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#5 Notre Dame vs #19 Duke 2/4/18
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CBiebel



Joined: 23 Dec 2004
Posts: 646
Location: PA


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PostPosted: 02/05/18 3:15 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
Fighting Artichoke wrote:
ArtBest23 wrote:
readyAIMfire53 wrote:
Queenie wrote:
Muffet gonna Muffet. Good grit by ND.


Yep. This game was won by Coach Muffet and lost by Coach JPM.


Or it could be that top to bottom ND is simply more talented and better.

It's not like Duke was expected to win or that McCallie blew the game.


Brown and Greenwell are both fantastic. And Odom is very, very good. Duke has always had talent, but Coach P holds them back. It's really hard to argue against that.

Duke was also hurt by the absence of a healthy Gorecki.


Not buying it.

Not buying it at all.

Ogunbowale is better than Brown.

Regardless of what she might have been without all the knee surgeries, Greenwell today is slow as a snail, can't drive, can't defend, and isn't as good or as versatile as Mabrey.

Nobody on Duke is close to Young or Shepard.

These teams are not close to even. ND is the clearly superior team. It would have been a huge upset for Duke to have won. You can't honestly attribute the loss just to coaching.


How much of that can be attributed to player development? Is it that they aren't talented (BTW, I disagree with your assessment, but for the sake of argument...) or is it that their talents aren't properly used and developed?


ArtBest23



Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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PostPosted: 02/05/18 2:42 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

CBiebel wrote:
ArtBest23 wrote:
Fighting Artichoke wrote:
ArtBest23 wrote:
readyAIMfire53 wrote:
Queenie wrote:
Muffet gonna Muffet. Good grit by ND.


Yep. This game was won by Coach Muffet and lost by Coach JPM.


Or it could be that top to bottom ND is simply more talented and better.

It's not like Duke was expected to win or that McCallie blew the game.


Brown and Greenwell are both fantastic. And Odom is very, very good. Duke has always had talent, but Coach P holds them back. It's really hard to argue against that.

Duke was also hurt by the absence of a healthy Gorecki.


Not buying it.

Not buying it at all.

Ogunbowale is better than Brown.

Regardless of what she might have been without all the knee surgeries, Greenwell today is slow as a snail, can't drive, can't defend, and isn't as good or as versatile as Mabrey.

Nobody on Duke is close to Young or Shepard.

These teams are not close to even. ND is the clearly superior team. It would have been a huge upset for Duke to have won. You can't honestly attribute the loss just to coaching.


How much of that can be attributed to player development? Is it that they aren't talented (BTW, I disagree with your assessment, but for the sake of argument...) or is it that their talents aren't properly used and developed?


First Brown was "developed" by Brenda Frese, so you can't just pawn that off on McCallie. And Greenwell's problem stems mostly from injuries that began while still in HS. I doubt her quickness deficiency can be pinned on McCallie either. Odom seems to be developing just fine, and the rest of the roster isn't exactly inspiring.

Frankly, I think Brown has been developed into a hell of a lot better player and teammate since arriving at Duke than she ever was under Frese.

I'm curious what you disagree with, though. What parts of Duke's roster do you think are better than Notre Dame's?


WNBA 09



Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 7574
Location: Dallas , Texas


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PostPosted: 02/05/18 3:58 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I think Lexie was more effective at MD than Duke. Just my opinion though .



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ArtBest23



Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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PostPosted: 02/05/18 6:10 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

WNBA 09 wrote:
I think Lexie was more effective at MD than Duke. Just my opinion though .


I think she was a thoroughly out of control selfish ball hog.


WNBA 09



Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 7574
Location: Dallas , Texas


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PostPosted: 02/05/18 7:39 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
WNBA 09 wrote:
I think Lexie was more effective at MD than Duke. Just my opinion though .


I think she was a thoroughly out of control selfish ball hog.


She hit shots , big shots at MD. Here she struggles to create her own shot off the dribble. ALOT



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readyAIMfire53



Joined: 20 Nov 2004
Posts: 5479
Location: Durham, NC


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PostPosted: 02/06/18 12:11 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

WNBA 09 wrote:
ArtBest23 wrote:
WNBA 09 wrote:
I think Lexie was more effective at MD than Duke. Just my opinion though .


I think she was a thoroughly out of control selfish ball hog.


She hit shots , big shots at MD. Here she struggles to create her own shot off the dribble. ALOT


Any team with Lexie Brown on it is not going to win. She's a very talented individual player but does not have basic team concepts down such as senior leadership being responsible for getting players on the same page on the court. She has been "developed" to play in an incompetent offense. There's no telling how she'll do in a pro offense. SHE IS NOT A POINT GUARD. She will get killed bringing the ball up in the pro game. Think early WNBA Kristi TOliver.



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CBiebel



Joined: 23 Dec 2004
Posts: 646
Location: PA


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PostPosted: 02/06/18 5:21 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:

I'm curious what you disagree with, though. What parts of Duke's roster do you think are better than Notre Dame's?


It goes back to player development. McGraw is better at developing players, so your question isn't really addressing the issue.

My point was that Duke did recruit a lot of talented players. Many of them were wanted by ND, but chose Duke over ND.

A better question would be "Would the players on Duke be playing better if they had chosen ND?"


ArtBest23



Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 12735



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PostPosted: 02/06/18 10:36 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

CBiebel wrote:
ArtBest23 wrote:

I'm curious what you disagree with, though. What parts of Duke's roster do you think are better than Notre Dame's?


It goes back to player development. McGraw is better at developing players, so your question isn't really addressing the issue.

My point was that Duke did recruit a lot of talented players. Many of them were wanted by ND, but chose Duke over ND.
A better question would be "Would the players on Duke be playing better if they had chosen ND?"


Many? If TWO constitutes MANY I guess. I was talking about the CURRENT roster. And one of the two is only a freshman.

And you may consider that a "better question" but it has nothing to do with the comments I made with which you said you disagreed. Which was simply that there's no big surprise in ND winning that game because ND is, at this time, in the real world, with the rosters as presently constituted, the more talented team across the board. No depth, but superior talent.


WNBA 09



Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 7574
Location: Dallas , Texas


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PostPosted: 02/06/18 12:09 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

readyAIMfire53 wrote:
WNBA 09 wrote:
ArtBest23 wrote:
WNBA 09 wrote:
I think Lexie was more effective at MD than Duke. Just my opinion though .


I think she was a thoroughly out of control selfish ball hog.


She hit shots , big shots at MD. Here she struggles to create her own shot off the dribble. ALOT


Any team with Lexie Brown on it is not going to win. She's a very talented individual player but does not have basic team concepts down such as senior leadership being responsible for getting players on the same page on the court. She has been "developed" to play in an incompetent offense. There's no telling how she'll do in a pro offense. SHE IS NOT A POINT GUARD. She will get killed bringing the ball up in the pro game. Think early WNBA Kristi TOliver.


Great comparison , she doesn't turn the ball over as much as Mopey did but hopefully she develops that way .



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