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tfan
Joined: 31 May 2010 Posts: 9625
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tfan
Joined: 31 May 2010 Posts: 9625
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toad455
Joined: 16 Nov 2005 Posts: 22474 Location: NJ
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Posted: 02/09/18 5:25 am ::: |
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Did some research and the Westchester Knicks draw roughly 1,900 a game. I hope they Liberty get more. We shall see.
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Happycappie25
Joined: 07 Feb 2006 Posts: 4174 Location: QUEENS!!!!
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Posted: 02/09/18 8:01 am ::: |
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As i told queenie...basically walsh gym only larger and seats on the stage...its not modern...dont see a jumbotron...or center hung...doesnt mean the dubknicks didnt add one...prewar building doesnt give me incentive to spend 40 a seat or shlep out at great expense sigh but i love the girls too much to change colours....gonna be interesting
_________________ "Leave it to the NCAA women's basketball committee to turn a glass slipper into glass ceiling" Graham Hays
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006 Posts: 63779
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GlennMacGrady
Joined: 03 Jan 2005 Posts: 8227 Location: Heisenberg
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Posted: 02/09/18 11:54 am ::: |
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I've been to the Westchester County Center several times. It gets filled for regional high school games and playoffs, or at least it did when Saniya Chong was playing for Ossining. But a game between two popular high school teams may have more collective fans than a WNBA team.
I don't think the several NYL subway fans on this forum are representative of the commuting that is done by basketball fans at all levels all over America. Fans drive long distances to watch teams. Storrs is 170 miles round trip for me and Hartford is 110 miles. I'm not a fan of any high school, but I'll willingly drive 100-250 miles round trip to see good games or tournaments in NYC, Massachusetts, New Jersey or Albany. When I lived in Woodstock, NY, with young sons, we'd drive 350-400 miles round trip to follow Syracuse and UConn home games. Marist and West Point were easy commutes of about 65 and 100 miles round trip. |
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Bob Lamm
Joined: 11 Apr 2010 Posts: 5065 Location: New York City
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Posted: 02/09/18 12:07 pm ::: |
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GlennMacGrady wrote: |
I've been to the Westchester County Center several times. It gets filled for regional high school games and playoffs, or at least it did when Saniya Chong was playing for Ossining. But a game between two popular high school teams may have more collective fans than a WNBA team.
I don't think the several NYL subway fans on this forum are representative of the commuting that is done by basketball fans at all levels all over America. Fans drive long distances to watch teams. Storrs is 170 miles round trip for me and Hartford is 110 miles. I'm not a fan of any high school, but I'll willingly drive 100-250 miles round trip to see good games or tournaments in NYC, Massachusetts, New Jersey or Albany. When I lived in Woodstock, NY, with young sons, we'd drive 350-400 miles round trip to follow Syracuse and UConn home games. Marist and West Point were easy commutes of about 65 and 100 miles round trip. |
Many Liberty fans don't own cars, so while all you say is surely valid it's a bit irrelevant for most of us. And the cost of renting a car to drive from wherever any of us live to White Plains would be prohibitive.
_________________ Remember Roe v. Wade. Work for and support legal abortion all over the world and full reproductive rights for everyone.
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Silky Johnson
Joined: 29 Sep 2014 Posts: 3318
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Posted: 02/09/18 12:09 pm ::: |
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GlennMacGrady wrote: |
I've been to the Westchester County Center several times. It gets filled for regional high school games and playoffs, or at least it did when Saniya Chong was playing for Ossining. But a game between two popular high school teams may have more collective fans than a WNBA team.
I don't think the several NYL subway fans on this forum are representative of the commuting that is done by basketball fans at all levels all over America. Fans drive long distances to watch teams. Storrs is 170 miles round trip for me and Hartford is 110 miles. I'm not a fan of any high school, but I'll willingly drive 100-250 miles round trip to see good games or tournaments in NYC, Massachusetts, New Jersey or Albany. When I lived in Woodstock, NY, with young sons, we'd drive 350-400 miles round trip to follow Syracuse and UConn home games. Marist and West Point were easy commutes of about 65 and 100 miles round trip. |
With that having been said, "Liberty Subway Fans" may not be representative of basketball fans around the US, and their collective willingness to commute, but the only question of consequence here is whether they are representative of prospective Liberty fans? Because if they are, then how willing fans of other WNBA teams, or whatever punk amateur team's fans are to commute doesn't matter so much.
_________________ Professional Hater. The Baron of #HateHard
My team no longer exists, so I'll have to settle for hating yours.
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Bob Lamm
Joined: 11 Apr 2010 Posts: 5065 Location: New York City
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Posted: 02/09/18 12:14 pm ::: |
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Silky Johnson wrote: |
GlennMacGrady wrote: |
I've been to the Westchester County Center several times. It gets filled for regional high school games and playoffs, or at least it did when Saniya Chong was playing for Ossining. But a game between two popular high school teams may have more collective fans than a WNBA team.
I don't think the several NYL subway fans on this forum are representative of the commuting that is done by basketball fans at all levels all over America. Fans drive long distances to watch teams. Storrs is 170 miles round trip for me and Hartford is 110 miles. I'm not a fan of any high school, but I'll willingly drive 100-250 miles round trip to see good games or tournaments in NYC, Massachusetts, New Jersey or Albany. When I lived in Woodstock, NY, with young sons, we'd drive 350-400 miles round trip to follow Syracuse and UConn home games. Marist and West Point were easy commutes of about 65 and 100 miles round trip. |
With that having been said, "Liberty Subway Fans" may not be representative of basketball fans around the US, and their collective willingness to commute, but the only question of consequence here is whether they are representative of prospective Liberty fans? Because if they are, then how willing fans of other WNBA teams, or whatever punk amateur team's fans are to commute doesn't matter so much. |
Exactly right. We can't know if Liberty fans who post here are representative of all Liberty fans in the NYC metropolitan area. But I see no reason to believe that we are NOT representative of others when we discuss possible travel to the Westchester County Center. Especially since those of us who've identified our locations (mine is the Upper West Side) seem to live in various boroughs of NYC, Long Island, and New Jersey.
_________________ Remember Roe v. Wade. Work for and support legal abortion all over the world and full reproductive rights for everyone.
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GlennMacGrady
Joined: 03 Jan 2005 Posts: 8227 Location: Heisenberg
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Posted: 02/09/18 1:18 pm ::: |
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Bob Lamm wrote: |
Silky Johnson wrote: |
GlennMacGrady wrote: |
I've been to the Westchester County Center several times. It gets filled for regional high school games and playoffs, or at least it did when Saniya Chong was playing for Ossining. But a game between two popular high school teams may have more collective fans than a WNBA team.
I don't think the several NYL subway fans on this forum are representative of the commuting that is done by basketball fans at all levels all over America. Fans drive long distances to watch teams. Storrs is 170 miles round trip for me and Hartford is 110 miles. I'm not a fan of any high school, but I'll willingly drive 100-250 miles round trip to see good games or tournaments in NYC, Massachusetts, New Jersey or Albany. When I lived in Woodstock, NY, with young sons, we'd drive 350-400 miles round trip to follow Syracuse and UConn home games. Marist and West Point were easy commutes of about 65 and 100 miles round trip. |
With that having been said, "Liberty Subway Fans" may not be representative of basketball fans around the US, and their collective willingness to commute, but the only question of consequence here is whether they are representative of prospective Liberty fans? Because if they are, then how willing fans of other WNBA teams, or whatever punk amateur team's fans are to commute doesn't matter so much. |
Exactly right. We can't know if Liberty fans who post here are representative of all Liberty fans in the NYC metropolitan area. But I see no reason to believe that we are NOT representative of others when we discuss possible travel to the Westchester County Center. Especially since those of us who've identified our locations (mine is the Upper West Side) seem to live in various boroughs of NYC, Long Island, and New Jersey. |
That's partially right.
I say NYL subway fans are not representative because there are only small handful of cities in the U.S. that even have subways, much less the extensive system of NYC. Fans in other big cities have to drive or take buses to inner city arenas. Many, if not most, "city" venues for pro basketball and football are actually in the suburbs of the city. Driving is necessary.
I say partially right because, as an owner, one has to consider not only the current Liberty fan base, which is certainly made up in some significant part by subway straphangers, but also potential new fans who would come from the commuting suburbs. There surely is a contingent of those people (like me) who are willing to drive many places to see a basketball game, but not into mid-Manhattan, where the parking fee alone could feed a child in Africa for a year. Plenty of NYC area fans support the football teams, and supported the Nets for years, in the Meadowland venues in a New Jersey swamp.
So the calculus is this: How many car-less straphanger fans does a NYC team lose by going to an arena in the suburbs vs. the number of willing car-commuter fans gained by going into a suburban arena? I don't know the answer.
That said, as I discussed in a thread last month, I don't consider the 1930's Westchester County Center to be an attractive "pro" arena regardless of whether it can draw 5000 or not. It's not even an attractive D2 college arena.
When the weather gets warmer, I'll drive down to the WCC and video the entire tunnel walk. Not a problem, especially if I buy the used Mercedes I dream about, given that the magic bus is 21 years old. All I ask is in return is that someone hire Seal Team 6 for my protection. My street fighting and bar brawling skills are so last millennium. |
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root_thing
Joined: 28 Apr 2007 Posts: 7365 Location: Underground
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Posted: 02/09/18 2:01 pm ::: |
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One of the main reasons why New Yorkers put up with tiny, expensive apartments in this congested city is precisely because we want to live close to activity and have lots of options of all kinds nearby. I don't pretend to be typical of people around the country. I know all about the hardy folks who drive hours from Nebraska to Denver to watch Colorado Rockies games. Good for them. I'm sure they're happy with their choice. I also have friends who love to drive and will hop in their car to cruise around just for the heck of it. Good for them too. I'm not one of those guys. And I think it's kind of arrogant for people to decide that their choices should be the standard of behavior for someone else. I know men who commute 5-6 hours a day roundtrip for work. They basically see their wife and kids on weekends. I'm not going to judge them, but I'd venture to guess that most people wouldn't want to do that.
So yeah, maybe we look spoiled to some of you. I'm probably the most extreme case of all. My "travel" is a 15-minute walk to MSG. But you know what? I feel no guilt whatsoever. I've paid in many ways for the privilege, including moving to my block 40 years ago when burglaries were common.
As for MSG, obviously they're free to do whatever they want with the team. They own it, and they're under no obligation to lose money on our behalf. But it doesn't mean we have to like what's happening. Fans are simply expressing displeasure from their point of view. We're blowing off steam. It's not like we're plotting to assassinate James Dolan. I would think ownership should care somewhat about what fans think if they want the team to have a future... or at least the appearance of a future if you're trying to sell the team.
_________________ You can always do something else.
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pasteurize
Joined: 07 Oct 2008 Posts: 623 Location: NY
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Posted: 02/09/18 2:02 pm ::: |
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This is all looking pretty bleak, and the more I learn, the worse it gets. I wanted to estimate how long it'd take me to get to/from games at the Westchester Community Center. The results are rough.
Most of our week night games at "home" start at 7 PM. I work until 6 in midtown, but I'm close enough to the metro north train that I should be able to get to a 7 PM game only 5 minutes late if I rush.
Coming home is where it really hurts. According to the schedule on the mta website, there are trains that leave White Plains, heading towards Manhattan at 9:01 PM and 10:05 PM on weekdays. I won't be making the 9:01 PM train unless I want to miss the end of the game, so that would leave me waiting around a good amount of time for the 10:05 PM train. At that point, based on Google maps, I estimate that I'll be home by 11:20 PM. (I live in Queens, but I'm relatively close to Manhattan - so it could be worse for others.) I need to wake up for work on weekdays at 7 AM.
I just don't see this working out so well for me.
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dab44lb
Joined: 16 May 2007 Posts: 390 Location: The Bronx
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Posted: 02/09/18 3:19 pm ::: |
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Liberty fans are being asked to spend more in car fare to go to an arena that is sub standard at best and a dump compared to what they had. Some are being asked to add over an hour+ to their trip. And if you work in the city, you are being asked to try to make it by a 7:00 tip time. I know to some of you that lost teams this may sound like whining. And to some of you that drive, you don't see the problem. However these are reasonable gripes to consider. Especially when your team is under new management and the future existence of the franchise is still in question. Also keep in mind, this team has not added any new players and is transitioning to a new coach. Meanwhile teams that were slightly worse than them previously are improving. And teams that were ahead of us have improved.
_________________ Name, Number, Position.
And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat upon him was Death, and Hell followed with him
Last edited by dab44lb on 02/09/18 8:20 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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miller40
Joined: 29 Jun 2006 Posts: 1334
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Posted: 02/09/18 3:40 pm ::: |
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Speaking as an out of towner who goes to NYC for vacation: I don't plan my vacations around Liberty games, but once I have plans set I have always in the past walked up and purchased tickets if they are playing. I won't do that now. I don't know how many of "us" there are in the bigger ticket purchasing picture, but I do know last time I did this I sat next to some guys from the UK who had no idea what the WNBA was but wanted to see an event at MSG.
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dab44lb
Joined: 16 May 2007 Posts: 390 Location: The Bronx
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Posted: 02/09/18 3:55 pm ::: |
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miller40 wrote: |
Speaking as an out of towner who goes to NYC for vacation: I don't plan my vacations around Liberty games, but once I have plans set I have always in the past walked up and purchased tickets if they are playing. I won't do that now. I don't know how many of "us" there are in the bigger ticket purchasing picture, but I do know last time I did this I sat next to some guys from the UK who had no idea what the WNBA was but wanted to see an event at MSG. |
Was there also two guys nearby cheering really loud and yelling at the refs?
_________________ Name, Number, Position.
And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat upon him was Death, and Hell followed with him
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miller40
Joined: 29 Jun 2006 Posts: 1334
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GlennMacGrady
Joined: 03 Jan 2005 Posts: 8227 Location: Heisenberg
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Posted: 02/09/18 5:10 pm ::: |
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pasteurize wrote: |
Coming home is where it really hurts. According to the schedule on the mta website, there are trains that leave White Plains, heading towards Manhattan at 9:01 PM and 10:05 PM on weekdays. I won't be making the 9:01 PM train unless I want to miss the end of the game, so that would leave me waiting around a good amount of time for the 10:05 PM train.
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Bus?
WCC website says:
"The following Bee Line Buses make stops at the White Plains Transportation Center: 1W, 3, 5, 6, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 17, 20, 21, 27, 40, 41, 60, 63, 77, 92, TZX, IBus, TLC, A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H"
There are Bee Line bus routes between the White Plains TransCenter and the Bronx and Manhattan. Maybe one would work.
This map shows the location of the the TransCenter (1), train station (2) and Westchester County Center (6).
Last edited by GlennMacGrady on 02/09/18 11:58 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Bob Lamm
Joined: 11 Apr 2010 Posts: 5065 Location: New York City
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Posted: 02/09/18 5:12 pm ::: |
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GlennMacGrady wrote: |
pasteurize wrote: |
Coming home is where it really hurts. According to the schedule on the mta website, there are trains that leave White Plains, heading towards Manhattan at 9:01 PM and 10:05 PM on weekdays. I won't be making the 9:01 PM train unless I want to miss the end of the game, so that would leave me waiting around a good amount of time for the 10:05 PM train.
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Bus?
WCC website says:
"The following Bee Line Buses make stops at the White Plains Transportation Center: 1W, 3, 5, 6, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 17, 20, 21, 27, 40, 41, 60, 63, 77, 92, TZX, IBus, TLC, A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H"
There are Bee Line bus routes between the White Plains TransCenter and the Bronx and Manhattan. Maybe one would work.
This map shows the location of the the TransCenter (1), train station (2) and Westchester County Center (3). |
Going by bus during rush hour for a 7:00 p.m. game? You must be kidding.
_________________ Remember Roe v. Wade. Work for and support legal abortion all over the world and full reproductive rights for everyone.
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GlennMacGrady
Joined: 03 Jan 2005 Posts: 8227 Location: Heisenberg
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Posted: 02/09/18 5:17 pm ::: |
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Bob Lamm wrote: |
GlennMacGrady wrote: |
pasteurize wrote: |
Coming home is where it really hurts. According to the schedule on the mta website, there are trains that leave White Plains, heading towards Manhattan at 9:01 PM and 10:05 PM on weekdays. I won't be making the 9:01 PM train unless I want to miss the end of the game, so that would leave me waiting around a good amount of time for the 10:05 PM train.
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Bus?
WCC website says:
"The following Bee Line Buses make stops at the White Plains Transportation Center: 1W, 3, 5, 6, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 17, 20, 21, 27, 40, 41, 60, 63, 77, 92, TZX, IBus, TLC, A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H"
There are Bee Line bus routes between the White Plains TransCenter and the Bronx and Manhattan. Maybe one would work.
This map shows the location of the the TransCenter (1), train station (2) and Westchester County Center (3). |
Going by bus during rush hour for a 7:00 p.m. game? You must be kidding. |
I'm spending time trying to be helpful, not kidding. My response was in quoted reply to the lack of trains coming home after the game. |
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pasteurize
Joined: 07 Oct 2008 Posts: 623 Location: NY
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Posted: 02/09/18 5:50 pm ::: |
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GlennMacGrady wrote: |
pasteurize wrote: |
Coming home is where it really hurts. According to the schedule on the mta website, there are trains that leave White Plains, heading towards Manhattan at 9:01 PM and 10:05 PM on weekdays. I won't be making the 9:01 PM train unless I want to miss the end of the game, so that would leave me waiting around a good amount of time for the 10:05 PM train.
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Bus?
WCC website says:
"The following Bee Line Buses make stops at the White Plains Transportation Center: 1W, 3, 5, 6, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 17, 20, 21, 27, 40, 41, 60, 63, 77, 92, TZX, IBus, TLC, A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H"
There are Bee Line bus routes between the White Plains TransCenter and the Bronx and Manhattan. Maybe one would work.
This map shows the location of the the TransCenter (1), train station (2) and Westchester County Center (3). |
Thanks for that. I can't be positive, but I don't believe the bus will be any better. According to Google maps, the bus route will take 2+ hours just to get to midtown Manhattan. And it'd require taking two separate buses. I think there are more options during rush hour, but heading towards Manhattan at around 9 or 10 PM is difficult. Anyone, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
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Luuuc #NATC
Joined: 10 Feb 2005 Posts: 21929
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Posted: 02/09/18 7:15 pm ::: |
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pasteurize wrote: |
Coming home is where it really hurts. According to the schedule on the mta website, there are trains that leave White Plains, heading towards Manhattan at 9:01 PM and 10:05 PM on weekdays. I won't be making the 9:01 PM train unless I want to miss the end of the game, so that would leave me waiting around a good amount of time for the 10:05 PM train. At that point, based on Google maps, I estimate that I'll be home by 11:20 PM. (I live in Queens, but I'm relatively close to Manhattan - so it could be worse for others.) I need to wake up for work on weekdays at 7 AM.
I just don't see this working out so well for me. |
Any chance they would schedule an extra post-game train specifically for game nights? Seems like something the Liberty should be arranging with the train company, considering how many people could potentially be using it. (or at least trial it for a few games to see if it is well used)
_________________ Thanks for calling. I wait all night for calls like these.
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GlennMacGrady
Joined: 03 Jan 2005 Posts: 8227 Location: Heisenberg
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Posted: 02/09/18 8:24 pm ::: |
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pasteurize wrote: |
GlennMacGrady wrote: |
pasteurize wrote: |
Coming home is where it really hurts. According to the schedule on the mta website, there are trains that leave White Plains, heading towards Manhattan at 9:01 PM and 10:05 PM on weekdays. I won't be making the 9:01 PM train unless I want to miss the end of the game, so that would leave me waiting around a good amount of time for the 10:05 PM train.
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Bus?
WCC website says:
"The following Bee Line Buses make stops at the White Plains Transportation Center: 1W, 3, 5, 6, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 17, 20, 21, 27, 40, 41, 60, 63, 77, 92, TZX, IBus, TLC, A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H"
There are Bee Line bus routes between the White Plains TransCenter and the Bronx and Manhattan. Maybe one would work.
This map shows the location of the the TransCenter (1), train station (2) and Westchester County Center (3). |
Thanks for that. I can't be positive, but I don't believe the bus will be any better. According to Google maps, the bus route will take 2+ hours just to get to midtown Manhattan. And it'd require taking two separate buses. I think there are more options during rush hour, but heading towards Manhattan at around 9 or 10 PM is difficult. Anyone, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. |
This situation undoubtedly presents an unpalatable commute for NYC fans no matter whether it's train, car or bus. I was just trying to link to bus possibilities even if none may end up being convenient. I haven't studied the bus schedules and have no reason to, but I thought perhaps the Bronx bus route might stop near a subway station in the Bronx. |
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stever
Joined: 16 Nov 2004 Posts: 6918 Location: https://womensbasketballdaily.net
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Posted: 02/09/18 8:49 pm ::: |
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I can put one of you guys into a nice '84 LeBaron...used to belong to Jon Voight!
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Queenie
Joined: 18 Nov 2004 Posts: 18031 Location: Queens
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Posted: 02/09/18 9:18 pm ::: |
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GlennMacGrady wrote: |
pasteurize wrote: |
Coming home is where it really hurts. According to the schedule on the mta website, there are trains that leave White Plains, heading towards Manhattan at 9:01 PM and 10:05 PM on weekdays. I won't be making the 9:01 PM train unless I want to miss the end of the game, so that would leave me waiting around a good amount of time for the 10:05 PM train.
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Bus?
WCC website says:
"The following Bee Line Buses make stops at the White Plains Transportation Center: 1W, 3, 5, 6, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 17, 20, 21, 27, 40, 41, 60, 63, 77, 92, TZX, IBus, TLC, A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H"
There are Bee Line bus routes between the White Plains TransCenter and the Bronx and Manhattan. Maybe one would work.
This map shows the location of the the TransCenter (1), train station (2) and Westchester County Center (3). |
I've taken the 20. If I recall my journey correctly, it was about an hour from White Plains to Woodlawn, where I picked up the 4. My Google Map-fu indicates that attempting to use the buses versus using Metro-North adds an hour to the total journey. And I was leaving White Plains around... 6:30, I think? It's been a while. If it gets too late, the bus frequency is down to once every 30 minutes or so.
(I did, in fact, once embark on an expedition to see how far north I could go via MetroCard. I did not realize at the time it was advance scouting.)
_________________ Ardent believer in the separation of church and stadium.
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Randy
Joined: 08 Oct 2011 Posts: 10911
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Posted: 02/09/18 9:54 pm ::: |
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Sorry if this is a dumb question - Uber? Lyft?
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