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WBHOF finalists
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Happycappie25



Joined: 07 Feb 2006
Posts: 3952
Location: QUEENS!!!!


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PostPosted: 01/13/18 12:40 am    ::: Re: WBHOF finalists Reply Reply with quote

CamrnCrz1974 wrote:
Happycappie25 wrote:
Chamique Holdsclaw: Do you forgive? Numbers are numbers and she HAS the numbers. I get the mental illness, I do not belittle Mental Illness, as someone who needed the couch. I do not belittle mental illness. But there are some things that she has done that...give pause...Serious pause.

From a basketball standpoint do you forgive the way she walked off the Sparks.

From a human life standpoint do you forgive her for using a 9MM pistol as a lighter.

I do at a point. That point is once Catchings is eligible and voted in...not on this class. Me: Eventually Reality: Eventually (but likely more next year)


Let me introduce you to Lawrence Taylor, former NFL player and first-ballot Hall of Fame inductee.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_Taylor#Drugs,_alcohol,_and_personal_problems


I'll bite...I'm from New York...I can tell you a billion and one things good bad and ugly about LT...but his numbers from UNC to retirement were above and beyond reproach...he changed the game...Read the blind side instead of watching the film and you'll know he changed the game in ways that had nothing to do with his own position.

And LaDalian was a Hall of Famer in his own Right...but there is but ONE LT

Hundreds of men HS to Canton who wear 56 but only ONE true #56

But lets look about 15 miles to the east...across the george and whitestone bridges to a place called Shea Stadium...where we see the opposite arguement...full stop about off the field problems...not once but twice...Dwight Gooden was putting up numbers that was making Sandy Koufax's jaw hit the floor...Before bonds and the Juice, darryl strawberry was one of the most complete sluggers Baseball had ever seen...off field issues destroyed their careers, earning redemption only late in their careers with the Yankees mostly to cement the budding Yankee dynasty as NY's team by siphoning off nostalgic met fans...there were flashes most notibly Doc's excellent No hitter. but they were seen and are still seen as Squander and no where near the hall.

Now let's see the in between...Holdsclaw.

Her tennessee career was beyond a shadow of a doubt...up there with LT...indeed you can say she was that dominant.

But her W career...very good, excellent...but you can put it closer to the gooden straw category than you do LT

Her Mystics career was her peak, and that was frought with coaching clashes, Pat having to run into the front office briefly, and marginal team success the best being a conference final run where they won game 1 mostly off the old 1-2 format before being put in their place by the Black Era Libs.

Her teams weren't great but the college claw could have gotten something. Claw 23...Doc and Darryl the mets...no doubting that...this is 85% of her case...Claw 1...now...it gets...dicey.

Post number change...yes that was a thing...certainly post death of her Grandmother, as documented...the mental illness took hold...and for the most part...it was like Doc and Straw the yankees, A big game here...a playoff run there...but then everything that happened with the Sparks...and shell of herself runs later on in Atlanta and SA

Not even getting into the gun incident and YES this IS a huge reason I keep her off the first ballot when you have stronger resumes above her namely Thompson, who became the keystone everyone Thought Claw was going to be.

Remember, the mystics built their first roster as a throwaway just to turn it all around on the finger of the claw...and it WORKED for the first 4-5 years...she indeed WAS...THAT...GOOD

Numbers how much do you weigh college vs pro...if you weigh college > Pro this is a non starter, she's in with bells on

but you mitigate it with the...choppy...inconsistent and off court issue plagued W career...

It's closer than you think...she is NO LT...LT was dominent despite his many...MANY...flaws...in a way not seen since MAYBE Babe Ruth.

I still say she's in...in a 6 person ballot I vote for her.

In a 5...well we circle back to the assistant coach debate that is the other hot take on this thread

But I picked 3...and I stand by them

But I do think she gets in...and given what she has overcome, I will applaud...but I do think today...on this ballot...She doesn't get my vote this year but likely would in a weaker class.

She certainly was in a class by herself...good...bad...and ugly.



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tfan



Joined: 31 May 2010
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PostPosted: 01/13/18 1:50 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I'm also not in favor of putting in assistant coaches. I like the quote during the ESPN halftime show: "Chris Daily, best known for holding back Geno". We have no idea what they do in practice or otherwise, or how much credit to give them for any team success (although they potentially could make important contributions).


Nerd2



Joined: 06 Jun 2010
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PostPosted: 01/13/18 5:14 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:
I'm also not in favor of putting in assistant coaches. I like the quote during the ESPN halftime show: "Chris Daily, best known for holding back Geno". We have no idea what they do in practice or otherwise, or how much credit to give them for any team success (although they potentially could make important contributions).


We might not know but it's somewhat probable basketball insiders do.


Nerd2



Joined: 06 Jun 2010
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PostPosted: 01/13/18 5:19 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

As for Holdsclaw, even if she gets dinged for the issues while a pro, her importance in college will push her in.


calbearman76



Joined: 02 Nov 2009
Posts: 3124
Location: Carson City


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PostPosted: 01/13/18 12:59 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Happycappie25 wrote:
pilight wrote:
Went to the Internet Wayback Machine. The ** about assistants was there in November of 2016 but missing in June of 2016 There no crawls of the page between those two.


Hmmmmm sounds like this was already pre planned...I see both sides...and these are the only two assistants id even look at without laughing out the door (Warlick was put in as a player) ...


But yes halls of fame are for the best players and leaders...assistants by definition are not the leaders...they are the assistants.

Change my mind...too many good head coaches not in to consider assistants, even if they are the 2 best ever.


Actually there is another, Amy Tucker of Stanford.


tfan



Joined: 31 May 2010
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PostPosted: 01/13/18 2:48 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Nerd2 wrote:
tfan wrote:
I'm also not in favor of putting in assistant coaches. I like the quote during the ESPN halftime show: "Chris Daily, best known for holding back Geno". We have no idea what they do in practice or otherwise, or how much credit to give them for any team success (although they potentially could make important contributions).


We might not know but it's somewhat probable basketball insiders do.


Well, hopefully, those insiders were sitting in on many UConn practices (or spoke with someone who did), and not relying on a few comments from biased UConn players/ coaches that got passed around.

Daily is listed as the recruiting coordinator. You will see the assistant coach with that title credited for good recruits a school gets in their roster bio. So Daily could get credit for all the great recruits UConn has had over the years. But I wonder how much a recruit is influenced by the recruiting coordinator versus the school's past record and the head coach.


GlennMacGrady



Joined: 03 Jan 2005
Posts: 5101
Location: Heisenberg


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PostPosted: 01/13/18 6:02 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

If any assistant coach is justified in being elected to the WBHOF, Chris Dailey is a megaparsec ahead of anyone else. More than 1000 wins. 11 NCAA national championships. Recruiting coordinator for every All-American and Olympian who ever attended UConn.

In addition, Dailey was a two-year team captain and starter on the Rutgers squad that won the 1982 NAIA National Championship in the Cathedral of College Basketball. During Dailey's four years, the Lady Knights were 108-23.

pilight



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 57578
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PostPosted: 02/12/18 8:39 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

http://www.espn.com/wnba/story/_/id/22412279/tina-thompson-katie-smith-chamique-holdsclaw-highlight-women-basketball-hall-fame-2018-class

Quote:
Three Olympians who played important roles in the establishing years of the WNBA -- Tina Thompson, Katie Smith, and Chamique Holdsclaw -- and two iconic assistant coaches -- UConn's Chris Dailey and Tennessee's Mickie DeMoss -- highlight the 2018 class of the Women's Basketball Hall of Fame.

Seven honorees were announced Monday and will be enshrined June 9, 2018, at the Hall of Fame in Knoxville, Tennessee. The other two are former Colorado coach Ceal Barry, and longtime high school and junior college coach Rose Marie Battaglia.



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Genero36



Joined: 24 Apr 2005
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PostPosted: 02/12/18 8:43 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
http://www.espn.com/wnba/story/_/id/22412279/tina-thompson-katie-smith-chamique-holdsclaw-highlight-women-basketball-hall-fame-2018-class

Quote:
Three Olympians who played important roles in the establishing years of the WNBA -- Tina Thompson, Katie Smith, and Chamique Holdsclaw -- and two iconic assistant coaches -- UConn's Chris Dailey and Tennessee's Mickie DeMoss -- highlight the 2018 class of the Women's Basketball Hall of Fame.

Seven honorees were announced Monday and will be enshrined June 9, 2018, at the Hall of Fame in Knoxville, Tennessee. The other two are former Colorado coach Ceal Barry, and longtime high school and junior college coach Rose Marie Battaglia.


Congratulations to the class of 2018.



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Queenie



Joined: 18 Nov 2004
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PostPosted: 02/12/18 8:54 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Elena or GTFO.



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PUmatty



Joined: 10 Nov 2004
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PostPosted: 02/12/18 9:03 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I still think Barry is a strange and wholly undeserving choice.


HistoryWomensBasketball



Joined: 30 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: 02/17/18 8:17 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Really looking forward to this.

Have been asked by the WBHOF to have a book signing of Barnstorming America, Stories from the Pioneers of Women's Basketball the day of the induction.

The Inductees will be signing and we will be right near them. Barnstormers from all over the country who are in the book are already planning on attending.



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CamrnCrz1974



Joined: 18 Nov 2004
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PostPosted: 02/20/18 4:28 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

PUmatty wrote:
I still think Barry is a strange and wholly undeserving choice.


I agree.


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