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State of the Uniom
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Randy



Joined: 08 Oct 2011
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PostPosted: 01/31/18 9:15 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I never watch it even if there is someone I like in charge. The only thing I'm wondering is - are we great yet?


Ex-Ref



Joined: 04 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: 01/31/18 10:28 am    ::: Re: State of the Uniom Reply Reply with quote

taropatch wrote:
Ex-Ref wrote:
Who's gonna watch?

I'm watching hockey.


According to the Urban Dictionary, you are spot on.
horse hockey
Definition:
1 horse excrement
2. nonsense

The "State of the Day Care Center" highlight was Melania wearing the Hillary pantsuit.


Except I watched the Hawks and Preds. Laughing



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jammerbirdi



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: 01/31/18 1:01 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Okay, just to be perfectly honest with my opinions, as far as political theater, drama... in many ways, this was on a level that I can't really recall from many (if any) previous SOTUs. That said, Trump spoke so slowly and low key that he made it also simultaneously boring. I'm not saying he did a bad job delivering the speech, I'm actually quite blown away at how good he is at it, given the unimpressive nature of his voice and his personal inflection and tics that reminds you of an annoying friend or relative probably if you're from anywhere near that part of the country. You know the one and you're lucky if you only have one.

CBS snap poll had 80% of the country approving of the speech. New York Times columnists are at zero percent approving of the speech. Maybe minus zero percent. There's a windchill factor in effect on the NYTimes today regarding this speech. Cool

Few things shock me anymore, or is it the other way around? But I'm completely flummoxed that I'm not seeing anything anywhere on the FLOTUS's stone cold expressions early in the speech during applause line responses. Like her eyes were just oozing, "You chitting fekker. I het you." CBS's producer actually did a double-take at one point. I'm not even kidding. They do the reactions shots here and there, FLOTUS, supremes, WAIT!, BACK ON CAMERA FLOTUS! BAM! Just like that. So at least the network peeps saw that. I said to mrs jammer right at that moment that Melania just broke Twitter. But I haven't seen anything on that yet. Anyway.

And then the two basketball games. Jesus. Did anyone see Steve Balmer give Jerry Fucking West the scolding raised eyebrow thing last night after the game? Fucking mother fuck do I hate this fucking owner. There are two polar opposites in sports. People who FUCK things up. And people who make things great. YOU, Steve Ballmer, and yeah, you're new and learning, YOU are the kind of people who fuck things up. And you have mightily done that. Jerry West is here to fix that for you and you shouldn't even be able to LOOK him in the eyes let alone give him attitude. Fucking asshole. Grrr.


Genero36



Joined: 24 Apr 2005
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PostPosted: 01/31/18 1:11 pm    ::: Re: State of the Uniom Reply Reply with quote

<embed><iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/nfNrPWhRNGs" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe></embed>

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfNrPWhRNGs



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justintyme



Joined: 08 Jul 2012
Posts: 7100
Location: Northfield, MN


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PostPosted: 01/31/18 2:38 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

This will sound weird coming from me, but I didn't hate the speech. In fact, there were parts I really liked. If he actually follows through the next 12 months won't be an utter disaster and might actually accomplish something positive.

If.

That is the whole problem, what he says when following the script of a highly orchestrated and vetted speech seldom lasts the week before it implodes. Once he goes back to twitter diplomacy all the positives will likely poof.



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GlennMacGrady



Joined: 03 Jan 2005
Posts: 5136
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PostPosted: 01/31/18 3:46 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Although too long, the speech was perhaps the best written SOTU I ever recall. However, Trump is not yet good at reading off teleprompters, so his delivery was somewhat flat and emotionless.

This was the best use of visitor-props I've ever seen. Trump introduced major portions of the speech with very sympathetic visitor stories, forcing the Democrats to stand and applaud lest they appear totally embarrassing. The 12 year old boy who started a program to put 40,000 flags on veterans' graves was used to introduce veterans' health programs, and eventually to take a shot at standing for the American flag and national anthem. The four weeping parents whose children were murdered by illegal immigrant gangs were used to introduce a four-point immigration proposal, which includes full citizenship for 2 million "dreamers", three times as many as Obama's DACA ever proposed. The cop who adopted a suicidal and opioid addicted mother's child was used to introduce drug policies. The North Korean amputee who hiked thousands of miles on crutches to escape North Korea -- waving his crutches in triumph to the audience -- was used to introduce Trump's comments on that country.

Additionally, Trump advocated for a $1.5 trillion infrastructure bill, family leave, and Congressional respect for all the hard working Americans of every race, creed, religion and color, because "Americans are all Dreamers too."

Here are the results of the CBS snap poll:











For the entire poll: LINK
GlennMacGrady



Joined: 03 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: 01/31/18 5:00 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I don't think my opinions on the SOTU policy proposals are relevant, which is why I don't state them. However, I think the (unpictured) CBS snap poll responses to Trump's SOTU proposals are very relevant. Since I doubt many will read the poll, I'll excerpt four questions and responses (Favor % - Oppose %):

Proposals on immigration: 72% vs. 28%

Proposals about roads, bridges and infrastructure: 91% vs. 9%

Proposals for handling national security: 75% vs. 25%

The speech was trying to unite vs. divide the country: 81% - 19%
pilight



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: 01/31/18 5:06 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I didn't watch it because it is irrelevant. Presidents should go back to delivering the state of the union to congress in writing.



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Genero36



Joined: 24 Apr 2005
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PostPosted: 01/31/18 8:59 pm    ::: Re: State of the Uniom Reply Reply with quote

D.L. Hughley on the State of the Lie Address

<embed><iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/MR3SosiPORs" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe></embed>

https://youtu.be/MR3SosiPORs



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GlennMacGrady



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PostPosted: 01/31/18 10:26 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

46 million people watched, the most for a SOTU since 2010. 27 million were viewers 55 or older. Just 4 million aged 18 to 34 watched. The network shares were:

FOXNEWS 11,500,000
NBC 7,100,000
CBS 7,000,000
ABC 5,400,000
FOX 3,600,000
CNN 3,100,000
MSNBC 2,700,000

It was the most tweeted SOTU in history, 4.5 million. Trump’s “We proudly stand for the national anthem” line — a swipe at protesting NFL players — was the speech’s top-tweeted moment, followed by his discussion of immigration reform proposals, and mentions of the gang MS-13.

(Data from multiple sources.)
Genero36



Joined: 24 Apr 2005
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PostPosted: 02/01/18 5:07 pm    ::: Re: State of the Uniom Reply Reply with quote




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PUmatty



Joined: 10 Nov 2004
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PostPosted: 02/01/18 6:03 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GlennMacGrady wrote:
46 million people watched, the most for a SOTU since 2010. 27 million were viewers 55 or older. Just 4 million aged 18 to 34 watched.


And yet, Trump lies and says it is the most watched ever.


Howee



Joined: 27 Nov 2009
Posts: 11331
Location: Oklahoma (in my heart), whilst on my way to Oregon!


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PostPosted: 02/02/18 6:16 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

PUmatty wrote:
GlennMacGrady wrote:
46 million people watched, the most for a SOTU since 2010. 27 million were viewers 55 or older. Just 4 million aged 18 to 34 watched.


And yet, Trump lies and says it is the most watched ever.


But.....is it REALLY a lie, when you actually believe your own shit? That's the scariest part of it all: he REALLY doesn't think he's lying....be believes himself. Razz



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StevenHW



Joined: 25 Jul 2005
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Location: Sacramento, California


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PostPosted: 02/09/18 2:16 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
I didn't watch it because it is irrelevant. Presidents should go back to delivering the state of the union to congress in writing.


This editorial from the Reno News & Review agrees with you!

https://www.newsreview.com/reno/non-verbal-state-of/content?oid=25772714



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GlennMacGrady



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PostPosted: 02/11/18 2:04 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Howee wrote:
PUmatty wrote:
GlennMacGrady wrote:
46 million people watched, the most for a SOTU since 2010. 27 million were viewers 55 or older. Just 4 million aged 18 to 34 watched.


And yet, Trump lies and says it is the most watched ever.


But.....is it REALLY a lie, when you actually believe your own shit? That's the scariest part of it all: he REALLY doesn't think he's lying....be believes himself. Razz


No, things like this aren't lies; they are impulsive statements made from misinformation given to him by others, a misunderstanding of the facts, or ignorance of the facts.

A lie is a deliberate and intentional misstatement of fact when you know the true facts. It would be idiotic for someone to deliberately lie about a fact that can be checked in 30 seconds. I doubt Trump does internet or Library of Congress research. He simply repeats things that are told to him by others or that he hears on TV. Some of his staff, who themselves are probably not crack researchers, probably sometimes misinform him. Other times, he probably just doesn't hear, focus on, or remember qualifiers such as "the most watched since 2010."

Another thing is that Trump is not precise in his use of language in many of his tweets. (Is anyone?) He could have been told that his SOTU reached the largest audience ever when you count TV, videostreams and social media, but he conflates and condenses that concept into the phrase "highest number". I'm not saying that's what he did in this case, but he has engaged in much word imprecision in the Twitter past.

I really don't understand people who focus on such trivial misstatements by Trump when politicians all over the country deliberately lie about important policy matters every day. Politicians deliberately lie for partisan power advantage about everything. For example, they intentionally lie about the facts of the tax plan, immigration and the Nunes memo.
PUmatty



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PostPosted: 02/11/18 7:09 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GlennMacGrady wrote:
Howee wrote:
PUmatty wrote:
GlennMacGrady wrote:
46 million people watched, the most for a SOTU since 2010. 27 million were viewers 55 or older. Just 4 million aged 18 to 34 watched.


And yet, Trump lies and says it is the most watched ever.


But.....is it REALLY a lie, when you actually believe your own shit? That's the scariest part of it all: he REALLY doesn't think he's lying....be believes himself. Razz


No, things like this aren't lies; they are impulsive statements made from misinformation given to him by others, a misunderstanding of the facts, or ignorance of the facts.

A lie is a deliberate and intentional misstatement of fact when you know the true facts. It would be idiotic for someone to deliberately lie about a fact that can be checked in 30 seconds. I doubt Trump does internet or Library of Congress research. He simply repeats things that are told to him by others or that he hears on TV. Some of his staff, who themselves are probably not crack researchers, probably sometimes misinform him. Other times, he probably just doesn't hear, focus on, or remember qualifiers such as "the most watched since 2010."

Another thing is that Trump is not precise in his use of language in many of his tweets. (Is anyone?) He could have been told that his SOTU reached the largest audience ever when you count TV, videostreams and social media, but he conflates and condenses that concept into the phrase "highest number". I'm not saying that's what he did in this case, but he has engaged in much word imprecision in the Twitter past.

I really don't understand people who focus on such trivial misstatements by Trump when politicians all over the country deliberately lie about important policy matters every day. Politicians deliberately lie for partisan power advantage about everything. For example, they intentionally lie about the facts of the tax plan, immigration and the Nunes memo.


Right. Trump - and the rest of his administration - lies about all of those things too.

I suppose if you want to be pedantic and argue that Trump isn't lying but is too stupid to understand numbers you can. It's a surprising position to watch a GOP Trump apologist go with, but I suppose I can appreciate it.

Regardless, it is clear that no one should trust a thing that comes out of this person's mouth. It's refreshing that you agree and are arguing the same thing, just from a different angle.


Howee



Joined: 27 Nov 2009
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PostPosted: 02/12/18 1:39 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

[quote="PUmatty"]
GlennMacGrady wrote:
Howee wrote:
PUmatty wrote:
GlennMacGrady wrote:
46 million people watched, the most for a SOTU since 2010. 27 million were viewers 55 or older. Just 4 million aged 18 to 34 watched.


And yet, Trump lies and says it is the most watched ever.


But.....is it REALLY a lie, when you actually believe your own shit? That's the scariest part of it all: he REALLY doesn't think he's lying....be believes himself. Razz


No, things like this aren't lies


The whole point is far more simple than the rest of your post implies: my empirical point is---Trump doesn't view it as a lie, simply because he chooses to believe it, whether or not he's been informed/misinformed....he takes any factoid and bends it to his will.

Let's give "Lies" congruent value to "Falshoods"....we already KNOW he lied vociferously re: pussy-grabbing. He's established himself as a Liar when backed into a corner, so lying (perpetrating falsehoods) is easy-peasy for him. #noconscience



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