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The Schumer Shutdown
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scullyfu



Joined: 01 Jan 2006
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Location: Niagara Falls


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PostPosted: 01/20/18 10:55 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

the repugs delayed on the re-authorization of CHIP, for no reason. except to put people's emotions on a roller-coaster. now they want to use it as some sort of badge of honor that they're willing to now fund it for 6 years.

Jammer: there was a bipartisan bill from Graham & Durbin that 45, after saying he'd sign any bill put before him, did his usual aboutface & backed out. great negotiator, eh? and that was only the first offering. apparently when Schumer went to the WH, his compromise was to fund a portion of the wall. so what did 45 do? yep, he rejected it.

so you tell me, Jammer, who's the obstructionist? even McConnell says party leadership doesn't have a clue what 45 does or doesn't want. and for that, we can all thank John Kelly who dissuaded 45 that the Graham-Durbin bill would piss off his base. well guess what, your base is only ~35% and you've now really pissed of the other 65% of us!



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jammerbirdi



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: 01/20/18 11:25 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Let’s just say that’s all true. I mean some of it is political rhetoric but I don’t disagree that Trump is burning bridges on all sides much like Arnold (another entertainment figure) did soon after taking over as governor of California.

But here is something that is also true. We would not be here if Trump hadn’t made the ‘shithole’ comments. That created an opening for the resistance side of the Democratic Party to put immense pressure on the Democratic leadership to not be seen as having worked with Trump to resolve anything at all. Plus, it would be impossible for the Elizabeth Warrens and Cory Bookers, senators with higher ambitions, to be seen as voting for and thus participating in Trump averting a shut down by being Trump the dealmaker in chief. These things are as real as any other aspect of this mess.

Now. As long as we’re shut down I’d like to take this opportunity to catch up on some badly needed napping. If you don’t mind.


Richard 77



Joined: 19 Nov 2004
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PostPosted: 01/20/18 7:40 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

This issue, like so many others stem from the same, tired old mantras the political parties use to defend their positions while trying to ridicule the other side's.

Democrats/Liberals: "You're too paranoid!"

Republicians/Conservatives: "You're not paranoid enough!"

And they would both rather repeat themselves over and over again instead of releasing their hang-ups and come together in the middle to find a common-ground solution.



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StevenHW



Joined: 25 Jul 2005
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PostPosted: 01/20/18 8:38 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

U.S. Armed Forces personnel will not be able to see the NFL playoffs this Sunday! Shocked

http://www.cnn.com/2018/01/20/politics/afn-network-government-shutdown/index.html



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Richard 77



Joined: 19 Nov 2004
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PostPosted: 01/20/18 10:01 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

StevenHW wrote:
U.S. Armed Forces personnel will not be able to see the NFL playoffs this Sunday! Shocked

http://www.cnn.com/2018/01/20/politics/afn-network-government-shutdown/index.html


"I received this from a young infantryman serving in Afghanistan this morning. Sad that the men and women who have sacrificed so much are deprived of even the most basic connection to home bc Democrats are playing political games. #SchumerShutdown"

Um... Ms. Republican? Aren't you a part of the personal responsibility party? Where is the republican's fault in all of this?



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Randy



Joined: 08 Oct 2011
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PostPosted: 01/21/18 10:37 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Senate GOP refuses to go to 51% to end the shutdown. Who is to blame now? They were happy to do it for the Supreme Court nominee.


scullyfu



Joined: 01 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: 01/21/18 11:07 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

let's play who's the obstructionist:

Sen. Claire McCaskill (D-MO) tried to pass a bill guaranteeing military pay and death benefits during the gov’t shutdown — and GOP leader Mitch McConnell blocked it.

#TrumpShutdown



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Richard 77



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PostPosted: 01/21/18 12:23 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

It was reported that the AFN will broadcast the NFL games after all.



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calbearman76



Joined: 02 Nov 2009
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PostPosted: 01/22/18 1:21 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I don't care who gets blamed for the shutdown. Indeed by the time November rolls around very few people will even care about the government shutdown. There will be some that might bring it up, but almost all will either be reporters trying to make a story where none exists or extreme partisans who made up their mind about how they were voting long before the shutdown.

From my standpoint the biggest problem I have with the shutdown is that once again the Trump administration has shown itself totally uninterested in doing even the most basic aspects of governing. The possibility of a shutdown has been looming for quite awhile, and yet it is clear the administration gave it no thought as to the ramifications. We now have a shutdown where the Air Force Academy decided they couldn't play their basketball games but the Army and Navy played theirs. We have a flu epidemic that has killed 30 children but as of Saturday night no one at the CDC had been informed whether or not they were working Monday. Some National Parks are open; others are closed, and the rationale for the differences are not entirely clear. The Statue of Liberty was closed this weekend but is presumably opening either Monday or Tuesday with money from the State of New York.

The ramifications of the shutdown will grow larger every day it continues. For instance I was asked today whether the shutdown would affect health insurance for people who bought their insurance through the national exchange. It is an interesting question, but one for which I doubt I will be able to get a definitive answer. Presumably the government will not be making its share of the premium payments if the shutdown extends to February 1. I am certain there are 100 other questions that are similarly interesting that effect many peoples lives, but I doubt there has been any significant thought given to any of them.

It is as if every decision is made without thought, and certainly without consistency. Even now, if news reports are to be believed (and generally I do, albeit with some skepticism) it appears that the Senate may be close to a potential short tem fix and they have put it together without White House input because NEITHER side feels they can trust Trump. Whether the deal can hold together overnight, be accepted by the House and signed by our buffoon-in-chief we should know tomorrow, but even this deal will only kick the can down the road 3 weeks.

I worked in state government as a Republican working for a Democratic governor during the Clinton administration. I saw some partisan battles as well as bipartisan work getting done, even during the impeachment fight. There was a way of segregating issues, trusting individuals in general even if you were diametrically opposed on some points. Trump certainly does not understand this, and it seems he has either surrounded himself with other people who are similarly narrow-minded or he demands such fealty that none of his trusted lieutenants can be trusted either.


Howee



Joined: 27 Nov 2009
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Location: Oklahoma (in my heart), whilst on my way to Oregon!


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PostPosted: 01/22/18 10:34 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

calbearman76 wrote:
There was a way of segregating issues, trusting individuals in general even if you were diametrically opposed on some points. Trump certainly does not understand this....


Think about it: he cut his teeth in the world of NYC real estate. (As Shumer said: it's like negotiating with Jello) Then he gets caught up in the Ego-centric world of TV ratings with The Apprentice. He's brought an entirely new standard to the milieu. And it AIN'T a good one.



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cthskzfn



Joined: 21 Nov 2004
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PostPosted: 01/22/18 12:12 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

"Schumer Shutdown" as accurate as "Democrats pass tax bill".



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jammerbirdi



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: 01/22/18 1:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Anyone who DVR’d John King’s Inside Politics today on (cough, choke) CNN, which went down during the senate vote to end the shutdown, make sure you watch it. It’s really the only thing worth watching on CNN but today’s real-time analysis was spot on, honest, and just essential viewing. This is a network whose bread and butter is ripping Donald Trump a new one. If you want to get out of your own heads and hear what the takeaway of all of this REALLY is, and likely will be historically, then you would do well to hear what was said on this show today. Because they gave the final score without spin.

Because, alas, it won’t last. All networks will quickly return to their previous positions by this afternoon. Sad. Wink


sambista



Joined: 25 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: 01/22/18 1:47 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

jammerbirdi wrote:
Anyone who DVR’d John King’s Inside Politics today on (cough, choke) CNN, which went down during the senate vote to end the shutdown, make sure you watch it. It’s really the only thing worth watching on CNN but today’s real-time analysis was spot on, honest, and just essential viewing. This is a network whose bread and butter is ripping Donald Trump a new one. If you want to get out of your own heads and hear what the takeaway of all of this REALLY is, and likely will be historically, then you would do well to hear what was said on this show today. Because they gave the final score without spin.

Because, alas, it won’t last. All networks will quickly return to their previous positions by this afternoon. Sad. Wink


i love john king all the time, as well as dana bash, and the interesting thing is those two were married ever so briefly. i guess they've made it work (on tv) because you'd never know. king has always been far more measured with his words and opinions than his colleagues. cnn's better on weekend mornings, especially with smerconish.



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Nixtreefan



Joined: 14 Nov 2012
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PostPosted: 01/22/18 6:55 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

jammerbirdi wrote:
Trump and Schumer are meeting at the White House. Hopefully they are alone. Please God let them be alone. Laughing I don't like either one of them but on some level I do believe if left to themselves they will make a deal.


Well Stormy is busy so there's that.


jammerbirdi



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: 01/22/18 7:54 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shit. I was going to start a thread titled Stormy Daniels is booked up through June. Cool


mercfan3



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PostPosted: 01/22/18 9:39 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

cthskzfn wrote:
"Schumer Shutdown" as accurate as "Democrats pass tax bill".


It’s amazing how some don’t understand math.



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jammerbirdi



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: 01/23/18 4:56 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

mercfan3 wrote:
cthskzfn wrote:
"Schumer Shutdown" as accurate as "Democrats pass tax bill".


It’s amazing how some don’t understand math.


It's amazing how some don't understand a LOT of things. lol. Like the apparently one-layer-of-irony-too-much (for some) joke animated by the gif that starts this thread. Or the notion that in terms of political branding, Schumer Shutdown was like Coke and Trump Shutdown was like RC Cola. That's just in terms of what sells better. Could be a naked lie. Could be a half-truth. It doesn't matter in terms of the brilliance of the message. Thus an SUV rolling over car crash into a parking space and Jim Carrey cluelessly saying, "Fits like a glove."

But there's more. There's the inability to leave the SPIN for paid talking heads on television. Who are you guys spinning? Don't be psychologically incapable of letting go of the need to adhere to political spin like you're winning some point here on Rebkell's. Come off the ceiling and speak the truth among friends. Stop spinning people who are on your side like some half-adult millennials or something. Isn't one of you like 90? Read the papers. You can't HIDE behind the math. Read the Daily Kos. Look at the vote and who voted yes and who voted no. Look who's pissed and WHY. Let the spin GO. Please. We're all friends here. There's nothing to be gained or proved.

This was SO simple. There's no hiding now what happened. CNN, at least the daytime shows I watched, never even tried! The Trump hating media isn't even trying to spin it now. The hard left isn't trying to spin it. They're not carrying the Democrats water for them. Why are you guys? They're all telling it like it is. Are you staffers or something?

The Truth. From the Trump hating New York Times:

Hoping for a Bargain in a Swift Surrender

By CARL HULSE

Over the weekend it became clear that using the shutdown to insist on protections for hundreds of thousands of undocumented immigrants was a serious miscalculation. By abandoning the strategy on its third day, Democrats believe they limited whatever damage there may be and gave the public time to forget about the disruption before the crucial November election.

Liberal Groups Feel Betrayed by Senate Democrats’ Vote

By JONATHAN MARTIN and ALEXANDER BURNS

“They blinked because they’ll always put the party and the success of the party first,” said Representative Luis V. Gutiérrez of Illinois, one of the leading Democratic advocates for immigrants, complaining that Hispanics got short shrift. “It’s the one word they know in Spanish: mañana.”

The hasty retreat by 33 Senate Democrats was particularly humiliating in the immediate aftermath of the anniversary of the Women’s March, which saw thousands of activists reconvene in cities across the country to protest against President Trump and congressional Republicans. Liberal groups such as MoveOn.org began urging members to sign up on Monday for rallies aimed at pressuring Republicans to protect the young undocumented immigrants known as Dreamers.

By noon, their own ostensible allies in Congress had buckled.

“The grass-roots are rightly furious with a slew of elected Democrats,” said Ben Wikler, the Washington director of MoveOn.org. “In the Obama years, Republicans learned to be more afraid of primary challenges than general elections. But Democrats are still operating as though the Tea Party is more powerful than The Resistance.”


There it is in the Trump hating newspaper of record. The New York Times is saying that DEMOCRATS used "the shutdown to insist on protections for hundreds of thousands of undocumented immigrants."

Shocked

And the second article talking about the hasty retreat and surrender of 33 Democrats. (Senators, I would add) In the spinfree atmosphere which I seek to occupy the question of what would the Democrats be retreating FROM exactly would seem reasonable to me. What did they surrender? The answers are part of the historical record, folks. Do you really not see that? They retreated from and surrendered their EFFORT of "using the shutdown to insist on protections for hundreds of thousands of undocumented immigrants."

Related. Politically. The problem in a nutshell. What happened here? Sounded like a good idea at the time, I'm sure. Pressured by their 'resistance' wing, of course. Emboldened by Trump's shithole comment. Senate Democrats thought they had a winning hand and they used a "shutdown to insist on protections for hundreds of thousands of undocumented immigrants."

So here is the deal. The American people SAW the United States government SHUT DOWN on behalf of the interests of illegal immigrants. And that reality stunned the people of this country. At least the ones who were paying attention. Sat them down wide-eyed and slack-jawed. And the political winds were very quickly apparent in Washington and most Democrats realized IMMEDIATELY what they had done. And that it was bad. I've spent my life learning those kinds of lessons. lol. Seemed like a good idea at the time. And then you're the first to know. Oh shit.

So the second article says that Dems are hoping people forget by midterms. But this thing here is unusual. This is a unique moment. The government of the United States was shut down on behalf of illegal immigrants. The Republicans are going to feed off of this LONG before November. As someone on CNN put it, this was the immigration policy Trump ran on PREVAILING in congress. The Republican Party now sees that they can withstand the heat from the Democrats and actually prevail. And then when November comes they're going to just run ads quoting CNN and the New York Times. Democrats used a government shutdown to insist on protections for hundreds of thousands of undocumented immigrants.

Look at the vote. Warren, Sanders, Corey Booker, BOTH California senators. All voted no. What did they vote NO to? lol. They voted NO to ending the shutdown. They voted to keep the shutdown going on behalf of hundreds of thousands of undocumented immigrants. They may have won over everyone on the progressive left and solidified their positions as progressive leaders going forward. But if any of them wanted to be President of the United States of America, they will RUE THE DAY they voted to keep the government shut down on behalf of illegal immigrants. (How it will be sold.)

Now. Do either of you two not KNOW that Elizabeth Warren is a political hero of mine and that I will be voting for her in any presidential primary or general election where I find her name on the ballot? You SHOULD know that. But if you don't, there it is. But I'm not sitting here spinning for her like I'm a fan who can't say anything bad about Micky Mouse or Disney. I tell it like I see it. Let's speak our TRUTHS to each other here.

One last thing. So this all happened on the one year anniversary of Trump's inauguration, of course. And there's been a lot to distract from that. This shutdown being the biggest thing. But there was the shithole comment. Stormy Daniels. The Wolfe book. Probably ten other things I'm forgetting.

But the one year anniversary gave SOME people in this world a measuring stick to look at something else that has happened in the last 12 months. Since Donald Trump was sworn in the DOW has gone from 19,800 to 26,100. Yeah. That's a 31% increase in the benchmark index in just one year. If the DOW was up 1500 points in the last year, Trump and his supporters would be able to say, and RIGHTLY SO, that the markets like Trump and his policies, etc. They'd have a case and no one would really be disputing it. (Except spin merchants) But this isn't a 1500 point increase. Or a 3000 point increase. (Which would have been one HELL of a first year for Trump on Wall St.) This is a 6000 point, 31% increase in the DOW.

Like I said. A lot of things were distracting from this fact. But distractions aside, people are no longer side-eyeing that increase. They're taking it in and absorbing and processing it now. Just how many Americans out there between 40-70 have retirement accounts through their jobs? Those people are right now being blown fucking away by what's happening in those retirement accounts. Trust me on that.

It was hard for them to say this on CNN this afternoon. So they said it in oblique ways. But the message was clear. Trump is winning. He won this round with the shutdown in a slaughter. This market increase and what it means to VOTERS around the country can NOT be overstated. It's going to be huge. He may be half an idiot and rotten to the core. It may be his team of evil reptiles. It may be blind luck. To US... and to the media... his presidency might look like one disaster after another. Certainly his appointments and what those people are up to WILL be disastrous. But Trump is succeeding at doing much of what he campaigned on. No, not exactly the for the forgotten man economic populism stuff. But politically speaking? They're used to being poor. Bottom line is, what they're seeing from Trump right now, they're fucking voting for him in 2020. And he's going to have a POSITIVE impact come midterms. I predict.

Because... it's the economy, stupid.

On the other side. People are digging their political graves, I'm sorry to say. I would seriously look for Trump's approval numbers to start climbing now. He'll do a lot of things to hold them down, just as he's been doing for the last year. But I think the perception that he's winning, if the economy continues chugging along and even if the markets just hold onto these gains, and the emboldened congressional GOP, a now maybe more willing segment of Democratic senators willing to deal -- all of these things bode very well for Trump going forward.

Yeah. This shut down was a BAD bad move by the Democrats.

Okay, seriously the last thing. This Cuomo bum on CNN who has his own show now. He's arguing with Kellyanne Conway about how Trump didn't do anything this weekend. The president was silent, totally on the sidelines, irrelevant, etc. That kind of stuff.

Kellyanne, straight up channeling Kate McKinnon from the dark side, just said something breathy and evil like, "What did you want him to do, Chris? The shutdown ended. It's over." Cool


pilight



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: 01/23/18 8:00 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

jammerbirdi wrote:
Come off the ceiling and speak the truth among friends.


The truth is that 99% of this Washington infighting is irrelevant to the vast majority of Americans.



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cthskzfn



Joined: 21 Nov 2004
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PostPosted: 01/23/18 8:54 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

There is no "Trump-hating" major media outlet, in print or otherwise, in the USA.



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sambista



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PostPosted: 01/23/18 9:23 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
jammerbirdi wrote:
Come off the ceiling and speak the truth among friends.


The truth is that 99% of this Washington infighting is irrelevant to the vast majority of Americans.


. . . because of ignorance and short attention spans, just like the president. america has dumbed down to the dregs.



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pilight



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PostPosted: 01/23/18 9:34 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

sambista wrote:
pilight wrote:
jammerbirdi wrote:
Come off the ceiling and speak the truth among friends.


The truth is that 99% of this Washington infighting is irrelevant to the vast majority of Americans.


. . . because of ignorance and short attention spans, just like the president. america has dumbed down to the dregs.


Well, no, because what people once got in 30 minutes of Walter Cronkite and another 30 minutes of reading the newspaper has turned into a 24 hour a day spectacle. Most of the Washington bullshit has always been irrelevant, people just pay more attention to it now.



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Marlene watches from the wall
Her mocking smile says it all
As she records the rise and fall
Of every soldier passing
sambista



Joined: 25 Sep 2004
Posts: 16479
Location: way station of life


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PostPosted: 01/23/18 12:39 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
sambista wrote:
pilight wrote:
jammerbirdi wrote:
Come off the ceiling and speak the truth among friends.


The truth is that 99% of this Washington infighting is irrelevant to the vast majority of Americans.


. . . because of ignorance and short attention spans, just like the president. america has dumbed down to the dregs.


Well, no, because what people once got in 30 minutes of Walter Cronkite and another 30 minutes of reading the newspaper has turned into a 24 hour a day spectacle. Most of the Washington bullshit has always been irrelevant, people just pay more attention to it now.


just because there's more news - and genuine fake news by people who aren't professional journalists - and it's on all the time doesn't mean it's being digested critically or comprehended.



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pilight



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PostPosted: 01/23/18 12:42 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

sambista wrote:
pilight wrote:
sambista wrote:
pilight wrote:
jammerbirdi wrote:
Come off the ceiling and speak the truth among friends.


The truth is that 99% of this Washington infighting is irrelevant to the vast majority of Americans.


. . . because of ignorance and short attention spans, just like the president. america has dumbed down to the dregs.


Well, no, because what people once got in 30 minutes of Walter Cronkite and another 30 minutes of reading the newspaper has turned into a 24 hour a day spectacle. Most of the Washington bullshit has always been irrelevant, people just pay more attention to it now.


just because there's more news - and genuine fake news by people who aren't professional journalists - and it's on all the time doesn't mean it's being digested critically or comprehended.


There's not more news. There's just more babble.



_________________
Marlene watches from the wall
Her mocking smile says it all
As she records the rise and fall
Of every soldier passing
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