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ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 01/11/18 6:30 pm    ::: A new low for Trump Reply Reply with quote

Today, addressing immigration, he referred to Haiti and all of Africa as "shithole nations" and said once people from Nigeria come here, they're never going to go "back to their huts".

And this is the President of the United States talking like this.

And the White House is defending him as "standing up for Americans".https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/trump-referred-haiti-african-countries-shithole-nations-n836946


jammerbirdi



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PostPosted: 01/11/18 7:52 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Eh.


toad455



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PostPosted: 01/11/18 7:59 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

such an embarrassment.



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Genero36



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PostPosted: 01/11/18 8:11 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

It's low but it's not new for him. He's always been a bigot and anyone who supports him and look the other way in favor of any of his policies are complicit in his racism.



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mercfan3



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PostPosted: 01/11/18 9:24 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

When your President calls foreign countries "shit holes" and you think to yourself, "..he's said worse."



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pilight



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PostPosted: 01/11/18 9:26 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Other presidents have likely said similar things. Time was that not every private utterance or off-hand remark made the front page.



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jammerbirdi



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PostPosted: 01/11/18 9:49 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The internet of outrage, everywhere, has become too many hard blunt objects bouncing everything off of everyone. A person or group of persons does not have to be a supporter of Trump or complicit in his racism to take a more nuanced view of this comment today.

First, yes, if accurate, it is an unfortunate statement to have emanated from mouth of the President of the United States. But that's the easy part. The rest is not so easy. There is the fact that a president, any president, should be able to speak freely and even this graphically and in a way that is this politically incorrect without it quickly being revealed to the public. What is said behind closed doors in the White House should stay there. Of course, we don't know if the White House itself put this information out there in order to gin up his base so that's another component that has to be taken into consideration.

So then there is the content, which is to say the truth or lack there of that is inherent or not in the statement. And then behind that is the question that can anyone even say that Haiti is a shithole country without a mechanism of scorn and rage rising up and accusing that person of being a racist, a bigot, an enabler of racism or bigotry, someone who should be destroyed online and maybe in real life as well.

So let me say this. I despise Rich Lowry. And I don't know why he hasn't been on TV much (TV that I watch anyway) but I have really enjoyed his absence. But he's on CNN today regarding this topic. And CNN has gone full outrage, for like the 20th time since Trump announced his presidency, wherein every single voice must express the shared opinion that Donald Trump has finally gone too far and that this is the ultimate final outrage wherein we all say enough is enough. Oh, and they also throw in that ONLY the most extreme white nationalist of his supporters could possibly stick with him or (where is my fainting couch?) agree with this latest example of a pure racist's bigotry.

Well. I agree with my new BFF Rich Lowry. So let me transcribe his comments and then I'll address from my own perspective what I think of the content of Trump's comments apart from Lowry's response.

Rich Lowry: This is a vulgar way of speaking. You don't want the president of the United States to talk this way especially if it's going to be repeated outside the room... but the level of freak-out about this I think goes to just how the elite on both the right and the left has gotten so disconnected from common sense on immigration.

These countries he was referring to, they are basket cases. They are disaster areas. And the point he was making in the context of the immigration policy discussion is that we'd be much better off with people with higher levels of education and skills coming here.


So the question comes up why Norway? Uh, Lowry points out that the Trump just met with the PM of Norway yesterday. He points out that people from Norway aren't going to be coming here, by the way, because Norway is not a basket case.

To that, Erin Burnett points out that Norway once was a basket case and its citizens migrated to the central part of the United States and did very well here.

To that, I think Lowry really nails it. Really.

When we had a different kind of economy. We had farming and industry. So many people are stuck in nostalgia on immigration policy, where they think that it's just the early 20th century, forever. You can have a lot of low skill people who want to work hard and they'll be fine because there are endless manufacturing jobs for them. That's not the way the American economy works anymore.


So here's what I think.

I don't know if we really need more merit based immigration wherein we import engineers and other highly educated and also maybe wealthy individuals, in masse, to add to our growing inequality in this country, our growing divide between an educated elite and a desperately ill-equipped, under-educated segment of our population, one that is well represented, I should add, in the populace of our most traditional 'minority', black people, but I am absolutely CERTAIN that we don't need to import more uneducated, unskilled, desperate people from shithole countries who will only end up on the streets here in a cold-blooded country that is right now letting massive quantities of black Americans, native born, rot and die in the streets, every single day. This is not even to mention the lack of opportunities, the traditional educational failures, the inevitable pathways to incarceration that have resulted in the epically disproportionate black male representation in the prison populations. Not even going there.

No. This, for me, is solely about the men and women on the streets. Freezing. Wet. Filthy. Homeless. And yeah, not just black but black to a ridiculous and cringe-worthy degree. We haven't solved this problem. It is all too disgustingly real. We are a nation that has proven that it cannot handle this particular problem. We can't fix it, we can't effect it, it seems, even, in any meaningful way. And it's growing every single day.

So there are countries where people are also poor and desperate. And black. Should we be allowing immigration from those countries? Of course. But should we have a swinging open door welcoming the poor and desperate from those countries? Yeah. Where? Exactly, are they going to be welcomed in this modern United States of America? You tell me.

How many of you people here in this thread live in a major American city? Did you walk or drive past a homeless person today? 50 of them? Were you appalled and did you invite every single last homeless person you saw today home to eat and sleep and share your own home or apartment? No you didn't. YOU can't handle this problem. Your country can't handle this problem. It is everywhere and it's just one ugly egregious example of a broken society in a great nation that is on a long downward spiral.

We should be helping other countries. We should be marshaling the wealth of other well-off nations like Norway to help with world-wide desperation. This is what I would hope from our country. But the truth is that we are so far from solving some of our most basic long standing problems that in so many respects our country mirrors this shit hole countries Trump is referring to. You want shithole? We got shithole.

I have to say. This is a great example. If we fucking can't talk turkey about issues like this we're never going to solve them. We will become a culture of fainting couch meme-makers that are so busy being triggered in some WAY by something that was said that we just stop talking about the most painful of our problems.

And lastly. My god. How many times can the mainstream media do this? How many times can they get on national television and present the information to the American people that the guy in the White House says things that they the media find to be too reprehensible for them to continue normal breathing. Official Washington finds this to be too reprehensible. Republicans find this to be too reprehensible. That, I'm sure, impresses absolutely no one.

Shithole? Seriously. I've been calling countries shitholes my entire life. That hasn't made me any less of an outspoken progressive person who advocates for a more humane world where solutions are found to the age-old problems of inequality and racial and ethnic strife. But a shithole is a shithole. And If you can't handle the word shithole as it is applied to shithole countries then I'd be seriously wondering what the hell you can handle in this life.


Genero36



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PostPosted: 01/11/18 9:55 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

<embed><iframe width="854" height="480" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/HjnXydLVezA" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe></embed>

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjnXydLVezA



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Genero36



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PostPosted: 01/11/18 9:57 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

<embed><iframe width="854" height="480" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/kSZVuKK7Q4s" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe></embed>

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSZVuKK7Q4s



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ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 01/11/18 10:58 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

By Daily News cover tomorrow morning.

https://twitter.com/NYDailyNews/status/951609805512331264?s=09

BTW, this wasn't some private conversation, this was a big meeting attended by a bunch of Senators and Representatives. There were cameras and pictures and video. It was public.


tfan



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PostPosted: 01/12/18 2:20 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I agree that unskilled immigration is contra-indicated, and has been for a long time. And I think that about skilled immigration as well. But immigration has been a sacred cow for as long as I have been alive, and I would actually call the whole matter an indoctrination.

We live in a time when:

Quote:
Tesla CEO Elon Musk, Y Combinator President Sam Altman, eBay Founder Pierre Omidyar, and a handful of others have expressed interest in basic income as a way to stave off the negative effects of widespread automation.


and yet we still export jobs, import workers and even have a party that is allegedly for the working class, who has another amnesty (which they slyly refer to as a path-to-citizenship) for illegal workers (who are euphemistically referred to as undocumented) as a top priority.

I think immigration is going to be around a long time, even though, in addition to the job situation, you have the other negative impacts of an ever-increasing population in our already full metro areas. I don't understand how people can sit in massive traffic jams and then remain silent as their politicians approve more and more development.


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PostPosted: 01/12/18 6:59 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

randomly,

love me some ana navarro. she never holds back. bless her heart.

i'd rather gag myself with a fork, knife and spoon all at once than listen to chris cuomo for one second.

so some folks'll say trump's only being real, saying aloud what others are thinking. ok, then let's get all the way real and round up everyone who wasn't born here and send them away en masse, like the nazis did with another group of outcasts. let's see how the well-to-do fare. and let's see how willing trump would be to pay fair wages to a bunch of norwegians to work at his florida properties, instead of the haitians he has there now working for slave wages.



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pilight



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PostPosted: 01/12/18 7:48 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
By Daily News cover tomorrow morning.

https://twitter.com/NYDailyNews/status/951609805512331264?s=09

BTW, this wasn't some private conversation, this was a big meeting attended by a bunch of Senators and Representatives. There were cameras and pictures and video. It was public.


So there's video of him saying this?



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When the straight and narrow
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sambista



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PostPosted: 01/12/18 9:23 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
ArtBest23 wrote:
By Daily News cover tomorrow morning.

https://twitter.com/NYDailyNews/status/951609805512331264?s=09

BTW, this wasn't some private conversation, this was a big meeting attended by a bunch of Senators and Representatives. There were cameras and pictures and video. It was public.


So there's video of him saying this?


i doubt there's video, but sen. dick durbin, who was in the meeting, just confirmed the language trump used, as reported by mainstream media. in fact, he said trump used vile language several times, more than has been reported.

so yeah - trump, who's trying to deny it now on twitter, is still a big freakin liar. and who would believe him at this point?



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PUmatty



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PostPosted: 01/12/18 10:33 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I am really confused by the collective freak-out about this. Is there anyone who is surprised?


Genero36



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PostPosted: 01/12/18 10:40 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Quote:
America was built on the backs of immigrants from around the globe. We must honor that history, not reject it. It starts with respectful rhetoric and signing bipartisan DACA legislation.
— John Kasich (@JohnKasich) January 11, 2018


Quote:
America's president is a racist and this is the proof. His hateful rhetoric has no place in the @WhiteHouse

Every single Republican must denounce these comments now. https://t.co/9eOyAcAxeF
— Jim McGovern (@RepMcGovern) January 11, 2018


Quote:
HATCH: "I look forward to getting a more detailed explanation regarding the President's comments. Part of what makes America so special is that we welcome the best and brightest in the world, regardless of their country of origin." #utpol
— Senator Hatch Office (@senorrinhatch) January 11, 2018


Quote:
.@realDonaldTrump -- You would never call a predominantly white country a "shithole" because you are unable to see people of color, American or otherwise, as equals.
— Congressmember Bass (@RepKarenBass) January 11, 2018


Quote:
Immigrants from countries across the globe - including and especially those from Haiti and all parts of Africa - have helped build this country. They should be welcomed and celebrated, not demeaned and insulted.
— Kamala Harris (@SenKamalaHarris) January 11, 2018


http://www.cnn.com/2018/01/11/politics/congress-reaction-trump-shithole-countries/index.html



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Genero36



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PostPosted: 01/12/18 11:35 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Time to Say It: Trump Is a Racist

Quote:
• Trump’s real-estate company was sued twice by the federal government in the 1970s for discouraging the renting of apartments to African-Americans and preferring white tenants, such as “Jews and executives.”

• In 1989, Trump took out ads in New York newspapers urging the death penalty for five black and Latino teenagers accused of raping a white woman in Central Park; he continued to argue that they were guilty as late as October 2016, more than 10 years after DNA evidence had exonerated them.

• He spent years claiming that the nation’s first black president was born not in the United States but in Africa, an outright lie that Trump still has not acknowledged as such.

• He began his 2016 presidential campaign by disparaging Mexican immigrants as criminals and “rapists.”

• He has retweeted white nationalists without apology.

• He frequently criticizes prominent African-Americans for being unpatriotic, ungrateful and disrespectful.

• He called some of those who marched alongside white supremacists in Charlottesville last August “very fine people.”

• He is quick to highlight crimes committed by dark-skinned people, sometimes exaggerating or lying about it (such as a claim about growing crime from “radical Islamic terror” in Britain). He is very slow to decry hate crimes committed against dark-skinned people (such as the murder of an Indian man in Kansas last year).

• At the White House yesterday, Trump vulgarly called for less immigration from Haiti and Africa and more from Norway.


https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/12/opinion/trump-racist.html



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jammerbirdi



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PostPosted: 01/12/18 12:28 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

When people pull out the ‘we’re a nation of immigrants’ stuff I understand why gorillas throw their shit at people.


Randy



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PostPosted: 01/12/18 12:37 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

This is just Trump pandering to his base yet again. He speaks their minds.


jammerbirdi



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PostPosted: 01/12/18 1:01 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

PUmatty wrote:
I am really confused by the collective freak-out about this. Is there anyone who is surprised?


He also said yesterday, on the record, that he “probably has a very good relationship with Kim Jung Un of North Korea.” But yes, never mind that potentially nuclear bit of lunacy, let us instead freak the fuck right out of our collective minds because in a closed door meeting he called Haiti a shithole. The entire country, led by the news media, should have looked like a herd of spooked gazelles on the savannah, necks outstretched and wide-eyed, when this president said that wombat-shit crazy shit he said about North Korea. But our news media is blown. They are long gone.

Remember ten years ago when nobody watched CNN? The place was a wasteland every night. Larry King interviewing Sharon Stone. They even had an anti-immigration host, Lou Dobbs. Well they remember and they’re not going back to those days even if it means being the shithole of news networks. But hell, don’t stop there. Remember when dull old CNN was like the American BBC? Sort of the model for the mostly excellent Al Jazeera and scores of other national TV news desks around the world? Yeah. CNN learned some long, and I mean decades long, hard HARD lessons in what works and what doesn’t work to garner ratings for a modern 24-hour news network in America.

Donald Trump’s daily antics sure does beat Larry King interviewing washed-up game show hosts or god forbid some nuts and bolts reporting on what’s happening in all the endless shitholes around world, starting with our own.


Genero36



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PostPosted: 01/12/18 1:10 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

<embed><iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/R3mjJV_XGaQ" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe></embed>

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3mjJV_XGaQ



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sambista



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PostPosted: 01/12/18 1:38 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

PUmatty wrote:
I am really confused by the collective freak-out about this. Is there anyone who is surprised?


no. and yes. and as painful as it is to endure this period in our country's history, it's a wake-up call to make it clear that little (of true substance) has changed. people keep telling the disenfranchised to "get over it," that the past is past. but no - the past is present, and trump is saying aloud what's in the hearts and minds of . . . not everyone, for sure, but way too many. so as painful as it is now, we should be thankful that trump is flailing us with this shit every day. eyes wide open, an opportunity to change course.



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StevenHW



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PostPosted: 01/12/18 1:56 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
Other presidents have likely said similar things. Time was that not every private utterance or off-hand remark made the front page.


It's a good thing Twitter was not around during the Harry Truman administration. Rolling Eyes



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Stonington_QB



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PostPosted: 01/12/18 2:40 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

sambista wrote:
pilight wrote:
ArtBest23 wrote:
By Daily News cover tomorrow morning.

https://twitter.com/NYDailyNews/status/951609805512331264?s=09

BTW, this wasn't some private conversation, this was a big meeting attended by a bunch of Senators and Representatives. There were cameras and pictures and video. It was public.


So there's video of him saying this?


i doubt there's video, but sen. dick durbin, who was in the meeting, just confirmed the language trump used, as reported by mainstream media. in fact, he said trump used vile language several times, more than has been reported.

so yeah - trump, who's trying to deny it now on twitter, is still a big freakin liar. and who would believe him at this point?

Tom Cotton and David Purdue say they never heard him say that
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2018/01/12/senator-who-immigration-meeting-trump-he-said-hate-filled-vile-and-racist-things/1027816001/

So now it's "he said, she said."

I'll believe Tom Cotton before I ever believe Dick Durban. Not that it really matters either way because it's still true.

Would anyone like to answer the President's question as to why they only want the poor and downtrodden from these countries to come to the USA? I can answer... it's because they are looking for Democrat voters. People with skills who are willing to use them productively will likely not vote for Democrats.


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PostPosted: 01/12/18 2:45 pm    ::: Re: A new low for Trump Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
Today, addressing immigration, he referred to Haiti and all of Africa as "shithole nations" and said once people from Nigeria come here, they're never going to go "back to their huts".

And this is the President of the United States talking like this.

And the White House is defending him as "standing up for Americans".https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/trump-referred-haiti-african-countries-shithole-nations-n836946

Thank you for the rumor mill-based "unknown sources" to gin up a bunch of false outrage over something the President may or may not have said.

I'm sure if one of your people said (or "reportedly" said) this you'd be on here crapping your pants about it.


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