around $5 million playing basketball before the age of 35.

Sure, there are hassles in Europe, and you have to play year-round, but it is a job, after all, and most people do not have great jobs in their 20s and early 30s.

And very, very few people make that kind of money at any age ...


And yet, if she had been born a man, she would make many, many times more than that. Who can blame someone for being frustrated by that ...


myrtle



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PostPosted: 02/23/18 1:12 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I too think the salaries paid to the men are totally unreasonable in the context of what other people in society make. Let's lower those! Razz And as Raven says, lower the costs to go see them play as well! And lower the salaries of the exec...

I would however like to see more differentiation between the top w players and the middle core and the bottom dwellers. Paying a #6 or #7 player the same salary as a #1 or #2 is not right IMO. Ditto for paying a #6 or #7 player the same as #11 or #12. To keep it in the context of the current salary cap, give a max of 2 players $120 and 2 players $100 and require all the rest to be under $80. As Clay mentions, it would be difficult for almost all of them to make anything like that for the 10 years after they come out of college.

Plus I learned a long time ago that comparison with others is going down a losing road. There are always many others with much 'less' and many others with much 'more'. Big deal.



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myrtle



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PostPosted: 02/23/18 1:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

PUmatty wrote:
ClayK wrote:
So a player at the level of McCoughtry who stays healthy and motivated can probably make around $5 million playing basketball before the age of 35.

Sure, there are hassles in Europe, and you have to play year-round, but it is a job, after all, and most people do not have great jobs in their 20s and early 30s.

And very, very few people make that kind of money at any age ...


And yet, if she had been born a man, she would make many, many times more than that. Who can blame someone for being frustrated by that ...


That's making the very large leap that she would be the same level of athlete as a man as she is as a woman.



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PUmatty



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PostPosted: 02/23/18 2:21 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

myrtle wrote:
PUmatty wrote:
ClayK wrote:
So a player at the level of McCoughtry who stays healthy and motivated can probably make around $5 million playing basketball before the age of 35.

Sure, there are hassles in Europe, and you have to play year-round, but it is a job, after all, and most people do not have great jobs in their 20s and early 30s.

And very, very few people make that kind of money at any age ...


And yet, if she had been born a man, she would make many, many times more than that. Who can blame someone for being frustrated by that ...


That's making the very large leap that she would be the same level of athlete as a man as she is as a woman.


There is no reason to think she wouldn't be. There is especially no reason for her (or another world class female player) to think she wouldn't be.


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