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pilight



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PostPosted: 01/11/18 8:03 pm    ::: WBHOF finalists Reply Reply with quote

http://www.espn.com/wnba/story/_/id/22047372/former-tennessee-star-chamique-holdsclaw-uconn-associate-head-coach-chris-dailey-highlight-women-basketball-hall-fame-finalists

Elena Baranova
Ceal Barry
Rose Marie Battaglia
Chris Dailey
Mickie DeMoss
Chamique Holdsclaw
Vickie Orr
Katie Smith
Valerie Still
Tina Thompson



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PostPosted: 01/11/18 8:18 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

IMO, I would put in Dailey and DeMoss at the same time, and I would put in Smith and Thompson at the same time. I don't think you can put both pairs in in the same year.

I also want to put in Elena Baranova, but I don't know how much of that is genuine respect for her work internationally and how much of it is because I f'n love me some Elena.

I will probably not be popular for this, but I'm leaning no on Holdsclaw. I recognize her mental health issues, but simultaneously recognize she wasn't that far from killing a teammate.

{edited with MOAR thoughts}

Going to wbhof.com, it looks like they've been putting in six people per class for the last 14 years, so it seems likely that this is their standard until and unless we've finally caught up with our history. Based on that, my ballot would be: Baranova, Dailey, DeMoss, Smith, Still, Thompson.



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PostPosted: 01/11/18 8:26 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I agree on Holdsclaw.



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PostPosted: 01/11/18 8:38 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Queenie wrote:
IMO, I would put in Dailey and DeMoss at the same time, and I would put in Smith and Thompson at the same time. I don't think you can put both pairs in in the same year.

I also want to put in Elena Baranova, but I don't know how much of that is genuine respect for her work internationally and how much of it is because I f'n love me some Elena.

I will probably not be popular for this, but I'm leaning no on Holdsclaw. I recognize her mental health issues, but simultaneously recognize she wasn't that far from killing a teammate.


There isn't a doubt in my mind that those two should be first ballot HOFers for this honor and Naismith.



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PostPosted: 01/11/18 9:05 pm    ::: Re: WBHOF finalists Reply Reply with quote

Chris Dailey
Mickie DeMoss

Gonna start here...I got issues with putting in Assistants when there are eligible head coaches worthy who are not even on the ballot (Yes this is where you insert my annual Robin Selvig rant) I agree with Queenie not because she's queenie they should get in collectively because they are an extraordinary exception to the rule. DeMoss also gets push for being the spark that helped turn Kentucky into a Power. This is tough because I do think they deserve...but I vote eventually. Head coaches over assistant coaches players over assistant coaches. And at least put Selvig on the Ballot...Ditto Molly Bolin. but Likely will...so Me No...reality yes.

Elena Baranova IN...Said it for a while now...combo of NT and W numbers. Likely won't but I've been getting more loud for her for years...Belongs. Me: YES Reality No

Ceal Barry: Me No...left Colorado a shell of itself...was good not great better coaches eligible ahead of her. Me No Reality No

Rose Marie Battaglia: Only the best of the best of the best that is 1...UNO...Singular Sensation...should be repping HS and Juco...that is filled...Me No: Reality Eventually

Chamique Holdsclaw: Do you forgive? Numbers are numbers and she HAS the numbers. I get the mental illness, I do not belittle Mental Illness, as someone who needed the couch. I do not belittle mental illness. But there are some things that she has done that...give pause...Serious pause.

From a basketball standpoint do you forgive the way she walked off the Sparks.

From a human life standpoint do you forgive her for using a 9MM pistol as a lighter.

I do at a point. That point is once Catchings is eligible and voted in...not on this class. Me: Eventually Reality: Eventually (but likely more next year)

Vickie Orr: Victim of the Chasm sadly...those nearly 20 years between the WBL and the ABL/WNBA. Great player but we'll never know truly how much because she never got the shot to show it. Me: no Reality: You may need a veterans committee but for now...No Molly Bolin...no room for players like this.

Katie Smith: In...College, ABL, W, NT, check check check check. No brainer in this regard, See my Naismith post for more. Me In Reality May get usurped by Holdsclaw but she belongs in

Valerie Still: Falls down the Chasm as well, but not as badly. I do think she has a time but this year is just too strong. Me: Eventually Reality: Borderline

Tina Thompson: IN. No question, last of the founders not in...belongs to be both halls the same year...was a Rock of the W...NT standout, underrated but very good in college...Me In Reality In

Me says 3: Baranova Thompson Smith Reality 4 possibly 5: yes I know they've been getting 6 a year but I'm using a high bar.

The 2 assistants, Thompson Smith and possibly holdsclaw...If they do go 6 I'll be appeased with Baranova and not irked with Still

STILL

WHY NO ROBIN SELVIG EVEN BEING CONSIDERED

WHY NO MOLLY BOLIN EVEN BEING CONSIDERED



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pilight



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PostPosted: 01/11/18 9:10 pm    ::: Re: WBHOF finalists Reply Reply with quote

Happycappie25 wrote:

Rose Marie Battaglia: Only the best of the best of the best that is 1...UNO...Singular Sensation...should be repping HS and Juco...that is filled...


Does that mean only one player, one college coach, etc.? Because all those spots are filled also.

Also, the WBHOF does not have a character clause like the baseball HOF does.



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PostPosted: 01/11/18 9:32 pm    ::: Re: WBHOF finalists Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
Happycappie25 wrote:

Rose Marie Battaglia: Only the best of the best of the best that is 1...UNO...Singular Sensation...should be repping HS and Juco...that is filled...


Does that mean only one player, one college coach, etc.? Because all those spots are filled also.

Also, the WBHOF does not have a character clause like the baseball HOF does.


Fair point but doesn't change my Mind on Battaglia...divisions are divisions for a reason...Do believe they should be considered but the bar should be extraordinary...certainly in this strong year.

To me character is an Implicit clause in all sports...and well I can think of ONE major person who isn't even thought of despite coaching numbers that scream HOF which is strictly character (Portland) but that is an extreme example...and I am not saying she doesn't belong in...I just have pause using a high bar in a loaded class...Yes character Explicit in Baseball (tho John McGraw is in so yeah...and don't start on Yawkey who bought his way in (and was an abhorrent racist even for his era))

I do think with the classes of 6 Holdsclaw gets in...I'd wait a year...the numbers are obvious...its everything else that needs scrutiny



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PostPosted: 01/11/18 11:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Smith, Thompson and Holdsclaw.
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PostPosted: 01/12/18 7:24 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Katie Smith should be an automatic check mark. Period.
pilight



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PostPosted: 01/12/18 8:37 am    ::: Re: WBHOF finalists Reply Reply with quote

Elena Baranova. Marginal, IMO, but considering who else is in and their determination to have six inductees every year she's all but a lock.

Ceal Barry. A ridiculous choice. She's not the best eligible coach by a longshot. If you're going to get in as a major conference D-I coach, show me some F4s.

Rose Marie Battaglia. Much as I admire the WBHOF's efforts to recognize and celebrate the lower levels, this is going a bit too far.

Chris Dailey
Mickie DeMoss I vote no on assistants as HOFers.

Chamique Holdsclaw. On court she's as big a no-brainer pick as there's ever been. Off court, she's had issues. I would put her in.

Vickie Orr. Maybe she would have been better as a pro. Looking at her college and Team USA career, I'd give a hard no.

Katie Smith. We've covered this before.

Valerie Still. Had a long and impressive Euroleague career to go with her great college numbers. Borderline, but I'd say yes.

Tina Thompson. The most qualified person on the list.



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PostPosted: 01/12/18 10:47 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Baranova was MVP of the World Championships in 1998 even though the U.S. won the gold.

A fabulous player ...

But how much does, or should, international play count?



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PostPosted: 01/12/18 10:55 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
But how much does, or should, international play count?

Considering the place calls itself the WBHOF, not the USWBHOF, it should count for plenty.



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PostPosted: 01/12/18 12:59 pm    ::: Re: WBHOF finalists Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
Elena Baranova. Marginal, IMO, but considering who else is in and their determination to have six inductees every year she's all but a lock.

Ceal Barry. A ridiculous choice. She's not the best eligible coach by a longshot. If you're going to get in as a major conference D-I coach, show me some F4s.

Rose Marie Battaglia. Much as I admire the WBHOF's efforts to recognize and celebrate the lower levels, this is going a bit too far.

Chris Dailey
Mickie DeMoss I vote no on assistants as HOFers.

Chamique Holdsclaw. On court she's as big a no-brainer pick as there's ever been. Off court, she's had issues. I would put her in.

Vickie Orr. Maybe she would have been better as a pro. Looking at her college and Team USA career, I'd give a hard no.

Katie Smith. We've covered this before.

Valerie Still. Had a long and impressive Euroleague career to go with her great college numbers. Borderline, but I'd say yes.

Tina Thompson. The most qualified person on the list.


Agree about barry big time...there are at least 4 coaches who are eligible not on the ballot above her...and im not even counting portland due to off court controversy...lowest common denominator is grentz imho....shes well behind grentz...crap id vote harry over barry and you know how critical i am of harry



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PostPosted: 01/12/18 1:28 pm    ::: Re: WBHOF finalists Reply Reply with quote

Happycappie25 wrote:
Chamique Holdsclaw: Do you forgive? Numbers are numbers and she HAS the numbers. I get the mental illness, I do not belittle Mental Illness, as someone who needed the couch. I do not belittle mental illness. But there are some things that she has done that...give pause...Serious pause.

From a basketball standpoint do you forgive the way she walked off the Sparks.

From a human life standpoint do you forgive her for using a 9MM pistol as a lighter.

I do at a point. That point is once Catchings is eligible and voted in...not on this class. Me: Eventually Reality: Eventually (but likely more next year)


Let me introduce you to Lawrence Taylor, former NFL player and first-ballot Hall of Fame inductee.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_Taylor#Drugs,_alcohol,_and_personal_problems


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PostPosted: 01/12/18 1:40 pm    ::: Re: WBHOF finalists Reply Reply with quote

Happycappie25 wrote:
Agree about barry big time...there are at least 4 coaches who are eligible not on the ballot above her...and im not even counting portland due to off court controversy...lowest common denominator is grentz imho....shes well behind grentz...crap id vote harry over barry and you know how critical i am of harry


A partial list of coaches who have more wins and a higher winning percentage in D-I than Ceal Barry and aren't in the WBHOF...

Lynne Agee
Lisa Bluder
Kevin Borseth
Doug Bruno
Tony Cross
Elaine Elliott
Bill Fennelly
Joe Foley
Mike Granelli
Joanne P McCallie
Joe McKeown
Wes Moore
Rene Portland
Gordy Presnell
Robin Selvig
Bob Spencer
Lisa Stone



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PostPosted: 01/12/18 2:08 pm    ::: Re: WBHOF finalists Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
Happycappie25 wrote:
Agree about barry big time...there are at least 4 coaches who are eligible not on the ballot above her...and im not even counting portland due to off court controversy...lowest common denominator is grentz imho....shes well behind grentz...crap id vote harry over barry and you know how critical i am of harry


A partial list of coaches who have more wins and a higher winning percentage in D-I than Ceal Barry and aren't in the WBHOF...

Lynne Agee
Lisa Bluder
Kevin Borseth
Doug Bruno
Tony Cross
Elaine Elliott
Bill Fennelly
Joe Foley
Mike Granelli
Joanne P McCallie
Joe McKeown
Wes Moore
Rene Portland
Gordy Presnell
Robin Selvig
Bob Spencer
Lisa Stone


in 22 years at Colorado, the best finish her team ever had was the Elite Eight, which she accomplished on three occasions.

How many college coaches in the WBHOF have never made an NCAA Final Four (not counting coaches who pre-dated the NCAA Tournament or who made a Final Four or won a title before the NCAA existed for WBB)?

As an aside, Joanne P. McCallie has made at least the Elite Eight five times (once at MSU, four times at Duke), with one Final Four (national-runner up in 2005, with MSU). Her overall record and conference titles far surpass Ceal Barry.


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PostPosted: 01/12/18 2:14 pm    ::: Re: WBHOF finalists Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
Happycappie25 wrote:
Agree about barry big time...there are at least 4 coaches who are eligible not on the ballot above her...and im not even counting portland due to off court controversy...lowest common denominator is grentz imho....shes well behind grentz...crap id vote harry over barry and you know how critical i am of harry


A partial list of coaches who have more wins and a higher winning percentage in D-I than Ceal Barry and aren't in the WBHOF...

Lynne Agee
Lisa Bluder
Kevin Borseth
Doug Bruno
Tony Cross
Elaine Elliott
Bill Fennelly
Joe Foley
Mike Granelli
Joanne P McCallie
Joe McKeown
Wes Moore
Rene Portland
Gordy Presnell
Robin Selvig
Bob Spencer
Lisa Stone


How is Doug Bruno not in the WBHOF? His innovative approach is enough to merit it.


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PostPosted: 01/12/18 2:24 pm    ::: Re: WBHOF finalists Reply Reply with quote

CamrnCrz1974 wrote:
How many college coaches in the WBHOF have never made an NCAA Final Four (not counting coaches who pre-dated the NCAA Tournament or who made a Final Four or won a title before the NCAA existed for WBB)?


Marian Washington

Sue Gunter didn't make a F4 until her last season, when Pokey Chatman was running the team. Gunter wasn't even on the sidelines for most of that season.



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PostPosted: 01/12/18 2:31 pm    ::: Re: WBHOF finalists Reply Reply with quote

dtsnms wrote:
pilight wrote:
Happycappie25 wrote:
Agree about barry big time...there are at least 4 coaches who are eligible not on the ballot above her...and im not even counting portland due to off court controversy...lowest common denominator is grentz imho....shes well behind grentz...crap id vote harry over barry and you know how critical i am of harry


A partial list of coaches who have more wins and a higher winning percentage in D-I than Ceal Barry and aren't in the WBHOF...

Lynne Agee
Lisa Bluder
Kevin Borseth
Doug Bruno
Tony Cross
Elaine Elliott
Bill Fennelly
Joe Foley
Mike Granelli
Joanne P McCallie
Joe McKeown
Wes Moore
Rene Portland
Gordy Presnell
Robin Selvig
Bob Spencer
Lisa Stone


How is Doug Bruno not in the WBHOF? His innovative approach is enough to merit it.


Not enough on-court success? Forget Final Fours, he has never been to an Elite Eight. He has made the Sweet Sixteen four times - out of 29 years.


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PostPosted: 01/12/18 5:59 pm    ::: Re: WBHOF finalists Reply Reply with quote

Happycappie25 wrote:
Chris Dailey
Mickie DeMoss

Gonna start here...I got issues with putting in Assistants when there are eligible head coaches worthy who are not even on the ballot (Yes this is where you insert my annual Robin Selvig rant) I agree with Queenie not because she's queenie they should get in collectively because they are an extraordinary exception to the rule. DeMoss also gets push for being the spark that helped turn Kentucky into a Power. This is tough because I do think they deserve...but I vote eventually. Head coaches over assistant coaches players over assistant coaches. And at least put Selvig on the Ballot...Ditto Molly Bolin. but Likely will...so Me No...reality yes.

Elena Baranova IN...Said it for a while now...combo of NT and W numbers. Likely won't but I've been getting more loud for her for years...Belongs. Me: YES Reality No

Ceal Barry: Me No...left Colorado a shell of itself...was good not great better coaches eligible ahead of her. Me No Reality No

Rose Marie Battaglia: Only the best of the best of the best that is 1...UNO...Singular Sensation...should be repping HS and Juco...that is filled...Me No: Reality Eventually

Chamique Holdsclaw: Do you forgive? Numbers are numbers and she HAS the numbers. I get the mental illness, I do not belittle Mental Illness, as someone who needed the couch. I do not belittle mental illness. But there are some things that she has done that...give pause...Serious pause.

From a basketball standpoint do you forgive the way she walked off the Sparks.

From a human life standpoint do you forgive her for using a 9MM pistol as a lighter.

I do at a point. That point is once Catchings is eligible and voted in...not on this class. Me: Eventually Reality: Eventually (but likely more next year)

Vickie Orr: Victim of the Chasm sadly...those nearly 20 years between the WBL and the ABL/WNBA. Great player but we'll never know truly how much because she never got the shot to show it. Me: no Reality: You may need a veterans committee but for now...No Molly Bolin...no room for players like this.

Katie Smith: In...College, ABL, W, NT, check check check check. No brainer in this regard, See my Naismith post for more. Me In Reality May get usurped by Holdsclaw but she belongs in

Valerie Still: Falls down the Chasm as well, but not as badly. I do think she has a time but this year is just too strong. Me: Eventually Reality: Borderline

Tina Thompson: IN. No question, last of the founders not in...belongs to be both halls the same year...was a Rock of the W...NT standout, underrated but very good in college...Me In Reality In

Me says 3: Baranova Thompson Smith Reality 4 possibly 5: yes I know they've been getting 6 a year but I'm using a high bar.

The 2 assistants, Thompson Smith and possibly holdsclaw...If they do go 6 I'll be appeased with Baranova and not irked with Still

STILL

WHY NO ROBIN SELVIG EVEN BEING CONSIDERED

WHY NO MOLLY BOLIN EVEN BEING CONSIDERED


For such a long post, I agree nearly 100%. Agree 100% on Selvig, not quite as strong on Bolin. But I can't get on board with the assistants at all. DeMoss at least stepped out and started something at Kentucky. Sorry Chris, if you want to be an HOFer, you have to show that you can do something for yourself. So I would be irked if one or both get in. It would say that the World of Women's Basketball is basically just Knoxville and Storrs. Bad message.


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PostPosted: 01/12/18 7:00 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

After commenting on this issue a few times I decided to go to the source (the WBHOF website) for some guidance on the basis for nominating/selecting individuals for the Hall of Fame. Even though I have been to the Hall of Fame I was unaware of the various categories or requirements for nominations. There are 8 separate categories:

Official
Player
International Player
Veteran Player
Coach
Veteran Coach
Contributor
Team/League Trailblazer

Most of these categories have some specific requirements, but the category of Contributor is intentionally vague.

"In order to be considered in the contributor category, the nominee must have significantly impacted the game of women's basketball. **Assistant coaches may be considered."

I don't know when the ** comment was added, but I suspect it was added rather recently, because neither DeMoss nor Dailey would qualify under the Coach category, which is limited to head coaches. From my standpoint the category of contributor is appropriate for someone like Mel Greenberg for his decades of coverage of Women's Basketball. It would be appropriate for a WNBA commissioner or an administrator. If the Hall of Fame more clearly distinguished between the catgories throughout the voting process I might not have as much problem, but this seems like an end run on the rules. I am interested if anyone could shed any light on this for me,


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PostPosted: 01/12/18 7:16 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Went to the Internet Wayback Machine. The ** about assistants was there in November of 2016 but missing in June of 2016 There no crawls of the page between those two.



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PostPosted: 01/12/18 10:40 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
Went to the Internet Wayback Machine. The ** about assistants was there in November of 2016 but missing in June of 2016 There no crawls of the page between those two.


Thanks for that.


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PostPosted: 01/12/18 10:57 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Good detective work pilight!



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PostPosted: 01/12/18 11:49 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
Went to the Internet Wayback Machine. The ** about assistants was there in November of 2016 but missing in June of 2016 There no crawls of the page between those two.


Hmmmmm sounds like this was already pre planned...I see both sides...and these are the only two assistants id even look at without laughing out the door (Warlick was put in as a player)

There is some precident...Naismith put in Tex Winter mostly for his work with the Bulls as the creator of the triangle as phil's assistant/consultant...but he did have a career with K State before then.

I certainly dont disagree with those scoffing at the idea of assistants getting in...I only put them in in a ballot of 6 in my personal ballot of 3, they are not in.

I basically more said they will likely get in even if this is controversial.

Dailey has been getting a lot of push from geno the last few years...DeMoss does have her sparking what became a very powerful program (Until very recently) in kentucky and also got that fanbase activated and booked marquee games at rupp.

It seems this note and its timing says this has been planned and planned for a while...and Again...Selvig and many others on this list (I thought Bruno DID get in...lol oops yes he belongs...) Belong over assistants (and then dont start on Ceal Barry)

But yes halls of fame are for the best players and leaders...assistants by definition are not the leaders...they are the assistants.

Change my mind...too many good head coaches not in to consider assistants, even if they are the 2 best ever.



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PostPosted: 01/13/18 12:40 am    ::: Re: WBHOF finalists Reply Reply with quote

CamrnCrz1974 wrote:
Happycappie25 wrote:
Chamique Holdsclaw: Do you forgive? Numbers are numbers and she HAS the numbers. I get the mental illness, I do not belittle Mental Illness, as someone who needed the couch. I do not belittle mental illness. But there are some things that she has done that...give pause...Serious pause.

From a basketball standpoint do you forgive the way she walked off the Sparks.

From a human life standpoint do you forgive her for using a 9MM pistol as a lighter.

I do at a point. That point is once Catchings is eligible and voted in...not on this class. Me: Eventually Reality: Eventually (but likely more next year)


Let me introduce you to Lawrence Taylor, former NFL player and first-ballot Hall of Fame inductee.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_Taylor#Drugs,_alcohol,_and_personal_problems


I'll bite...I'm from New York...I can tell you a billion and one things good bad and ugly about LT...but his numbers from UNC to retirement were above and beyond reproach...he changed the game...Read the blind side instead of watching the film and you'll know he changed the game in ways that had nothing to do with his own position.

And LaDalian was a Hall of Famer in his own Right...but there is but ONE LT

Hundreds of men HS to Canton who wear 56 but only ONE true #56

But lets look about 15 miles to the east...across the george and whitestone bridges to a place called Shea Stadium...where we see the opposite arguement...full stop about off the field problems...not once but twice...Dwight Gooden was putting up numbers that was making Sandy Koufax's jaw hit the floor...Before bonds and the Juice, darryl strawberry was one of the most complete sluggers Baseball had ever seen...off field issues destroyed their careers, earning redemption only late in their careers with the Yankees mostly to cement the budding Yankee dynasty as NY's team by siphoning off nostalgic met fans...there were flashes most notibly Doc's excellent No hitter. but they were seen and are still seen as Squander and no where near the hall.

Now let's see the in between...Holdsclaw.

Her tennessee career was beyond a shadow of a doubt...up there with LT...indeed you can say she was that dominant.

But her W career...very good, excellent...but you can put it closer to the gooden straw category than you do LT

Her Mystics career was her peak, and that was frought with coaching clashes, Pat having to run into the front office briefly, and marginal team success the best being a conference final run where they won game 1 mostly off the old 1-2 format before being put in their place by the Black Era Libs.

Her teams weren't great but the college claw could have gotten something. Claw 23...Doc and Darryl the mets...no doubting that...this is 85% of her case...Claw 1...now...it gets...dicey.

Post number change...yes that was a thing...certainly post death of her Grandmother, as documented...the mental illness took hold...and for the most part...it was like Doc and Straw the yankees, A big game here...a playoff run there...but then everything that happened with the Sparks...and shell of herself runs later on in Atlanta and SA

Not even getting into the gun incident and YES this IS a huge reason I keep her off the first ballot when you have stronger resumes above her namely Thompson, who became the keystone everyone Thought Claw was going to be.

Remember, the mystics built their first roster as a throwaway just to turn it all around on the finger of the claw...and it WORKED for the first 4-5 years...she indeed WAS...THAT...GOOD

Numbers how much do you weigh college vs pro...if you weigh college > Pro this is a non starter, she's in with bells on

but you mitigate it with the...choppy...inconsistent and off court issue plagued W career...

It's closer than you think...she is NO LT...LT was dominent despite his many...MANY...flaws...in a way not seen since MAYBE Babe Ruth.

I still say she's in...in a 6 person ballot I vote for her.

In a 5...well we circle back to the assistant coach debate that is the other hot take on this thread

But I picked 3...and I stand by them

But I do think she gets in...and given what she has overcome, I will applaud...but I do think today...on this ballot...She doesn't get my vote this year but likely would in a weaker class.

She certainly was in a class by herself...good...bad...and ugly.



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tfan



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PostPosted: 01/13/18 1:50 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I'm also not in favor of putting in assistant coaches. I like the quote during the ESPN halftime show: "Chris Daily, best known for holding back Geno". We have no idea what they do in practice or otherwise, or how much credit to give them for any team success (although they potentially could make important contributions).


Nerd2



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PostPosted: 01/13/18 5:14 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:
I'm also not in favor of putting in assistant coaches. I like the quote during the ESPN halftime show: "Chris Daily, best known for holding back Geno". We have no idea what they do in practice or otherwise, or how much credit to give them for any team success (although they potentially could make important contributions).


We might not know but it's somewhat probable basketball insiders do.


Nerd2



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PostPosted: 01/13/18 5:19 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

As for Holdsclaw, even if she gets dinged for the issues while a pro, her importance in college will push her in.


calbearman76



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PostPosted: 01/13/18 12:59 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Happycappie25 wrote:
pilight wrote:
Went to the Internet Wayback Machine. The ** about assistants was there in November of 2016 but missing in June of 2016 There no crawls of the page between those two.


Hmmmmm sounds like this was already pre planned...I see both sides...and these are the only two assistants id even look at without laughing out the door (Warlick was put in as a player) ...


But yes halls of fame are for the best players and leaders...assistants by definition are not the leaders...they are the assistants.

Change my mind...too many good head coaches not in to consider assistants, even if they are the 2 best ever.


Actually there is another, Amy Tucker of Stanford.


tfan



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PostPosted: 01/13/18 2:48 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Nerd2 wrote:
tfan wrote:
I'm also not in favor of putting in assistant coaches. I like the quote during the ESPN halftime show: "Chris Daily, best known for holding back Geno". We have no idea what they do in practice or otherwise, or how much credit to give them for any team success (although they potentially could make important contributions).


We might not know but it's somewhat probable basketball insiders do.


Well, hopefully, those insiders were sitting in on many UConn practices (or spoke with someone who did), and not relying on a few comments from biased UConn players/ coaches that got passed around.

Daily is listed as the recruiting coordinator. You will see the assistant coach with that title credited for good recruits a school gets in their roster bio. So Daily could get credit for all the great recruits UConn has had over the years. But I wonder how much a recruit is influenced by the recruiting coordinator versus the school's past record and the head coach.


GlennMacGrady



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PostPosted: 01/13/18 6:02 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

If any assistant coach is justified in being elected to the WBHOF, Chris Dailey is a megaparsec ahead of anyone else. More than 1000 wins. 11 NCAA national championships. Recruiting coordinator for every All-American and Olympian who ever attended UConn.

In addition, Dailey was a two-year team captain and starter on the Rutgers squad that won the 1982 NAIA National Championship in the Cathedral of College Basketball. During Dailey's four years, the Lady Knights were 108-23.

pilight



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PostPosted: 02/12/18 8:39 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

http://www.espn.com/wnba/story/_/id/22412279/tina-thompson-katie-smith-chamique-holdsclaw-highlight-women-basketball-hall-fame-2018-class

Quote:
Three Olympians who played important roles in the establishing years of the WNBA -- Tina Thompson, Katie Smith, and Chamique Holdsclaw -- and two iconic assistant coaches -- UConn's Chris Dailey and Tennessee's Mickie DeMoss -- highlight the 2018 class of the Women's Basketball Hall of Fame.

Seven honorees were announced Monday and will be enshrined June 9, 2018, at the Hall of Fame in Knoxville, Tennessee. The other two are former Colorado coach Ceal Barry, and longtime high school and junior college coach Rose Marie Battaglia.



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Genero36



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PostPosted: 02/12/18 8:43 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
http://www.espn.com/wnba/story/_/id/22412279/tina-thompson-katie-smith-chamique-holdsclaw-highlight-women-basketball-hall-fame-2018-class

Quote:
Three Olympians who played important roles in the establishing years of the WNBA -- Tina Thompson, Katie Smith, and Chamique Holdsclaw -- and two iconic assistant coaches -- UConn's Chris Dailey and Tennessee's Mickie DeMoss -- highlight the 2018 class of the Women's Basketball Hall of Fame.

Seven honorees were announced Monday and will be enshrined June 9, 2018, at the Hall of Fame in Knoxville, Tennessee. The other two are former Colorado coach Ceal Barry, and longtime high school and junior college coach Rose Marie Battaglia.


Congratulations to the class of 2018.



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Queenie



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PostPosted: 02/12/18 8:54 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Elena or GTFO.



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PUmatty



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PostPosted: 02/12/18 9:03 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I still think Barry is a strange and wholly undeserving choice.


HistoryWomensBasketball



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PostPosted: 02/17/18 8:17 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Really looking forward to this.

Have been asked by the WBHOF to have a book signing of Barnstorming America, Stories from the Pioneers of Women's Basketball the day of the induction.

The Inductees will be signing and we will be right near them. Barnstormers from all over the country who are in the book are already planning on attending.



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CamrnCrz1974



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PostPosted: 02/20/18 4:28 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

PUmatty wrote:
I still think Barry is a strange and wholly undeserving choice.


I agree.


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