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#5 Notre Dame vs #19 Duke 2/4/18

 
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sigur3



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PostPosted: 02/03/18 11:38 pm    ::: #5 Notre Dame vs #19 Duke 2/4/18 Reply Reply with quote

Noon CT
ESPN2: http://www.espn.com/watch/?gameId=400995094&sport=basketball&lang=en


Fighting Artichoke



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PostPosted: 02/04/18 11:49 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Stats: http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=211694755


Fighting Artichoke



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PostPosted: 02/04/18 11:59 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Notre Dame may be without Kat Westbeld, who suffered a bad shiner last game due to an inadvertent elbow by UNC freshman post Janelle Bailey. Muffet stated that Kristina Nelson gets the start if Kat cannot, leaving ND's bench with a single scholarship player on it: freshman forward Danielle Patterson.

https://www.ndinsider.com/basketball/womens/no-notre-dame-may-face-no-duke-without-kathryn-westbeld/article_f867d05a-093b-11e8-a3f5-bbc1fb439777.html


willtalk



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PostPosted: 02/04/18 12:21 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Fighting Artichoke wrote:
Notre Dame may be without Kat Westbeld, who suffered a bad shiner last game due to an inadvertent elbow by UNC freshman post Janelle Bailey. Muffet stated that Kristina Nelson gets the start if Kat cannot, leaving ND's bench with a single scholarship player on it: freshman forward Danielle Patterson.

https://www.ndinsider.com/basketball/womens/no-notre-dame-may-face-no-duke-without-kathryn-westbeld/article_f867d05a-093b-11e8-a3f5-bbc1fb439777.html
None scholarship players are fine on the bench. It's when they have to play that it becomes a problem. Rolling Eyes


Fighting Artichoke



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PostPosted: 02/04/18 12:58 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

willtalk wrote:
Fighting Artichoke wrote:
Notre Dame may be without Kat Westbeld, who suffered a bad shiner last game due to an inadvertent elbow by UNC freshman post Janelle Bailey. Muffet stated that Kristina Nelson gets the start if Kat cannot, leaving ND's bench with a single scholarship player on it: freshman forward Danielle Patterson.

https://www.ndinsider.com/basketball/womens/no-notre-dame-may-face-no-duke-without-kathryn-westbeld/article_f867d05a-093b-11e8-a3f5-bbc1fb439777.html
None scholarship players are fine on the bench. It's when they have to play that it becomes a problem. Rolling Eyes

Confused about the eyeroll. Can you explain?


Fighting Artichoke



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PostPosted: 02/04/18 12:58 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Kat is suited up and so will probably play.


Fighting Artichoke



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PostPosted: 02/04/18 1:13 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Wow. Ugly game so far. Neither team can hit shots, even when they are open.

ND: 2-8
Duke: 2-11

5-5 with 4:36 left in the first quarter.


Fighting Artichoke



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PostPosted: 02/04/18 1:23 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ND 13-12 after 1. Greenwell hits a baseline 3 at the buzzer.


Fighting Artichoke



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PostPosted: 02/04/18 1:36 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ND 27-23 mid quarter 2.

Duke 8 O boards vs. 1 for the Irish.

Duke 10 turnovers vs. 6 for the Irish.


Fighting Artichoke



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PostPosted: 02/04/18 1:47 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ND 33-29 at the half.


Fighting Artichoke



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PostPosted: 02/04/18 1:52 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Wow the studio announcer at the half thought Kia Nurse was Lou when they were singing the Eagles fight song. (They showed the clip after showing the UConn/Cincinnati highlights.)


Fighting Artichoke



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PostPosted: 02/04/18 2:25 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ND 54-46 after 3.


sigur3



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PostPosted: 02/04/18 2:30 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Ogwunbowale is terrific but still has some maturing to do. Lots of impatient and/or poor decisions against this zone.


Fighting Artichoke



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PostPosted: 02/04/18 2:50 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ND wins 72-54 after a strong 4th quarter.

ND 9-18 from 3. Duke mostly gave them the shot and stopped the pass down low to Shepard and Nelson.


Queenie



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PostPosted: 02/04/18 2:56 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Muffet gonna Muffet. Good grit by ND.



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Nixtreefan



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PostPosted: 02/04/18 3:48 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

sigur3 wrote:
Ogwunbowale is terrific but still has some maturing to do. Lots of impatient and/or poor decisions against this zone.


Long way to go with the team part of the game. Does she always get a way with the walk when she gets it and takes off?


readyAIMfire53



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PostPosted: 02/04/18 4:22 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Queenie wrote:
Muffet gonna Muffet. Good grit by ND.


Yep. This game was won by Coach Muffet and lost by Coach JPM.



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Fighting Artichoke



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PostPosted: 02/04/18 4:46 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

readyAIMfire53 wrote:
Queenie wrote:
Muffet gonna Muffet. Good grit by ND.


Yep. This game was won by Coach Muffet and lost by Coach JPM.


I was impressed that Williams returned to Duke for this game, given her apparent dislike for Coach P. Of course there were lots of other Dukies that returned for this. The crowd seemed disappointingly small, however.

I thought Coach P. did a good job in this game. She collapsed on defense and dared ND to shoot from outside. But ND foiled that approach by shooting 9/18 from beyond the arc.

But in general I agree that Coach P has been far more impressive in recruiting than in winning.


joetro



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PostPosted: 02/04/18 5:40 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

How many losses has Greenwell had against ND? I love her game but she definitely picked the wrong coach.


Fighting Artichoke



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PostPosted: 02/04/18 5:53 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

joetro wrote:
How many losses has Greenwell had against ND? I love her game but she definitely picked the wrong coach.


And the worst part is that when she committed it to Duke over ND, it was because she said that Coach P had convinced her that her chances of winning were greater at Duke. That has not proven to be accurate. Muffet needs to sell ND harder. Could it be that she feels compelled to speak honestly instead of using truthful hyperbole? That may place her at a disadvantage. Or perhaps she just lacks the charisma of Coach P?


ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 02/04/18 5:55 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

readyAIMfire53 wrote:
Queenie wrote:
Muffet gonna Muffet. Good grit by ND.


Yep. This game was won by Coach Muffet and lost by Coach JPM.


Or it could be that top to bottom ND is simply more talented and better.

It's not like Duke was expected to win or that McCallie blew the game.


Shades



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PostPosted: 02/04/18 5:55 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Getting deep in here.



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Fighting Artichoke



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PostPosted: 02/04/18 6:00 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
readyAIMfire53 wrote:
Queenie wrote:
Muffet gonna Muffet. Good grit by ND.


Yep. This game was won by Coach Muffet and lost by Coach JPM.


Or it could be that top to bottom ND is simply more talented and better.

It's not like Duke was expected to win or that McCallie blew the game.


Brown and Greenwell are both fantastic. And Odom is very, very good. Duke has always had talent, but Coach P holds them back. It's really hard to argue against that.

Duke was also hurt by the absence of a healthy Gorecki.


ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 02/04/18 9:25 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Fighting Artichoke wrote:
ArtBest23 wrote:
readyAIMfire53 wrote:
Queenie wrote:
Muffet gonna Muffet. Good grit by ND.


Yep. This game was won by Coach Muffet and lost by Coach JPM.


Or it could be that top to bottom ND is simply more talented and better.

It's not like Duke was expected to win or that McCallie blew the game.


Brown and Greenwell are both fantastic. And Odom is very, very good. Duke has always had talent, but Coach P holds them back. It's really hard to argue against that.

Duke was also hurt by the absence of a healthy Gorecki.


Not buying it.

Not buying it at all.

Ogunbowale is better than Brown.

Regardless of what she might have been without all the knee surgeries, Greenwell today is slow as a snail, can't drive, can't defend, and isn't as good or as versatile as Mabrey.

Nobody on Duke is close to Young or Shepard.

These teams are not close to even. ND is the clearly superior team. It would have been a huge upset for Duke to have won. You can't honestly attribute the loss just to coaching.


readyAIMfire53



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PostPosted: 02/04/18 11:17 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Fighting Artichoke wrote:
readyAIMfire53 wrote:
Queenie wrote:
Muffet gonna Muffet. Good grit by ND.


Yep. This game was won by Coach Muffet and lost by Coach JPM.


I was impressed that Williams returned to Duke for this game, given her apparent dislike for Coach P. Of course there were lots of other Dukies that returned for this. The crowd seemed disappointingly small, however.



EWill came to Durham for DWB alum reunion, which Coach G attended. LOTS of pics with EWill, players who played for Coach G and Coach G. She attended the game with 40 other DWB alums. Not one alum came to see Coach JPM and none of them come to games on non-reunion weekends. They honored the 2006 team at halftime.

The alums all got to see the disapointing level DWB has fallen to.



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CBiebel



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PostPosted: 02/05/18 3:15 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
Fighting Artichoke wrote:
ArtBest23 wrote:
readyAIMfire53 wrote:
Queenie wrote:
Muffet gonna Muffet. Good grit by ND.


Yep. This game was won by Coach Muffet and lost by Coach JPM.


Or it could be that top to bottom ND is simply more talented and better.

It's not like Duke was expected to win or that McCallie blew the game.


Brown and Greenwell are both fantastic. And Odom is very, very good. Duke has always had talent, but Coach P holds them back. It's really hard to argue against that.

Duke was also hurt by the absence of a healthy Gorecki.


Not buying it.

Not buying it at all.

Ogunbowale is better than Brown.

Regardless of what she might have been without all the knee surgeries, Greenwell today is slow as a snail, can't drive, can't defend, and isn't as good or as versatile as Mabrey.

Nobody on Duke is close to Young or Shepard.

These teams are not close to even. ND is the clearly superior team. It would have been a huge upset for Duke to have won. You can't honestly attribute the loss just to coaching.


How much of that can be attributed to player development? Is it that they aren't talented (BTW, I disagree with your assessment, but for the sake of argument...) or is it that their talents aren't properly used and developed?


ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 02/05/18 2:42 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

CBiebel wrote:
ArtBest23 wrote:
Fighting Artichoke wrote:
ArtBest23 wrote:
readyAIMfire53 wrote:
Queenie wrote:
Muffet gonna Muffet. Good grit by ND.


Yep. This game was won by Coach Muffet and lost by Coach JPM.


Or it could be that top to bottom ND is simply more talented and better.

It's not like Duke was expected to win or that McCallie blew the game.


Brown and Greenwell are both fantastic. And Odom is very, very good. Duke has always had talent, but Coach P holds them back. It's really hard to argue against that.

Duke was also hurt by the absence of a healthy Gorecki.


Not buying it.

Not buying it at all.

Ogunbowale is better than Brown.

Regardless of what she might have been without all the knee surgeries, Greenwell today is slow as a snail, can't drive, can't defend, and isn't as good or as versatile as Mabrey.

Nobody on Duke is close to Young or Shepard.

These teams are not close to even. ND is the clearly superior team. It would have been a huge upset for Duke to have won. You can't honestly attribute the loss just to coaching.


How much of that can be attributed to player development? Is it that they aren't talented (BTW, I disagree with your assessment, but for the sake of argument...) or is it that their talents aren't properly used and developed?


First Brown was "developed" by Brenda Frese, so you can't just pawn that off on McCallie. And Greenwell's problem stems mostly from injuries that began while still in HS. I doubt her quickness deficiency can be pinned on McCallie either. Odom seems to be developing just fine, and the rest of the roster isn't exactly inspiring.

Frankly, I think Brown has been developed into a hell of a lot better player and teammate since arriving at Duke than she ever was under Frese.

I'm curious what you disagree with, though. What parts of Duke's roster do you think are better than Notre Dame's?


WNBA 09



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PostPosted: 02/05/18 3:58 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I think Lexie was more effective at MD than Duke. Just my opinion though .



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ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 02/05/18 6:10 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

WNBA 09 wrote:
I think Lexie was more effective at MD than Duke. Just my opinion though .


I think she was a thoroughly out of control selfish ball hog.


WNBA 09



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PostPosted: 02/05/18 7:39 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
WNBA 09 wrote:
I think Lexie was more effective at MD than Duke. Just my opinion though .


I think she was a thoroughly out of control selfish ball hog.


She hit shots , big shots at MD. Here she struggles to create her own shot off the dribble. ALOT



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readyAIMfire53



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PostPosted: 02/06/18 12:11 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

WNBA 09 wrote:
ArtBest23 wrote:
WNBA 09 wrote:
I think Lexie was more effective at MD than Duke. Just my opinion though .


I think she was a thoroughly out of control selfish ball hog.


She hit shots , big shots at MD. Here she struggles to create her own shot off the dribble. ALOT


Any team with Lexie Brown on it is not going to win. She's a very talented individual player but does not have basic team concepts down such as senior leadership being responsible for getting players on the same page on the court. She has been "developed" to play in an incompetent offense. There's no telling how she'll do in a pro offense. SHE IS NOT A POINT GUARD. She will get killed bringing the ball up in the pro game. Think early WNBA Kristi TOliver.



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CBiebel



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PostPosted: 02/06/18 5:21 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:

I'm curious what you disagree with, though. What parts of Duke's roster do you think are better than Notre Dame's?


It goes back to player development. McGraw is better at developing players, so your question isn't really addressing the issue.

My point was that Duke did recruit a lot of talented players. Many of them were wanted by ND, but chose Duke over ND.

A better question would be "Would the players on Duke be playing better if they had chosen ND?"


ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 02/06/18 10:36 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

CBiebel wrote:
ArtBest23 wrote:

I'm curious what you disagree with, though. What parts of Duke's roster do you think are better than Notre Dame's?


It goes back to player development. McGraw is better at developing players, so your question isn't really addressing the issue.

My point was that Duke did recruit a lot of talented players. Many of them were wanted by ND, but chose Duke over ND.
A better question would be "Would the players on Duke be playing better if they had chosen ND?"


Many? If TWO constitutes MANY I guess. I was talking about the CURRENT roster. And one of the two is only a freshman.

And you may consider that a "better question" but it has nothing to do with the comments I made with which you said you disagreed. Which was simply that there's no big surprise in ND winning that game because ND is, at this time, in the real world, with the rosters as presently constituted, the more talented team across the board. No depth, but superior talent.


WNBA 09



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PostPosted: 02/06/18 12:09 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

readyAIMfire53 wrote:
WNBA 09 wrote:
ArtBest23 wrote:
WNBA 09 wrote:
I think Lexie was more effective at MD than Duke. Just my opinion though .


I think she was a thoroughly out of control selfish ball hog.


She hit shots , big shots at MD. Here she struggles to create her own shot off the dribble. ALOT


Any team with Lexie Brown on it is not going to win. She's a very talented individual player but does not have basic team concepts down such as senior leadership being responsible for getting players on the same page on the court. She has been "developed" to play in an incompetent offense. There's no telling how she'll do in a pro offense. SHE IS NOT A POINT GUARD. She will get killed bringing the ball up in the pro game. Think early WNBA Kristi TOliver.


Great comparison , she doesn't turn the ball over as much as Mopey did but hopefully she develops that way .



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