RebKell's Junkie Boards
Board Junkies Forums
 
Log in Register FAQ Memberlist Search RebKell's Junkie Boards Forum Index

Angel McCoughtry sick and tired of...
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    RebKell's Junkie Boards Forum Index » WNBA
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
StevenHW



Joined: 25 Jul 2005
Posts: 10295
Location: Sacramento, California


Back to top
PostPosted: 02/14/18 3:18 pm    ::: Angel McCoughtry sick and tired of... Reply Reply with quote

... not getting paid like "the men"! Surprised

https://www.swishappeal.com/2018/2/13/17010354/angel-mccoughtry-pay-women-like-men-wnba

http://www.tmz.com/2018/02/13/angel-mccoughtry-wnba-team-usa-basketball-equal-pay/



_________________
"The more I see of the moneyed classes, the more I understand the guillotine." -- George Bernard Shaw
Randy



Joined: 08 Oct 2011
Posts: 8617



Back to top
PostPosted: 02/14/18 4:15 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I'm pretty sick and tired of not getting paid like NBA players either.


CamrnCrz1974



Joined: 18 Nov 2004
Posts: 17164
Location: Phoenix


Back to top
PostPosted: 02/14/18 4:28 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

When WNBA franchises draw the tens of thousands of fans to every game and earn the revenue that their NBA counterparts do, they will be paid accordingly.


justintyme



Joined: 08 Jul 2012
Posts: 7073
Location: Northfield, MN


Back to top
PostPosted: 02/14/18 4:54 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I am sure there are over a hundred million Americans who are sick and tired of not getting paid like Angel McCoughtry.

I wish the WNBA had the draw and earnings that would allow the women to be paid as much as the men. I wish there were more endorsement opportunities available to the women. But the reality is that the NBA and the WNBA are two different industries. Comparing how much they pay their employees is apples and pineapples.



_________________
↑↑↓↓←→←→BA
RavenDog



Joined: 19 Feb 2007
Posts: 5837



Back to top
PostPosted: 02/14/18 6:14 pm    ::: Re: Angel McCoughtry sick and tired of... Reply Reply with quote

StevenHW wrote:
... not getting paid like "the men"! Surprised

https://www.swishappeal.com/2018/2/13/17010354/angel-mccoughtry-pay-women-like-men-wnba

http://www.tmz.com/2018/02/13/angel-mccoughtry-wnba-team-usa-basketball-equal-pay/


Pretty simple solution - Make a NBA roster. They accept women, if they're good enough. Otherwise, do something for the WNBA like play every year/ game and promote the WNBA instead of constantly whining and complaining about it. If you don't like playing for the wages paid - Don't play and sell ice cream.


josephkramer44



Joined: 23 Aug 2016
Posts: 133



Back to top
PostPosted: 02/14/18 8:04 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Attitudes like that are one of the reasons most of the US is turned off by the WNBA.


justintyme



Joined: 08 Jul 2012
Posts: 7073
Location: Northfield, MN


Back to top
PostPosted: 02/15/18 1:39 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

josephkramer44 wrote:
Attitudes like that are one of the reasons most of the US is turned off by the WNBA.

I don't buy that for a second. Attitudes like that are found all over the place, including the very popular NBA.

Not to mention that in an abstract way her argument does have some merit. In a perfect world our cultural tastes would not cause so many people to find women's athletics less enjoyable than men's and thus the WNBA would pull in the numbers the NBA does, which would in turn lead to women being paid similar to the men. Thus women "should" get paid as much as the men. It's just that we don't live in that world at the moment...

Though it is a worthy goal to strive for.



_________________
↑↑↓↓←→←→BA
josephkramer44



Joined: 23 Aug 2016
Posts: 133



Back to top
PostPosted: 02/15/18 8:03 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

So the WNBA is a cause rather than a professional sports league?


Luuuc



Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 18798



Back to top
PostPosted: 02/15/18 9:13 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I don't see why any rational person would be "turned off by the WNBA" just because its elite players think they deserve more money.
It doesn't seem right to me either that she can go overseas and earn a lot more playing in front of fewer people in a weaker competition. I'd be frustrated too if I were her.



_________________
Seems rike no one takes me serirousreee
justintyme



Joined: 08 Jul 2012
Posts: 7073
Location: Northfield, MN


Back to top
PostPosted: 02/15/18 1:49 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

josephkramer44 wrote:
So the WNBA is a cause rather than a professional sports league?

And nowhere did I say that. All I was saying is that in a perfect world this wouldn't even be an issue so in a philosophical sense she is right that the WNBA players "should" be paid like the men. But we don't live in this philosophical utpoia and here in the real world there are real world reasons why the women can't be paid like the men.



_________________
↑↑↓↓←→←→BA
Richyyy



Joined: 17 Nov 2005
Posts: 20699
Location: London


Back to top
PostPosted: 02/15/18 2:04 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Although I suppose in some ways it just depends on how you group these enterprises. Plenty of studies have found the superstars like LeBron James and Stephen Curry are wildly underpaid relative to their actual value, or to what they would get if the NBA was a truly free market. Their earnings from playing are restricted by a salary cap and CBA that intentionally limits them, and evens out the cash among NBA players to a far greater extent than it would if there were no rules.

So on some level, the NBA superstars are subsidising the earnings of their NBA peers. If the NBA and WNBA were considered truly one collective enterprise (well beyond however much you feel the NBA is already propping up the WNBA), then the earnings of James, Curry et al could be spreading out to the women as well. Probably not gonna happen any time soon, though...



_________________
Independent WNBA coverage: http://www.wnbalien.com/
RavenDog



Joined: 19 Feb 2007
Posts: 5837



Back to top
PostPosted: 02/15/18 2:47 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Luuuc wrote:
I don't see why any rational person would be "turned off by the WNBA" just because its elite players think they deserve more money.
It doesn't seem right to me either that she can go overseas and earn a lot more playing in front of fewer people in a weaker competition. I'd be frustrated too if I were her.


But, what is she doing or what has she done constructively and positively to promote the WNBA, besides playing and pulling in a pay check.

Does she realize by not playing last year, her franchise lost a great deal of income and that the other teams on the Atlanta schedule did likewise because she didn't show up to play? The GM/Coach got fired which may or may not have been a part of this decision. How does her whining and complaining help grow the WNBA?

It's hard to grow fans and WNBA support when you constantly complain and debase the league when you are more part of the problem instead of the solution.

Just because some other countries have different standards and pay more money to women athletes doesn't mean other countries must do the same thing. Recognition and interest comes from players who are not only good players but have charisma, character, are interesting, enthusiastic, supportive, unselfish, team oriented and very likable, i.e, Maya Moore etc. If you took Maya away from Minnesota and replaced her with Angel the Minnesota enthusiasm would shrink and placing Maya on the Atlanta team would sell out the house.

All the women players would like more money and I'd like to see them earn it. Angel feels entitled. It takes hard work, time and the right attitudes to make the game better, more interesting and desirable. She should be part of the building block instead or the recking ball.

Life is not always fair and everything needs to be earned not given to you. We love the WNBA and want it to grow and be able to pay the players more money but it's a business not a social club. You have to make money in order to give money and right now the WNBA is hanging on by a thread. Business is not like the government.

Just her alone complaining hurts the chances of the WNBA's success. People don't want to hear players complaining and griping, they want to see a product of the floor that encourages them to watch, feel welcome, be part of it and have role models. This is what she needs to do on and off the floor. Mature, work, support, enthuse, be likable and be a role model.

Why do male models get less pay overall than female ones? Why do female fragrance models make more than male ones? Why are female ice skaters get more recognition than male ones? Why are female singers better than male ones? Why to female golfers make less than male ones? It's the product not the sex.

Women tennis players earn the same and some even more than their male counterparts because the product they put on the courts is of high quality, competitive, encouraging and fashionable.

And, it goes without saying that most men like and follow sports but most women don't. How do you get them to the games? Same criteria as stated above and relate not whine to them.


RavenDog



Joined: 19 Feb 2007
Posts: 5837



Back to top
PostPosted: 02/15/18 3:28 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Think about it...

Why do you like certain teams and not others? Is it the location, uniforms, etc.?

It's the product because it's entertaining. But also, it's the players or a player on that team that you admire and/or relate to. Without them, you probably wouldn't follow the team as closely and in some cases hardly at all. These players have personality, charisma, positiveness/negativity and talent of course. They draw you. There's something about them that intrigues you. They have something that can produce positive feelings toward the team and the WNBA. Their words and actions mean a great deal positively or negatively.

Minnesota- Maya Moore
Los Angeles- Candace Parker and Ogwumike
Los Vegas- Moriah Jefferson
Chicago- Slooty and Quigley
Seattle- Sue Bird, Loyd,
Dallas- Diggins
Atlanta- McCaughtry
Connecticut- Jones, Ogwumike
Indiana- W/O Catchings?
Washington- Delle Donne
New York- Charles
Phoenix- Taurasi, Griner

Now, just think of the effect one or more of these players or ones you might note acted and whined like McCaughtry. Do you think the WNBA would grow and flourish?


justintyme



Joined: 08 Jul 2012
Posts: 7073
Location: Northfield, MN


Back to top
PostPosted: 02/15/18 3:38 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

RavenDog wrote:

Minnesota- Maya Moore

Actually in Minnesota it is Whalen more than Moore. Whalen has a lot more visibility in the community and serving in an analyst role on some Timberwolves broadcasts.



_________________
↑↑↓↓←→←→BA
Luuuc



Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 18798



Back to top
PostPosted: 02/15/18 7:15 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

RavenDog wrote:
But, what is she doing or what has she done constructively and positively to promote the WNBA, besides playing and pulling in a pay check.

Her job is to play basketball and she does it very well. At a very high level.

RavenDog wrote:
Does she realize by not playing last year, her franchise lost a great deal of income and that the other teams on the Atlanta schedule did likewise because she didn't show up to play?

If she wasn't forced overseas to earn a decent salary then I can pretty much guarantee that she would sacrifice the foreign leagues rather than the WNBA in order to give her body the rest that every player's body should be getting.

RavenDog wrote:
Recognition and interest comes from players who are not only good players but have charisma, character, are interesting, enthusiastic, supportive, unselfish, team oriented and very likable, i.e, Maya Moore etc. If you took Maya away from Minnesota and replaced her with Angel the Minnesota enthusiasm would shrink and placing Maya on the Atlanta team would sell out the house.

I guess our mileage varies because I consider Angel a very entertaining player. Maya is an all-time great, but for charisma and all-around entertainment value I personally consider Angel to be at a similar level. I like a bit of drama with my sport. With Angel you get 2 players for the price of 1.

Some people are clearly reading more into her comments than I did. I think that's what it comes down to.
She's not claiming to have all the answers, to me she just sounds frustrated because she actually would rather be playing the WNBA every season, in front of her home fans, in her own country, but the reality of her financial situation don't make that practical. She is right to be disappointed about it. I hope all the players want their situation to be better.
It's not Angel's job to do promotion and marketing. Her league is meant to have professionals in place to do that and advance the league, and make it bigger and better for everyone in it.
It feels to me like the WNBA is going backwards if anything, and that's not her fault.



_________________
Seems rike no one takes me serirousreee
Silky Johnson



Joined: 29 Sep 2014
Posts: 895



Back to top
PostPosted: 02/15/18 7:33 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

RavenDog wrote:
Luuuc wrote:
I don't see why any rational person would be "turned off by the WNBA" just because its elite players think they deserve more money.
It doesn't seem right to me either that she can go overseas and earn a lot more playing in front of fewer people in a weaker competition. I'd be frustrated too if I were her.


But, what is she doing or what has she done constructively and positively to promote the WNBA, besides playing and pulling in a pay check.


This sounds similar to when members of oppressed minorities talk about their oppression, and people who are not affected by said oppression respond with, "Well, what are YOU doing?"

I think it's great when women in the WNBA go above and beyond to promote the league, but that's actually not their responsibility.



_________________
Professional Hater. The Baron of #HateHard
RavenDog



Joined: 19 Feb 2007
Posts: 5837



Back to top
PostPosted: 02/15/18 9:33 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Have a good day...


miller40



Joined: 29 Jun 2006
Posts: 1086



Back to top
PostPosted: 02/16/18 12:04 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

RavenDog wrote:
Think about it...

Why do you like certain teams and not others? Is it the location, uniforms, etc.?
...
Phoenix- Taurasi, Griner

Now, just think of the effect one or more of these players or ones you might note acted and whined like McCaughtry. Do you think the WNBA would grow and flourish?

IDK. A few seasons ago Taurasi sat out a year and was more than once quoted making negative remarks about WNBA pay, in one interview she made a comparison with something about no one expecting Messi to play in a local summer rec league. The WNBA is still standing. Phoenix is still standing.


Ay Mate



Joined: 12 Nov 2016
Posts: 1153



Back to top
PostPosted: 02/16/18 7:29 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

If the Players in the WNBA played around 70+ games in one season, and if they played for as many months long as the NBA season as compared to the shorter WNBA season, and if WNBA players played 48 minute long games instead of 40 minute long games, then yes, they should be paid the same that NBA players are paid. But they don’t, so they shouldn’t. They SHOULD be paid more, yes, but not what NBA players make for the simple fact they don’t play as long, or as much in a single season. That’s my 2 cents worth.


pilight



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 57524
Location: Where the action is


Back to top
PostPosted: 02/16/18 11:26 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Ay Mate wrote:
If the Players in the WNBA played around 70+ games in one season, and if they played for as many months long as the NBA season as compared to the shorter WNBA season, and if WNBA players played 48 minute long games instead of 40 minute long games, then yes, they should be paid the same that NBA players are paid. But they don’t, so they shouldn’t. They SHOULD be paid more, yes, but not what NBA players make for the simple fact they don’t play as long, or as much in a single season. That’s my 2 cents worth.


Longer doesn't mean better. That's saying Ishtar is better than Casablanca because it had a longer running time.



_________________
Don't take no rhythm,
Don't take no style
Gotta thirst for killin',
Grab your vial
Richyyy



Joined: 17 Nov 2005
Posts: 20699
Location: London


Back to top
PostPosted: 02/16/18 11:54 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
Ay Mate wrote:
If the Players in the WNBA played around 70+ games in one season, and if they played for as many months long as the NBA season as compared to the shorter WNBA season, and if WNBA players played 48 minute long games instead of 40 minute long games, then yes, they should be paid the same that NBA players are paid. But they don’t, so they shouldn’t. They SHOULD be paid more, yes, but not what NBA players make for the simple fact they don’t play as long, or as much in a single season. That’s my 2 cents worth.


Longer doesn't mean better. That's saying Ishtar is better than Casablanca because it had a longer running time.

And it's a nonsense anyway. 82 games of 48 minutes each in front of a couple of thousand people in the arenas, and a 0.nothing rating on TV would still be worth a hell of a lot less than the NBA players.



_________________
Independent WNBA coverage: http://www.wnbalien.com/
dtsnms



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 18815



Back to top
PostPosted: 02/17/18 12:09 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
Ay Mate wrote:
If the Players in the WNBA played around 70+ games in one season, and if they played for as many months long as the NBA season as compared to the shorter WNBA season, and if WNBA players played 48 minute long games instead of 40 minute long games, then yes, they should be paid the same that NBA players are paid. But they don’t, so they shouldn’t. They SHOULD be paid more, yes, but not what NBA players make for the simple fact they don’t play as long, or as much in a single season. That’s my 2 cents worth.


Longer doesn't mean better. That's saying Ishtar is better than Casablanca because it had a longer running time.


It's not? Shocked


PUmatty



Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Posts: 14426
Location: Chicago


Back to top
PostPosted: 02/17/18 2:01 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Why would these players not be frustrated?

Imagine that you were one of the best women's basketball players in the world, say, a Maya Moore or Brittney Griner or Angel McCoughtry. And you make a very good living. You are able to turn your talent, skills, natural physical gifts, and incredibly hard work into a a few million dollars. That's pretty good, right?

But then imagine you look at the contracts of your male counterparts, many of whom are making more than $20 million a year on top of endorsements. I just looked at one estimate of Lebron James net worth that was $400 million. Steph Curry signed a $200 million contract.

If I was Moore or Griner or McCountry, I would be really fucking bitter about that. How could you not be?




Last edited by PUmatty on 02/17/18 2:12 pm; edited 1 time in total
akronborn



Joined: 29 Jun 2005
Posts: 1470
Location: Right Hynaw -- Cartman


Back to top
PostPosted: 02/17/18 2:07 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote



Everything has to add up. It's not a theoretical thing where you just decide there should be equal pay. There has to be the profits to justify it.


ArtBest23



Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 12760



Back to top
PostPosted: 02/17/18 4:03 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

PUmatty wrote:
Why would these players not be frustrated?

Imagine that you were one of the best women's basketball players in the world, say, a Maya Moore or Brittney Griner or Angel McCoughtry. And you make a very good living. You are able to turn your talent, skills, natural physical gifts, and incredibly hard work into a a few million dollars. That's pretty good, right?

But then imagine you look at the contracts of your male counterparts, many of whom are making more than $20 million a year on top of endorsements. I just looked at one estimate of Lebron James net worth that was $400 million. Steph Curry signed a $200 million contract.

If I was Moore or Griner or McCountry, I would be really fucking bitter about that. How could you not be?


That's like complaining that you don't make as much money selling Fiats as your neighbor makes selling Porsches.

How about we just have one professional basketball league open equally to everyone? I wonder what Angel (or Moore or Griner) would be doing for a living because it certainly wouldn't be getting paid to play a game.

In all seriousness, where does she think the money is supposed to come from to pay for this salary she evidently thinks she deserves? Off-the-chart delusional.

Equal pay for equal work means what it says. You don't get paid the same for producing an entirely different product any more than the technician at your neighborhood computer repair shop gets paid the same as an engineer at Intel.


Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    RebKell's Junkie Boards Forum Index » WNBA All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB 2.0.17 © 2001- 2004 phpBB Group
phpBB Template by Vjacheslav Trushkin