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Evidence The WNBA Is Underpaying Players
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Richyyy



Joined: 17 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: 02/13/18 10:21 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
How about a similar percentage of basketball revenue?

Yeah, that one, the discussion that originally started this thread, is a reasonable debate. I don't pretend to have the financial knowledge to know if this particular league could give 50% of basketball related income to the players and remain viable, but at least it's a sensible discussion. It's just the occasional wailing of "the women should be paid like the men!" that annoys me. Women in the workplace doing the same exact job as men but being paid less is a real thing, and deserves to have attention paid to it and be rectified. But when you're in an entertainment industry and there just aren't that many people who find you entertaining, expecting to be paid like people in a similar - yet wildly more popular - branch is ridiculous.



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Randy



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PostPosted: 02/13/18 10:44 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

My quick calculation says that if WNBA pay was raised to 50% from 22.8% each team would have to pay about $1 million more than they currently pay. How many teams could afford that? I don't know.


Luuuc



Joined: 10 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: 02/13/18 10:46 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
pilight wrote:
How about a similar percentage of basketball revenue?

Yeah, that one, the discussion that originally started this thread, is a reasonable debate. I don't pretend to have the financial knowledge to know if this particular league could give 50% of basketball related income to the players and remain viable, but at least it's a sensible discussion. It's just the occasional wailing of "the women should be paid like the men!" that annoys me. Women in the workplace doing the same exact job as men but being paid less is a real thing, and deserves to have attention paid to it and be rectified. But when you're in an entertainment industry and there just aren't that many people who find you entertaining, expecting to be paid like people in a similar - yet wildly more popular - branch is ridiculous.

Even the percentage argument doesn't stack up at all IMO.
There's no way that the overhead costs of running the NBA are higher than the WNBA in the same ratio as the revenue difference. Does Talking Stick Resort Arena cost 50x more to hire for an NBA game than a WNBA game? No. Are there 50x more front office staff for an NBA team? No. Are travel expenses 50x more? No.

You can only pay players with the money that remains after you have received your revenue and then paid your bills. I wish our players could get an instant tenfold increase in salary but let's be realistic.



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josephkramer44



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PostPosted: 02/14/18 1:06 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I think any demand for a large raise would be met by threats of shutting the league down. As most of the teams almost certainly lose quite a bit of money where is the incentive to lose even more money?


Richyyy



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PostPosted: 02/14/18 1:17 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Although when it comes to people like Angel, there's also the question of whether she should be earning a bigger slice of the pie, even if the pie stayed exactly the same size. That's where things like unions and collective bargaining and salary caps come back to bite her. Without that stuff the market would probably look a lot more like overseas - pay the stars top dollar, and fill the rosters out with players barely being paid enough to get the bus to the arena.

Although with the rash of star players taking years off, it's going to be interesting to see if they make more significant changes in the next CBA. There always seem to be noises about it and then they come back with a deal that's 98% the same as the last one.



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ClayK



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PostPosted: 02/14/18 12:00 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

What happens to the Liberty will have a major impact on the CBA ...

If Dolan cannot sell the team, or essentially gives it away, then the players' bargaining position is extremely weak. If, however, someone gives Dolan actual cash for the Liberty, then the players can argue that franchise value appreciation should be considered during the talks.



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Randy



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PostPosted: 02/14/18 12:06 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Is MSG a public company? Would they have to reveal the sale price?


root_thing



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PostPosted: 02/14/18 12:13 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Randy wrote:
Is MSG a public company? Would they have to reveal the sale price?


Yes, MSG is a public company. I don't know if there is a legal requirement that they announce the sales price, but it would be normal practice. At the very least you should see it in the financial statements. Any sale would show a gain or loss. It also changes the assets and liabilities on your balance sheet.



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ClayK



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PostPosted: 02/14/18 12:29 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I would expect the WNBA to trumpet the sale price, as the potential increase in value of each franchise would most likely offset whatever would have to be given to the players.



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awhom111



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PostPosted: 02/14/18 9:53 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Luuuc wrote:
Richyyy wrote:
pilight wrote:
How about a similar percentage of basketball revenue?

Yeah, that one, the discussion that originally started this thread, is a reasonable debate. I don't pretend to have the financial knowledge to know if this particular league could give 50% of basketball related income to the players and remain viable, but at least it's a sensible discussion. It's just the occasional wailing of "the women should be paid like the men!" that annoys me. Women in the workplace doing the same exact job as men but being paid less is a real thing, and deserves to have attention paid to it and be rectified. But when you're in an entertainment industry and there just aren't that many people who find you entertaining, expecting to be paid like people in a similar - yet wildly more popular - branch is ridiculous.

Even the percentage argument doesn't stack up at all IMO.
There's no way that the overhead costs of running the NBA are higher than the WNBA in the same ratio as the revenue difference. Does Talking Stick Resort Arena cost 50x more to hire for an NBA game than a WNBA game? No. Are there 50x more front office staff for an NBA team? No. Are travel expenses 50x more? No.

You can only pay players with the money that remains after you have received your revenue and then paid your bills. I wish our players could get an instant tenfold increase in salary but let's be realistic.


The same issue is happening in Women's and lower division soccer here, although the USL is starting to move towards contracts that last the whole year even if it's just spreading the same amount of money over a longer period of time. The salary of NWSL players who do not get federation support is ridiculous. Unfortunately for athletes, the number of them who want to be professionals generally outstrips demand and there really is no alternative or leverage for most of them. In the United States, the existence and heavy subsidization of college sports makes it harder for the smaller professional sports because they have a hard time matching the salaries for non-playing staff that college offers.
Silky Johnson



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PostPosted: 02/15/18 12:40 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
Although when it comes to people like Angel, there's also the question of whether she should be earning a bigger slice of the pie, even if the pie stayed exactly the same size. That's where things like unions and collective bargaining and salary caps come back to bite her. Without that stuff the market would probably look a lot more like overseas - pay the stars top dollar, and fill the rosters out with players barely being paid enough to get the bus to the arena.

Although with the rash of star players taking years off, it's going to be interesting to see if they make more significant changes in the next CBA. There always seem to be noises about it and then they come back with a deal that's 98% the same as the last one.


The thing that fries me is that there's something like twenty-five percent of the league that's eligible for (and receives) the "veteran max." That means that roughly 33 players in the WNBA get paid the same amount of money as Angel McCoughtry. Since there are not, in fact, 33 players in the WNBA as good as Angel McCoughtry, I can empathize with why that would bother her.



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Richyyy



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PostPosted: 02/15/18 1:50 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Last time I added it up it was about 40% of the league on max or what I considered 'near-max'.



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Silky Johnson



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PostPosted: 02/15/18 7:41 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Forty percent... Now I'm trying to imagine what the landscape of the NBA would look like, if there were 180 players that got paid the same amount of money as Russell Westbrook?



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RavenDog



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PostPosted: 02/15/18 9:48 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
Fill 20,000-seat arenas 100 times a year while drawing millions upon millions to watch you on TV all over the world, and they'll pay you like Steph Curry. It's a fucking nonsensical argument. If you're doing community theatre in Bumblefuck, Iowa you don't get paid the same as Jennifer Lawrence for her latest blockbuster movie. You might both be actresses, but you're not creating anything like the same total earnings, because vastly fewer people care. McCoughtry and Curry might both be basketball players, but until more people give a shit about women's basketball there's no sensible reason why they should earn anything remotely similar.


Absolutely. It's a business not a government program. It's the product not the sex. Supply and demand economics.


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