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Michelle89



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PostPosted: 02/15/18 12:56 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Randy wrote:
Shades wrote:
Randy wrote:
How about Clarendon+16 for L. Allen and No. 10?


You don’t like Clarendon? She’s one of Voepel’s top candidates to take Whalen’s spot on Team USA. What are you wanting at #10 that you’d be willing to dispose of Clarendon to move up 6 spots?


I like Clarendon just fine, but we may not be able to keep her, Tip, Angel, Elizabeth and Dantas next season due to the salary cap. Not sure whose contract ends when but I would not be surprised if Tip and or Laysia are FA's next year, along with Angel, while Williams and Dantas will be RFA's. Plus, her name has come up a few times as a trade candidate.

As far as Team USA goes, I don't really care much who makes the team.


5 players getting max is not a problem. If Dantas gets max then they screwed up big time..



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PostPosted: 02/15/18 1:02 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:

It's been pretty convincingly shown that on average players peak at age 27. However, individuals can vary greatly. Nikki Teasley was washed up by age 28. Sheryl Swoopes won the first of her three MVP awards at age 29. Trying to apply a general theory to a specific individual is a crime against statistics.


But what does "peak" mean in practical terms? Even if an athlete peaks at 27, what is the expected rate of decline? If it's like 3% per year so that you're 10% worse at age 30, I don't think it's really worth discussing. It's not like we didn't already know that the human body declines with age. Did anyone need a study to figure that out? Only if there is a rapid, material decline should we worry about people passing their peak age. And then, of course, even that is negated by differences in individuals.

As far as Clarendon goes, I've always liked her going back to her Cal days. I saw her make a lot of big shots in big moments. However, her WNBA career has been all over the place. She's had two good shooting years, two bad shooting years, and one mediocre shooting year. Her assists went way up this past season. Was it a fluke? Just looking at things broadly, Atlanta had three all-stars, the runner-up for rookie of the year (some would say the real ROY), and a decorated veteran in Sancho. So, how come the Dream were 12-22? Why were they 10th in ORtg and 9th in DRtg, which means they were below average on both sides of the ball? If the accolades of the individuals far exceed team performance, that suggests the individuals are overrated. Now, just which players are overrated, I don't know. Clarendon has worse individual ORtg and DRtg than the team (96/105 vs 97.7/102.3), which suggests they're better without her. On the other hand, her Net Plus/Minus is a stellar +9.6 (11th in the league), which implies she really helped her team. These stats themselves are controversial, so that doesn't clarify the picture either. Bottom line is that I don't have a good feel for just how good Clarendon is or could be. Is she better than any PG the Liberty already have on their roster? Probably yes on the offensive end, but how about defense? Remember this has been and is likely to remain a defense-oriented team. And even if Clarendon is better than any PG we have, is she so significantly better that it's worth bending over backward to trade for her? Clarendon likely comes with a big contract, so that has to be factored in. Another consideration is that the Liberty only have limited trade bait. Do we want to use it up on Clarendon? My answer is no.



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PostPosted: 02/15/18 3:06 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Age is an issue, but the Lynx won the WNBA championship last year with only one starter under 30. They also had 3 rotation players over 30. Ironically, they lost the championship the year before when the players were all younger......



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ClayK



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PostPosted: 02/16/18 10:41 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Randy wrote:
Age is an issue, but the Lynx won the WNBA championship last year with only one starter under 30. They also had 3 rotation players over 30. Ironically, they lost the championship the year before when the players were all younger......


Of course ... talent is talent. But the trigger to the comment was about improvement, and improvement is more likely, if not much more likely, from a younger player than an older one. (Usually the key for an older player to "improve" is simply good health.)



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Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 02/16/18 11:16 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
Randy wrote:
Age is an issue, but the Lynx won the WNBA championship last year with only one starter under 30. They also had 3 rotation players over 30. Ironically, they lost the championship the year before when the players were all younger......


Of course ... talent is talent. But the trigger to the comment was about improvement, and improvement is more likely, if not much more likely, from a younger player than an older one. (Usually the key for an older player to "improve" is simply good health.)


You continue to focus on the older players on the Liberty who, with the exception of Rodgers (who had a setback season in 2017), aren't likely to improve. So I'll keep saying: the team has many younger players who *can* improve in 2018. Perhaps none of them will, but it's surely possible.



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PostPosted: 02/16/18 12:23 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The way older players improve is by getting smarter. With each year of experience, a veteran should add to her bag of tricks.

Teams returning the same personnel can improve by executing better. New York spent the first half of last season trying to determine roles (essentially 4 new starters vs 2016) and looking for a style of play that fit. They figured it out in the second half of the season. If New York uses similar rotations and schemes this year, they may be able to bypass the learning stage. In turn, that could lead to a better start. A key to success is continuing their reduction in turnovers. The Liberty went from worst in TOs in 2016 to third best in 2017. I don't think that got enough attention for turning their season around.



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PostPosted: 02/16/18 9:53 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Side note: weren’t they pretty low in assists too? I’d concur that low TOs undeniably help but that was also partially because none of the Libs were making creative offensive plays that are of the risk/reward variety.

As far as our young players go I think I’m holding out the most hope for Stokes. Her FT% and shooting touch improved vastly last year. She just refuses to shoot.

On Zahui, watching her play vs. lower competition she can dominate but against Kursk (guarding Nneka) she looked lost on both ends. Her game is still not at WNBA speed though I think she is slightly improved.

Bec Allen has no counter moves.

Lindsay Allen I also like. Vision/IQ players are a commodity.

Angel and Bonner are back this year. Chicago has two lottery picks. The Liberty have added nothing, though like Root says that might be a good thing in terms of chemistry. Except in the case of the two-guard situation where I think one has to go.

If we add Nurse/Vivians I think that either would be a big addition. That said, getting to 20 wins is going to be hard. The 2018 WNBA is looking more competitive than any of the prior 3 seasons IMO.



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J-Spoon



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PostPosted: 02/17/18 12:40 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Maybe we'll take a step back and strangely have a better end result,

maybe we'll be a .500 team and then win two playoff games and make it to the semi finals (I'd say win a Championship but wanted to keep it a little realistic).

Weirder things have happened?


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PostPosted: 02/17/18 2:32 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The Liberty did drop from 4th in assists to 9th in 2017. However, they were a slightly better offensive team in spite of it. I wouldn't say the assists declined because New York players were less creative. In fact, I would argue that the perimeter of Zellous, Hartley and Prince spent more time creating for themselves than we've seen on recent Liberty teams. What New York didn't do as much was all that stuff with people cutting to the basket and Tina passing out of the post. That's likely the reason assists went down. Anyway, I'm more concerned with overall play. If you look at the differential between ORtg and DRtg, New York improved from +1.0 to +4.0 points. That's a significant jump. Despite their early struggles, the Liberty were a better team in 2017 than 2016.

Look, I would like to have seen the Liberty make changes. I'm not happy with the inactivity. However, I don't think there's any need to panic. Every year we hear that the league is going to be better. But then, unfortunately, a new group of players gets hurt. We also discover that the new season brings a new set of no-shows. Even teams that made a lot of additions will find that their new players need time to blend in. The impact is rarely immediate and sometimes takes until the following season. Also, as is usually the case, most rookies won't live up to their hype. So, even if the league is better, it's likely to be incremental change rather than huge across the board improvement.



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PostPosted: 02/17/18 7:28 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I meant creating for other players but your point is otherwise well taken. I did think we capitalized toward the end on tired teams with long road trips but to be fair those teams did the same thing to us early.

Continuity over turnover may help the Libs this year. But they were heavily reliant at the end of the year in throwing the ball to Tina in the post and having her create. Katie Smith will undoubtedly do new things and I really love Hartley’s fire and competitiveness. But it’s hard to win consistently with a PG who doesn’t see the floor. Can they win consistently playing a more perimeter-oriented game without that one player who is really good at creating for teammates? Or is the best path throwing it into Tina 25 times a game and hoping for the best? Tina emerged from that 10 game winning streak physically beaten up. To continue her on that path might mean more of the same.

To me, Atlanta and Phoenix both have better teams on paper than the Liberty do...and it’s a measurable difference. In past years we saw them win more games than the point differential suggested they should. Now Laimbeer is gone. If the trend of barely positive point differential continues, how will they do under Katie Smith? Possibly just fine. But there’s no way of knowing for sure.



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PostPosted: 02/17/18 9:59 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Like I've said, I'm not happy about the inactivity either but there's nothing we can do about it. I'm just going to remain calm and hope that Katie has a plan. If she doesn't, there's still nothing we can do about it. Smile I guess I've learned not to go crazy over things I can't control -- especially when it's about a situation where you're not sure if the parties involved are trying or have their hands tied.



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PostPosted: 02/17/18 10:04 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

It is valuable to assess regular-season play and data, as has been done above by various people. Lots of excellent questions and observations have been posted. But no one has discussed the question that haunts me: what about the playoffs? Why have the Liberty underperformed in the playoffs for three consecutive seasons? It's not like they were eliminated by eventual WNBA champions that I'd say were clearly better (Minnesota and Los Angeles).

The only reason I feel sure about--and at best this is only part of the answer--is that Tina Charles understandably wears down. Bill Laimbeer said many times that he had to rest her more to keep her fresh for the playoffs, but he didn't. I'd like Katie Smith to decide--whether she says it publicly or not--that this can't continue. That Tina Charles has to rest more during the regular season, even if it costs the team a few wins. Indeed, even with only a 34-game season, I believe Smith should consider the growing NBA pattern of occasionally giving a star a night off.

Beyond that, I believe it has to be asked: was Bill Laimbeer a factor in the Liberty's disappointments in the postseason in recent years? I have great respect for Laimbeer. But despite excellent regular seasons, his recent Liberty teams lost when it counted most. Including compiling a really bad record in postseason games at home.

I'm not sure why the Liberty have disappointed in recent postseasons. But I hope Katie Smith can figure that out.



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PostPosted: 02/17/18 10:33 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bob Lamm wrote:
It is valuable to assess regular-season play and data, as has been done above by various people. Lots of excellent questions and observations have been posted. But no one has discussed the question that haunts me: what about the playoffs? Why have the Liberty underperformed in the playoffs for three consecutive seasons? It's not like they were eliminated by eventual WNBA champions that I'd say were clearly better (Minnesota and Los Angeles).

The only reason I feel sure about--and at best this is only part of the answer--is that Tina Charles understandably wears down. Bill Laimbeer said many times that he had to rest her more to keep her fresh for the playoffs, but he didn't. I'd like Katie Smith to decide--whether she says it publicly or not--that this can't continue. That Tina Charles has to rest more during the regular season, even if it costs the team a few wins. Indeed, even with only a 34-game season, I believe Smith should consider the growing NBA pattern of occasionally giving a star a night off.

Beyond that, I believe it has to be asked: was Bill Laimbeer a factor in the Liberty's disappointments in the postseason in recent years? I have great respect for Laimbeer. But despite excellent regular seasons, his recent Liberty teams lost when it counted most. Including compiling a really bad record in postseason games at home.

I'm not sure why the Liberty have disappointed in recent postseasons. But I hope Katie Smith can figure that out.


I’ve discussed the playoff failures numerous times. Elimination games tend to revolve around perimeter play and versatility. Each of the teams we lost to had better overall perimeter play when you assess scoring, creating, ball handling and passing. Toss in last year we were in a height-matchup nightmare that led to a lot of offensive rebounds by DC, some of which were converted into Toliver 3s. Having Z with a seven-inch height disadvantage on EDD meant we couldn’t also focus on Toliver who killed us in one-on-one matchups.

In short, two of the three defeats have involved a major height mismatch. All 3 involved a perimeter disadvantage. A major common denominator in all 3 is that Sugar is a two-guard only on a team with a glut of them. Not a passer/ball handler. Too small for the 3 spot. Having Piph and Sugar together again probably leads to the same type of team.

One plus is that there are two true rookie SFs in Nurse and Vivians who fit the size/athleticism situation. Nurse IMO is WNBA ready with the floor game the Libs generally lack. Vivians IMO is less WNBA ready and does not have the same floor game.

Neither necessarily makes us championship caliber but Nurse would definitely fill a major need if she lasts till 10.



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PostPosted: 02/17/18 12:32 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I see the three playoff situations as very different with very little commonality. In 2015, the Liberty just weren't that good despite their record. Remember that undefeated West Coast trip? The Liberty won a lot of ugly games shooting like 37%, and we fans were all sitting around scratching our heads. Did that really happen? How long can it go on? As far as Tina running out of gas, she played well throughout the playoffs until that last game against Indiana. Losing Boyd at the end of the season didn't help either. Bottom line is NY scored 51 points in that last game. They scored 20 points in the second half of the prior game. 71 points over six quarters is just putrid. Very simply, New York lost the series to Indiana because their offense collapsed.

In 2016, the Liberty limped into the playoffs. They had a losing record after the Olympic break, and they had a bunch of injuries -- including long-term hits to Stokes and Wright. Despite the teams' records, I think most Liberty fans went into that game expecting them to lose. Instead, the Liberty played pretty well -- at least on offense -- but Phoenix probably played their best game of the year. They had 21 assists on 34 baskets, shot 9-20 45% from 3Pt, and were a perfect 24-24 at the line. Wright ended up playing very well for NY, but Stokes was pretty much useless. It helps to explain how the defensive-minded Liberty managed to score 94 points but lose anyway. They couldn't get a stop and gave up 101 points. On that day, either New York's defense collapsed or Phoenix's offense was simply that good. In no way did this resemble 2015.

In 2017, the Liberty had a 14 point lead through the middle of the 2nd Quarter. Then Zellous got hurt and had to come out of the game. Once that happened, Hartley seemed to melt down without ballhandling help from Shavonte. Bria started to turn the ball over. Tina tried to step in by playing hero-ball, but that made it easier for DC to collapse on her. Now, Tina was turning the ball over. While NY was giving the ball away, Toliver got a couple of open looks and made them. Now she's feeling it, and you never want Toliver getting hot in a big game. Note that Kristi started the game 0-3. In the previous two regular-season losses to NY, she shot 3-10 (2-7 3pt) and 1-7 (0-5 3pt). Overall, Toliver had a somewhat disappointing season with her numbers dipping across the board. But on that day, she went 10-17 after the slow start, including 9-13 3pt. Those nine 3-pointers were a playoff record. By definition, any time a record is set, that qualifies as an unusual event -- a fluke if you will. Most of those shots were tough heat-check type hoists that you'd normally want an opponent to take. For this game, they were going in. And it's not like Toliver was getting a lot of help. EDD had to make a couple of late meaningless baskets to get her shooting stats up to 8-21 38.1%. Meesseman was an ugly 2-12 16.7%, including a bunch of missed lay-ups. Delle Donne did make an impact with 10 rebounds, although Zellous playing injured after returning probably made for easier pickings. The player who really hurt NY in this game and in the prior regular season game was Krystal Thomas. I think that's a situation where superior size really did help our opponent. Vaughn and Stokes struggled against Thomas both on offense and off the boards. Looking at the overall picture, I don't see how this game resembles the Phoenix loss or the defeats against Indiana.



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PostPosted: 02/17/18 1:05 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I think size helps...or hinders...in ways that individual stats don’t indicate. The more outsized you are, the more you have to help on defense. The more you do that, the more offensive rebounds you yield. Also, the more you help on defense, the more energy you expend. On offense, the less talent you have the more energy you expend. Adding talent and size in the need areas we’ve discussed would enable us to rely even more on talent and less on energy being the main component.

In 2016 a large portion of the team was hurt and in 2015 the team wasn’t that good. I agree with both of those statements.

I feel that taking another step forward has to involve more than out-working or out-grinding opponents when we are in situations where opponents usually have some physical advantages.

We’ve discussed upgrading size at SF and post. Is it possible to do both? That’s what would truly make us better. Especially in a one and done, which is still a crapshoot.



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PostPosted: 02/17/18 4:02 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I agree on the need to improve size -- I was just making the point that we can't generalize about how NY lost the last three playoffs. Earlier, I had suggested letting Vaughn walk and signing Kizer. Obviously, both of those options are now gone. If Russell falls, I would take her. I've explained my logic in previous posts. She's a roll of the dice in terms of intensity, but I see talent there. Otherwise, I'm not sure about posts. You can bring in a bunch of overseas players and see if they stick. Phoenix had some success doing that last year. The fact is, the bottom four players on most rosters can easily be replaced by overseas free agents. You may prefer to keep some young players based on potential or veterans based on leadership, but in terms of immediate help on the court, these second chance types can work as well. Think Emma Cannon, Yvonne Turner, Sammi Whitcomb, Nayo Raincock-Ekunwe, Kayla Thornton, etc. Fans look down on them initially because they're viewed as rejects -- players undrafted or previously cut. But I see them as players who just took a little longer to develop. I haven't watched much overseas basketball this winter, so I don't have any firm suggestions. Can old pals Kelley Cain or Quanitra Hollingsworth be Krystal Thomas-ish in the post? I noticed Crystal Bradford is having a good season in Israel. She was always considered a good, strong athlete which earned her berths on various USA teams despite attending a mid-major college. However, she arrived in LA after an injury-plagued season, was never a great jump-shooter to begin with, and of course Agler hates rookies. So the deck was stacked against her. I've noticed that Bradford has decent shooting numbers, including 32-87 36.7% from 3pt. I haven't seen her play, but maybe she's now healthy and her game has developed. That's someone who might be worth a look.

As you noted, drafting Nurse or Vivians could help if they're available. I agree that Nurse is more pro ready in terms of mental maturity and knowledge of the game. In spite of all the talk about Vivians taking better shots, I don't see it. She's still firing up heavily contested jumpers, long 3-pointers early in the clock, and tough off-balance flips off drives. For whatever reason, more shots are going in. Maybe it's the new VV, maybe not. I will say if you want someone who can create her own shot, Vivians is a better option than Nurse. Kia can beat people off the dribble and take it to the hoop. She sometimes struggles finishing (see the 2016 Olympics), but she does get to the basket. However, Kia won't juke to freeze an opponent and then shoot a jumper over her. That's the classic "creating your own shot" that I think of. Vivians, on the other hand, does have that ability. Defensively, Victoria isn't the quickest player in the world. She's strong, but not quick. This isn't only my opinion -- LaChina Robinson said the same thing during a broadcast. For that reason, I see Vivians as better suited for SF whereas Nurse is a natural 2-guard.



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PostPosted: 02/17/18 4:18 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:
I agree on the need to improve size -- I was just making the point that we can't generalize about how NY lost the last three playoffs. Earlier, I had suggested letting Vaughn walk and signing Kizer. Obviously, both of those options are now gone. If Russell falls, I would take her. I've explained my logic in previous posts. She's a roll of the dice in terms of intensity, but I see talent there. Otherwise, I'm not sure about posts. You can bring in a bunch of overseas players and see if they stick. Phoenix had some success doing that last year. The fact is, the bottom four players on most rosters can easily be replaced by overseas free agents. You may prefer to keep some young players based on potential or veterans based on leadership, but in terms of immediate help on the court, these second chance types can work as well. Think Emma Cannon, Yvonne Turner, Sammi Whitcomb, Nayo Raincock-Ekunwe, Kayla Thornton, etc. Fans look down on them initially because they're viewed as rejects -- players undrafted or previously cut. But I see them as players who just took a little longer to develop. I haven't watched much overseas basketball this winter, so I don't have any firm suggestions. Can old pals Kelley Cain or Quanitra Hollingsworth be Krystal Thomas-ish in the post? I noticed Crystal Bradford is having a good season in Israel. She was always considered a good, strong athlete which earned her berths on various USA teams despite attending a mid-major college. However, she arrived in LA after an injury-plagued season, was never a great jump-shooter to begin with, and of course Agler hates rookies. So the deck was stacked against her. I've noticed that Bradford has decent shooting numbers, including 32-87 36.7% from 3pt. I haven't seen her play, but maybe she's now healthy and her game has developed. That's someone who might be worth a look.

As you noted, drafting Nurse or Vivians could help if they're available. I agree that Nurse is more pro ready in terms of mental maturity and knowledge of the game. In spite of all the talk about Vivians taking better shots, I don't see it. She's still firing up heavily contested jumpers, long 3-pointers early in the clock, and tough off-balance flips off drives. For whatever reason, more shots are going in. Maybe it's the new VV, maybe not. I will say if you want someone who can create her own shot, Vivians is a better option than Nurse. Kia can beat people off the dribble and take it to the hoop. She sometimes struggles finishing (see the 2016 Olympics), but she does get to the basket. However, Kia won't juke to freeze an opponent and then shoot a jumper over her. That's the classic "creating your own shot" that I think of. Vivians, on the other hand, does have that ability. Defensively, Victoria isn't the quickest player in the world. She's strong, but not quick. This isn't only my opinion -- LaChina Robinson said the same thing during a broadcast. For that reason, I see Vivians as better suited for SF whereas Nurse is a natural 2-guard.


Agree on all counts. I want Nurse for defensive purposes at SF. And I’d much rather have Nurse to create for others. The Liberty already have Piph and Z to create their own shots. They need another balanced offensive player with wing size more than they need Vivians right now I think.

Oh and you have a PM.



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PostPosted: 02/17/18 4:59 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I was just looking online at the New York Liberty Staff Directory. Two questions:

1. Isiah Thomas is still listed as President of the Liberty. In November, when he announced that he wanted to sell the team, Hideous Lord Jimmy publicly thanked sexual harasser Isiah in a way that suggested (at least to me) that Thomas's time with the Liberty was over. But perhaps I was completely wrong. Does anyone know if Thomas is still actively involved in running the team?

2. Others are listed as follows. Daakeia Clarke as Chief Operating Officer. Katie Smith as Head Coach. Herb Williams as Assistant Coach. Teresa Weatherspoon as Director of Player & Franchise Development. Dan Padover as Vice President, Basketball Operations. Swin Cash as Director, Franchise Development.

What's immediately ahead are various player personnel decisions, obviously including decisions about the 2018 draft. Does anyone have a sense of who will actually be making these decisions? Daakeia Clarke in consultation with Katie Smith and perhaps others?



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PostPosted: 02/17/18 5:40 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bob Lamm wrote:
I was just looking online at the New York Liberty Staff Directory. Two questions:

1. Isiah Thomas is still listed as President of the Liberty. In November, when he announced that he wanted to sell the team, Hideous Lord Jimmy publicly thanked sexual harasser Isiah in a way that suggested (at least to me) that Thomas's time with the Liberty was over. But perhaps I was completely wrong. Does anyone know if Thomas is still actively involved in running the team?

2. Others are listed as follows. Daakeia Clarke as Chief Operating Officer. Katie Smith as Head Coach. Herb Williams as Assistant Coach. Teresa Weatherspoon as Director of Player & Franchise Development. Dan Padover as Vice President, Basketball Operations. Swin Cash as Director, Franchise Development.

What's immediately ahead are various player personnel decisions, obviously including decisions about the 2018 draft. Does anyone have a sense of who will actually be making these decisions? Daakeia Clarke in consultation with Katie Smith and perhaps others?


I believe Isiah Thomas made the announcement regarding the two new execs. I could be wrong though. Also got the impression from the article I read about it that their focus was on the move to WCC.

My gut says that the people with the basketball experience are making the decisions. But who has what percentage of the say...not knowing that answer is a major source of frustration for me.



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PostPosted: 02/17/18 5:55 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

If Raincock opts to sit out this season, I wouldn't mind if the Liberty signed Jackson-Jones to fill her spot. This way we still draft a SF at #10.



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PostPosted: 02/17/18 6:49 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:
Bob Lamm wrote:
I was just looking online at the New York Liberty Staff Directory. Two questions:

1. Isiah Thomas is still listed as President of the Liberty. In November, when he announced that he wanted to sell the team, Hideous Lord Jimmy publicly thanked sexual harasser Isiah in a way that suggested (at least to me) that Thomas's time with the Liberty was over. But perhaps I was completely wrong. Does anyone know if Thomas is still actively involved in running the team?

2. Others are listed as follows. Daakeia Clarke as Chief Operating Officer. Katie Smith as Head Coach. Herb Williams as Assistant Coach. Teresa Weatherspoon as Director of Player & Franchise Development. Dan Padover as Vice President, Basketball Operations. Swin Cash as Director, Franchise Development.

What's immediately ahead are various player personnel decisions, obviously including decisions about the 2018 draft. Does anyone have a sense of who will actually be making these decisions? Daakeia Clarke in consultation with Katie Smith and perhaps others?


I believe Isiah Thomas made the announcement regarding the two new execs. I could be wrong though. Also got the impression from the article I read about it that their focus was on the move to WCC.

My gut says that the people with the basketball experience are making the decisions. But who has what percentage of the say...not knowing that answer is a major source of frustration for me.


Thanks. It would certainly be interesting if Thomas indeed made that announcement. Can anyone confirm that? Maybe his swan song?

Let's hope that the people with the basketball experience are indeed making player personnel decisions. If there's anyone who has any inside information that they're able to share, I'd certainly be interested.



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PostPosted: 02/17/18 11:37 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bob Lamm wrote:
It would certainly be interesting if Thomas indeed made that announcement. Can anyone confirm that?


Quote:
Thomas also announced that respected executive Daakeia Clarke has been named Chief Operating Officer of the team, with the experienced Dan Padover elevated to Vice President of Basketball Operations. Clarke begins her 8th season with the team, most recently as the Liberty’s VP for Team Business Development, a role she took on after four years as the Director of Marketing. Padover enters his 7th season with the franchise, previously serving as Director of Basketball Operations.

“As we prepare for the 2018 season, our goals remain the same: to compete for a WNBA championship, create memories for our incredible fans, and make a lasting impact in the community,” said Thomas. “To accomplish those goals – we need the most effective front office, with seasoned and talented executives. Keia and Dan are among the best in the business, and well deserving of these promotions. Their contributions – along with the outstanding talents of Katie Smith, who will debut as our head coach this season – have been integral to the team’s success over the past several seasons. Each of them, along with Herb Williams, Teresa Weatherspoon, Swin Cash and, of course, our amazing players, will play critical roles in guiding the franchise into the future.”


http://www.wnba.com/news/new-york-liberty-play-westchester-county-center-2018-season/



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PostPosted: 02/18/18 12:01 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Thanks, root_thing, for posting that answer to my question.

I just looked again at the Nov. 14th press release by Madison Square Garden through which Hideous Lord Jimmy announced that he wanted to sell the team. The only person he thanked by name for work on behalf of the Liberty was sexual harasser Isiah Thomas. I'd taken that to mean that perhaps Thomas was on the way out, but reading the press release again I'd say I was just being hopeful. Since he's still listed on the online staff directory as the team's president, I guess Thomas is on the scene and probably involved in player personnel decisions.



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PostPosted: 02/18/18 7:45 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Looks to me like whenever the music stops Isiah Thomas always has a chair.



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PostPosted: 02/18/18 9:45 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Randy wrote:
Looks to me like whenever the music stops Isiah Thomas always has a chair.


That's probably going to be true as long as MSG owns the team and Dolan is head of MSG. However, nothing has happened so far that would suggest Thomas was ever threatened. The team moving shouldn't make a difference. Other than that, they made some internal promotions because two people below him -- Bernert and Laimbeer -- left for better jobs. Bernert stayed within the MSG organization, and Laimbeer had previously been let go. Their departures did not reflect badly on Thomas. The "music" starts for Isiah when his team gets sold or Dolan loses control of MSG. Then, we'll see if Zeke still has a chair.



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PostPosted: 02/20/18 5:06 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Ify Ibekwe and Kelly Faris signed to training camp contracts


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PostPosted: 02/20/18 5:33 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

sigur3 wrote:
Ify Ibekwe and Kelly Faris signed to training camp contracts


A pulse! A pulse! Live bodies in the Liberty front office!

I guess Ify is a candidate for the Nayo role. Faris... indicates that Katie still wants NY to be a defensive team? Just more UConn flavor? With the team playing closer to Connecticut, maybe we will become NYConn.



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PostPosted: 02/20/18 6:03 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Definitely see Ibekwe making the team if Raincock is a no show. Or even over Zahui B. I feel Ify got screwed by the Sparks last season. Faris lives to see another training camp.



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PostPosted: 02/20/18 11:46 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I like both of these players. Some others might have just been put on notice that if they want to make the team they will have to fight for their spot. Before these signings we had an 11 player roster and a first round pick that all seemed pretty likely to make the team. I'm not sure these signings change that too much but they are both the type of players (gritty, experienced, at least over-seas, glue players) that could make it in the 11th or 12th spot, so things just got a little more competitive.

I'm just glad we did something besides just re-sign our own free agents.

With a max of 15 training camp contracts, and a couple of players probably arriving late (I don't know how it works but it seems players in Russia and Turkey, of which we have a few, always seem to arrive late to camp) we can add our draft picks and maybe a player or two more to training camp audition. Is there anyone floating around that people would like to see given a shot?

Besides the usual suspects of Alston and Hopkins.


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PostPosted: 02/21/18 5:26 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Without Raincock, we could have:

PG: Boyd/L. Allen
SG: Prince/Rodgers/Hartley
SF: Zellous/draft pick
PF: Charles/Ibekwe/Zahui B
C: Vaughn/Stokes



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PostPosted: 02/21/18 6:14 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

sigur3 wrote:
Ify Ibekwe and Kelly Faris signed to training camp contracts


LOL at Kelly Faris. At least the Sun didn’t bring her back. I guess NY is just so desperate to join in on the free agency stuff that’ll they’ll sign anyone.


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PostPosted: 02/21/18 9:29 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I liked what I saw from Ibekwe last year with LA. Thought she got screwed by getting cut in favor of Gruda & Diarra.



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PostPosted: 02/21/18 11:05 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
I liked what I saw from Ibekwe last year with LA. Thought she got screwed by getting cut in favor of Gruda & Diarra.


I've always been a fan of Ibekwe. Unfortunately another tweener but I think she's worked hard to expand her game. Hope she makes the team.



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PostPosted: 02/21/18 11:11 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
Without Raincock, we could have:


I see it more like this.

Hartley/Boyd/LAllen
Prince/Rodgers
Zellous/RAllen
Charles/Zahui/#10
Vaughn/Stokes

If you take my offer of #12 & #17 for Prince & Zahui, you could look like this.

Hartley/Boyd
Zellous/Rodgers/Atkins(#17)
RAllen/Nared(#12)
Charles/Billings(#10)/FA
Vaughn/Stokes

I don’t know how married you should be to LAllen if you already have a couple of lead guards ahead of her.

It might be time to move on from the 4-center post rotation of the Laimbeer era and get a little more mobile.

This would be a youth infusion, but you know what Clay always says, youth wins championships.

If Schimmel comes back and in shape, you could slot her as the third SG, and instead use #17 on another PF.



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PostPosted: 02/21/18 11:43 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
Definitely see Ibekwe making the team if Raincock is a no show. Or even over Zahui B. I feel Ify got screwed by the Sparks last season. Faris lives to see another training camp.


Has Nayo indicated she won’t be returning?



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PostPosted: 02/21/18 1:17 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I thought you guys would be more worried about Charles not being signed. What possible reason could there be? She’s been in town, right?



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PostPosted: 02/21/18 1:24 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:
toad455 wrote:
Definitely see Ibekwe making the team if Raincock is a no show. Or even over Zahui B. I feel Ify got screwed by the Sparks last season. Faris lives to see another training camp.


Has Nayo indicated she won’t be returning?


It's a little odd that she didn't re-sign when Hartley, the Allens & Vaughn all signed on the same day. Maybe she's sitting out to practice with the Canadian national team for the Worlds?



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PostPosted: 02/21/18 1:25 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
I thought you guys would be more worried about Charles not being signed. What possible reason could there be? She’s been in town, right?


Don't know. But she's urging fans to make the trip to Westchester this season. If she wanted to go elsewhere, I doubt she'd do that.



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PostPosted: 02/21/18 1:31 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Maybe they're gonna try to make an event of Charles signing a contract, like Phoenix did with Griner a while back. Letting the dust settle a little on the news of the Westchester move before doing that might be a good idea.

Good luck to Katie Smith with this roster if Charles decides she doesn't want to bother playing this year.



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PostPosted: 02/21/18 1:56 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
Maybe they're gonna try to make an event of Charles signing a contract, like Phoenix did with Griner a while back. Letting the dust settle a little on the news of the Westchester move before doing that might be a good idea.

Good luck to Katie Smith with this roster if Charles decides she doesn't want to bother playing this year.


Four of the seven cored players haven't signed. No biggie.


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PostPosted: 02/21/18 2:18 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:

Good luck to Katie Smith with this roster if Charles decides she doesn't want to bother playing this year.


Even though NY will probably have the worst odds, it's still a good tank year. Wink



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PostPosted: 02/21/18 2:30 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

dtsnms wrote:
Richyyy wrote:
Maybe they're gonna try to make an event of Charles signing a contract, like Phoenix did with Griner a while back. Letting the dust settle a little on the news of the Westchester move before doing that might be a good idea.

Good luck to Katie Smith with this roster if Charles decides she doesn't want to bother playing this year.


Four of the seven cored players haven't signed. No biggie.

And I'd say that with at least a couple of them that's in part because they don't want to be where they've been cored. I'm not sure that says great things for New York and Charles.



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PostPosted: 02/21/18 6:46 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Tina was quoted several times in an article discussing the move to WCC and the 2018 season. I’ll look for it. Sounds like she will be playing.



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PostPosted: 02/21/18 6:48 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Here it is:

http://www.espn.com/wnba/story/_/id/22399987/tina-charles-katie-smith-urge-fans-follow-new-york-liberty-white-plains



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PostPosted: 02/21/18 8:15 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:
Richyyy wrote:

Good luck to Katie Smith with this roster if Charles decides she doesn't want to bother playing this year.


Even though NY will probably have the worst odds, it's still a good tank year. Wink


First rule of Tank Club: Don't talk about Tank Club!
(Hopefully it's still ok for fans to discuss or else I'll be looking for a new avatar)



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PostPosted: 02/21/18 8:44 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Luuuc wrote:
root_thing wrote:
Richyyy wrote:

Good luck to Katie Smith with this roster if Charles decides she doesn't want to bother playing this year.


Even though NY will probably have the worst odds, it's still a good tank year. Wink


First rule of Tank Club: Don't talk about Tank Club!
(Hopefully it's still ok for fans to discuss or else I'll be looking for a new avatar)

I was talking about the raffle odds for a ride in a tank. Smile



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PostPosted: 02/21/18 8:47 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Podcast from "11 Warriors", an Ohio State-centric site:

https://www.elevenwarriors.com/the-eleven-dubcast/2018/02/91231/eleven-dubcast-ohio-state-basketball-legend-katie-smith-has-a-resume-a-mile-long-and-its-leading-her-to-the-hall-of



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PostPosted: 02/21/18 11:55 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Luuuc wrote:
root_thing wrote:
Richyyy wrote:

Good luck to Katie Smith with this roster if Charles decides she doesn't want to bother playing this year.


Even though NY will probably have the worst odds, it's still a good tank year. Wink


First rule of Tank Club: Don't talk about Tank Club!
(Hopefully it's still ok for fans to discuss or else I'll be looking for a new avatar)


Please let Marc Cuban Know Geez !



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PostPosted: 02/22/18 1:13 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

It looks like Nayo is skipping this season:

Quote:
When Nayo Raincock-Ekunwe got around to determining her summer basketball plans, Canada won out because the 26-year-old Toronto-born forward knows what a special feeling representing the country — and winning — can be.

The six-foot-two forward, who had an excellent rookie season with the New York Liberty last summer, has decided to take a year off from the WNBA to prepare to help Canada make a medal run at this summer’s world basketball championships.


https://www.thestar.com/sports/basketball/2018/02/06/canadas-senior-womens-basketball-team-begins-its-journey-toward-world-championships.html



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PostPosted: 02/22/18 1:27 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Sucks for the Liberty. But opens the door for Ibekwe to make the team.



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