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Lib Fan
Joined: 10 May 2005
Posts: 4593
Location: New York City
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 Posted: 02/08/18 5:16 pm ::: |
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I never thought I would say this, but serious thinking of not being a STH !
That is sad after going to NJ for 3 years
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tfan
Joined: 31 May 2010
Posts: 9607
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| Posted: 02/08/18 6:05 pm ::: |
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| I don't know how many tourists bought Liberty tickets, or even how many New York metro folks bought tickets (all they give us is "announced attendance"), but it appears it wasn't enough to justify the use of the building - given competing uses like concerts. Would think the Liberty are well aware that they aren't going to get as many people at the Westchester County Center as at MSG.
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root_thing
Joined: 28 Apr 2007
Posts: 7365
Location: Underground
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| Posted: 02/08/18 6:45 pm ::: |
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| We have to hope MSG sells the team soon and that the new owner quickly announces this is a short-term transitional arrangement. Even going back to Prudential Center is better than this. At least that signals the team is being run as a major league operation. Yes, you'll lose a large contingent of fans no matter where you move, so maybe 5,000 seats are enough in the short run. But fans need to see that new ownership is optimistic. You have to have a vision of the future and how you're going to replace those lost fans someday. I know Newark didn't work the first time, but maybe if you make a commitment to the venue, then the locals will embrace the Liberty as their team. At least there's an air of hope if you play in a facility that allows your fanbase to grow. Moving to Westchester County Center reeks of capitulation. While the official attendance figure of just under 10,000 was inflated, my guess is that actual numbers were around 8,000. Making a 5,000 seat minor league arena your home signals that management is content to lop off a big chunk of their fanbase with no intention of ever getting them back. If you don't care about the team's future, why should we? More than one year in Westchester probably means an accelerated demise.
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Luuuc
#NATC
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
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| Posted: 02/08/18 7:22 pm ::: |
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| Just been looking around the area on Google street view and it barely even qualifies to be called the suburbs out there. Not sure I've ever seen a higher concentration of golf courses and country clubs in one area before (not that I've ever been remotely interested in looking for that) ... but my point being there looks like very little local population to be the supporter base up there. Pretty grim.
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toad455
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
Posts: 22474
Location: NJ
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| Posted: 02/08/18 7:27 pm ::: |
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| Unless MSG arranges some kind of shuttle for Penn Station, I doubt they get 4k at Westchester. The good news is I can probably make the two camp games at MSG. Might be my only two games I'll attend this season.
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Lib Fan
Joined: 10 May 2005
Posts: 4593
Location: New York City
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| Posted: 02/08/18 7:56 pm ::: |
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| toad455 wrote: |
| Unless MSG arranges some kind of shuttle for Penn Station, I doubt they get 4k at Westchester. The good news is I can probably make the two camp games at MSG. Might be my only two games I'll attend this season. |
Dont hold your breath...Im sure MSG will do nothing about a shuttle.
To have only the 2 camp and school games at MSG is slap in the face
to all Liberty Fans
There should have been more games at MSG
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Luuuc
#NATC
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 21927
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| Posted: 02/08/18 8:06 pm ::: |
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| Lib Fan wrote: |
| toad455 wrote: |
| Unless MSG arranges some kind of shuttle for Penn Station, I doubt they get 4k at Westchester. The good news is I can probably make the two camp games at MSG. Might be my only two games I'll attend this season. |
Dont hold your breath...Im sure MSG will do nothing about a shuttle.
To have only the 2 camp and school games at MSG is slap in the face
to all Liberty Fans
There should have been more games at MSG |
Seems strange not to have scheduled more there even from a pure business point of view. There is obviously plenty of Liberty support in NYC, and a lot of hassle getting out to the new Vermont stadium, so surely that would create extra demand for the MSG games had there been say 6 of them distributed through the season (and at proper times - not weekday afternoons)
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NYL_WNBA_FAN
Joined: 28 May 2007
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| Posted: 02/08/18 8:48 pm ::: |
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| root_thing wrote: |
| We have to hope MSG sells the team soon and that the new owner quickly announces this is a short-term transitional arrangement. Even going back to Prudential Center is better than this. At least that signals the team is being run as a major league operation. Yes, you'll lose a large contingent of fans no matter where you move, so maybe 5,000 seats are enough in the short run. But fans need to see that new ownership is optimistic. You have to have a vision of the future and how you're going to replace those lost fans someday. I know Newark didn't work the first time, but maybe if you make a commitment to the venue, then the locals will embrace the Liberty as their team. At least there's an air of hope if you play in a facility that allows your fanbase to grow. Moving to Westchester County Center reeks of capitulation. While the official attendance figure of just under 10,000 was inflated, my guess is that actual numbers were around 8,000. Making a 5,000 seat minor league arena your home signals that management is content to lop off a big chunk of their fanbase with no intention of ever getting them back. If you don't care about the team's future, why should we? More than one year in Westchester probably means an accelerated demise. |
Exactly. This was exactly my point earlier in this thread. I also don't see WCC as a viable permanent solution.
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Queenie
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
Posts: 18029
Location: Queens
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| Posted: 02/08/18 8:52 pm ::: |
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| root_thing wrote: |
| We have to hope MSG sells the team soon and that the new owner quickly announces this is a short-term transitional arrangement. Even going back to Prudential Center is better than this. At least that signals the team is being run as a major league operation. Yes, you'll lose a large contingent of fans no matter where you move, so maybe 5,000 seats are enough in the short run. But fans need to see that new ownership is optimistic. You have to have a vision of the future and how you're going to replace those lost fans someday. I know Newark didn't work the first time, but maybe if you make a commitment to the venue, then the locals will embrace the Liberty as their team. At least there's an air of hope if you play in a facility that allows your fanbase to grow. Moving to Westchester County Center reeks of capitulation. While the official attendance figure of just under 10,000 was inflated, my guess is that actual numbers were around 8,000. Making a 5,000 seat minor league arena your home signals that management is content to lop off a big chunk of their fanbase with no intention of ever getting them back. If you don't care about the team's future, why should we? More than one year in Westchester probably means an accelerated demise. |
PREACH.
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NYL_WNBA_FAN
Joined: 28 May 2007
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| Posted: 02/08/18 8:54 pm ::: |
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I'm skeptical of anything Megdal posts, so while I'd take the Charles outlook with a grain of salt, you have to admit it makes sense that she'd be considering whether to play this season or not. MSG and playing in front of her dad were big selling points for her. Losing the MSG portion could conceivably be a big deal to her.
It's not like she needs the money. She donates a large portion of her WNBA salary anyway.
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NYL_WNBA_FAN
Joined: 28 May 2007
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| Posted: 02/08/18 9:00 pm ::: |
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Regarding this season, I have to decide what I want to do. I love the games literally more than anything else in life. Anything. That's not an exaggeration. I have a timer set on my cell phone how many days, hours and minutes till the season starts once April rolls around. No other sport to me matches the teamwork and execution needed to win as much as women's basketball does when it's played at its best.
However, there's a lot of weeknight games. The trip isn't brutal for me from the Bronx but it isn't right down the block either. I don't foresee being a season-ticket holder. And if Tina doesn't play I'm probably going to call it a day and root for Vegas since the team will be officially on life support anyway.
Ugh.
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LibFan25
Joined: 01 Sep 2012
Posts: 894
Location: NY
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| Posted: 02/08/18 9:07 pm ::: |
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| Luuuc wrote: |
| Just been looking around the area on Google street view and it barely even qualifies to be called the suburbs out there. Not sure I've ever seen a higher concentration of golf courses and country clubs in one area before (not that I've ever been remotely interested in looking for that) ... but my point being there looks like very little local population to be the supporter base up there. Pretty grim. |
lol yup its like located in a middle of nowhere to me, they got few spots to chill at and hang to eat but its NOT the city where there's so much to do and more people around.
honestly, im not complaining cuz its about 20-25 min drive from my crib, but overall this sucks i feel for all the liberty fans in the city.
i really hope the Liberty can make a run in the playoffs this year and win a championship, it will make the Libs more attractive to a buyer to support the team 100% and cares
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J-Spoon
Joined: 31 Jan 2009
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| Posted: 02/08/18 9:36 pm ::: |
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I think 5.000 will be plenty for who they will be able to get out there. NYC fans aren't going to go on the regular so hoping there are a lot of bored families in the area looking for cheap family entertainment. Would definitely be pushing group sales to summer camps, retirement communities, Church groups, Girl and Boy Scouts, really anyone. People who take the Subway to the game and go because it is affordable are going to be priced out if they have to pay an addition $20-$34 dollars in travel fees.
I'm hoping this is a one a done deal and some deep pocket owners with some Entertainment or sports industry cache comes along because, I don'r see the team being viable long term in WestChester county. But I think Westchester is because Dolan still owns them. So New Ownership will very likely mean new location. I'm just hoping the new location doesn't mean relocation to a different geographical area such as The Bay area.
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Luuuc
#NATC
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
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| Posted: 02/08/18 9:41 pm ::: |
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Drop your wife & kids at the game, go play golf with your middle management bros, then pick the family up again on the way back home.
Now someone just needs to make night time golf a thing.
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Randy
Joined: 08 Oct 2011
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| Posted: 02/08/18 10:16 pm ::: |
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| J-Spoon wrote: |
| I think 5.000 will be plenty for who they will be able to get out there. |
You are probably dead on. Here is an article about the g-league team. Game crowds seem to be in the range of 1,000 to 3300 (record according to a tweet the team posted.) Liberty may draw more, or less.
https://www.splicetoday.com/sports/nothin-but-a-g-league
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The Westchester County Center is located on a broken Parisian-style roundabout intersection unreachable from any angle. Parking lots are shoehorned over creek beds with creepy pedestrian bridges. The joint holds 5,000 people, and despite a brisk walk-up last Friday, the official attendance was listed as 1,453. The basketball floor drenched with Chase bank logos is situated in an auditorium space with a balcony running three-quarters around and a proscenium and stage at the far end. Behind a few caterer’s curtains is the “Heineken Club” stashed at an awkward distance from the basket. The ceiling rafters have haunting vaudeville-style bulb lighting that could pass for set design for any production of “The Elephant Man.”
Opting for a floor seat, I found myself ushered by a Wanda Sykes lookalike into a psych ward of some kind. Everyone around me had a head injury or a deformity and looked like they’d been prescribed to attend basketball as part of their recoveries. Further glances revealed endless fan grotesqueries I hadn’t see since witnessing a donkey basketball game back in central Ohio in the late 1970s. |
Sorry Liberty fans. Your FUHLJ seems like a mild response.
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myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008
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Queenie
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
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Location: Queens
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| Posted: 02/08/18 10:19 pm ::: |
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One other thing that's come up in conversations.
Mom got me into sports. She bought our Liberty season tickets until such time as I moved over to sit with Happycappie. (And, y'know. Moved in with him and married him, but we're talking about important things here.) Mom loves her some basketball.
But we were talking about this whole debacle earlier tonight, and one of the things she said was that she doesn't want to give money to this bastard. And I wonder how many other fans feel the same way. How many are saying "FUCK JIM DOLAN" with their wallets? I know I'm cutting non-WBB events at MSG and on MSG out of my life.
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jmvcity
Joined: 21 Jun 2013
Posts: 338
Location: Big Apple
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| Posted: 02/08/18 11:07 pm ::: |
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WHO?!?!
Liberty announces executive promotions to strengthen front office - Keia Clarke named Liberty COO and Dan Padover VP of Basketball Operations.
(from Facebook)
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josephkramer44
Joined: 23 Aug 2016
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| Posted: 02/08/18 11:45 pm ::: |
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| So this is a disaster, both for Liberty fans and the prospects of economic success for the team in the greater NYC area?
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root_thing
Joined: 28 Apr 2007
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| Posted: 02/09/18 12:27 am ::: |
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| josephkramer44 wrote: |
| So this is a disaster, both for Liberty fans and the prospects of economic success for the team in the greater NYC area? |
The arena is pretty much the worst case scenario from a fan's point of view: out-of-the-way, expensive travel, nothing else to do in the area.
As for economic success, that's harder to gage. A growing number of teams are moving to small arenas. Perhaps they figured out a business model that doesn't need live fans. Between TV rights, sponsorships, and commercials, maybe you can generate enough revenue to survive if the costs are kept to a minimum. In other words, the WNBA can function as a TV show or streaming content. I mean this in all seriousness. There are so many media outlets now that need content. It's just a matter of matching the cost level to the revenue streams. Think of cheap arenas as studios or sound stages. The players are actors. The coaches are directors. You don't even need to pay scriptwriters. The few fans in the stands are like the laugh track, music score or sound effects.
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Happycappie25
Joined: 07 Feb 2006
Posts: 4174
Location: QUEENS!!!!
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| Posted: 02/09/18 1:02 am ::: |
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| root_thing wrote: |
| josephkramer44 wrote: |
| So this is a disaster, both for Liberty fans and the prospects of economic success for the team in the greater NYC area? |
The arena is pretty much the worst case scenario from a fan's point of view: out-of-the-way, expensive travel, nothing else to do in the area.
As for economic success, that's harder to gage. A growing number of teams are moving to small arenas. Perhaps they figured out a business model that doesn't need live fans. Between TV rights, sponsorships, and commercials, maybe you can generate enough revenue to survive if the costs are kept to a minimum. In other words, the WNBA can function as a TV show or streaming content. I mean this in all seriousness. There are so many media outlets now that need content. It's just a matter of matching the cost level to the revenue streams. Think of cheap arenas as studios or sound stages. The players are actors. The coaches are directors. You don't even need to pay scriptwriters. The few fans in the stands are like the laugh track, music score or sound effects. |
I worked in a one off event on NBC that was like this...it works...it's profitable...basically the arena keeps the tickets and you just give seats away...you just want a good tv product...title sponsor pays the overhead...other sponsors add up to your product...many smaller bowl games run like that...now running a league team with several games like this...we shall see
bottom line...ticket sales mean jack diddly poo to the overall bottom line...this is why best mathematical model...going 10-5k fans...is cutting it in half and they find this more "Profitable"...if they really were setting it up for a new owner they'd stay in MSG then get the team into transition midseason.
As for Keia Clarke...she is a great longtime marketer...2nd in command to bernert for most of her years here...she's deserved this title...worked her ass off...as for padover...no clue.
but don't knock Keia...ive sang her praises in a few promos...sad it had to come like this...darkest day...
here's some disturbing math for us:
plan seats being equal...itd be cheaper from queens to go 2.5 hours to MOHEGAN than it will be to go 2 hours to white plains...for only a half hour more commute
To white plains...1.5 hour subway ride to 22 per person 1 hour metro north ride to another metro swipe to bus or half hour walk to arena plus food
Vs
To mohegan...1 hour subway bus ride...$15 chinatown bus per person one time $5 tip free food voucher...
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Bob Lamm
Joined: 11 Apr 2010
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| Posted: 02/09/18 1:24 am ::: |
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| Happycappie25 wrote: |
| To white plains...1.5 hour subway ride to 22 per person 1 hour metro north ride to another metro swipe to bus or half hour walk to arena plus food |
Your note about the walk from the Metro North station to the Westchester County Center is very helpful for me. And bad news. I'd wondered about that and toad had very kindly posted directions for that walk. It sounded like much less than a half hour walk, but of course I couldn't be sure.
Even from where I live (Upper West Side), the thought of the subway ride to Grand Central or Harlem, getting on a Metro North train to White Plains, and then a 30-minute walk to the arena doesn't sound very appealing.
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